Critical Care with anesthesia background

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

Hello, I'm a new CA-2 and am planning on doing an ICU fellowship! What are the job prospects for doing 100% ICU coming from an anesthesia background? I know that it's covered mostly by medicine/pulm crit. Can I find a decent job? Don't mind academics vs private or community. Thanks!

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[Blackdogue]

Hello, I'm a new CA-2 and am planning on doing an ICU fellowship! What are the job prospects for doing 100% ICU coming from an anesthesia background? I know that it's covered mostly by medicine/pulm crit. Can I find a decent job? Don't mind academics vs private or community. Thanks!

Is your username Greek?

 

[CCM-MD]

Hello, I'm a new CA-2 and am planning on doing an ICU fellowship! What are the job prospects for doing 100% ICU coming from an anesthesia background? I know that it's covered mostly by medicine/pulm crit. Can I find a decent job? Don't mind academics vs private or community. Thanks!

Finding a job will be easy if you want to do full time CCM. One of my "partners" is anesthesiology+CCM.

It will be challenging if you want to practice both anesthesia and CCM simultaneously.

 

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

Is your username Greek?

Lol yes it is I think. It means "We watch closely those who sleep". I got it from this link. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF03037042.pdf

Finding a job will be easy if you want to do full time CCM. One of my "partners" is anesthesiology+CCM.

It will be challenging if you want to practice both anesthesia and CCM simultaneously.

That's good to hear. What is the going rate nowdays? I understand jobs may vary, but what is yours like? I understand a lot of people say burnout is an issues (i'm sure it is) so finding a combo job is ideal. But honestly, I don't enjoy anesthesia as much as medicine. Probably should have thought that through before doing anesthesia residency lol. But either way, I'll be happy to do locums anesthesia in the future if getting too burned out.

 

[CCM-MD]

Lol yes it is I think. It means "We watch closely those who sleep". I got it from this link. https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/BF03037042.pdf



That's good to hear. What is the going rate nowdays? I understand jobs may vary, but what is yours like? I understand a lot of people say burnout is an issues (i'm sure it is) so finding a combo job is ideal. But honestly, I don't enjoy anesthesia as much as medicine. Probably should have thought that through before doing anesthesia residency lol. But either way, I'll be happy to do locums anesthesia in the future if getting too burned out.

MGMA & AMGA medians are ~400k for CCM. Will be lower in academia and will vary based on geographic area (more $ in less desirable areas).

Will also vary based on the set up - mon-fri? shift work? days only? in house nights vs home call? number of nights? number of patients to be seen? PA/NP support? acuity of the ICU? open vs open with mandatory consult vs closed ICU?

If you want more $, stick to OR work.

 

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

So I was speaking with a mentor about jobs. He said to strongly consider doing a CT fellowship on top of my CCM. I really don't have the passion for CT anesthesia and definitely don't wanna suffer another year. But since it's been brought up so many times, does CT/CCM really open up the market that much? My goals are either academic or private practice/community mixed med/surg ICU or some combination of the two. I feel like I'd be totally happy not doing anesthesia in the future.

 

[deleted547339]

So I was speaking with a mentor about jobs. He said to strongly consider doing a CT fellowship on top of my CCM. I really don't have the passion for CT anesthesia and definitely don't wanna suffer another year. But since it's been brought up so many times, does CT/CCM really open up the market that much? My goals are either academic or private practice mixed med/surg ICU or some combination of the two.

then you shouldn’t do ct. CT and CCM is so you can run an academic cticu. Ccm is sufficient to run a community med/surg ICU.

 

[CCM-MD]

So I was speaking with a mentor about jobs. He said to strongly consider doing a CT fellowship on top of my CCM. I really don't have the passion for CT anesthesia and definitely don't wanna suffer another year. But since it's been brought up so many times, does CT/CCM really open up the market that much? My goals are either academic or private practice mixed med/surg ICU or some combination of the two.

Do the CT anesthesia fellowship if you want to practice CT anesthesia. Don't see a point if you want to do full time CCM.

 

[deleted171991]

So I was speaking with a mentor about jobs. He said to strongly consider doing a CT fellowship on top of my CCM. I really don't have the passion for CT anesthesia and definitely don't wanna suffer another year. But since it's been brought up so many times, does CT/CCM really open up the market that much? My goals are either academic or private practice/community mixed med/surg ICU or some combination of the two. I feel like I'd be totally happy not doing anesthesia in the future.

You may have difficulty finding an academic ICU job if you don't have a CT fellowship, too. The reason being that many cardiac surgeons refuse to let their patients be cared for by non-dual-trained intensivists, unless you come from a CCM fellowship which is a lot about cardiac critical care (Columbia, Duke). Which automatically means that the fellow misses out on other stuff (e.g. MICU).

The CTICU being one of the big moneymakers for hospitals (because cardiac surgery is), CTICU coverage is incentivized and important for the anesthesiology departments. If you can't cover the CTICU, you may not get hired for a combined academic job (I've been refused multiple times by my own residency program, though they are always happy to offer me an anesthesia-only position).

There is also a 10-15 year-older generation who got to do combined CT-CCM fellowships in only 18 months, who you're competing with for academic ICU jobs.

Plus cardiac surgeons are among the biggest PITAs in the surgical ICU world. The ego seems to be inversely proportional to the knowledge (Dunning-Kruger). It usually helps to have the cardiac anesthesiology training to shut them the F up.

Hence my usual contention that doing a CCM fellowship after anesthesia (especially without cardiac) should be reserved only for the most passionate.

 

[McPoyle]

You may have difficulty finding an academic ICU job if you don't have a CT fellowship, too. The reason being that many cardiac surgeons refuse to let their patients be cared for by non-dual-trained intensivists, unless you come from a CCM fellowship which is a lot about cardiac critical care (Columbia, Duke). Which automatically means that the fellow misses out on other stuff (e.g. MICU).

The CTICU being one of the big moneymakers for hospitals (because cardiac surgery is), CTICU coverage is incentivized and important for the anesthesiology departments. If you can't cover the CTICU, you may not get hired for a combined academic job (I've been refused multiple times by my own residency program, though they are always happy to offer me an anesthesia-only position).

There is also a 10-15 year-older generation who got to do combined CT-CCM fellowships in only 18 months, who you're competing with for academic ICU jobs.

Plus cardiac surgeons are among the biggest PITAs in the surgical ICU world. The ego seems to be inversely proportional to the knowledge (Dunning-Kruger). It usually helps to have the cardiac anesthesiology training to shut them the F up.

Hence my usual contention that doing a CCM fellowship after anesthesia (especially without cardiac) should be reserved only for the most passionate.

Only do CT if you want to be in the cardiac OR. There are plenty of academic jobs that do. It require you to be dual trained, not one of my cofellows, coresidents, partners, or friends has had any issue finding a job despite not doing cardiac. Some may have different experiences, and sure at some individual places you might run into this but those seem to still be the exception rather than the rule. Plus there are more and more non-academic jobs out there for you to consider.

You’ll be fine. Do CT, don’t do CT, outside of some unique places it really won’t matter.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[Katheudontas parateroumen]

Thank you for the advice everyone. I think I will just do the CCM only for now. I believe it will still give me the avenues I'm looking for.

 

[deleted547339]

Thank you for the advice everyone. I think I will just do the CCM only for now. I believe it will still give me the avenues I'm looking for.

Don’t get me wrong - I think that’s the right decision, but as a general rule you shouldn’t take life advice from an online forum without discussing it with mentors and other people in your life.

 

[deleted547339]

You may have difficulty finding an academic ICU job if you don't have a CT fellowship, too. The reason being that many cardiac surgeons refuse to let their patients be cared for by non-dual-trained intensivists, unless you come from a CCM fellowship which is a lot about cardiac critical care (Columbia, Duke). Which automatically means that the fellow misses out on other stuff (e.g. MICU).

The CTICU being one of the big moneymakers for hospitals (because cardiac surgery is), CTICU coverage is incentivized and important for the anesthesiology departments. If you can't cover the CTICU, you may not get hired for a combined academic job (I've been refused multiple times by my own residency program, though they are always happy to offer me an anesthesia-only position).

There is also a 10-15 year-older generation who got to do combined CT-CCM fellowships in only 18 months, who you're competing with for academic ICU jobs.

Plus cardiac surgeons are among the biggest PITAs in the surgical ICU world. The ego seems to be inversely proportional to the knowledge (Dunning-Kruger). It usually helps to have the cardiac anesthesiology training to shut them the F up.

Hence my usual contention that doing a CCM fellowship after anesthesia (especially without cardiac) should be reserved only for the most passionate.

Yea - I would take a job in a CTICU in a heartbeat if they didn’t allow the CT surgeons badge access.

 

[propofolgtt]

ACCM fellow here, but a newbie to SDN. Where do people go to search for CC jobs outside of academia (aside from networking)?

 

[psychbender]

ACCM fellow here, but a newbie to SDN. Where do people go to search for CC jobs outside of academia (aside from networking)?

I get a lot of emails and texts from recruiters, and perused PracticeLink in the past. When I was a fellow, some practices sent emails that my PD forwarded on.