CRNA Group hiring MD/DO’s

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Based on all of this, should I tell my friend to pursue becoming CRNA instead of the MD/DO, seems like all the perks with very minimal liability?

Why would anyone pursue becoming a physician nowadays?
 
The kitchen sink said:
Based on all of this, should I tell my friend to pursue becoming CRNA instead of the MD/DO, seems like all the perks with very minimal liability?

Why would anyone pursue becoming a physician nowadays?
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If someone knew they wanted anesthesia and nothing else, it isn’t a bad path.

The best path would be to get a degree in something cool like astronomy or music, then do one of those nursing master degrees that take something like 3 semesters, then work in ICU 1 yr, then on to CRNA school.
 
The kitchen sink said:
Based on all of this, should I tell my friend to pursue becoming CRNA instead of the MD/DO, seems like all the perks with very minimal liability?

Why would anyone pursue becoming a physician nowadays?
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Someone would pursue becoming a physician nowadays for one of 2 reasons: profound re_tardation or extreme masochism. CRNA all the way - done when you are 25-26, much less debt, minimal liability, $300k starting salary.
 
Anesthesia_Dude said:
Someone would pursue becoming a physician nowadays for one of 2 reasons: profound re_tardation or extreme masochism. CRNA all the way - done when you are 25-26, much less debt, minimal liability, $300k starting salary.
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For perspective... are you a CRNA or a resentful anesthesiologist?
 
The kitchen sink said:
Besides a select few specialties, are you saying don’t go into anesthesia?
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Not at all. But some folks may prefer psych or ortho or peds. A lot of people change their mind in medical school. One of my residency friends actually switched to psych after his CA-1 year because he didn’t want to spend the majority of his life in a cold windowless room. Another friend from med school switched from anesthesia to IM after internship because she loves clothes and wanted to wear nice clothes at work.

My point is CRNA school doesn’t leave you many options besides anesthesia.
 
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The kitchen sink said:
Besides a select few specialties, are you saying don’t go into anesthesia?
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As Nimbus stated, you will find your passion once you are in medical school. I thought I wanted to be a surgeon, specifically ortho. But during my rotations I realized how much I loved anesthesia compared to the other fields. There are just a lot more career options for you if you go to medical school and realize that you like something more than anesthesia.
 
The kitchen sink said:
For a good ROI, PP cash only psych, hospital or PP ortho may be worth it

Peds… may not be.
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Folks always seem to throw in the “PP psych” as a potentially better alternative. I guarantee you that on average, those folks make much less than gas does, with the exception of those at the top. Most importantly, it’s tough to establish a top PP practice- getting good referrals is no guarantee. It takes a while to get there, with no guarantee. Whereas in anesthesia, you show up and do the work on your plate. You take the good with the bad, which is the case in all specialties. Don’t get me wrong- m-f 9-5 is the dream… but careful of the ‘grass is greener’ mentality…
 
Lecithin5 said:
Folks always seem to throw in the “PP psych” as a potentially better alternative. I guarantee you that on average, those folks make much less than gas does, with the exception of those at the top. Most importantly, it’s tough to establish a top PP practice- getting good referrals is no guarantee. It takes a while to get there, with no guarantee. Whereas in anesthesia, you show up and do the work on your plate. You take the good with the bad, which is the case in all specialties. Don’t get me wrong- m-f 9-5 is the dream… but careful of the ‘grass is greener’ mentality…
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Yes. Anesthesia for the most part requires zero effort. No writing notes, no maintaining relationships with patients, getting good referrals ect. If there is an easier way to make money I haven’t found it….
 
Dr. Anonymouss said:
For perspective... are you a CRNA or a resentful anesthesiologist?
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A very, very resentful anesthesiologist. Doesn't change the fact that CRNA is the better route. Review the objective data without my subjective interpretation. Use that big brain God gave you and you'll see why I am right.
 
Lecithin5 said:
Folks always seem to throw in the “PP psych” as a potentially better alternative. I guarantee you that on average, those folks make much less than gas does, with the exception of those at the top. Most importantly, it’s tough to establish a top PP practice- getting good referrals is no guarantee. It takes a while to get there, with no guarantee. Whereas in anesthesia, you show up and do the work on your plate. You take the good with the bad, which is the case in all specialties. Don’t get me wrong- m-f 9-5 is the dream… but careful of the ‘grass is greener’ mentality…
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Totally agree. It's like the old "i-banking" trope many here think they could have done and become the next Gordon Gekko.
 
Lecithin5 said:
Folks always seem to throw in the “PP psych” as a potentially better alternative. I guarantee you that on average, those folks make much less than gas does, with the exception of those at the top. Most importantly, it’s tough to establish a top PP practice- getting good referrals is no guarantee. It takes a while to get there, with no guarantee. Whereas in anesthesia, you show up and do the work on your plate. You take the good with the bad, which is the case in all specialties. Don’t get me wrong- m-f 9-5 is the dream… but careful of the ‘grass is greener’ mentality…
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That’s a fair point.

Psych MD/DO’s can charge $500/hr cash only, set their own appointment schedules, but I agree may need to cater to higher clientele or do telehealth, but at the end of the day, no call, no nights, no insurance headaches, etc and relatively stress free lifestyle.

We are just making comparisons based on the small anecdotal subsets of info we have, to help us give and make the right decisions for the future.
 
Anesthesia_Dude said:
A very, very resentful anesthesiologist. Doesn't change the fact that CRNA is the better route. Review the objective data without my subjective interpretation. Use that big brain God gave you and you'll see why I am right.
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May I ask what the resentment is about specifically?
 
Anesthesia_Dude said:
Someone would pursue becoming a physician nowadays for one of 2 reasons: profound re_tardation or extreme masochism. CRNA all the way - done when you are 25-26, much less debt, minimal liability, $300k starting salary.
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Eh. You can make double that as a physician anesthesiologist..so I'd rather work a few more years to get double the salary.

Also, I prefer to make my own decisions, and the prestige that comes with being a physician.

That being said, crna is a great career. It just depends on what your preferences are. I would choose being an anesthesiologist if I had to do it all over again.
 
UscGhost said:
Eh. You can make double that as a physician anesthesiologist..so I'd rather work a few more years to get double the salary.

Also, I prefer to make my own decisions, and the prestige that comes with being a physician.

That being said, crna is a great career. It just depends on what your preferences are. I would choose being an anesthesiologist if I had to do it all over again.
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That's great! I'm glad you're happy with your decision.
 
Anesthesia_Dude said:
Medicine in general; anesthesiology specifically.
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I think the problem many docs have is that they try to find happiness from their career or work. No. Wrong approach.

Work is there for livelihood. Best to keep it professional, do your job and exit. No drama. No need to get too involved…CRNAs upset you - sure. Join an MD only practice. Don’t like call, fine - locums or day only positions. Like residents - academics. Don’t like residents- pp community or ASC.

There are so many choices out there.

It is what it is.

Problem is when people get too greedy and don’t want to make a change or feel that they’re tied to a job.

I’ve taken a paycut to take a job with better schedule and environment. Other things make me happy - food, my kids, travel, etc. Even though Anesthesia is my passion and I can’t think of doing anything else, I still treat it like a way to earn a living. That’s it. Nothing more nothing less.
 
Ashers said:
Some hospitals require them. In the job I posted, I know Banner University requires "supervision" of CRNAs. The CRNAs don't think they need to be supervised though from my friends who worked there. I know working at the place in the thread about patient safety and the patient being coded after CRNA care, the surgeons didn't know they techincally were supervising "independent" CRNAs. I knew that a year ago, and I tried to point it out to the AZ Society. I was told there's nothing they can do since the surgeons were supervising even if they didn't know it.
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Banner University in Phoenix actually requires Medical Direction and not just Supervision. I've heard stories about the CRNAs who work there especially about them thinking they can don't need any Anesthesiologists around.
 
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neutro said:
I think the problem many docs have is that they try to find happiness from their career or work. No. Wrong approach.

Work is there for livelihood. Best to keep it professional, do your job and exit. No drama. No need to get too involved…CRNAs upset you - sure. Join an MD only practice. Don’t like call, fine - locums or day only positions. Like residents - academics. Don’t like residents- pp community or ASC.

There are so many choices out there.

It is what it is.

Problem is when people get too greedy and don’t want to make a change or feel that they’re tied to a job.

I’ve taken a paycut to take a job with better schedule and environment. Other things make me happy - food, my kids, travel, etc. Even though Anesthesia is my passion and I can’t think of doing anything else, I still treat it like a way to earn a living. That’s it. Nothing more nothing less.
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This is the absolute truth when it comes down to it. Money makes people tolerate more BS than they would ever be willing to do so, as I'm guilty of it as well. It's hard to leave a comfortable position for an unknown, even if it might be the better decision... Although we spend a great deal of our waking hours working so it would be great to be able to spend the days happily instead of making it a chore or counting the clock...
 
anes12 said:
Banner University in Phoenix actually requires Medical Direction and not just Supervision. I've heard stories about the CRNAs who work there especially about them thinking they can don't need any Anesthesiologists around.
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Fair. My friend who worked there kept saying supervision when I asked if it was medical direction because she asked if I wanted to work there. She said the crnas would go back and start cases without her despite her saying don't do that.
 
Ashers said:
Fair. My friend who worked there kept saying supervision when I asked if it was medical direction because she asked if I wanted to work there. She said the crnas would go back and start cases without her despite her saying don't do that.
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Yes, have heard the same thing and more. Do not understand why CRNAs take jobs there if they do not want to work in a Medical Direction model. There are plenty of jobs at other hospitals and ASCs in the greater Phoenix area that allow CRNAs to practice autonomous and independently.
 
The AzAS group there wants to do supervision since that’s what they do at every other site in the state lol, but I think they only cover IR/EP now. The Sound and Envision CRNAs seem to comprehend medical direction.
 
CubsDynasty said:
The AzAS group there wants to do supervision since that’s what they do at every other site in the state lol, but I think they only cover IR/EP now. The Sound and Envision CRNAs seem to comprehend medical direction.
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Not sure what you are talking about and your post is false. There are no Envision/Valley CRNAs at Banner Phoenix and Envision/Valley only has MDs there.
 
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neutro said:
I think the problem many docs have is that they try to find happiness from their career or work. No. Wrong approach.

Work is there for livelihood. Best to keep it professional, do your job and exit. No drama. No need to get too involved…CRNAs upset you - sure. Join an MD only practice. Don’t like call, fine - locums or day only positions. Like residents - academics. Don’t like residents- pp community or ASC.

There are so many choices out there.

It is what it is.

Problem is when people get too greedy and don’t want to make a change or feel that they’re tied to a job.

I’ve taken a paycut to take a job with better schedule and environment. Other things make me happy - food, my kids, travel, etc. Even though Anesthesia is my passion and I can’t think of doing anything else, I still treat it like a way to earn a living. That’s it. Nothing more nothing less.
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As I have grown older, I have found that this right here is the key to happinness. We all have options. Every single doctor on this forum has options, yet many whine and complain incessantly. There are so many options out there it is unbelievable.

The job is the job.
Don't like it? Quit.
Stil llike it? Stay on.

Always be looking to know what is out there, but know that the grass isn't always greener, but just a different shade.

There are things you can control and things you can't.

We did not create this current healthcare system. I sure as hell am not going to sacrifice my well being to fix it. We're only on this earth for so long and time spent with my husband, kids, friends, and family is infinitely more improtant than bitchinng about CRNAs vs MBAs cutting my checks.
 
Zekchar said:
As I have grown older, I have found that this right here is the key to happinness. We all have options. Every single doctor on this forum has options, yet many whine and complain incessantly. There are so many options out there it is unbelievable.

The job is the job.
Don't like it? Quit.
Stil llike it? Stay on.

Always be looking to know what is out there, but know that the grass isn't always greener, but just a different shade.

There are things you can control and things you can't.

We did not create this current healthcare system. I sure as hell am not going to sacrifice my well being to fix it. We're only on this earth for so long and time spent with my husband, kids, friends, and family is infinitely more improtant than bitchinng about CRNAs vs MBAs cutting my checks.
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1676209460372.png
 
CubsDynasty said:
My mistake. I thought they had CRNAs on OB there under medical direction. Are you saying that is false?
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Envision/Valley are MDs. Sound and Arizona Anesthesia Solutions have CRNAs at Banner Phoenix under medical direction.
 
chocomorsel said:
That sounds like crap. Where is the real vacation? Don’t give me the crap about 26 weeks off either.
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I get 5 weeks/year right now and it takes an act of congress to get more than two consecutive weeks anyway, so this seems nicer to me. And before you ask, yes, I'm in academics
 
The kitchen sink said:
For a good ROI, PP cash only psych, hospital or PP ortho may be worth it

Peds… may not be.
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These days non cash psychiatrists are making good money. I find it disingenuous to go cash only in a field where the ones who need it most are poor and on Medicare. Like who are you truly helping? Well managed rich people only?
 
Anesthesia_Dude said:
I'm sure this isn't the first (or last) time you'll hear this: you guessed wrong.
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I literally tell nurses if they can stomach what they are doing and are making 150-200k traveling or in California to ride that wave. Ride it till it throws you off. ROI for medicine w inflation the way it may not be worth it.
I always stress ROI. Cost versus benefit. Money lost in the journey.
I am with you buddy.
 
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