CRNA liability

[Pharmado]

At my lovely rural hospital, the surgeons have been told that if they are supervising they aren't really accepting more liability, because no surgeon has been sued due to an anesthesia complication. This seems questionable to me as the CRNAs are working under the surgeons license here in Indiana (not an opt out state). I’m sure this is state specific, but is anyone aware of any specific examples of surgeons being sued for anesthesia complications while overseeing CRNAs? The surgeons take the attitude that they have nothing to do with the anesthesia because they’ve been convinced by administration that there is no risk to them, which seems like an overly optimistic view.

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[deleted126335]

Recommend move to the private forum.

 

[PieOHmy]

At my lovely rural hospital, the surgeons have been told that if they are supervising they aren't really accepting more liability, because no surgeon has been sued due to an anesthesia complication. This seems questionable to me as the CRNAs are working under the surgeons license here in Indiana (not an opt out state). I’m sure this is state specific, but is anyone aware of any specific examples of surgeons being sued for anesthesia complications while overseeing CRNAs? The surgeons take the attitude that they have nothing to do with the anesthesia because they’ve been convinced by administration that there is no risk to them, which seems like an overly optimistic view.

LOL

You answered your own question.
Frankly, who cares what the surgeons in Indiana are doing.
At some point they will find out.
But the fact of the matter is, none of us will be liable..
And thats all that matters at this point

 

[Noyac]

What is the malpractice limits these nurses carry?

For example, my malpractice is $1mil/3mil.

 

[Pharmado]

I’m not sure what the malpractice limits are. I believe mine are 1M/3M, and I’m assuming there’s is too, but I’m not sure.

 

[Pharmado]

I simply think the surgeons shouldn’t be drinking the kool aid that admin is feeding them and assume that they hold no liability.

 

[psychbender]

I seem to recall a case of an ophthalmologist being successfully sued for the CRNA losing the airway. I think that was also the case where the CRNA refused to admit he tubed the esophagus, and shoved EMS out of the way when they tried to (succeeded) secure the airway.

As the deepest pockets, they will always be named, and the plaintiff's lawyers will go after them hard, using the motion that the surgeon is the captain of the ship. They may get dropped, but it'll take a lot of time and money.

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[spike7585]

I seem to recall a case of an ophthalmologist being successfully sued for the CRNA losing the airway. I think that was also the case where the CRNA refused to admit he tubed the esophagus, and shoved EMS out of the way when they tried to (succeeded) secure the airway.

As the deepest pockets, they will always be named, and the plaintiff's lawyers will go after them hard, using the motion that the surgeon is the captain of the ship. They may get dropped, but it'll take a lot of time and money.

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Co-Defendant CRNA Denies Responsibility for Failed Resuscitation – OMIC

Guessing it's this one?

 

[psychbender]

Co-Defendant CRNA Denies Responsibility for Failed Resuscitation – OMIC

Guessing it's this one?

Indeed.

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[Pharmado]

I know this seems wrong, but more of these cases would aid in a shift away from CRNA only practices and back towards models with an anesthesiologist involved in every pts care.

 

[Mikkel]

Indeed.

Surgeon was found to be liable for using an inferior anesthesia practitioner (CRNA) instead of the superior anesthesia practitioner (physician).

 

[Mikkel]

I know this seems wrong, but more of these cases would aid in a shift away from CRNA only practices and back towards models with an anesthesiologist involved in every pts care.

All you need is one major public case to send chills up the surgeon's spine.

I think it's malpractice for surgeons to subject patients to the risk of inferior anesthesia practitioners (solo CRNAs).

 

[caligas]

Here’s one

Iowa State Jury Awards Widow And Son $ 10,000,000 In Medical Malpractice/Wrongful Death Suit Following Death Of Surgical Patient From Aspiration During Anesthesia

In October of 2014, Richard J. Pellock was diagnosed with non-metastatic bladder cancer by Dr. Alex Horchak. On Jan. 5, 2015, Richard was admitted to UnityPoint

www.lexisnexis.com

 

[Mikkel]

Here’s one

Iowa State Jury Awards Widow And Son $ 10,000,000 In Medical Malpractice/Wrongful Death Suit Following Death Of Surgical Patient From Aspiration During Anesthesia

In October of 2014, Richard J. Pellock was diagnosed with non-metastatic bladder cancer by Dr. Alex Horchak. On Jan. 5, 2015, Richard was admitted to UnityPoint

www.lexisnexis.com

Prop, sux, no tube.

 

[deleted162650]

Here’s one

Iowa State Jury Awards Widow And Son $ 10,000,000 In Medical Malpractice/Wrongful Death Suit Following Death Of Surgical Patient From Aspiration During Anesthesia

In October of 2014, Richard J. Pellock was diagnosed with non-metastatic bladder cancer by Dr. Alex Horchak. On Jan. 5, 2015, Richard was admitted to UnityPoint

www.lexisnexis.com

1.5mil in lost future earnings on an 80yo??

 

[deleted171991]

Those surgeons are stupid. Anytime a physician accepts to supervise another healthcare worker, in the eyes of the law, it's as if the physician was doing whatever the surrogate is.

It's not collaboration, because that happens between peers with similar levels of education. Hence they will be 100% liable for everything. It's as if we were supervising a surgical PA during an operation and expecting not to be liable.

 

[Pharmado]

It seems like this last posted case, the verdict was against the anesthesia company. I don’t see where the surgeon was held liable, though he/she was a part of the suit.

 

[PieOHmy]

Anytime a physician accepts to supervise another healthcare worker, in the eyes of the law, it's as if the physician was doing whatever the surrogate is.

It's not collaboration, because that happens between peers with similar levels of education. Hence they will be 100% liable for everything. It's as if we were supervising a surgical PA during an operation and expecting not to be liable.

IS that true?

 

[deleted171991]

"A physician may also be held vicariously liable for the acts of a PE on the grounds that the PE is acting as an agent of the physician. In some states, statutes create a conclusive presumption of agency so that a physician will always be responsible for the negligence of a PE. In other states, liability will depend on whether the physician has a right to control the work done by the PE.

However, given the typical requirements of supervision, it will be a rare circumstance when a PE will not be found to be an agent of the supervising physician."

Physician liability for the actions of midlevel providers

Will employing mid-level providers put physicians at risk?

www.medicaleconomics.com

 

[deleted697535]

Co-Defendant CRNA Denies Responsibility for Failed Resuscitation – OMIC

Guessing it's this one?

That's the most horrific thing I've ever read.

 

[AdmiralChz]

Co-Defendant CRNA Denies Responsibility for Failed Resuscitation – OMIC

Guessing it's this one?

Yikes. CRNA hadn’t intubated in 5 years. Shoved the paramedic. Refused to believe he/she didn’t intubate the esophagus. And the conclusions of the malpractice company is to assess competency of anesthesia folks? Umm...

 

[deleted697535]

And the conclusions of the malpractice company is to assess competency of anesthesia folks? Umm...

Good point, I hadn't noticed before.

"First, find out if there is a peer review process in place to review the competency of CRNAs and anesthesiologists"

What do crnas working under surgeons have to do with anesthesiologists at this centre? I would say absolutely nothing!

911 is a terrible back up option. This surgical centre should really be shut down and others like it if their back up is 911 and shoving crnas.
I wonder what the nurses propaganda machine says about this case? Anyone ever see their response?

 

[vector2]

It seems like this last posted case, the verdict was against the anesthesia company. I don’t see where the surgeon was held liable, though he/she was a part of the suit.

I don't understand the verdict there. It says the CRNA settled for 975 and the OMIC insured settled in later mediation for 800. The first sentence in the summary though says the ophtho was non-OMIC insured....

 

[deleted162650]

I don't understand the verdict there. It says the CRNA settled for 975 and the OMIC insured settled in later mediation for 800. The first sentence in the summary though says the ophtho was non-OMIC insured....

Patient originally saw an outside optho. Suffered a complication, and then came to see the insured optho.

 

[aneftp]

Recommend move to the private forum.

Agree. These forums should be locked down like the crnas lock their forums down.