croco is a trader!!!

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ejoseph

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Why, croco, are you taking the mcat? i thought you were going to be a dentist. what made you change your mind?
 
You always need a backup plan in case dental schools don't accept you. I say it is better to be prepared and know what to study in case that happens. I also believe you meant "traitor"
 
I just wanted to know if anyone else thinks I am a traitor to the Dental profession?
 
If dental schools dont accept you, med schools won't be welcoming you with open arms either. My guess is dentistry is you backup.
 
I actually have connections to a few medical schools in Texas.
 
Originally posted by croco
I actually have connections to a few medical schools in Texas.
Click to expand...

Well good for you! I just hope you dont take a seat away from a qualified applicant who had to work hard to get to where they want to be. Wait a minute...you probably will! :clap:
 
if you have the connections you say you do, then be a doctor if that's what makes you happy. don't make dentistry as your backup plan. that's all i'm saying. have a nice day, you go--amned traitor.
 
second to ejoseph.
leave some seats for really interested applicants.
besides, if u get a chance to go into med sch and dont
i bet you will regret it in 5 years.
 
Honestly Ecdo, I wish I could.
You just do not know if any medical schools will accept you these days with the competition that is out there. Unfortunately I will have to take a seat from a well-qualified applicant, but I do not believe that makes me a bad person. If medical schools were a little more open minded about allowing people who actually wanted to help people into their medical schools, then this kind of problem would not arise. Unfortunately we live in a time where a bunch of greedy individuals have decided that they want to become doctors not for the sensation of helping another, but rather for financial gain.
 
crocodile, i believe you meant "compEtition"
 
you are quick to correct your mistakes. bravo
 
now the only mistake you have to correct is to not apply to dental schools and save a spot for someone else who deserves it.
 
The sad thing is I will probably take more than one seat. I have applied to five schools, and with my GPA/DAT/interview skills I will probably be accepted to all of them. I just feel sorry for those five "poor" individuals. It looks like they will have to wait until next year.
 
**Post removed by Admin. User banned for violation of TOS.**
 
Can we get a moderator to remove this thread? 🙄

I don't know what's going on around here lately.😕

I hope neither of you are my classmates, let alone colleagues.
 
and by the way, you won't be hurting my chances b/c my top choice is MUSC, a school which you are not applying to. You just love making an ass of yourself.
 
Sorry Jaap,
I really don't understand why the thread even started. As if it is anybody elses business what I do in my life. Unfortunately dinguses like this joseph have nothing better to do in their lives.
 
jaap, who invited you? me and croco are discussing some things. be gone, and mind your own business.
 
croco, i'll leave you alone now. you are obviously going through a tough time. when you decide what it is that you want to do, you just let me know, okay? bye for now =)
 
Hey Fellas,

I am in Pharmacy School right now, and Pharmacy is my back-up plan if I dont get into Dental School. So, what croco is saying is simply keeping your options open won't hurt you.

Besides, if he applied to 5 schools, and lets say he got all accepted, that makes small difference to the Bigger picture of accepted students. Come-on guys, there is normally around 7000 applicants, about 4000 of them get accepted.... how croco is gonna make a difference. Schools always offer seats to more than they need.

Croco, good luck when you get to the residency part after you get your MD (if you get accepted of-course).

Mo
 
hi, u all people that thinks MD is too hard and switch to something else. Make up your mind. Use your brain to think things through, ok?

I was a pre-med too. I know how it feels. But I made my decision awhile ago only to apply to dental school. Does it mean that I have given up helping people? No, of cos not. I like to be a dentist cos I can have even closer patient interaction than a HMO controlled MD.

Think before you make this decision for the rest of ur life.
 
Hey croco,

I just wanted to comment on my personal experience with people I know who have applied to both Dental and MD schools at the same time.

Both of them were not accepted to Dental school and were accepted to medical school.

Their stats are much higher than yours are. That is not being said to disrespect you or cause another flame war. I am just stating the facts because I am sure someone will ask what their stats are.

They were in the very high 20's in every section of the DAT and close to a 4.0. They were very polished professionally and were great at communication/people skills. Experience in both fields, service, great recommendation letters, the whole nine yards.

Now the reason they were not accepted to dental school was simply because the admissions committee did not believe they were fully committed to dentistry regardless of what the applicants said becuase they had taken the MCAT and applied to med school as well.

So long story longer...regardless of your confindence, stats, experience, if you apply to both schools than some adcomms will see that as a lack of focus and desire to pursue dentistry.

I do understand the importance of keeping your options open but in acceptance to dental school you need to show focus and putting all your eggs in the "dental profession basket".

My two cents based on what I have seen. I would hate to see anyone not get into dental school if that is their first choice simply because of applying to both dental and med school.

Another question croco. If you are confident about getting into all the dental schools you apply to than why do you feel you should apply to med school as well and seriously hurt your chances of getting into dental school with all the hard work you have put into school and the DAT?
 
That was a very intelligent reply ddsdude, and I have to commend you in understanding how dental professionals feel toward those that apply to both dental and medical schools. The wise approach I have made is I am not applying to medical school this year, i am only applying to dental school. Now, I have talked to a few people about my future and have decided to stick with dental school based on personal reasons. However, if I did decided to take the MCAT and apply to medical school, it would be for 2005 and not for 2004. I still do not understand the logic of why medical and dental schools do not like students to apply to both their schools. It is an unfortuante because i feel that it is very difficult to choose between two professions that are both health related and can offer wonderful things towards the patients that they treat.
 
The bottom line is...Dental and Medical schools more than anything do not want students to withdraw from their schools. It costs money, time, image, etc for that to happen. They feel that if you apply to both schools you are not definate on your future profession. Sure, I agree one could really enjoy both fields but they are so different in many ways that they need to see the focus on one field rather than two.

There are red flags that schools look for and applying to two different professional schools is a big red flag. It is the way it has always been.

Croco, so are you saying that you will start dental school if accepted this year to just "check it out" before applying to Med school and if you are accepted to med school you will drop out of dental school to pursue med school? Please say it isn't so!!!???!!!😱
 
No...Well actually that was my plan but I discovered how "immoral" that could be toward some poor "saps" that I would not allow into the dental schools I apply to (that was brought to light by a few SDNers). No, the reason I have decided to choose dentistry is because the pros outway the cons when comparing it to medical school. DDSDUDE, I am one of those individuals that truly does not "love" the profession, but have rather attempted to enter these schools in order to help out my family financially as well as mentally. Having said this with the utmost of confidence, i must also mention that I believe in morals and treating every patient as I would treat members of my own family. This is the reason I was having trouble deciding between the two fields.
 
I have always believed in choosing your battles and SDN is not a battle ground for me as of yet. 🙂

With that being said. I respect your honesty. Good luck in what ever pursuits you choose. If you have questions about dentistry I can always bounce them off of some of my friends who are dentists or friends who are md's/do's
 
Those dentists who hate the job but love the money more often than not are the ones who try to sell expensive treatment plans full of unnecessary procedures-- The ones who give the profession a bad name.

All I can say is, if you are one of those seeking only financial security, you just might end up being one of those dentists who hate the job but love the money.

Any wonder why dental professionals despise those who apply to dental school as a "backup"?

One had better be sure he/she will enjoy dentistry before applying dental school. Otherwise, just apply to med school and leave dentistry to those who will.
 
"Having said this with the utmost of confidence, i must also mention that I believe in morals and treating every patient as I would treat members of my own family."

That was a direct quote from me just a couple of posts ago. Tom, I believe it is a little ignorant of you to determine the kind of person I really am by reading a few negative posts that people write about me.
 
Croco,

My post was not directed at you per se. It is directed to all those who will give the profession a bad name.

It's up to you of course to decide if you will or will not be one of those.

If you read my post carefully you will see I was not passing judgment on you at all.

It would be ignorant of you to assume that was the purpose of my post. It is not.

This is all I'm trying to say: You cannot expect a person who does not care for his profession to care for the welfare of his patients. That's the truth and I'm telling it like it is.

Any wonder why what you wrote would set off alarm bells? And I quote: "DDSDUDE, I am one of those individuals that truly does not "love" the profession, but have rather attempted to enter these schools in order to help out my family financially as well as mentally." That is definitely not one of those few negative posts people wrote about you...

How close is that to someone who "loves the money but hates the job?" Well, I'm reserving my judgment about you but I'm sure there will be other readers who are more opinionated than I. 😀

That's all I have to say..
 
Very informative and interesting.
 
Something I really wanted to mention is many people choose both the medical and dental field for fianancial gain. Tom, would you be willing to work as a dentist and study for four years if at the end of the climb you made $30,000 anually? The answer to that question is obviously no, unless of course you were passionately in love with the profession. Let us take two fields that perhaps do not have much in coomon but are both related to the health profession: Optometry and Dentistry. Why is it that there is on a consistant bases more dental applicants that pre-opto applicants year after year. Is it because more people just seem to be more interested in teeth than the human eye? I honestly do not feel that this is the case. The fact of the matter is that there is a wide salary difference that the average individual optometrist makes compared to a dentist.

Denist: The net median income of dentists in private practice was about $100,000 a year in 1994, according to the American Dental Association.

Opto: According to the American Optometric Association, new optometry graduates in their first year of practice earned median net incomes of about $55,500 in 1994.

One more thing I want to mention is the sudden increase in the pool of pre-pharmacy students. In 1999 there was a great need for pahrmacists and we saw salary's here in Houston shoot from the typical $45,000 a year to $75,000. All of a sudden there was a never-ending list of pre-pharmacy students. I ask, what happend? Did people here in Houston all of a sudden become more interested in pharmacy?
 
Croco,

Your digging your own grave man! If people were soley driven by money, then we'd all be getting a business degree. They make a lot of money, and spend a whol lot less time in school.

Money is good, but it shouldn't be the only reason you are going into dentistry. You have to have some respect and love for the profession. Otherwise you'll show up to work everyday treating patients like bank machines... and trust me the patients will catch on and go somewhere else.
 
Croco,

You are forgetting the tens of thousands of dentists ALL OVER THE WORLD in other countries who don't make much of a pittance. Why do THEY choose dentistry if their pay is poor?

Forget those dentists in faraway undeveloped countries for a minute-- how about right next door? Why do some Canadians choose dentistry even though it is not as lucrative to practice in Canada than the U.S.? And furthermore some of these Canadian students choose the extra trouble, effort, time and expense of coming to the United States for dental school, and rack up $250K+ of debt in U.S. dollars (which is like owing $400K Canadian) when their yearly pay is maybe 2/3 that of a U.S. dentist.

The answer to your question for the majority of practitioners who care is NOT an "obvious no."

I'm not saying that financial gain is a bad thing-- If one loves and cares for his profession and is well-compensated for it, that's fine.

What I'm saying is that being in it JUST for financial gain is a bad thing. "Hate the job but love the money" is a REALLY, REALLY bad thing. These are usually the dentists who give the profession a bad name because all they want is money and the patient's welfare be damned. These are the unscrupulous dentists who also thought the answer to your question is an "obvious no." These are the dentists who commit insurance fraud and bill for procedures they didn't perform or try to sell unnecessary treatment to patients. "Hate the job but love the money." These are the unscrupulous dentists whom the rest of the profession despises because it gives us all a bad name.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If one does not care about his chosen profession, you cannot expect the person to care about his patient's welfare. That's a truth you cannot deny.
 
seems to me that you should be spending more time planning your future than handing out all this bull for others to see...maybe growing up should be at the top of the list??
 
Dentaldream,

I have a business degree and I have been working professionally for 8 years. Believe me the return on investment with dentistry far surpasses a business degree. In every way I can think of. Opportunities are much greater with dentistry. Corporate America sucks.

Don't get me wrong I am going into dentistry for the love of it and improving others lives/health. I just wanted to interject and say that a business degree is nice to have but dentistry is where it is at. Both financially and emotionally.

My opinion.:laugh:
 
Originally posted by DDSdude
Dentaldream,

I have a business degree and I have been working professionally for 8 years. Believe me the return on investment with dentistry far surpasses a business degree. In every way I can think of. Opportunities are much greater with dentistry. Corporate America sucks.
Click to expand...


True, the salaries can vary. But think about it, for business school you arent spending nearly what you are spending for dental school. If you get into the job market in your mid 20s, and are fortunate to become a partner at an accounting firm after 10years or so, you are set for life. The ROI does vary, but you can make big $$$ in the business world, without spending as much on schooling.

A friend of mine is a perfect example of this, he owns his own house, has an infiniti G35, and is currently looking into investing into a strip mall complex.
 
Tell you the truth, you don't even need a business degree.

My uncles friend bought a Hot dog cart/stand for like 4 or 5 thousand and he makes roughly 70k a year.

He said his main business is at night when the bars close and he's out front selling hot dogs at $3 a piece😱

He's located some where in FL. But hey, no education, min investment, paid for his daughters college, nice house, nice car...can't go wrong with that.

My main point is, if you want to make money and are willing and determined you will. Dentistry is an OK salary, but there is much better for far less investment. Whatever you pick, make sure its something you love to do!!!
 
Who cares about ROI? Dental school might be a bigger investment with less payoff per unit of investment. The bottom line is that in most cases you will have a much better payoff and will outdistance all of those business people. I just think that the arguments along the lines of "if we wanted money we'd do accounting or business or engineering" are all flawed because you will almost certainly make more as a dentist.

I think we should move away from all of these hypothetical philosphical vaugeries and be a little more pragmatic. I love dentistry, but wouldn't do it if the money was crappy. I don't have a problem with this. I'm not concerned with what I would do if I was only going to make $30k per year because that will never happen. The only person who might care is the dental prof. who asks you that in your interview because he IS making $30k a year and is bitter about it. Let's grow up and realize that there are competing interests here that can't be discounted. Maybe it's becuase I'm married and the thought of providing for a family is a little more concrete now, but I chuckle at all of these totally idealistic comments that have no effect on the real world.
 
Amen jaap

And guys/gals, don't forget about job security. The job security in corporate america is almost non-existent. Someone might have a cousin who has a friend who has a sister who is doin well with a just a business degree, but on average, you can't even compare a career in dentistry to that of an average person in business.

I have said this before but I will say it again: Job security and autonomy are two very important attributes of dentistry. However, this cannot be said about a career in corporate america and working for "the man". Even if you don't make a whole lot of money in dentistry, the job security and autonomy alone should make up the difference.

And for those of you who say that you have to love teeth and everything about them, let me ask you this: Do you think a proctologist loves azzholes and rectums? I don't think so. But I can probably guess that he/she loves working with people and loves making a difference in peoples lives. This analogy can be used for almost ANY medical specialty, which is what dentistry is. I don't think you have to have a passion for teeth to go into dentistry, but you do have to love the field as a whole and what it has to offer.

I think one has to have an interest in any field that they go into. You have to truly know yourself and be able to extrapolate what it is that dentistry can offer YOU that will make YOU happy. It is hard to be truly be "successful" if you aren't happy with what you are doing. Success doesn't always equal how much money you make. There are many similarites and difference to a career in medicine and that of dentistry. I think one must look heavily at the differences to be able to distinguish which career path to choose. It took me a while to realize what I wanted out of life, but now that I have, I am confident in the career path that I have chosen and can't wait to enter this great profession.

I hope to see all of ya'll on the golf course 😉
 
Originally posted by jaap
Who cares about ROI? Dental school might be a bigger investment with less payoff per unit of investment. The bottom line is that in most cases you will have a much better payoff and will outdistance all of those business people. I just think that the arguments along the lines of "if we wanted money we'd do accounting or business or engineering" are all flawed because you will almost certainly make more as a dentist.

Amen Jaap and Critterbug

There are a lot of jobs that allow one to make a difference in people's lives which don't entail one to become a doctor or a dentist. You can be a nurse, nurse practioner, physician assistant, surgical tech, radiology tech and a dental hygenist. They require less time and money as well. So I don't buy the line that someone is becoming a dentist or a doctor just because they want to benefit people's lives. Money and prestige is obviously a part of the equation. If it wasn't then you wouldn't care about enduring a great deal of hardship just to make 45k per year. Some of us are honest about this while others are not. That's the only difference.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by mcataz
[ At the least, you could spare insulting my intelligence by not giving me some line of b.s. about how you are not in it for the money. [/B]
Click to expand...


I never said I wasnt in dentistry for the money. If you read carefully, I was stating that money should not be the only factor when entering the field. It was posted earlier that one person could care less for the profession, and is just doing it to make some serious coin. My postion is that if money is your only motivating factor, and you have zero respect for the profession, then you will crash and burn.
 
Originally posted by Dentaldream
I never said I wasnt in dentistry for the money. If you read carefully, I was stating that money should not be the only factor when entering the field. It was posted earlier that one person could care less for the profession, and is just doing it to make some serious coin. My postion is that if money is your only motivating factor, and you have zero respect for the profession, then you will crash and burn.
Click to expand...

I agree. And I wasn't responding directly to you. There are a lot of people in general who share that opinon. But good post.
 
Originally posted by Dentaldream
I never said I wasnt in dentistry for the money. If you read carefully, I was stating that money should not be the only factor when entering the field. It was posted earlier that one person could care less for the profession, and is just doing it to make some serious coin. My postion is that if money is your only motivating factor, and you have zero respect for the profession, then you will crash and burn.
Click to expand...

I actually have a friend that graduated dental school in 2001. He is making over 250K a year as a general dentist. He told me the only reason he chose the profession was to make money. Luckily, he is also very good at what he does.
 
Originally posted by croco
I actually have a friend that graduated dental school in 2001. He is making over 250K a year as a general dentist. He told me the only reason he chose the profession was to make money. Luckily, he is also very good at what he does.
Click to expand...


Well, I'd really hate to be your friend's patient. If his primary goal in his profession is to make money, then I'm sure he'll try and squeeze every penny out of his customers.
 
So your sterotypical perspective is that every person who has a job in the health profession and has done it for the money does their job immorally and unethically?

If that is your opinion you have to be the most ignorant person I personally have ever met. You could not be any more wrong.
 
Originally posted by croco
So your sterotypical perspective is that every person who has a job in the health profession and has done it for the money does their job immorally and unethically?

If that is your opinion you have to be the most ignorant person I personally have ever met. You could not be any more wrong.
Click to expand...

Nope, I'm saying that if money is the ONLY factor, then you really should think things through.

For the record, I dont ever recall personally meeting you at any time.
 
Could you two please cool it.
 
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