C's in prerequisite

[eyestrain]

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the simple answer is GPA would not matter because of the fact that earning the board license supersedes any gpa, be it high or low. the whole point of this to maximize diversity and competition. setting gpa limit would therefore hinder many qualified minority students who maybe poor, but definitely showed great potential to be great doctors one day.

But how are schools supposed to determine who has this "great potential"? I think GPA is a great indicator of where that potential lies. Not the only indicator, but a great one.

 

[ODorDO]

amazing!! i started this thread n left town for 2 weeks.... simply amazing!! i love SDN!!

 

[Dr 330SeeEye OD]

the simple answer is GPA would not matter because of the fact that earning the board license supersedes any gpa, be it high or low. the whole point of this to maximize diversity and competition. setting gpa limit would therefore hinder many qualified minority students who maybe poor, but definitely showed great potential to be great doctors one day.

thank you! FINALLY, someone answers it, although it was not the person who made the comment. look, i understand all this drama about GPA and getting in to school yada yada yada, but when someone said "i wouldn't let a doctor with a 2.0 GPA touch me" or WHATEVER was said, don't you think that's a little harsh? of course any individual is entitled to his or her own opinion, and maybe i shouldn't have commented on whoever's post that was, but tough-i did. i don't know why people get so offended on here and feel...so...attacked. walk it out. 😎

 

[hfpepperbean47]

thank you! FINALLY, someone answers it, although it was not the person who made the comment. look, i understand all this drama about GPA and getting in to school yada yada yada, but when someone said "i wouldn't let a doctor with a 2.0 GPA touch me" or WHATEVER was said, don't you think that's a little harsh? of course any individual is entitled to his or her own opinion, and maybe i shouldn't have commented on whoever's post that was, but tough-i did. i don't know why people get so offended on here and feel...so...attacked. walk it out. 😎

Don't confuse offering a strong opinion with an attack. And that was my quote, referring to the 2.0GPA. I don't believe that my comment was very harsh at all, just the truth. If I knew something like that it would shroud that person/situation with too much uncertainty for my liking. Its not the number, per se, but the connotation it brings. You are right in that everybody is entitled to their opinion...but I don't think I'd be the only one to come to that conclusion if presented with those circumstances.

I guess we can all agree that the more controversial the statment/opinion, the more lively response it garners🙂

 

[JeffChou]

This has got to be some joke. I don't think Iproblem can be serious about all that conspiratorially imposed suppression of the minorities bs. It's just too much of a stretch to take seriously. Being a minority has nothing to do with skin color, it's all about population makeup. Doing well in school isn't about money, silver spoons, skin color, or biased test making. It's about people studying and doing homework. I went to school and did my homework. Sure, my parents paid for some stuff. That doesn't mean they did my homework for me. Sure I took a Kaplan course, that doesn't mean I didn't really learn science in college.


There also seems to be many arguments in favor of those "who really want to be an optometrist." Those applicants must also, however, show a record of competence to complement desire. I don't think a distinct GPA cutoff is necessary, but that's not to say that GPA shouldn't be criteria for admission. Someone could have gotten a bunch of D's and F's through their first year in college and then gotten straight A's and B's but still graduate with a 3.0. GPAs don't measure competence as well as they measure cumulative performance. I think it is fair to let someone who messed around at first but did well later on into optometry school. Just as capable, intelligent, and driven (at the time of application at least) as someone who had the same average gpa all 4 years.


GPA cutoffs = 👎. Besides, it's not like admissions committees are running to let people in with low GPAs.They're still going to be looking at the full transcripts and applications. Transcripts tell more than the GPA. People complain as if just because schools let all these sub 3.0 applicants apply, schools are going to accept all of them.



For the OP who got a few Cs, call up the school, and SERIOUSLY study harder. You gotta try to balance out those C's somehow. It is still possible though if you have enough time to get better grades and show that you can handle optometry school (better do well on the OAT).

 

[eyelectric]

haha you are all so funny= wow I couldnt' read through the whole thread- got loads of time on your hands eh? well it must be fun i guess....


Firstly, I do understand eyestrain's concern over letting ppl into medical or optometry programs who do not demonstrate high academic abilities ONLY according to their CGPA. If someone continually gets C in classes throughout the years, then there better be a good explanation- thus why we have interviews.
ie- person has to go through chemotherapy- family has many problems-

then there is the issue that someone brought up that there are some persons who may be in an even "worse" situation but can still excel- now, please do not forgt we are unique individuals who have different adaptation capabilities and famly and network relations that affect how well they adapt- sorry i;m a psyc major so this is from my motivation class🙂

it is important to consider gpa since this is what the schools base themselves in terms of allowing interviews- there is always the option of explaining why the grades do not reflect your true academic abillity in the application forms

OAT scores can also help you- eg. if you didnt do so well in bio in prereqs but you got a 360 on bio in OAT a few years later then it shows that you can deal with it

extracurricular and volunteer are great stuff- shows you can handle courseload and still have a life, have dedication and enthusiasm but that only goes so far- we can't all be professional figure skaters only with passion- needs relentless deliberate practice-

in the end, it is the COMBINATION of grades, oat, extracurricular, shadowing, research and life circumstarnces including personality that allows the school to evaluate who can commit to the profession and excel academically- dont want to take someone who will drop out right- looks bad for the school and wastes everyone's time

as for minimum gpa, i would like to ask- is there one for med school?
should we have a min? perhaps not- someone may have really not done well in undergrad but excelled in grad school after finally understanding how to study better?

we are humans composed of the interaction of our past experiences and current circumstances

Well said...

 

[iproblem]

This has got to be some joke. I don't think Iproblem can be serious about all that conspiratorially imposed suppression of the minorities bs. It's just too much of a stretch to take seriously. Being a minority has nothing to do with skin color, it's all about population makeup. Doing well in school isn't about money, silver spoons, skin color, or biased test making. It's about people studying and doing homework. I went to school and did my homework. Sure, my parents paid for some stuff. That doesn't mean they did my homework for me. Sure I took a Kaplan course, that doesn't mean I didn't really learn science in college.


There also seems to be many arguments in favor of those "who really want to be an optometrist." Those applicants must also, however, show a record of competence to complement desire. I don't think a distinct GPA cutoff is necessary, but that's not to say that GPA shouldn't be criteria for admission. Someone could have gotten a bunch of D's and F's through their first year in college and then gotten straight A's and B's but still graduate with a 3.0. GPAs don't measure competence as well as they measure cumulative performance. I think it is fair to let someone who messed around at first but did well later on into optometry school. Just as capable, intelligent, and driven (at the time of application at least) as someone who had the same average gpa all 4 years.


GPA cutoffs = 👎. Besides, it's not like admissions committees are running to let people in with low GPAs.They're still going to be looking at the full transcripts and applications. Transcripts tell more than the GPA. People complain as if just because schools let all these sub 3.0 applicants apply, schools are going to accept all of them.



For the OP who got a few Cs, call up the school, and SERIOUSLY study harder. You gotta try to balance out those C's somehow. It is still possible though if you have enough time to get better grades and show that you can handle optometry school (better do well on the OAT).

mr. jeffcou, due to the rampant and excess admin abuse in these forums i, as a minority, am forced to limit my responses to purely factual statements and i will not indulge to tell my opinions as freely as i'd like for fear of a permanent ban from these unruly moderators.

what you witness in these forums (OD, and DO so far) is a microcosm of ourchaotic society today. we are not allowed to speak freely and not all of us are entitled to our honest opinions of any particular issues that concern pre-health students.-- just like minority protesters who engaged in civil disobediences and got their butts raked in federal steel cages.

the existence of affirmative action is here for a reason. and thta reason is to allow those minorities who are less financially fortunate, but show promise, to particulate in the health care system to provide to the unforgiving society of what we call capitalistic America. being a minority has everything to do with skin color. i'll wager u my new fubu jacket that you won't find any white minority anywhere in america. for you it's easy becuae u dont have to study and work at the same time. you got the money to take expensive prep courses which are not available to us. dont be self righteous and delusional to say everyone is born equal becuase we are not. you may think that well, everyone has problems. please be advised that minorities have greater problems to deal with comparing to you at just to decide which prep courses to take. and if you are going to impose gpa cutoff then you all might as well declare affirmative action unconstitutional...

 

[eyelectric]

mr. jeffcou, due to the rampant and excess admin abuse in these forums i, as a minority, am forced to limit my responses to purely factual statements and i will not indulge to tell my opinions as freely as i'd like for fear of a permanent ban from these unruly moderators.

what you witness in these forums (OD, and DO so far) is a microcosm of ourchaotic society today. we are not allowed to speak freely and not all of us are entitled to our honest opinions of any particular issues that concern pre-health students.-- just like minority protesters who engaged in civil disobediences and got their butts raked in federal steel cages.

the existence of affirmative action is here for a reason. and thta reason is to allow those minorities who are less financially fortunate, but show promise, to particulate in the health care system to provide to the unforgiving society of what we call capitalistic America. being a minority has everything to do with skin color. i'll wager u my new fubu jacket that you won't find any white minority anywhere in america. for you it's easy becuae u dont have to study and work at the same time. you got the money to take expensive prep courses which are not available to us. dont be self righteous and delusional to say everyone is born equal becuase we are not. you may think that well, everyone has problems. please be advised that minorities have greater problems to deal with comparing to you at just to decide which prep courses to take. and if you are going to impose gpa cutoff then you all might as well declare affirmative action unconstitutional...

Now you're attacking the admins, huh? Anyone else you would like to blame for keeping you down? You do realize that this is an anonymous forum and that the only reason anyone on here would know that you are a "minority" is because you told them. And by the way, JeffChou said in his post that he was 👎 to a GPA cutoff. Your arguments would be taken more seriously if they were filled with facts rather than opinion and conjecture.

 

[hfpepperbean47]

mr. jeffcou, due to the rampant and excess admin abuse in these forums i, as a minority, am forced to limit my responses to purely factual statements and i will not indulge to tell my opinions as freely as i'd like for fear of a permanent ban from these unruly moderators.

what you witness in these forums (OD, and DO so far) is a microcosm of ourchaotic society today. we are not allowed to speak freely and not all of us are entitled to our honest opinions of any particular issues that concern pre-health students.-- just like minority protesters who engaged in civil disobediences and got their butts raked in federal steel cages.

the existence of affirmative action is here for a reason. and thta reason is to allow those minorities who are less financially fortunate, but show promise, to particulate in the health care system to provide to the unforgiving society of what we call capitalistic America. being a minority has everything to do with skin color. i'll wager u my new fubu jacket that you won't find any white minority anywhere in america. for you it's easy becuae u dont have to study and work at the same time. you got the money to take expensive prep courses which are not available to us. dont be self righteous and delusional to say everyone is born equal becuase we are not. you may think that well, everyone has problems. please be advised that minorities have greater problems to deal with comparing to you at just to decide which prep courses to take. and if you are going to impose gpa cutoff then you all might as well declare affirmative action unconstitutional...

I will catch flack for this...but lets open the floodgates. Affirmative action is unconstitutional and prejudicial. There, I said it. Nobody here knows whether I am a minority or not (nor does it matter) but that is my opinion. I believe in accountability...we live in a society where there is ample opportunity for anybody to succeed, regardless of mitigating circumstances. Maybe this was so 20,30,40+ years ago, and perhaps affirmative action has had a bit to do with it, but I don't think it applies as much now. There are things called accountability and responsibility. I hate when people make excuses for their choices/social status/lack of opportunity by blaming it on being a "minority". Its an excuse. Is it reality? To somewhat of an extent, for sure, but its still an excuse and a way to duck responsibility. You want somebody to hold your hand when you pee as well? Would you blame pissing all over your pants or the floor on being a minority if nobody were there to help you hold it?

***WAIT***let me duck behind the wall before you start throwing rotten tomatoes and rocks at me. I just can't let this discussion end, I'm sick to the core.

 

[hfpepperbean47]

I know, I know. I should stop...but I can't. Maybe I should make this my last post on this thread. Will that do it?

 

[eyestrain]

I will catch flack for this...but lets open the floodgates. Affirmative action is unconstitutional and prejudicial.

Uh-oh.....

 

[JeffChou]

mr. jeffcou, due to the rampant and excess admin abuse in these forums i, as a minority, am forced to limit my responses to purely factual statements and i will not indulge to tell my opinions as freely as i'd like for fear of a permanent ban from these unruly moderators.

what you witness in these forums (OD, and DO so far) is a microcosm of ourchaotic society today. we are not allowed to speak freely and not all of us are entitled to our honest opinions of any particular issues that concern pre-health students.-- just like minority protesters who engaged in civil disobediences and got their butts raked in federal steel cages.

the existence of affirmative action is here for a reason. and thta reason is to allow those minorities who are less financially fortunate, but show promise, to particulate in the health care system to provide to the unforgiving society of what we call capitalistic America. being a minority has everything to do with skin color. i'll wager u my new fubu jacket that you won't find any white minority anywhere in america. for you it's easy becuae u dont have to study and work at the same time. you got the money to take expensive prep courses which are not available to us. dont be self righteous and delusional to say everyone is born equal becuase we are not. you may think that well, everyone has problems. please be advised that minorities have greater problems to deal with comparing to you at just to decide which prep courses to take. and if you are going to impose gpa cutoff then you all might as well declare affirmative action unconstitutional...

I doubt the censorship befalling you is just a result of minority targeting by the moderators. It likely has much more to do with the flagrancy you post with. You really don't need to worry about posting your opinion, so long as it isn't personally derisive or insulting.

What I find disagreeable is your linking of the two socioeconomic groups, minorities, and economically disadvantaged populations. The two are not synonyms and must be treated as separate entities. I will concede that they are not mutually exclusive; there certainly are economically disadvantaged minority groups. There are also economically disadvantaged non-Hispanic "white" people all across America just as there are economically stable minorities. Perhaps there aren't many cities where the whites make up a majority of the population (they certainly exist). Regardless, I don't see why cities where there white minority cities is relevant to this debate. It doesn't take pigment to be a minority. Asians are a minority in America (3.7% actually [US Census 2000]), even more so than Hispanics and Blacks (both around 12% of the population). If you're talking about strictly just minority (>50%), Los Angeles' non-Hispanic white population is about 46.9%, not to mention Hispanics and Latinos trailing closely behind at 46.5% (pm me for my shipping address. I'll take good care of that FUBU jacket).

Also, please save the lectures about being a minority, because if you hadn't caught on, I'm Chinese. I'd suggest you lighten up on your tirade against what we call "capitalist America" because this is where the most important colors are green, silver, and gold. Now, I will concede that it doesn't give too much hope to the underprivileged in America, but it is largely blind to race. Cash is king and purchasing power is still a privilege of those who work for it. I went to a high school where whites made up about 25% of the student body while Hispanics and Asians made up the rest. Public education was there for those who wanted it. This high school, where typical minorities (Asians and Hispanics) had a plurality of the student body, everyone had an equal chance.

You greatly belittle my academic efforts when you say that I haven't dealt with problems that "real" minorities have to deal with. It is that kind of tone that will attract the intervention of moderators (as it should). Don't be "deluded" into thinking that expensive test prep is the only way people succeed. When I was taking the OAT back in December, I wasn't thinking about the time we covered the dynamics of forces on a Thursday as the Kaplan course instructor glossed over "F=ma," I was recalling the time I spent 30 minutes on a similar physics problem until I understood it. I was recalling the hours I spent drawing out the structure of the kidney and re-writing the sources , destinations, and functions of all the hormones in the endocrine system. I do wish it were only as easy as choosing which expensive prep course to take. The magic knowledge pill would have made my winter break studying time spent otherwise.

I gotta say though--you're still right with one point. If I was working instead of studying all winter break--or all throughout college, for that matter--I wouldn't have been able to spend all those hours reciting pathways and working out chemical reactions. And for that, I apologize. Anyone working more than 2 days a week really deserves those A's I eagerly and "self-righteously" took credit for.

And for the record, I do think that affirmative action is unconstitutional. I feel that it is just institutional racism. As I've already said, the entire transcript should be examined, not just the GPA (minimums=👎 ). By the same token, applicant circumstances (had to work full time, death in the family, medical events affecting academics, etc) should also be assessed and properly considered, but not skin color. I don't care so much for the color of my doctors so much as I care about their competences.

In an effort to keep this thread unlocked, I will refrain from making personally attacking comments in kind. I hope this digression from the topic will be allowed by the moderators for the continue open communication among forum readers. Just keep it civil, people.

 

[JMU07]

mr. jeffcou, due to the rampant and excess admin abuse in these forums i, as a minority, am forced to limit my responses to purely factual statements and i will not indulge to tell my opinions as freely as i'd like for fear of a permanent ban from these unruly moderators.

what you witness in these forums (OD, and DO so far) is a microcosm of ourchaotic society today. we are not allowed to speak freely and not all of us are entitled to our honest opinions of any particular issues that concern pre-health students.-- just like minority protesters who engaged in civil disobediences and got their butts raked in federal steel cages.

the existence of affirmative action is here for a reason. and thta reason is to allow those minorities who are less financially fortunate, but show promise, to particulate in the health care system to provide to the unforgiving society of what we call capitalistic America. being a minority has everything to do with skin color. i'll wager u my new fubu jacket that you won't find any white minority anywhere in america. for you it's easy becuae u dont have to study and work at the same time. you got the money to take expensive prep courses which are not available to us. dont be self righteous and delusional to say everyone is born equal becuase we are not. you may think that well, everyone has problems. please be advised that minorities have greater problems to deal with comparing to you at just to decide which prep courses to take. and if you are going to impose gpa cutoff then you all might as well declare affirmative action unconstitutional...

Are you serious? Did you really just say that white people have money to take prep courses and minorities do not? Not all minorities are poor, just as not all white people are rich. I'm as white as white gets and I sure as heck don't have $1000+ for a Kaplan course. I don't even know where I'm going to get enough money to travel for my interviews in the fall, provided I even get any. So please, keep your generalized comments to yourself.

hfpepperbean, well said on the affirmative action post. I agree with you.

 

[eyestrain]

Are you serious? Did you really just say that white people have money to take prep courses and minorities do not? Not all minorities are poor, just as not all white people are rich. I'm as white as white gets and I sure as heck don't have $1000+ for a Kaplan course. I don't even know where I'm going to get enough money to travel for my interviews in the fall, provided I even get any. So please, keep your generalized comments to yourself.

I'm in the same boat as you and I found out quickly that iproblem won't listen to you if you don't fit the "rich, white kid" stereotype. Somehow just being white, even if you have no money, means that you have it made. I'm not sure how, but you do. Just ask iproblem.

 

[eyestrain]

double post

 

[Dr.Inviz]

mr. jeffcou, due to the rampant and excess admin abuse in these forums i, as a minority, am forced to limit my responses to purely factual statements and i will not indulge to tell my opinions as freely as i'd like for fear of a permanent ban from these unruly moderators.

what you witness in these forums (OD, and DO so far) is a microcosm of ourchaotic society today. we are not allowed to speak freely and not all of us are entitled to our honest opinions of any particular issues that concern pre-health students.-- just like minority protesters who engaged in civil disobediences and got their butts raked in federal steel cages.

the existence of affirmative action is here for a reason. and thta reason is to allow those minorities who are less financially fortunate, but show promise, to particulate in the health care system to provide to the unforgiving society of what we call capitalistic America. being a minority has everything to do with skin color. i'll wager u my new fubu jacket that you won't find any white minority anywhere in america. for you it's easy becuae u dont have to study and work at the same time. you got the money to take expensive prep courses which are not available to us. dont be self righteous and delusional to say everyone is born equal becuase we are not. you may think that well, everyone has problems. please be advised that minorities have greater problems to deal with comparing to you at just to decide which prep courses to take. and if you are going to impose gpa cutoff then you all might as well declare affirmative action unconstitutional...

Riiighhhttttt ....

Quit pulling the old and overused race card just because you can't win an argument that you love starting. Iproblem here has started 2 "fights" within the DO board and resorted to calling us racist because he could not win the argument and got put in his rightful place. It's put up or shut up and it's time for you to shut up. Nobody has ever mentioned your race nor has given you hell over it, yet you continue to bring up some sort of suppression you experience on SDN because of the color of your skin. Since when can we even see the color of your skin? Exactly.

BTW, now I realize where you have attained the "iproblem," it must have been from the 1-2 punch received from JPH and me while attempting to mess with us and DOs as a whole. Have you gone to see a doctor lately, "doktor?"

 

[iproblem]

first and foremost, the astonishingly lack of social consciousness in this forum is utterly unacceptable and disgusting. what i have distinctively sensed is a general trend of social disconnection as evident by the various posts by these reprehensible and criminally punishable individuals, who use the internet as a shield, to skillfully and deliberately push their evil agenda to ostracize the minority community (ex. invoking for a termination of affirmative action). often times i find myself in frustration of these individuals who dont seem to fully grasp the idea of social justice and the underlying foundation of the initial american society. you must understand that immeasurable damage was done to us in the past and we will not let that happen again. please learn from what happened in virginia tech. and don imus.

why is dr. inviz stalking me? i've put him on ignore and i dont know what he's writing. this kid is up to no good. it doesnt matter since he and his DO crony JPH offers nothing in substance to warrant anyone's attention anyway. Pre-opt students should read what he and JPH wrote in the DO forum. they repeatedly threw humiliating attacks toward optometrists which are often times uncalled for. they vocalized their highly derogatory opinions of optometrists as weak, inadequate, and unworthy for the name of being called a doctor. i demand dr. inviz and JPH to offer pre-opt and optometrists an official apology for what they incited in the DO forum.

 

[eyestrain]

they repeatedly threw humiliating attacks toward optometrists which are often times uncalled for. they vocalized their highly derogatory opinions of optometrists as weak, inadequate, and unworthy for the name of being called a doctor. i demand dr. inviz and JPH to offer pre-opt and optometrists an official apology for what they incited in the DO forum.

As soon as you apologize for the mess you started here. And I don't care what they said about optometrists, that isn't the point. If I sat around demanding apologies from all the MDs and DOs who try to degrade optometry, I'd have no time to promote a "GPA barrier" to keep minorities out of optometry school🙄

 

[hye345]

Iproblem, does your brain actually process the information that comes out of your mouth?

 

[JeffChou]

first and foremost, the astonishingly lack of social consciousness in this forum is utterly unacceptable and disgusting. what i have distinctively sensed is a general trend of social disconnection as evident by the various posts by these reprehensible and criminally punishable individuals, who use the internet as a shield, to skillfully and deliberately push their evil agenda to ostracize the minority community (ex. invoking for a termination of affirmative action). often times i find myself in frustration of these individuals who dont seem to fully grasp the idea of social justice and the underlying foundation of the initial american society. you must understand that immeasurable damage was done to us in the past and we will not let that happen again. please learn from what happened in virginia tech. and don imus.

why is dr. inviz stalking me? i've put him on ignore and i dont know what he's writing. this kid is up to no good. it doesnt matter since he and his DO crony JPH offers nothing in substance to warrant anyone's attention anyway. Pre-opt students should read what he and JPH wrote in the DO forum. they repeatedly threw humiliating attacks toward optometrists which are often times uncalled for. they vocalized their highly derogatory opinions of optometrists as weak, inadequate, and unworthy for the name of being called a doctor. i demand dr. inviz and JPH to offer pre-opt and optometrists an official apology for what they incited in the DO forum.

I still can't figure out if you're just joking around with us or not. If you aren't, let me assure you that I am not hiding behind any shields (guess what my login name means), nor am I pushing any sort of evil agenda to ostracize people who belong to racial minority groups, like myself. Since you offer neither logic nor direction in your argument, your inflammatory and disconnected social alarmist remarks are unconvincing. If you want to be taken seriously, start making some logical connections. And please, don't insensitively cite the unrelated events at Virginia Tech in your attempt to preach affirmative action. Whether or not you are just pulling my leg, that reference is unnecessary and uncalled for.

 

[cpw]

I closed this thread for obvious reasons... sorry it wasn't sooner. (I don't have time to read EVERY thread, so if you see something that's not appropriate please push the "report post" button at the bottom of the post)