CSPM vs. Western

[kp2dmax]

I am having problems deciding which school would be a better choice for me since I've heard positives and negatives of both. I was wondering if any of you had an opinion of either schools or why any of you would choose one over the other?

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[air bud]

nobody ever talks about CSPM on here. I am pretty sure it doesnt even exist anymore.

 

[RATM2010]

I chose CSPM due to its location, early clinical exposure, and most importantly their weekly tests vs block comprehensive exams. Western is really good too, just still growing out their kinks. They are really all about vision 2015 and CSPM is not. This is a pretty clear difference that can sway your opinion on where to go.

 

[hematosis]

Western.

 

[emericana]

I chose CSPM due to its location, early clinical exposure, and most importantly their weekly tests vs block comprehensive exams. Western is really good too, just still growing out their kinks. They are really all about vision 2015 and CSPM is not. This is a pretty clear difference that can sway your opinion on where to go.

Do you regret going to cspm? Why do you say the school is not about
Vision 2015?

 

[zloetakoe]

Do you regret going to cspm? Why do you say the school is not about
Vision 2015?

Anyone else feel like vision 2015 has been put on the backburner? I haven't heard too much about it lately.

 

[RATM2010]

Do you regret going to cspm? Why do you say the school is not about
Vision 2015?

I start this fall. i just remember how angry and defensive our interviewer seemed anytime anyone mentioned it. It was actually rather weird and uncomfortable. I asked the students afer the doc left more indept questions. In a nutshell, certain schools are geared towards vision2015 and CSPM is not one of them. If vision 2015 is important to you, you many not want to choose CSPM.

 

[RATM2010]

Anyone else feel like vision 2015 has been put on the backburner? I haven't heard too much about it lately.

To be honest, I don't see the big point of Vision 2015. Noone, including specalized md/dos are "full physicians". I met a many psychiatrist that can not even id a rbc under the microscope. I think that this is mostly something about politics. I agree that the curricuums are kinda similar but they are also kinda different. At my point in my life, I'm really just focused on moving to Cali and doing well in school.

 

[kp2dmax]

I appreciate your responses. However, I can't decide whether vision 2015 would be a good or bad thing. Would western students have to take the USMLE or can they take the regular Podiatry boards? I am uncertain about incorporating DO's, DPM's and Dentists into the same class. Not to say it's bad, it just concerns me.

 

[zloetakoe]

I appreciate your responses. However, I can't decide whether vision 2015 would be a good or bad thing. Would western students have to take the USMLE or can they take the regular Podiatry boards? I am uncertain about incorporating DO's, DPM's and Dentists into the same class. Not to say it's bad, it just concerns me.

Don't let it worry you too much. Like I said before, it's kind of a back burner issue. I highly doubt that one podiatry school is going to start taking USMLE without all the pod schools doing the same thing. It's going to have to be an all or nothing approach, if it even happens. Vision 2015 boils down to jockeying for position. Won't drastically change what podiatrists do. The profession may be looked at a little differently though.

My advice is go to the school you'll enjoy the most, and as someone else mentioned- focus on doing well in school.

 

[dyk343]

Western is the most pro 2015 school out there. All the other schools are about equal in "vision" for 2015. At least thats my understanding.

 

[VVMed1]

nobody ever talks about CSPM on here. I am pretty sure it doesnt even exist anymore.

Why's this the case? I've mainly considered allopathic schools but recently discovered podiatry as a profession and I'm very much interested (shadowing in a few weeks), so I'd like to know as well.

Thanks!

 

[emericana]

Why's this the case? I've mainly considered allopathic schools but recently discovered podiatry as a profession and I'm very much interested (shadowing in a few weeks), so I'd like to know as well.

Thanks!

Is no one else scared about applying to western because it is not accredited ye?

I mean I can tell you for a fact that is the reason I didn't even consider going there.

The last thing I would want is to put in all that time and $ at the program and have it be for nothing at the end of the day if it doesnt get accredited.

 

[air bud]

Why's this the case? I've mainly considered allopathic schools but recently discovered podiatry as a profession and I'm very much interested (shadowing in a few weeks), so I'd like to know as well.

Thanks!

I was joking about it not existing. In regards to why it is not discussed much on SDN, believe it or not (george isn't at home) SDN is not the center of the universe when it comes to pod schools. CSPM (samuel merrit) just doesnt have many visible posters on here. I encourage you to use other resources if that is a school you are interested in.

 

[air bud]

Is no one else scared about applying to western because it is not accredited ye?

I mean I can tell you for a fact that is the reason I didn't even consider going there.

The last thing I would want is to put in all that time and $ at the program and have it be for nothing at the end of the day if it doesnt get accredited.

I am sure Darazon will provide actual facts in regards to the accreditation process, I don't think anyone has much to worry about. Western is a strong collection of health sciences programs. They have well established and respected faculty and administrators associated with the program. It's not like this is some shady internet only pod school with some domain name registered in Dubai. If you want to be wary of some of the curriculum hiccups that might occur with starting a program that is one thing, but I don't think worrying about the accreditation is worth the mental energy.

 

[kp2dmax]

I'm also worried about Accreditation but I don't know if I should dwell on that so much since I'm pretty sure they will be accredited, especially when they have so many other programs. But still, it's in the back of my mind....

 

[dyk343]

Their accreditation is a HUGE issue IMO.

Yes they probably will be accredited... but is it worth gambling 200K on a new program that is yet to graduate a class and is sure to have kinks along the way?

Obviously some think so because they were able to fill their classes.

Thats a risk Im not willing to take. To each their own.

 

[darazon]

For those of you who have ever visited and interviewed at Western, you quickly realize that accreditation is a non-issue.

Western is not yet fully accredited by the CPME. CPME does not grant full accreditation status to any school until they have students in all 4 years. It is not a reflection on Western's capability to produce competent podiatric physicians, it's just how the CPME does things. Full accreditation involves 3 steps.

http://wsprod.westernu.edu/news/nr_detail.jsp?id=9202&groupname=PeopleatWU

Western does have candidate status, which is the second out of the 3 steps. To my knowledge the CPME has never not granted accreditation status to any of the schools; however, they have revoked CSPM's status a few years ago and then reinstated them.

Don't let the lack of full accreditation keep you from applying. Come check it out for yourself and you be the judge.

I agree with the comments about Western being very pro-vision 2015 (and no it is not on the back-burner!). When I interviewed around, I felt that they really got the concept of vision 2015. Other schools said that they did, but could not show solid proof of what they had changed in accordance. Being a newer program, Western does have the advantage of building a pro-vision 2015 curriculum without all the red tape which can be experienced at other institutions.

For those of you who are confused about what 2015 is all about. It's simple, it comes down to fair and equal compensation. To get that you have to prove yourself first though. You can't have a lackluster education and sub-par residency training and expect to be paid the same rates as a orthopod -it doesn't work that way.

As far as the USMLE goes, yes there is talk about Western students taking it. They would also take the NBPME, now the APMLE (2015 in action). It's all talk right now though -nothing solid. Interestingly, the California board of podiatric medicine does now accept the USMLE as a valid licensing exam for the state of California.

I think there have been good comparisons in this thread between Western and CSPM. They are completely different schools. You start clinics earlier at CSPM (2nd year vs 3rd), but the payoff is that you still have classes during your 3rd year. Once we start our 3rd year, NO MORE CLASSES!!!

It comes down to what you like vs don't like. Interview at both and then make your decision. They will both give you a DPM.

As a side note, keep in mind that if you plan on staying in cali for residency, you will more than likely be competing with students from Western. Personally, I would like to come from the school that is known to be the harder of the two programs.

Good luck!

 

[dyk343]

Darazon, I like what you said above and agree with most of it.

However... if a student failed out and went to another program of course they are going to act like they are doing way better. Its an ego issue. Its not likely a student will admit to "friends" that they are doing just as bad or maybe slightly better at a new school.

I wouldnt take this as "my school is harder than that school because student X failed here but is doing well there"

Also, its probably not a good idea to call individual students out in an online forum.. especially within such a small profession.


And as a disclaimer:
I may have come off earlier as trying to persuade students not to attend Western due to accreditation. That was not my intention.

I did italicize "probably will" as well as something along the lines of "its not for me.. to each their own" These are my opinions that I choose for myself when considering western and should not be taken as deterrents to prospective students.

 

[RATM2010]

REally,

Dear Darazon, I would love to me this Doogie Houser,DPM at CSPM. Did you even bother to ask youself that the reason the student is doing better is perhaps because he/she has already seen the material once already? It is all a matter of opinion on which program is harder. Who really cares? Its about which school can give you the tools to pass boards and get into your residency. As a CSPM student, I have no fear of any student from Western. I'm only concerned about my grades and my board scores. I'm pretty sure that will speak for itself. I understand being pro-Western because you go there, but don't put opinion based bias statements out there to novice pre-pod students. Based on your gloat, Western is the top pod school already. Just relax a bit and worry about Western instead of dissing CSPM's "easy" curriculum. Last time I checked, all schools needed the same classes to get the degree. Unless you are saying that Western's curriculum is identical to md/do curriculum, which it is not.

 

[itswiggles]

- Hey everybody so I read some comments and wanted to contribute.
- I have visited both schools. However, I have decided to choose Western over CSPM mainly because I felt like that factors that I was looking at when choosing a school were best fitted by Western. I also had reservations about attending Western and one of the main issues was the accreditation factor. I also want to agree with Darazon that once you actually visit and interact with professors/staff at the school you will realize that the accreditation issue will not be a problem. Yes, technically it is a "gamble" but concerning this accreditation status, I think the risk factor is very low.
However, I do want to say that I believe CSPM will provide very good education for anybody that attends the school. I personally thoroughly enjoyed my time there. The faculty and staff that I met were very nice and gave me very good impressions. Their facilities were great, and I especially like their new simulation center which was very impressive. Also, since the school has been around for a while now they obviously have the capability of turning out well trained DPMs. Overall, I think that if you get an interview at either school they are definitely worth checking out. Only you can decide your future, I would not leave that decision up to what you see on SDN. Just take the posts with a pinch of salt, and make the decision that is best for you.

 

[emericana]

For those of you who have ever visited and interviewed at Western, you quickly realize that accreditation is a non-issue.

Western is not yet fully accredited by the CPME. CPME does not grant full accreditation status to any school until they have students in all 4 years. It is not a reflection on Western's capability to produce competent podiatric physicians, it's just how the CPME does things. Full accreditation involves 3 steps.

http://wsprod.westernu.edu/news/nr_detail.jsp?id=9202&groupname=PeopleatWU

Western does have candidate status, which is the second out of the 3 steps. To my knowledge the CPME has never not granted accreditation status to any of the schools; however, they have revoked CSPM's status a few years ago and then reinstated them.

Don't let the lack of full accreditation keep you from applying. Come check it out for yourself and you be the judge.

I agree with the comments about Western being very pro-vision 2015 (and no it is not on the back-burner!). When I interviewed around, I felt that they really got the concept of vision 2015. Other schools said that they did, but could not show solid proof of what they had changed in accordance. Being a newer program, Western does have the advantage of building a pro-vision 2015 curriculum without all the red tape which can be experienced at other institutions.

For those of you who are confused about what 2015 is all about. It's simple, it comes down to fair and equal compensation. To get that you have to prove yourself first though. You can't have a lackluster education and sub-par residency training and expect to be paid the same rates as a orthopod -it doesn't work that way.

As far as the USMLE goes, yes there is talk about Western students taking it. They would also take the NBPME, now the APMLE (2015 in action). It's all talk right now though -nothing solid. Interestingly, the California board of podiatric medicine does now accept the USMLE as a valid licensing exam for the state of California.

I think there have been good comparisons in this thread between Western and CSPM. They are completely different schools. You start clinics earlier at CSPM (2nd year vs 3rd), but the payoff is that you still have classes during your 3rd year. Once we start our 3rd year, NO MORE CLASSES!!!

Western has a much harder curriculum. We had a student who failed a class and also failed the remediation for that class. He also had low marks in a couple other classes. The academic review council voted to kick him out, Dr. Harkless overthrew the decision and told him he could just repeat the year. He was upset and ended up transferring to CSPM. Last I heard from him, he was doing so well in his classes he didn't need to take the final exams. He mentioned how easy the tests were and how happy he was.

It comes down to what you like vs don't like. Interview at both and then make your decision. They will both give you a DPM.

As a side note, keep in mind that if you plan on staying in cali for residency, you will more than likely be competing with students from Western. Personally, I would like to come from the school that is known to be the harder of the two programs.

Good luck!

Just out of curiosity why was CSPM's status revoked a couple of years back?

 

[kp2dmax]

Just out of curiosity why was CSPM's status revoked a couple of years back?

I believe this was an issue of just handing in the application two or three days late from what I heard at my interview.

Thanks for the good information everyone. I don't think one school will be harder than the other. It's all in how much effort you put into your work. Now I'm just more inclined to flip a coin than ever (No, just kidding).

 

[dtrack22]

2 things

1. I like Harkless, but his current notion of having Western students take the USMLE is a pipe dream. We can't sit for the exam and I don't see the NBME changing that anytime soon.

2. Why don't we wait until Spetember, when CSPM and Western can duke it out over board scores!? I guarantee it'll be more entertaining than the Anderson Silva fight was on Saturday. CSPM better improve over last summer if they want to be the Kings of Cali...I'm sure they told you the pass rate at your interview RATM?

 

[RATM2010]

2. Why don't we wait until Spetember, when CSPM and Western can duke it out over board scores!? I guarantee it'll be more entertaining than the Anderson Silva fight was on Saturday. CSPM better improve over last summer if they want to be the Kings of Cali...I'm sure they told you the pass rate at your interview RATM?[/QUOTE]


This is a mute point. I'm not saying that Western is a better/worse school. I'm simply calling out the opinion od one Western student that seems to feel that one school is "tougher" than another. Board scores have nothing todo with that. Why would you think one school has a "tougher" curriculum over another because a mysterious student is doing better at CSPM. Personally, I think starting early clinicals while balancing the 2nd year school load is pretty challenging compared to just doing clinicals in 3rd year. JMO!

 

[itswiggles]

- I agree with RATM about CSPM's philosophy with early clinicals during 2nd year. Practice makes perfect, and I don't see any downside with more experience in the clinical setting.
- I believe at Western since we take Podiatry classes along with our basic medical science courses - which these are side by side with DOs and - therefore they want the 1st and 2nd year to mirror a medical school structure. Hence, we complete the first two years of our medical/podiatry curriculum and then continue with clinicals/externships during the 3rd and 4th years.
- It is impossible to say which school is more difficult. Each has their strengths and different focuses. Obviously CSPM is more established, but it will only be a matter of time when Western starts to produce quality DPMs. Both programs are great.

 

[hematosis]

2 things

1. I like Harkless, but his current notion of having Western students take the USMLE is a pipe dream. We can't sit for the exam and I don't see the NBME changing that anytime soon.

2. Why don't we wait until Spetember, when CSPM and Western can duke it out over board scores!? I guarantee it'll be more entertaining than the Anderson Silva fight was on Saturday. CSPM better improve over last summer if they want to be the Kings of Cali...I'm sure they told you the pass rate at your interview RATM?

I really can't stand that guy or his translator. I was really pulling for belfort.

 

[RATM2010]

After reviewing Western's curriculum, I stand corrected. This currculum is by far more complex than that at CSPM. At least I'm admitting my mistake. They even get psychiatry during first year. My bad! I am very impressed with the parallel effect during the frst year with md/do curriculum. I'm all for learning, but one could make an argument that learning more "untested on podiatric boards" > bad than good. I am not though. In my opinion, CSPM's curriculum can learn something from Western. JMHO!~

 

[darazon]

After reviewing Western's curriculum, I stand corrected. This currculum is by far more complex than that at CSPM. At least I'm admitting my mistake. They even get psychiatry during first year. My bad! I am very impressed with the parallel effect during the frst year with md/do curriculum. I'm all for learning, but one could make an argument that learning more "untested on podiatric boards" > bad than good. I am not though. In my opinion, CSPM's curriculum can learn something from Western. JMHO!~

For boards part 1, that is a non issue since the material is basic science and anatomy, so I wouldn't call it untested.

However, I do see that point of view, and most of the students do as well. We do have a very rigorous schedule to keep to; taking all of the first 2 years of classes with DOs and then having our own podiatric classes on top of it. It's not like we are taking more basic science classes at the expense of less pod classes -its just more of everything. Unfortunately, the pod classes can sometimes take a back seat when we have a rigorous basic science class in the works.

The psych class was fun and interesting. I actually caught myself thinking a couple of times that "maybe I should go into psych;" then I remembered I'm in podiatry school!

As I said before, they are 2 different programs, with a different focus. Which one is better depends on you.

 

[darazon]

I like Harkless, but his current notion of having Western students take the USMLE is a pipe dream. We can't sit for the exam and I don't see the NBME changing that anytime soon.

Probably. I don't think it is happening any time soon at least.

The NBME is being lobbied to allow pod students to sit for the exam. Who knows what will happen....

 

[emericana]

For boards part 1, that is a non issue since the material is basic science and anatomy, so I wouldn't call it untested.

However, I do see that point of view, and most of the students do as well. We do have a very rigorous schedule to keep to; taking all of the first 2 years of classes with DOs and then having our own podiatric classes on top of it. It's not like we are taking more basic science classes at the expense of less pod classes -its just more of everything. Unfortunately, the pod classes can sometimes take a back seat when we have a rigorous basic science class in the works.

The psych class was fun and interesting. I actually caught myself thinking a couple of times that "maybe I should go into psych;" then I remembered I'm in podiatry school!

As I said before, they are 2 different programs, with a different focus. Which one is better depends on you.

Does it bother you at all that you have to take 100% of the same classes (correct me if im wrong) as DO students but do not get to choose when you are done with all of that? I think it would bother me a little bit..

i mean podiatry is cool and all and im excited to be able to be a surgeon but sometimes i too wornder if i would want to be a psychiatrist or neurologist (since i am interested in neuroscience)

 

[RATM2010]

Probably. I don't think it is happening any time soon at least.

The NBME is being lobbied to allow pod students to sit for the exam. Who knows what will happen....

Question, do POD school students ever feel treated unequal or lesser than DO students while in class by fellow students or faculty? This is CSPM's big beef against vision 2015. Another thing, I never see us taking the usmle. After having an almost exact curriculum + same board test as md/do students, what is stopping a pod student from applying to psych or neuro residencies. For that reason alone, it would kinda defeat the point of having pod schools cuz many if not most would not choose to enter traditional pod residencies. Interesting idea though.

 

[air bud]

Question, do POD school students ever feel treated unequal or lesser than DO students while in class by fellow students or faculty?

At no point have I ever felt this in my experience at DMU. I also can't think of a single classmate that has ever expressed this happening.

This is CSPM's big beef against vision 2015. Another thing, I never see us taking the usmle. After having an almost exact curriculum + same board test as md/do students, what is stopping a pod student from applying to psych or neuro residencies.

Before Dtrack comes in here and insults you, let me put it simply and say "Don't worry, it is not possible. There are other requirements than taking the USMLE."

For that reason alone, it would kinda defeat the point of having pod schools cuz many if not most would not choose to enter traditional pod residencies. Interesting idea though.

...

 

[darazon]

Does it bother you at all that you have to take 100% of the same classes (correct me if im wrong) as DO students but do not get to choose when you are done with all of that? I think it would bother me a little bit..

i mean podiatry is cool and all and im excited to be able to be a surgeon but sometimes i too wornder if i would want to be a psychiatrist or neurologist (since i am interested in neuroscience)

There are 2 sides of thinking to this.

Yes, it would be nice to choose which specialty you want to enter after you have had a good taste of what exactly is out there. However, all because you want a certain specialty, doesn't mean that you'll get it.

Everyone in the DPM program will be a podiatric surgeon/physician. So that is comforting

Because we do take all of our classes with the DO students (except for Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine, OMM) you do get a good sense of what other specialties are like. So ya, sometimes I have "what if" moments, but our podiatry classes have made me even more excited about my chosen specialty.

Plus, our tuition is about half of what the DOs pay!!!

 

[darazon]

Question, do POD school students ever feel treated unequal or lesser than DO students while in class by fellow students or faculty? This is CSPM's big beef against vision 2015. Another thing, I never see us taking the usmle. After having an almost exact curriculum + same board test as md/do students, what is stopping a pod student from applying to psych or neuro residencies. For that reason alone, it would kinda defeat the point of having pod schools cuz many if not most would not choose to enter traditional pod residencies. Interesting idea though.

I have never felt unequal at all. It's nice to actually let other students from other programs know what exactly a podiatrist does.

Sometimes I think there a certain professors who are oblivious to the fact that we are here. I mean there are 200 or so DO students and only 29 of us.

As for applying to a non-podiatry residency, I agree with air bud -too many other factors at play.

 

[air bud]

There are 2 sides of thinking to this.

Yes, it would be nice to choose which specialty you want to enter after you have had a good taste of what exactly is out there. However, all because you want a certain specialty, doesn't mean that you'll get it.

Everyone in the DPM program will be a podiatric surgeon/physician. So that is comforting

Because we do take all of our classes with the DO students (except for Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine, OMM) you do get a good sense of what other specialties are like. So ya, sometimes I have "what if" moments, but our podiatry classes have made me even more excited about my chosen specialty.

Plus, our tuition is about half of what the DOs pay!!!

I don't know if this is necessarily a good thing...

 

[GimliSonOfGloin]

Western is ****ty school I heard from many multiple sources that go to Western and I heard that many wish they went to the norcal school instead for better education. Many are dropping out and the test averages are so low. Do not go to Western. Waste of money I hear. I kid not.

God Bless America,
Gimli, Son of Gloin

 

[emericana]

Western is ****ty school I heard from many multiple sources that go to Western and I heard that many wish they went to the norcal school instead for better education. Many are dropping out and the test averages are so low. Do not go to Western. Waste of money I hear. I kid not.

God Bless America,
Gimli, Son of Gloin

Lol.

Not exactly the most productive post I have read in my life.

 

[darazon]

Western is ****ty school I heard from many multiple sources that go to Western and I heard that many wish they went to the norcal school instead for better education. Many are dropping out and the test averages are so low. Do not go to Western. Waste of money I hear. I kid not.

God Bless America,
Gimli, Son of Gloin

:troll:

 

[jonwill]

Western is ****ty school I heard from many multiple sources that go to Western and I heard that many wish they went to the norcal school instead for better education. Many are dropping out and the test averages are so low. Do not go to Western. Waste of money I hear. I kid not.

God Bless America,
Gimli, Son of Gloin

That is a pretty strong opinion. I recently had dinner with the dean of the Western program and I think he would disagree with you. Sure, new programs have "growing pains" but I think it is and will be a solid program.

 

[air bud]

Listen, I am NOT trying to start something here. But our friend Gimli brings up an interesting point--Do Western students ever feel that being put in with the DO's is just because they don't have a better (currently) way of educating them? Admin can sell it as a benefit, but maybe the reality is that they don't currently have a plan in place for a more focused podiatry specific education. I dont care what you tell me, taking OB is NOT going to help you in the future. I would be really frustrated if I had to be in class all day and didn't feel I had enough time to study for my biomechanics test becasue I was too busy learning about the baby's head position during birth. Again, not trying to start something, just raising an alternative that can hopefully be reasonably and respectfully discussed. Hopefully Darazon can comment, and hopefully another Western person could as well.

 

[darazon]

They put student in every DO class plus podiatry classes and this I hear the podiatry students have longer days and more class hours than the DO student.

False. How do we have longer days and class hours when we take the same classes?? PMP takes the place of OMM and at the same time.

Pretty "reliable" sources.

Student are failing classes and they wont [don't] give a damn[,] and I here [hear] they act like the students are a bunch of ****ing idiot.

False. This honestly made me laugh. Ask any Western student and they'll say that the faculty care very much and are very receptive to our concerns and feedback. When was the last time you actually visited and met with the faculty? Ya, there are learning pains, I've repeatedly admitted that, and it is to be expected.

I think I know exactly who your "source(s)" are, they are the same type at every school. Ticked off at the world for not handing them the easy way through life.

Do not go to Western if you want to have an education and succeed. I here [hear] the deans are nice people but have no idea what is happening at their own school. Ask most all of Western students except for ********er pig Darazon and i gaurentee you will here [hear] the same thing. Notice no other western student comments on this website?

Wow, I'm actually speechless. The last time someone called me a name it was my 4 year old son. I think he actually called me an "eyeball." I didn't think I would ever hear it from an applicant to a professional school -good luck at those interviews.

Anyways, I will let people be their own judges of a school and not feed lies and rumors on a public forum.

Btw, I corrected some of your spelling and grammatical errors. Sorry I didn't get to all of them, but I have to get back to studying.

 

[darazon]

Listen, I am NOT trying to start something here. But our friend Gimli brings up an interesting point--Do Western students ever feel that being put in with the DO's is just because they don't have a better (currently) way of educating them? Admin can sell it as a benefit, but maybe the reality is that they don't currently have a plan in place for a more focused podiatry specific education. I dont care what you tell me, taking OB is NOT going to help you in the future. I would be really frustrated if I had to be in class all day and didn't feel I had enough time to study for my biomechanics test becasue I was too busy learning about the baby's head position during birth. Again, not trying to start something, just raising an alternative that can hopefully be reasonably and respectfully discussed. Hopefully Darazon can comment, and hopefully another Western person could as well.

That's a good question and a lot of us have wondered the same thing. Our basic sciences are just piggy-backed with the DO students.

The problem with, say something like OB, is that it is mixed in with other "classes" as part of the systems approach. For example, OB would be in the reproductive system in which we learn the anatomy, histology, etc etc. So we learn about gonococcal infections, breast development, embryology, testicular CA, UTI, etc all within the same class and on the same test. Obviously, not everything we learn is podiatry board testable, but a lot of it is.

I know they put a lot of thought into each class we have to take, and it would be nice to cut out the "nice to know" stuff. But I think their viewpoint is that the benefits outweigh the negatives. Time will tell though. There are exam questions that are thrown out for us by Dr. Christman that don't 'meet the criteria for podiatry.'

As for our podiatry class (PMP), from what I understand it is much different than at any of the other schools (case based). This is what the pod faculty spent a lot of time and energy in putting together. However, it can sometimes take a back seat to our sciences classes. They claim we are learning stuff that other schools learn in 3rd to 4th year, but we have no way of knowing if that is true or not (i.e. the cases we worked up today were; ankle septic arthritis, medial subtalar dislocation with ankle osteoarthritis 10 yrs later, lateral ankle sprain, achilles tendon rupture, and ankle instability).

So it's kind of hard to answer your question perfectly, since none of us have ever attended another school -we have nothing to compare our curriculum to. Most of our faculty are young and come from Temple, CSPM, Ohio, and Scholl (btw, they know their stuff in-and-out, goes to prove that you can get a stellar education anywhere if you apply yourself). They are the ones claiming that we are getting a great podiatry education. I think when we get out on rotations we'll have a better idea of how good/bad our podiatry training is.

Perhaps we can get some more input from WaveOR or some of the 1st years who lurk on here .

 

[javajava]

Gimli, Son of Gloin

Lol Why

 

[air bud]

When do you guys take Lower Limb and biomechanics? I know in the past there was a thread that basically talked about some stuff at some school being taught too early, in essence trying to run before you can walk. I experienced a cool moment the other day when in our Pod Med Diagnostics class we discussed pre-dislocation syndrome. I picked up pieces here and there, but it wasnt until a few days later in LLA that I really understood the pathology. Last night I went back and reviewed the MPJ pathology lecture and was amazed at how much more sense it made.

 

[dyk343]

Interesting to learn about Western. Im curious as to what your Lower extremity anatomy course is like as well. Im only asking because I heard something about it in passing (person said its only going to be a couple lectures on the foot and ankle) when I was interviewing at another school. Is this true or is this person spreading false rumors?

 

[air bud]

we have had about 8 hours of lecture and 26 hours of dissection so far. First test was dorsum, second test was plantar and dorsum and 3rd test is leg and previous stuff.
Ours is pretty self taught, which is VERY different from other classes, but the "book" put together by the head guy is incredibly thorough.

 

[dyk343]

I know DMU has a different class schedule than most schools "block style" (thats at least my understanding of it) but at the end of the semester would you estimate LEA will be about 3hrs/week lecture w 3hrs/week dissection lab?
Or is it really mostly all self taught?

Anyone from AZPOD comment on LEA lecture times?

Im just curious how it works with the DO integrated courses.

 

[air bud]

we are done by spring break. It is more like 1 or 2 hours lecture, 8 hours lab per week. Yes, it really is self taught, but with the book being so complete, I actually like it like this. This only works for anatomy though. Blocks are great. We are in LLA and Pod Med Diagnostics from now til spring break. After that, we have a 6.5 hour class called Pod Med Biomechanics and Surgery, and that is all till the end on may 20 something.

Also, I don't think lecture has much of a point at this point. It really is to re-inforce some of the stuff you learn in lab. Lab is about really becoming intimately aware of the relationships between structures, something that lecture could never truly grasp.

Looking ahead from now til spring break, we basically have 1 or 2 hours of lecture per day with 2 hours dissection. 1 day per week we have no lab and maybe 2 or 3 hours of lecture. Thats it. I love it.

 

[darazon]

Anatomy is the very first basic science class that you take at Western. It is 2 weeks above the waist, 2 weeks below the waist, and 2 weeks H&N, each followed by an exam. This is a block class, meaning that it is the only major class that you take during this time. Each morning has a 3 hour lab and the afternoons can have 2-4 lectures hours. This is with the DO students.

LEA anatomy is also integrated into our PMP course throughout the next 2 years. Every time we work up a case, we review the anatomy and biomechanics along with the HPI, PE, diagnostic modalities, treatment etc. We also have had cadaver workshops and extra lectures on anatomy throughout the year.

The first years got hit with LEA anatomy right out of the gate even before they had it in gross anatomy.

I believe the post that you are referring to air bud is this one. It does some up how Western's learning style is different.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=778606

The answer to Feli's question in that post is that we take anatomy first.