CSU and UCSF?

monkey12315

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I'm currently a high school junior. My initial plan was to be on the premed track at San Francisco State University, which is a CSU, and then head onto UCSF when I graduate. I've recently learned that since UCSF is a prestigious medical, they will want students from other prestigious colleges. This had led to my decision to try and get accepted in UC Davis or UC Riverside, even though I doubt that I will get in. In the case that I don't get accepted to neither of them, I will go to S.F. State. I wondering if I still have a shot at getting accepted in UCSF if I do extremely well compared to someone from like, Stanford or a UC. Any advice?

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they will want students from other prestigious colleges. This had led to my decision to try and get accepted in UC Davis or UC Riverside, even though I doubt that I will get in.

It doesnt matter which undergrad you go to. Sure there will be ppl from Ivys applying, however, if your MCAT scores are excellent and your ECs are up to par, then you shouldnt have any problems. Plus, use going to a CSU an advantage. I myself am going to a CSU in the fall. Classes should be easier and classes smaller. We should be able to maintain a higher GPA. Don't get me wrong though, it would be challenging, however, it's not going to be as hard as an Ivy or some other "prestigious" college.
 
Thanks for the reply. You just gave me some hope. Even though I have a slim chance of getting into a UC, S.F. State should be able to give me the support I need. I'm planning to talk to an advisor at a community college so I can take classes over the summer to raise my GPA. I guess I'll have to wait and see what happens.
 
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You also need to understand that applying to medical school is a huge crap shoot. No one should really go in expecting to get into a single medical school - even super competitive applicants.

Go where you will be happy - do VERY well (like 3.9 GPA), do VERY well on the MCAT (34+) and follow your medically related passions to be an interesting applicant.

Even that won't guarantee you a spot at UCSF, which is probably the most competitive school in a state that only 1/4 of applicants get into.
 
You also need to understand that applying to medical school is a huge crap shoot. No one should really go in expecting to get into a single medical school - even super competitive applicants.

Go where you will be happy - do VERY well (like 3.9 GPA), do VERY well on the MCAT (34+) and follow your medically related passions to be an interesting applicant.

Even that won't guarantee you a spot at UCSF, which is probably the most competitive school in a state that only 1/4 of applicants get into.

As that said, and considering that all medical schools are hard to get in to, what would you say is the average stats for matriculants in medical schools across the country? thanks.
 
I'm a former adcom member (at a UC but not UCSF).

Coming from SFSU, admission to UCSF will be very difficult. Our acceptance rate for applicants coming from the CSU system was probably less than 2% (we might or might not accept an SFSU applicant in any given year), and we were not as selective as UCSF. It would probably require you to have most of the following:

GPA 3.95+
MCAT 37+
Published research
Very unique life experiences (grew up in a crack house or war zone, founded a company with 100+ employees, Olympic medalist, etc.)

Most high school students who will eventually end up at UCSF SOM are currently capable of getting into much better colleges than those in the CSU system. Unless you are going to be paying your own way, and your family has too much money to get you significant financial aid, shoot higher. Even a CC -> UC transfer route would be better (in my opinion, one of the best deals in college education).
 
....UCSF matriculates about 150 students each year. If ~50 are from the big two in the Bay Area, that leaves only 100 slots for the rest of the world, including the other UC's, Caltech, USC, the Claremont Colleges, the Cal States, and Calif residents who attended Ivy League and other top private colleges. Sure, UCSF does favor instate students, but the numbers actual are stark.

edit: my "source" on the students from Cal and Stanford were from blogs posted by former tour guides. Take it with a grain of salt.
 
....UCSF matriculates about 150 students each year. If ~50 are from the big two in the Bay Area, that leaves only 100 slots for the rest of the world, including the other UC's, Caltech, USC, the Claremont Colleges, the Cal States, and Calif residents who attended Ivy League and other top private colleges. Sure, UCSF does favor instate students, but the numbers actual are stark.

edit: my "source" on the students from Cal and Stanford were from blogs posted by former tour guides. Take it with a grain of salt.

And then again, undergrad doesn't matter that much. However, being a cali school, it's ridiculously hard to get in to. So like what others have mentioned, don't set ur mind to one school. Apply broadly.
 
If, academically, UCDavis and UCR would be 'extremely difficult' for you to get into, you should consider your study habits. If, in high school, obtaining the 3.4 and ~1700 SAT that makes you a qualified applicant to UCR seems impossible, you will REALLY have to step it up in order to have the stats required to get into UCSF after undergrad. I feel like maybe you don't realize how good of a school UCSF is?
 
It would probably require you to have most of the following:

GPA 3.95+
MCAT 37+
Published research
Very unique life experiences (grew up in a crack house or war zone, founded a company with 100+ employees, Olympic medalist, etc.)

I was a CSU graduate with only ONE of the four things on your list and still managed to get an interview at UCSF, and that's as an out-of-state applicant even though they prefer in-state.

OP: There are Harvard/Stanford/Yale/UC graduates who don't get into medical school. There are graduates from no-name colleges who do get into medical school. It's up to YOU, not the COLLEGE to get yourself in.

The name of your undergrad school matters much less than what you accomplish while you're there...

They use the same textbooks in Harvard as they do at SFSU, and tt doesn't take a Noble Laureate to teach general chemistry.
 
I will be going to SFSU in the fall and I'm really worried I won't get into any medical school in California (my home state).

But I kind of killed it for myself...
Currently, I have a 3.83 GPA and received a 1810 on the SATs (second time). But when application deadlines were around, I only applied to CSUs because I thought I wanted to be a registered nurse, not a doctor. Recently, I went through a sudden change and I am now very dedicated to becoming a doctor, but it's too late since I didn't apply to any UCs. :(

Oh well, I will make-do with what I have. I'm just really scared.
 
I was a CSU graduate with only ONE of the four things on your list and still managed to get an interview at UCSF, and that's as an out-of-state applicant even though they prefer in-state.

Are you nontraditional? Is that "one thing" the unique life experiences? A great life story can trump a lot of things, but I don't think it's practical for a typical CSU student, who wants to go to UCSF immediately following college, to create that life experience over those 4 years.
 
Unless you are a poor URM going to a CSU is gonna look really bad. While the exact name of your school doesn't matter too much, the "tier" does. CSU, while good colleges in many respects, aren't nearly the calibar of the UCs. They don't make many medical students. The fact you didn't manage to get into a UC for undergrad makes me doubt your ability to get into medical school, let alone UCSF. You might be better off gonig to a CC, then transfering to a UC school.

Also, UCSF doesn't accept 25% of applicants, its approximately 4% :laugh:
 
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I was a CSU graduate with only ONE of the four things on your list and still managed to get an interview at UCSF, and that's as an out-of-state applicant even though they prefer in-state.

OP: There are Harvard/Stanford/Yale/UC graduates who don't get into medical school. There are graduates from no-name colleges who do get into medical school. It's up to YOU, not the COLLEGE to get yourself in.

The name of your undergrad school matters much less than what you accomplish while you're there...

They use the same textbooks in Harvard as they do at SFSU, and tt doesn't take a Noble Laureate to teach general chemistry.


The fact you whent to a CSU, and then applied as out of state sugggests your a non-trad. I think this is really different than someone applying right out of college. As a nontrad you have actual life experience and accomplishments to show the adcoms. However, applying right out of college a bit part of your "life experience" is the school you have attended, and spent basically all of your adult life at.
 
I was a CSU graduate with only ONE of the four things on your list and still managed to get an interview at UCSF, and that's as an out-of-state applicant even though they prefer in-state.

OP: There are Harvard/Stanford/Yale/UC graduates who don't get into medical school. There are graduates from no-name colleges who do get into medical school. It's up to YOU, not the COLLEGE to get yourself in.

The name of your undergrad school matters much less than what you accomplish while you're there...

They use the same textbooks in Harvard as they do at SFSU, and tt doesn't take a Noble Laureate to teach general chemistry.

Yes there are Stanford grads that don't get into med school and state grads that get into Harvard/UCSF. There are exceptions to every rule, especially in medicine. To use these exceptions to claim that undergrad doesn't matter at all is ridiculous. It is not the only thing, or the most important thing, but it does matter.

And I agree that anyone who has trouble doing well enough to get into UC riverside will do well enough academically to shine so brightly at a CSU to get into UCSF without doing a complete 180.

OP. Go to a UC if possible, if not go to the CSU. Then kick ass in class, do research, do some unique and cool stuff and apply to med school. You probably won't get into UCSF (the odds for even the best applicants are very low, and theres a lot of randomness), but you probably will get into a good medschool, which is the most important thing.
 
...CSU, while good colleges in many respects, aren't nearly the calibar of the UCs. They don't make many medical students...

Sorry in advance for the rant, but you've touched a nerve...

You're right; they don't make many medical students.

Looking at this table it is clear that not many people from CSU's are applying to medical school. The table lists schools that supplied 100+ white applicants for the 2010 cycle, but also gives the total number of applicants (all ethnicities) from those schools.

The following UC's supplied 100+ white applicants for the 2010 cycle: Los Angeles, Berkeley, San Diego, Davis, Irvine). Stanford and USC also supplied 100+ white applicants each. Counting all ethnicities, these schools together supplied 3,205 of the applicants, which is about 7.5% of all applicants (or about 1 out of every 13 applicants nation wide).

According to MSAR data, UCSF matriculated 131 students out of 3,159 resident applicants from California. The base rate odds of matriculating as an in state applicant are therefore about 4%.

As I said, there were 3,205 applicants from just those seven schools above. If we momentarily assume that every single one of them applied to UCSF, then using the base rate for California applicants we'd assume that 0.04*3,205 = 133 of them would matriculate to UCSF. Just two more people than the 131 California residents who did matriculate.

Although I admit that this argument obviously makes some major assumptions, it is nonetheless statistically plausible for UCSF to fill all of its in-state seats with applicants from UCLA, UCB, UCSD, UCD, UCI, Stanford, and USC based solely on the fact that so many of the applicants merely happen to have come from those schools. It is not necessary to invoke some idea about these schools being "superior" to explain why their alumni are so common at UCSF (if that's even the case).

I was not able to find statistics showing how many AMCAS applicants come from CSU schools, but in the absence of more compelling data I feel that the most simple explanation for CSU alumni rarely being admitted to UCSF is that not many apply. I think that the burden of proof falls to those people who claim that CSU alumni are specifically at a disadvantage to show that this is due to admissions officials' opinions of the schools themselves, rather than the low rate of application.

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As separate matter, the median MCAT of accepted students to UCSF is 34. Why would UCSF require something like a 37+ from their CSU applicants?

If CSU's are really such inferior schools, then wouldn't a 34 from a CSU applicant be viewed as a greater badge of honor than for a UC student with the same MCAT score? If UC schools are really such high caliber schools, then isn't it just expected for a UC student to get a 34, and doesn't that make it more remarkable that a CSU student could achieve the same score despite the education that is presumed to be subpar?

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Furthermore, the argument that some of you folks are making is paradoxical. You're saying "If you go to SFSU then you can kiss UCSF goodbye." But at the same time, you're saying "A good life story and a year or two outside of college can trump anything." Which is it?! :p
 
I am a second pharmacy not medical student at UCSF and SF State grad myself, but hope to offer some perspective since I know a couple people/ have former classmates from SFSU getting into ucsf med.

Personaly, I think if you attend SFSU it will be one hell of a battle to prove to adcoms that you are worthy of uc acceptance be it school of pharmacy or school of medicine. They generally accept very few people to both med and pharm from sfsu, M3 has one person from SFSU, no one in the M2 class to mu knowledge and M1 class has one person from SFSU so simply statistically the odds are against you. Both of these individuals are older with a rich variety of diverse extracurricular activites, various community involvement, volunteer projects and a wide span of life experiences.

I definitely think you have significantly better chance if you go to a UC, UC will always prefer UC grads, for a state grad to get accepted you will have to have one heck of an application.
 
Sorry in advance for the rant, but you've touched a nerve...

You're right; they don't make many medical students.

Looking at this table it is clear that not many people from CSU's are applying to medical school. The table lists schools that supplied 100+ white applicants for the 2010 cycle, but also gives the total number of applicants (all ethnicities) from those schools.

The following UC's supplied 100+ white applicants for the 2010 cycle: Los Angeles, Berkeley, San Diego, Davis, Irvine). Stanford and USC also supplied 100+ white applicants each. Counting all ethnicities, these schools together supplied 3,205 of the applicants, which is about 7.5% of all applicants (or about 1 out of every 13 applicants nation wide).

According to MSAR data, UCSF matriculated 131 students out of 3,159 resident applicants from California. The base rate odds of matriculating as an in state applicant are therefore about 4%.

As I said, there were 3,205 applicants from just those seven schools above. If we momentarily assume that every single one of them applied to UCSF, then using the base rate for California applicants we'd assume that 0.04*3,205 = 133 of them would matriculate to UCSF. Just two more people than the 131 California residents who did matriculate.

Although I admit that this argument obviously makes some major assumptions, it is nonetheless statistically plausible for UCSF to fill all of its in-state seats with applicants from UCLA, UCB, UCSD, UCD, UCI, Stanford, and USC based solely on the fact that so many of the applicants merely happen to have come from those schools. It is not necessary to invoke some idea about these schools being "superior" to explain why their alumni are so common at UCSF (if that's even the case).

I was not able to find statistics showing how many AMCAS applicants come from CSU schools, but in the absence of more compelling data I feel that the most simple explanation for CSU alumni rarely being admitted to UCSF is that not many apply. I think that the burden of proof falls to those people who claim that CSU alumni are specifically at a disadvantage to show that this is due to admissions officials' opinions of the schools themselves, rather than the low rate of application.

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As separate matter, the median MCAT of accepted students to UCSF is 34. Why would UCSF require something like a 37+ from their CSU applicants?

If CSU's are really such inferior schools, then wouldn't a 34 from a CSU applicant be viewed as a greater badge of honor than for a UC student with the same MCAT score? If UC schools are really such high caliber schools, then isn't it just expected for a UC student to get a 34, and doesn't that make it more remarkable that a CSU student could achieve the same score despite the education that is presumed to be subpar?

---

Furthermore, the argument that some of you folks are making is paradoxical. You're saying "If you go to SFSU then you can kiss UCSF goodbye." But at the same time, you're saying "A good life story and a year or two outside of college can trump anything." Which is it?! :p

I have no issue with the CSU schools, I believe that the caliber of the students there is on average lower than at the UCs. I am sure most adcoms will agree with this. This means that its a lot easier to get good grades, and stand out at a CSU, meaning getting a 3.8 at CSUB is a lot easier than getting a 3.8 at any of the UC schools. This means it is harder for a CSU applicant to really prove to adcoms that they are suited for medical school.


Also, just to be clear, I'm not some elitist snob, I'm current going to community college. :p
 
I have no issue with the CSU schools, I believe that the caliber of the students there is on average lower than at the UCs. I am sure most adcoms will agree with this. This means that its a lot easier to get good grades, and stand out at a CSU, meaning getting a 3.8 at CSUB is a lot easier than getting a 3.8 at any of the UC schools. This means it is harder for a CSU applicant to really prove to adcoms that they are suited for medical school.


Also, just to be clear, I'm not some elitist snob, I'm current going to community college. :p

But then again, coupled with a good MCAT score, ur app should be pretty good. However, in the end, it depends on the adcoms on how they look at it. Some of them might be impressed that a student from a csu was able to maintain a good gpa and did as well as or even better than a UC student on the MCAT. Personally, I don't think it matters because like many ppl in this forum said, the MCAT is the great equilizer. If someone from a UC did manage to do well in their classes but not on the MCAT, it doesn't look so good and the person from the CSU might be favored. In the end, I think it really depends on the adcoms and how they interpret it.
 
As it was said here, if you have problems getting into UC Riverside, you need to change some of your habits. And, not wanting to offend anyone, I don't think SFSU will be the place to get the habits necessary to get in, and then have success in med school.

Plus, you're in highschool now, I remember I wanted to go to Columbia for med school, then do my residency at Mass Gen... What I mean is that as you grow up and mature, you will realize that your dreams now, may not be the same later on.


I would also like to know what are the statistics for how many SFSU students get into med school.

Note: try CSU long beach... I think it's one of the best in the CSU system.
 
....UCSF has favored non-trads for decades. 22-year-olds are a dime-a-dozen.
 
I think that the burden of proof falls to those people who claim that CSU alumni are specifically at a disadvantage to show that this is due to admissions officials' opinions of the schools themselves, rather than the low rate of application.

Like I said, I was on the admissions committee at a UC medical school, and this was indeed the case.
 
It will be relatively easier to shine as an undergrad at SFSU if you end up going there. Take advantage of some of the science research fellowships if research interests you. The chemistry department has some of the nicest professors around. Hit up their office hours. Apply to work as a tutor or instruct a science discussion section to get some nice teaching experience. A lot of the pre-med nontrads did this to pad their application.

Best of luck to you, whatever you choose.
 
It will be relatively easier to shine as an undergrad at SFSU if you end up going there. Take advantage of some of the science research fellowships if research interests you. The chemistry department has some of the nicest professors around. Hit up their office hours. Apply to work as a tutor or instruct a science discussion section to get some nice teaching experience. A lot of the pre-med nontrads did this to pad their application.

Best of luck to you, whatever you choose.

As a grad, I disagree with this statement - downplaying the reality won't really do OP any good.

I did all of the above you mentioned and it actually wasn't that easy to "get in on the action". The chemistry department (that I graduated from) has a limited number of professors willing to take in students to to research, professors maybe 1-2 students per professor per lab and you have to remember that these student's don't exactly rotate each year, so do the math and it's not like there are positions open everywhere. I got into one lab for a year and it was pretty hard to get in despite getting an excellent grade in the class and working for the professor before in the alternate position.

I also worked for the chemistry tutoring center, volunteered for the tutoring center, taught their chemistry workshops, taught a class in the biology department. SFSU has a ton of people desiring to "pat up" their application and not just for medicine but for other programs, also especially now that Dr. Rothman has established their nontrad to medicine program. So it's definitely an uphill battle to get a good solid EC type of activity at such an overcrowded school.
 
Well I did graudate in 2006 and I started when sfsu was $924 a semester. :eek: And I've been in the Midwest since then, so times have changed I guess.

I'm not blowing smoke up the OP's bum by saying it's totally impossible/totally doable. I've seen my nontrad and trad classmates get into med schools with good names, including ucsf. Other names off the top of my head included Cornell, wright state, USC, and that allo school in Oregon. Brb I need my coffee.

All I'm saying is that wherever the OP goes, do excellent work and don't hold your breath for any particular school, which is what plenty of others have said above.
 
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I think that the burden of proof falls to those people who claim that CSU alumni are specifically at a disadvantage to show that this is due to admissions officials' opinions of the schools themselves, rather than the low rate of application.

Like I said, I was on the admissions committee at a UC medical school, and this was indeed the case.

Well I was asking for something a bit more quantitative than your opinion, but even if it's the case then it's still ridiculous.

Choosing who gets into med school based on their undergraduate institution essentially leaves our nation's health system in the hands of undergraduate admissions offices, which are not staffed by the brightest bulbs.

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On a note that is not entirely unrelated:

I heard about someone who applied twice to USC's film school and didn't get in. He went to film school at a CSU instead. Here's his bio page, so you tell me: How good are these top-ranked schools at selecting their students? Answer: they do a $hitty job.
 
In my opinion, not ALL the UCs are better than the CSUs.

I was accepted at Cal Poly SLO, UC Riverside and UC Irvine for Biomedical Engineering and I plan on going to Cal Poly. Do you think med schools would look down on me if I went to Cal Poly (which, imo, has a more prestigious engineering department than most of the UCs) even though it's a CSU?
 
In my opinion, not ALL the UCs are better than the CSUs.

I was accepted at Cal Poly SLO, UC Riverside and UC Irvine for Biomedical Engineering and I plan on going to Cal Poly. Do you think med schools would look down on me if I went to Cal Poly (which, imo, has a more prestigious engineering department than most of the UCs) even though it's a CSU?

SLO is kind of an exception... I'm sure you still have a shot but be realistic. UCSF interviews only 500 of their applicants and accepts around 250 after waitlist movement (or so the Dean told me when I interviewed). So I would say planning on getting into the school isn't realistic regardless of what school you go to.

I did not meet a CSU student at any of my interviews, so I would say go to a UC, but I know no solid facts.
 
UCSF totally ****** itself out to students from prestigious schools. It's their way of looking good. (OMG> WE HAVE TWELVE STUDENTS FROM HARVARD, FIFTEEN FROM STANFORD)

Go to CSU.

You will be a better human being in the long run. Seriously.
 
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