CT fellowship Comparisons

[foxtrot]

I am thinking of doing a CT fellowship in the future and wanted to get input from those of you who have completed the fellowship. I was looking at some of the websites and it seems like Cleveland Clinic has a good program with an excellent TEE pass rate. I just don't want to end up at a program where you are just being used like another glorified resident. Obviously there is some of that in any program but some are worse than others. Any input would be appreciated.

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[coprolalia]

Have heard good things about Cleveland Clinic as well. And, have worked with a Cleveland Clinic-trained anesthesiologist in residency who was really good.

Good luck. This is one (of the two) fellowships, if you have to do a fellowship, I would recommend doing. The other being Peds.

-copro

 

[racerx]

Have heard good things about Cleveland Clinic as well. And, have worked with a Cleveland Clinic-trained anesthesiologist in residency who was really good.

Good luck. This is one (of the two) fellowships, if you have to do a fellowship, I would recommend doing. The other being Peds.

-copro

Hey Cop,

In your opinion, what are the pros and cons of doing a peds fellowship?

Thx

 

[coprolalia]

Hey Cop,

In your opinion, what are the pros and cons of doing a peds fellowship?

Thx

I think the pro's are that you get extra training in taking care of sick, tiny babies. You get an extra year of training, and generally the pay for specialty-trained pediatric anesthesiologists is quite good.

The downside is that you have to deal with kids, parents of kids, and people who take care of kids... all of whom can be quite crotchety... pretty much all the time.

Peds floats some people's boats. I took care of plenty of sick babies in residency (including hearts). Just didn't float my boat.

-copro

 

[proman]

Don't forget that groups hiring a peds trained anesthesiologist gets the marketing edge. Can help the group negotiate and the hospital advertise "fellowship trained pediatric anesthesiologist" even if you don't do the sick NICU babies.

 

[foxtrot]

Have heard good things about Cleveland Clinic as well. And, have worked with a Cleveland Clinic-trained anesthesiologist in residency who was really good.

Good luck. This is one (of the two) fellowships, if you have to do a fellowship, I would recommend doing. The other being Peds.

-copro

Yeah, I think Cleveland Clinic is kind of the "gold standard" in regard to training programs. I do agree that CT anesthesia is a good way to go with regard to anesthesia fellowships. Having the opportunity to be echo boarded is huge.

 

[maceo]

i actually think its a waste of time.. yuou take a 300 thousand dollar hit .. you really dont get paid any more than the others and doing a heart aint that hard... that you need a fellowship truly.

 

[seinfeld]

Good luck. This is one (of the two) fellowships, if you have to do a fellowship, I would recommend doing. The other being Peds.

-copro

I disagree, neither gives you the option of being another doc altogether like critical care or pain does. With peds and cardiac in the end you are still only an anesthesiologist. As far as TEE goes, i am in the process of being certified in my hospital to read them officially, already doing them for the surgeons. ONly in saturated markets will being TEE certified matter, the actual skills are more important and as maceo states dont need fellowship to do PP cardiac.

 

[coprolalia]

I disagree, neither gives you the option of being another doc altogether like critical care or pain does.

Well, this is clearly true. I can't argue that these fellowships get doors opened to you outside of the regular "scope of practice" of a garden-variety anesthesiologist... like myself.

With peds and cardiac in the end you are still only an anesthesiologist. As far as TEE goes, i am in the process of being certified in my hospital to read them officially, already doing them for the surgeons. ONly in saturated markets will being TEE certified matter, the actual skills are more important and as maceo states dont need fellowship to do PP cardiac.

I don't like to think of myself as "only an anesthesiologist". I already do a lot more than "just an anesthesiologist"... even this short in my career... a lot more than I thought I would do before I finished residency.

The last class who can get full certification for TEE without doing a fellowship is the one that just finished residency in June: mine. I think being fully board-certified in TEE - along with the fellowship - has a lot of merit and will continue to prove to be relevant.

Peds anesthesiologists - same thing.

It all depends on what you want. The critical care market is woefully under-financed and many don't appreciate its worth to the patient or the hospital (read that administrators - $$$), and it is mostly the domain of medicine docs who are willing (at least right now) to take a lot less in terms of pay in comparison.

Pain... forget it being opened to physiatrists and neurologists... IM, FP, and other disciplines are getting into pain programs now. The reimbursements will go down. And, currently there is a "stain" on pain management offices, like what's happening in Florida, being illegitimate pill-pushing fronts for people looking to score prescription meds. I think there's going to be big changes in chronic pain management over the next couple of years... and none of them are going to be good.

Think about your future. Much like when you went into residency and chose to be an anesthesiologist, what fellowship (if any) will keep you at the forefront of your field... and maximize your earning potential while (hopefully) loving what you do.

-copro

 

[SleepIsGood]

I'm not even thinking of a CT fellowship...if I were...there would be only on place..

Cleveland Clinic

In addition to the academics ...the facilities are PHENOMENAL!

 

[foxtrot]

I'm not even thinking of a CT fellowship...if I were...there would be only on place..

Cleveland Clinic

In addition to the academics ...the facilities are PHENOMENAL!

Back to the question at hand, does anyone else know of any other strong CT fellowships (other than the Cleveland Clinic)?

 

[proman]

Columbia, Duke, Emory, Hopkins, Penn are some strong East Coast programs. But, do you really want to do a cardiac fellowship after already having done pain? That's kind of painful.

 

[Globulinus]

Emory, Duke, Columbia - yes.
Hopkins?donno... CT fellow last year put 5-6 thoracic epidurals?? Could be a red flag..
Cleveland - talk to attendings(2), who finished program. they both would choose go to a different program now...yes, both of them are great, but there is something else about CC..

 

[tiguak]

i interviewed at the CC and BWH and THI after residency. i ended up picking the texas heart institute for several reasons. while the CC program is nice, i was not thrilled to do a month of cvicu, the location around the CC is dumpy and not really safe, and the weather sucks. they did have a strong rep, great echo training, and really hot nurses. i came from mgh so i was more interested in trying a new city, hence bwh was out. THI was great for the rep, strength of the program (fellows get 1-3 hrts a day, no cvicu month, 1-2 months of echo, 1 month of thoracic at md anderson, 1 month of pedi hearts at texas childrens), great weather, nice locations to live around the medical center, and a diverse group of attendings that trained elsewhere. doing a cv fellowship is a great choice. while you lose a years income at the backend, you gain a lifetime of confidence in your abilities to handle difficult cases and it helps your job search afterwards. i know my group would rather hire a fellow than someone straight out of residency all things being equal.

 

[Bertelman]

i interviewed at the CC and BWH and THI after residency. i ended up picking the texas heart institute for several reasons. while the CC program is nice, i was not thrilled to do a month of cvicu, the location around the CC is dumpy and not really safe, and the weather sucks. they did have a strong rep, great echo training, and really hot nurses. i came from mgh so i was more interested in trying a new city, hence bwh was out. THI was great for the rep, strength of the program (fellows get 1-3 hrts a day, no cvicu month, 1-2 months of echo, 1 month of thoracic at md anderson, 1 month of pedi hearts at texas childrens), great weather, nice locations to live around the medical center, and a diverse group of attendings that trained elsewhere. doing a cv fellowship is a great choice. while you lose a years income at the backend, you gain a lifetime of confidence in your abilities to handle difficult cases and it helps your job search afterwards. i know my group would rather hire a fellow than someone straight out of residency all things being equal.

Houston? I'd say that's a pretty subjective assessment. Offhand, I can think of two occasions in the last decade when UT-H flooded. The first time erased years and years of research data and animals.

Disasters aside, it's damn hot and muggy.

 

[tiguak]

true, but after the cold winters in boston and chicago it was really nice down there. cheap cost of living and plenty or rentals near the medical center. plus those surgeons are really fast so you're prepared for private practice (no more 6+ hr cabgs, most are 3 hrs). the only weird part is running the pump this is the only place i've seen where anesthesia tells the pump tech what to do (run the pump up, flows +/-, come off pump) rather than the having the surgeon run the pump.

 

[Bertelman]

true, but after the cold winters in boston and chicago it was really nice down there. cheap cost of living and plenty or rentals near the medical center. plus those surgeons are really fast so you're prepared for private practice (no more 6+ hr cabgs, most are 3 hrs). the only weird part is running the pump this is the only place i've seen where anesthesia tells the pump tech what to do (run the pump up, flows +/-, come off pump) rather than the having the surgeon run the pump.

So much for crosswords and coffee.

 

[DOme2009]

anesthesia pre-op clinic here at UT Houston gets 20-25 patients in clinic any given day - this past month, we got about 2-3 adult hearts per day and we got about 3-4 open heart peds per week. the CT attendings are all pretty cool, and willing to teach if they're not busy. the only downside (for me, at least) is getting a hold of someone on friday afternoons because most CT attendings are gone for the day before 2:30 on fridays (not a lot of heart cases scheduled on fridays i guess).

and as someone who has lived in Houston for about 17+ years i can safely assure you that the weather does suck for the most part - esp bad during the summers. however, the winters are pretty mild (high 20's/low 30's for a couple nights). cost of living is low and the med center is pretty amazing - fair trade-off considering it could be a lot worse.

 

[usnavdoc]

true, but after the cold winters in boston and chicago it was really nice down there. cheap cost of living and plenty or rentals near the medical center. plus those surgeons are really fast so you're prepared for private practice (no more 6+ hr cabgs, most are 3 hrs). the only weird part is running the pump this is the only place i've seen where anesthesia tells the pump tech what to do (run the pump up, flows +/-, come off pump) rather than the having the surgeon run the pump.

I dont know how uncommon that is. The Fellows run the pump here as well. As do residents with their attendings present.

 

[FlacoFlo]

very surprised no one has mentioned Mayo Clinic (in Rochester). Huge case volume (as much as other large volume centers- THI, CC, etc...), more TEE than any other program, TTE experience also, and work more in the supervisory role than a glorified resident. I'd put it up against any other place in the US. Granted Rochester, MN is much of a big city but the education opportunities are unmatched.

 

[2win]

very surprised no one has mentioned Mayo Clinic (in Rochester). Huge case volume (as much as other large volume centers- THI, CC, etc...), more TEE than any other program, TTE experience also, and work more in the supervisory role than a glorified resident. I'd put it up against any other place in the US. Granted Rochester, MN is much of a big city but the education opportunities are unmatched.

To much "self esteem" for the program. Not worth it.

 

[Bertelman]

very surprised no one has mentioned Mayo Clinic (in Rochester). Huge case volume (as much as other large volume centers- THI, CC, etc...), more TEE than any other program, TTE experience also, and work more in the supervisory role than a glorified resident. I'd put it up against any other place in the US. Granted Rochester, MN is much of a big city but the education opportunities are unmatched.

Sounds lik you're saying it's "second to none".

 

[2win]

Haha. I can't believe those resident b*tches were dropping that line in that other thread. They have trained at only one program.

Mayo is a dead legend. For fyuckers from abroad.
And when they show up for the interview - oh men... "I am from Mayo .." like they expect that the job is already there for them......You Mayo dudes just check the reality from time to time....
What do you think - are you better than Cleveland or another crappy place? IThe only think that I admire you is because of filling up the stupid application online. Just a pain in the butt.
Hey Mayo people - do you intubate better than others? Can you share?

 

[militarymd]

I knew someone from Mayo once...

He started every sentence with "At Mayo, we would....."

One day, after his "At Mayo, we would..." line, I replied with "well, at Guantanamo Bay Naval Hospital, WE would...."....that made him stop for the day.

 

[2win]

You work there?

Oh now-----they didn't pay me enough. I was to the interview, I have friends that they worked there - I just hoped that they step up the reimbursement, and like all of us dreamers "Mayo" sounded great...
Overall - for the benjamins it's not worth it. (PLUS LOCATION , WHETHER...)
I know that at Mayo..........
On the other side look at UW - really good team. A good attitude. And we have a poster who's there.

 

[foxtrot]

I knew someone from Mayo once...

He started every sentence with "At Mayo, we would....."

One day, after his "At Mayo, we would..." line, I replied with "well, at Guantanamo Bay Naval Hospital, WE would...."....that made him stop for the day.

What's the deal with that? As a resident I had several attendings from Mayo who also always used to start a sentence with "At Mayo, this is how we would do it...yada yada yada." It got on my f^%*ing nerves, which is why I can't stand Mayo to this day. I am sure there are great docs there but the ones I have met at meetings and as a resident where arrogant POS's.

 

[deleted50478]

What's the deal with that? As a resident I had several attendings from Mayo who also always used to start a sentence with "At Mayo, this is how we would do it...yada yada yada." It got on my f^%*ing nerves, which is why I can't stand Mayo to this day. I am sure there are great docs there but the ones I have met at meetings and as a resident where arrogant POS's.

At Mayo, we clean the code browns (instead of the nurses assistants) because at mayo, people's sh-t doesn't stink.

At mayo, we don't use electric light because the sun shines out of our a-ses.

 

[2win]

At Mayo, we clean the code browns (instead of the nurses assistants) because at mayo, people's sh-t doesn't stink.

At mayo, we don't use electric light because the sun shines out of our a-ses.

 

[ProRealDoc]

If you have any questions just go to the society of cardiovascular anesthesiologists and look up the programs there.

Here's the website:
http://www.scahq.org/


Here are the accredited fellowship programs:

http://www.scahq.org/sca3/cardiothoracic/acgme-programs.iphtml

 

[Varmit22]

Mayo anesthesiology residents tears cure cancer.

Too bad we never cry.

 

[cfdavid]

At my first interview, the Chairman of the department told me he pays his CC boarded anesthesiologists more than the non-CC trained dudes/dudettes.

Granted, I understand that the PP world is quite a different animal. But, it was straight from the Chairman's mouth. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

cf

 

[sethco]

Mayo anesthesiology residents tears cure cancer.

Too bad we never cry.

You better watch out, Chuck Norris is coming to kick your a@*

 

[FlacoFlo]

At the General (MGH) we do it like this.... At the Brigham we do it like this..... At Hopkins we do it like this..... At UCSF we do it like this..... At Northwestern we do it like this.... Many programs graduates get into the habit of this!!!!
I cannot speak to your experiences with any Mayo anesthesiology grad but many the residents and staff are very easy going and always willing to help. There is little arrogance here that may be found at other top residency programs. The anesthesiology dept, like many other in the US, has areas which could use improvement, however 99% of the staff treat res & fellows like colleagues and are eager to teach. This results in a good learning environment for residents and fellows. The CT fellowship is a high quality experience. That said, there are many "great CT" fellowship programs out there. Choose a place you will be happy with because ultimately, it is you who will be there for a year of fellowship. If you dont think Mayo is a place for you then no worries because its a great place to learn anesthesiology for those who do choose to...