Culture Shock :)

[MillersGirl60]

Hello!

I have been trying to find some info on here about going to vet school in Australia, but all the info I've found are on threads that are 3+ years old.

I am seriously considering going to veterinary school in Australia. I live (and always have lived) in California, so it would be a little culture shock but I think it would be a wonderful adventure!

Just wondering if anyone has any experience in this area. Advice as far as student visas, overseas moving, etc. I am married and we have two dogs and two cats.

We are realistic, we know it would cost THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS, we'd just love to get some fresh, relevant info from people who've been there. Polite comments are greatly appreciated!

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[Trematode]

Message sunshinevet. I know she went (or is going to) a vet school in Australia.

I do not have a whole lot of advice to offer because I am not American nor have I attended a school internationally, but I would like to say that it is incredibly expensive compared to going to an instate school. Sunshinevet told me that a lot of people wind up having to specialize in order to have an easier time paying off the debt they accumulate. Also, the cost of living is much higher down there: I believe housing, groceries and goods are a lot more expensive than they are in North America (if you get in contact with sunshine, she should be able to give you an idea)

You could always go into vet school here and look into internships and work abroad. I know a vet student who worked in New Zealand last spring and another who did a small trip to Central America.

 

[GeekOut4Animals]

hello there!

I am heading to Perth, Australia in february to start the vet program at Murdoch. The application process is simple, just an application, a personal statement, a CV, transcripts, and references. I spent 30 dollars to send in all my application material included a printed version of their 2page application. And I got accepted without a bachelors from the US and I get to go straight into the vet degree. Next you have to apply for US financial aid and Grad Plus loans. Tuition is about 45,000 a year which is comparable to a lot of out of state US schools for me. BUT I didn't have to take the GRE or pay for the US application cycles at all. After that you apply for the visa. This is a student visa and you can add your husband to your student visa so you only have one visa charge or depending on what career he is in, you can look into getting a skilled migrant visa in which you might be able to get Australia tuition. I am not sure. you can only apply for the student visa 4months before your start date and then they may request state and fbi background checks which can take up to 12weeks of processing. there is a lot of information about visas on the Australian immigration website. OH and you will need to show evidence of your relationship too. and in order to apply for the visa you need Overseas Student Health coverage for all 5 years of the program.

I am still waiting a decision on my visa approval, but if all goes well I should be leaving on Jan. 30 with my boyfriend of 5 years. Classes start February of each year, but take applications 4 times a year. Umm that is all I can think of right now, but if you have more questions just send me a message.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

 

[sunshinevet]

Hi there!!! I am a local student about to start my final year at Murdoch.

Coming to vet school in Australia IS very expensive. Tuition alone is around 45,000 a year x 5 years, and then you have your living expenses on top of it. If you come here on a student visa, both you and your partner can only work 20 hours a week, so you ability to reduce your debt load is limited. Getting a skilled migrant visa is VERY difficult, as our rate of unemployment is so low. I would encourage you to not include that in your plans for coming to vet school in Australia, and I have not known one single student to have their tuition changed to Australian student tuition. In fact I would strongly question whether or not it IS actually possible, as when you accept your position, you accept it for a certain level of funding, and there would have to be another position open for you to "transfer" into.

Ie, if you started the degree as an international fee paying student and then became a permanent resident (which is extremely hard as there are special clauses applying to students to PREVENT them from being able to do that...) and you then try to have your tuition changed to a commonwealth supported student (like I am) you effectively give up your international student spot and then apply for a commonwealth supported spot - WHICH IS NOT NESSERCERRILY THERE. So you may end up without a spot in the veterinary course. Does that make sense? its a bit complicated...

The cost of living in perth is very very expensive compared to the US. Cheap rent here would come to approx 1200/month, not including water/electricity/gas/internet (and it WILL cost you more than that given how many pets you have!). I pay $80/month internet, $100/month electricity, $50/month for my phone. Food is apparently more expensive too - my partner and I would spend $100+/week on groceries (we eat quite well and he has a "real" job) not including eating out at all... dinner at the pub would cost us around $90, and that would only be counting 1-2 drinks each... Clothes are also v expensive apparently (see the rant here thread for comments about modcloth )

I would say one of the biggest hurdles you'll have is bringing your animals. Less than 6% of rental properties in perth accept pets, and you WILL have to offer them more money per week to get someone to accept you with two cats and two dogs. You are almost definatley going to have to live a fair way from the uni to accomodate them. It sucks, its just that the perth rental market is so damn tight. Even without pets rentals are practically a bidding war with whoever offers the most money getting the property. Very annoying for students!

Aside from that most of the comments people make regarding moving is how expensive services etc are (I pay nearly $100 for a hair cut... not an expensive one by any means!) and how "slow" everything apparently is Apparently getting stuff done is much slower and our shops etc are not open any where near as long.

Dont forget that you will also be doing classes with students straight out of high school. If you don't like it, dont come They tend to be extremely mature students (most of the drama in my class is caused by students who are now nearly 30!) but inevitably some "mature aged" people complain - it is our system, it works well, if you don't think you'd like it or be willing to work with your younger peers, definately don't come to an australian school.

Feel free to PM me with any other questions etc, I can't answer too much on the precise bits of moving etc but can answer many other questions.

 

[Lady Wombat]

Hi, while I'm not an international student I do live in Australia so I hope I can be of some help with some general info.

There are 7 veterinary schools in Australia but not all accept international students. I know that The University of Melbourne, The University of Sydney, The University of Queensland and Murdoch University accept international students and all have a good reputation for producing good veterinary graduates (I have applied to all of these schools for entry in 2013). As you are from the US you probably want to attend a school that is accredited by the AVMA so you can practice in the US, all of the universities I have mentioned are the only AVMA accredited veterinary science courses in Australia (Queensland was just accredited a couple of months ago). You also should be aware that most of the veterinary science courses in Australia are bachelor degrees and many students come straight from high school so you will be studying with a mix of younger and older students. The University of Melbourne and The University of Adelaide are the only 2 universities to offer the Doctor of Veterinary Medicine after completion of an undergraduate degree however I am not certain if Adelaide takes international students.

Studying vet in Australia can be very expensive if you are an international student (upwards of $40,000 a year I believe but this can vary between institutions). You need to also remember that apart from high tuition fees you need to be able to support yourself while studying and Australia is not a cheap country to live, food and rent can be quite expensive. My brother has only recently returned from a couple of months at Maryland University and he seemed to think food and rent was much cheaper over there compared to Australia. My Masters supervisor had a US student studying under his supervision and she had to drop our less than 6 months in because she didn't realise how expensive it was going to be living in Australia so you really need to be sure you can afford to study here, you don't want to drop out after you have already made the expensive move to Australia.

All that being said Australia is a beautiful place to live. I can't speak for the whole of Australia but both Melbourne and Sydney are cosmopolitan cities with lots of things to do and see. I also feel that generally people in Australia are a welcoming bunch to international visitors.

From my experience of living in inner Melbourne we have a fairly good public transport system (depending on where you live), I find commuting to the Uni of Melbourne really easy, I just hop on a tram which takes me right out the front of the uni. Melbourne uni is also good because it's basically located in the heart of the city so everything is really easy to access. Things change a bit in the 3rd year of the DVM program when you move out to the Werribee campus (it's located about 45mins-1 hour out of Melbourne) but the campus is accessible by public transport or I'm sure people carpool out there. Renting in Melbourne can be quite expensive. Just like Perth finding a place in Melbourne that takes pets is really difficult, that being said I'm sure you could find somewhere it just may take some time.

I hope I have been of some help, if you have any more questions don't hesitate to ask.

 

[russellang]

On a related note, do you guys think applying for an internship/residency after graduating from a vet school in the states is possible? I always wanted to live over there but realized that it would be wise to go to school in the states and live very cheaply and then apply for a internship/residency after graduation. I am in my first year of school in the states and hope to apply for something like that for post graduation. I am not sure how competitive these spots are for international students though.

 

[Lady Wombat]

On a related note, do you guys think applying for an internship/residency after graduating from a vet school in the states is possible? I always wanted to live over there but realized that it would be wise to go to school in the states and live very cheaply and then apply for a internship/residency after graduation. I am in my first year of school in the states and hope to apply for something like that for post graduation. I am not sure how competitive these spots are for international students though.

Hi,

I don’t know about Murdoch but both Melbourne and Sydney offer clinical residencies to qualified veterinarians however only Melbourne takes international students into their residency program (for Sydney’s program you need to either be an Australian citizen or a permanent resident). Melbourne’s program is three years in duration and is comprised of two components: a Masters of Veterinary Science (Clinical) and a Master of Veterinary Studies. The program is available in the following disciplines: Anaesthesia, Clinical Pathology, Diagnostic Imaging, Emergency and Critical Care, Equine Medicine, Equine Surgery, Small Animal Medicine, Small Animal Surgery, Neurology and Dairy Cattle Medicine.

I’m not sure about the fees involved in undertaking a residency at Melbourne if you’re an international student but I’ve found the veterinary science faculty to be very helpful so I’m sure if you sent them an email about the fee structure they would be happy to oblige.

As to your question about competitiveness I’m not sure but I personally think that places would be competitive, from what I have read you would definitely need to have a high GPA in your veterinary studies to get accepted. Once again however I would suggest emailing the faculty.

For more detailed information on Melbourne’s residency course I suggest you give this a read http://vh.unimelb.edu.au/residency/index.html

I hope this is of some help.

 

[shortnsweet]

UQ!

Gosh I wish it had been accredited when I was applying....went there in undergrad and fell in love with everything Aussie.

Settled for Scotland

 

[MillersGirl60]

My goodness, I really need to try to keep up these threads better!

After more research, it's looking like Murdoch might be the school for me.

We've decided that the kitties would stay at home with my husband's parents, so we would just take our two dogs. Is there a more rural, dog friendly area within biking range of the school (five miles or less) that might be somewhat affordable? Where we live now is very non pet friendly, but we were fortunate enough to find a wonderful landlord who loves our dogs.

I'm excited to apply in March, just to see what happens! I have 2500+ hours of varied experience (work + volunteer) and a two-year degree. You never know!

Why is the program five years instead of four? Does anyone know the breakdown at Murdoch, as far as what is the focus of the first year, second year, etc.? One of the vet's I've worked for went to vet school at UC Davis, he said the first two years there are all books (no hands on) and that after that they work in the school's hospital. I'm looking for a more hands-on experience (also, I really have no interest in doing research).

How many references were required? What's the limit, if any? What is a CV? Can you tell me a bit more about the process of filing for a student visa? You said I could add my husband onto the visa, would that only be if he were a student as well or is there some kind of student-spouse option? As far as evidence of our relationship, does a marriage certificate work or do we need something more (photos, emails)?

Thank you so much for your help, everyone! Happy New Year!

 

[GeekOut4Animals]

i answered some of these questions on the other thread i believe! but i know I missed why it is a 5 year program!

i actually really like the idea of 5 years because i feel like 4 is not enough. we are not studying human medicine which is 4 years for one species. We are learning as many species as we possibly can and I feel an extra year would only be beneficial. You get 4 years of study plus one whole year doing clinical rotations. Someone who has been through the course already like SunshineVet can tell you specifically what you learn, but from what I have gathered through the Murdoch website and through other student blogs, I know you have to do 12 weeks of farm practical experience at sites off-campus to get hands-on handling experience before 4th or 5th year (someone can clarify how soon you have to get those extramural studies done). I also know that the first two and a half years will be lots of bookwork, buut you get to completely skin and dissect an entire greyhound starting the first week of anatomy lab! Just you and 3-4 other people at your lab bench get like 9 weeks to really learn anatomy hands on! then i believe the second two and a half years of the program get more clinical based (still classroom, but probably more applicable) thats all i can assume for now and hopefully someone who has been through it can give you better more substantial advice. I am really excited for farm practicals! I read one girls blog where she went to a free range piggery! I wanna go to that one! An Alpaca farm, and one girl went to a cattle ranch that herded the cattle on horseback! Neat stories! Highly recommend finding those blogs!

Also you have to remember Murdoch doing a 5 year program you are technically getting two bachelors degrees from murdoch. Also Australian students go into the program right out of highschool and its a 6 year program for them if they get accepted into the Vet part right away. Here in the US we go to 4 years undergrad to see if we can handle college course loads and then have to go and do an additional 4 years of vet med. 8 years total for us here in the US. just a comparison.

I also really want to go to Australia because i feel like their educational standards are higher than the US. I say this because Murdoch is accredited in North American, the European Union, and Australia and some of Asia like Hong Kong I believe; whereas, US Vet Schools are ONLY accredited in the US. If you graduate from a US institution you can NOT go to another counntry to practice without taking soeme $8,000 exam that apparently most people fail their first time! I would much rather pay to go to an institution with more accreditations and be able to choose a place to practice rather than limit myself from the get-go. just my personal preference!

Again, as much as I really do not wannt to pay for a 5th year of education, I know it is more beneficial in the long run to have 4 years of learning and one full year of clinical rotations vs cramming all the knowledge into 3 years of classroom study and a clinical year. maybe thats why us Americans are soo high strung! hahahaha

feel free to askkk more questions! i do not know how much more knowledge i have though!

 

[bunnity]

sunshinevet can probably talk about this better than me, but I think the 5 years is because it's designed for students in a different educational system. I'm not sure if that extra year is really vet stuff or if it's stuff you already covered in undergrad.

Also, being accredited in more countries doesn't mean the education is better. It could easily also mean that students studying in Australia are more likely to practice in other countries post graduation than students studying in the USA; therefore there is a reason to get multiple types of accreditation.

 

[sunshinevet]

sunshinevet can probably talk about this better than me, but I think the 5 years is because it's designed for students in a different educational system. I'm not sure if that extra year is really vet stuff or if it's stuff you already covered in undergrad.

Also, being accredited in more countries doesn't mean the education is better. It could easily also mean that students studying in Australia are more likely to practice in other countries post graduation than students studying in the USA; therefore there is a reason to get multiple types of accreditation.

Basically this.

The accreditation in UK/Europe is purely because we are a commonwealth nation. No other reason. The schooling is not "better" or anything - in fact, many schools in the US have facilities I would KILL for, that are just not readily avaliable in AUSTRALIA, let alone one specific school.

The fifth year is because we are undergraduate. There are quite a few subjects covered in the vet course that are not really covered in the US DVM as they are usually prereqs. As for the hands on stuff - I would be seriously surprised if many other schools in the US did not offer similar anatomy experiences. If anything, judging from other peoples experiences on here, I think we actually spend LESS time in anatomy lab - only 4 hours per week - than many US schools.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that you actually don't learn any more than you would in the DVM degree. I think people in the DVM degree also do more contact hours than us for the first two years, hence its just condensed - ie, first 2 1/2 years of the degree you only spend 20-25hrs/week at uni.

 

[GeekOut4Animals]

I just meant higher standards of education because if the US was considered equivalent in terms of vet medicine then it would be accredited in other nations. Accreditation is given if the knowledge learnt at both institutions in both countries are felt to be equivalent. I am by no means saying that veterinarians from the US are any less qualified, I don't mean to offend. I was just stating my personal opinion on the topic like I stated before.

 

[sunshinevet]

This is the course structure:

YEAR ONE:

Anatomy I and II
Physiology I and II
Biochemistry
Animal Systems I (agriculture, animal handling etc)
Veterinary Professional Life I (don't kill yourself).

YEAR TWO:
Immunology
Microbiology
Parasitology
Nutrition and Toxicology
Processes in Animal Disease
Animal Systems II (behaviour and ethics maybe?)
Veterinary professional life II

YEAR THREE:
first semester:
Clinical pathology
Pharmacology
Animal Systems III
Veterinary Professional Life III

Second semester: This is the start of the BVMS degree and the clinical years:
Anaesthesia, Emergency and Critical Care
Introduction to Surgery
Diagnostic Imaging
Small Animal General Practice

YEAR FOUR:
Equine Medicine and Surgery
Small Animal Surgery
Reproduction and Obstectrics
Small Animal Medicine
Small Ruminant Medicine and Surgery
Intensive Industries (Pigs and chickens)
Wildlife and Zoo Animal medicine
Cattle and Camelids Medicine and Surgery
Veterinary Professional Life IV

FIFTH YEAR:
24 weeks core rotations through the Uni hospital
12 weeks of streaming rotations (LA, equine, mixed, SA, wildlife, researchetc)

Before the end of 3rd year sem 1, you must complete 6 weeks of farm prac through the uni.
After the middle of 3rd year, and before the end of 5th year, you must complete 14 weeks of clinical placements at other vet clinics, arranged through the uni.
Both these placement types occur in your holidays and you do not get renumerated for them.

 

[sunshinevet]

I just meant higher standards of education because if the US was considered equivalent in terms of vet medicine then it would be accredited in other nations. Accreditation is given if the knowledge learnt at both institutions in both countries are felt to be equivalent. I am by no means saying that veterinarians from the US are any less qualified, I don't mean to offend. I was just stating my personal opinion on the topic like I stated before.

Haha, you haven't offended me - I just think thats a bit of a wonky view on accreditation. Any vet school accredited in Australia by the Australian accreditation committee is automatically granted accredition by the UK and commonwealth, because we have a reciprocal agreement. That is the ONLY reason. We have European accreditiation because of the agreements that the UK has as part of being in the EU. That is the ONLY reason. Our extra accreditations are ONLY because of politics - neither commonwealth or european veterinary bodies have actually assessed and accredited our schools - it is granted out of political politeness because we never fought a war of independance lol!!!

On the other hand, why would American schools go through the lengthy and extremely expensive process to gain commonwealth accreditation? They have nothing to gain from it. The reality behind Australian schools having AVMA accreditation is just so they can make heaps more money off north american students. American schools already get tonnes of American money, they have nothing to gain.

Accreditation has nothing to do with equivilancy. Murdoch didn't gain AVMA accred because it was deemed "equivilent" - it gained it because they spend an absolute boatshed of money and jumped through some pretty ridiculous hoops and changed TINY things about the campus. The actual education did not change in the slightest - it was already equivilant. Accred is extremely expensive to get, time consuming and annoying, so there HAS to be a good reason to pursue it.

 

[GeekOut4Animals]

Back to one of the other questions:

A CV (a curriculum vitae) is a very detailed resume of sorts. I added work experience, volunteering, and schooling sections. My school section was about certain relevant classes and cool things i got to do in labs, work was shadowing and animal related jobs. I also added explanations to really neat things I got to see. If you need a template, windows word has some good ones. PM me if you want to know more

 

[sunshinevet]

My goodness, I really need to try to keep up these threads better!

After more research, it’s looking like Murdoch might be the school for me.

We’ve decided that the kitties would stay at home with my husband’s parents, so we would just take our two dogs. Is there a more rural, dog friendly area within biking range of the school (five miles or less) that might be somewhat affordable? Where we live now is very non pet friendly, but we were fortunate enough to find a wonderful landlord who loves our dogs.

Unfortunately... no. Murdoch's location is surrounded by pretty dense suburbs on all sides, for quite a while (ie, 20min drive) and unfortunately the entirety of perth is pet-unfriendly. To live anywhere within 5 miles of the school you are looking at minimum rent of $350/week, and that won't be a very big/good place. Perth is unfortunately a very expensive place to live. I'm not saying its impossible, I am however saying it will take time and probably more money than you would like to find a suitable place. I guess it will let you use quarruntine time to your advantage!

Murdoch is great, I absolutely have loved it. I am a local Australian student, btw, so I can't answer most of your questions on fin aid etc, but I definately can answer any question you have on Australia, perth, or the uni and course itself

 

[nyanko]

One of the vet’s I’ve worked for went to vet school at UC Davis, he said the first two years there are all books (no hands on) and that after that they work in the school’s hospital. I’m looking for a more hands-on experience (also, I really have no interest in doing research).

For what it's worth, the curriculum at UCDavis has changed recently.

Definitely not trying to persuade you out of going to Australia though. If I were younger I would have done that in a second!

 

[RadRadTerp]

I really wanted to go abroad when I was first considering applications to veterinary schools and I had the impression that some schools were better or worse than others because I was naive and believed the hype of names, but then when I realized my in-state school would leave me with less than half the debt of an OOS or school abroad, and I quickly decided that I could always travel abroad after I finished my education. Having met quite a few vets struggling with 200-240K in debt, I'm not looking to be in the same situation. If you have the savings to cover a huge chunk of a foreign or OOS education, more power to ya.