Curious to find out why ?

[OD 1993]

As a practicing optometrist in the Northeast area, I've had the pleasure to examine several students in undergrad and few post-grad who were science majors who took their MCATS, with high GPAs of 3.7-3.8, 3.9, and average to below average MCAT scores from some top Universities in the Northeast over this past year. They came to me for glasses and contact lenses and after the exam, I spoke with each of them in-depth and for a good amount of time. They applied to 30 med schools and not one got in this year 2022-2023 with stellar grades and decent MCAT scores. One re-applied a year later and got in this past fall.

My question: why has it become almost impossible to gain admission to medical school in 2022 and forward?
I understand medical school has always been fiercely competitive to get in but what has made it extremely difficult today upon hearing stories of bright kids with stellar grades that can't get in on first try?

I'm sorry to ask such a ridiculous/simple question, but it seems to me that getting into med school in 2022 and forward is almost impossible with outstanding grades. For example, one young person had a 3.9 and MCAT scores 504. Applied to over two dozen schools, got two interviews (allopathic) and did not get in. All others were not favorable.
? Too many qualified applicants for limited seats. There has to be another reason.

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[gyngyn]

There may be factors intrinsic to the applicant as well as factors extrinsic to them.
In your example above, 504 (58th percentile) is well below the median for residents of most states.
Only Puerto Rico and Mississippi have lower mean MCATs than your candidate and they both strongly prefer IS applicants.
For the Northeast, the mean MCAT for a successful applicant is 513.1 (86th percentile). Someone needs way more than a good gpa with an MCAT as low as 504. Their best bet will be with DO schools.

https://www.aamc.org/media/6076/download

 

[Mr.Smile12]

If they are current applicants (2023 cycle), it's still early.

 

[OD 1993]

There may be factors intrinsic to the applicant as well as factors extrinsic to them.
In your example above, 504 (58th percentile) is well below the median for residents of most states.
Only Puerto Rico and Mississippi have lower mean MCATs than your candidate and they both strongly prefer IS applicants.
For the Northeast, the mean MCAT for a successful applicant is 513.1 (86th percentile). Someone needs way more than a good GPA with an MCAT as low as 504. Their best bet will be with DO schools.

https://www.aamc.org/media/6076/download

Thank you for your response. I get the intrinsic and extrinsic factors of the applicant. ? Most likely the secondary personal statement is most crucial for the overwhelming qualified applicants who run into a hurdle and do not succeed with interviews.
From my observations, many did not get into medical school this past cycle 2022-2023 and I was staggered to learn why.
I'm not sure or convinced you answered my question, but thanks again for the feedback and stats you provided.
I wish you continued success in your endeavors.
OD 1993.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm not sure or convinced you answered my question, but thanks again for the feedback and stats you provided.

I'll try again if you help me understand!
Is there some aspect of the process you would like to hear about?

 

[Goro]

Thank you for your response. I get the intrinsic and extrinsic factors of the applicant. ? Most likely the secondary personal statement is most crucial for the overwhelming qualified applicants who run into a hurdle and do not succeed with interviews.
From my observations, many did not get into medical school this past cycle 2022-2023 and I was staggered to learn why.
I'm not sure or convinced you answered my question, but thanks again for the feedback and stats you provided.
I wish you continued success in your endeavors.
OD 1993.

For starters, most medical schools receive thousands, if not tens of thousands of applications for seats that range in the very, very low three figures, and some med schools have 50-100 seats. Just an example at my DO school:

6000 apps
~500 interviews
We accept ~300
We seat ~100

So, there has to be a way to cull the herd when you have some 60000+ apps for ~25,000 MD seats. A 504 MCAT is circling the drain for MD schools.

Med schools will also look for at 150+ hours of clinical exposure, 150+ hours of nonclinical volunteering, 50+ hours of shadowing, and the research titans like Harvard/Stanford class schools like research activities as well.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

It should be said that roughly half of all medical school applicants get accepted to medical school. It's still not impossible, but it is still competitive.

 

[OD 1993]

It should be said that roughly half of all medical school applicants get accepted to medical school. It's still not impossible, but it is still competitive.

Thanks for your feedback. Less than half who applied this year got in.
Medical school admission has always been very competitive but lately, it's become the hardest it has ever been. I say this from my observations and stories I hear from many bright young kids who have done remarkably well and can't get in.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

... Medical school admission has always been very competitive but lately, it's become the hardest it has ever been. I say this from my observations and stories I hear from many bright young kids who have done remarkably well and can't get in.

I understand. I am just saying the trends don't really suggest the odds are m much worse than before. More schools have opened or expanded seats and offerings, and admissions has not yet suffered the Challenges of other professions such as Pharmacy, Podiatry, Dentistry (perhaps), or Optometry. (COUGH Business and Law School.) Undergraduate enrollment has been trending downward for a decade and should remain low for a while so it is competitive as an administrator, but so far one can still remain selective.

 

[Goro]

Thanks for your feedback. Less than half who applied this year got in.
Medical school admission has always been very competitive but lately, it's become the hardest it has ever been. I say this from my observations and stories I hear from many bright young kids who have done remarkably well and can't get in.

It's not just abut grades.
Candidates may lack the required ECs
They may have IAs
They may have lousy essays
They have a bad LOR.
They may have applied too late in the cycle
They may have applied to too few schools.

 

[_med21_e]

As a practicing optometrist in the Northeast area, I've had the pleasure to examine several students in undergrad and few post-grad who were science majors who took their MCATS, with high GPAs of 3.7-3.8, 3.9, and average to below average MCAT scores from some top Universities in the Northeast over this past year. They came to me for glasses and contact lenses and after the exam, I spoke with each of them in-depth and for a good amount of time. They applied to 30 med schools and not one got in this year 2022-2023 with stellar grades and decent MCAT scores. One re-applied a year later and got in this past fall.

My question: why has it become almost impossible to gain admission to medical school in 2022 and forward?
I understand medical school has always been fiercely competitive to get in but what has made it extremely difficult today upon hearing stories of bright kids with stellar grades that can't get in on first try?

I'm sorry to ask such a ridiculous/simple question, but it seems to me that getting into med school in 2022 and forward is almost impossible with outstanding grades. For example, one young person had a 3.9 and MCAT scores 504. Applied to over two dozen schools, got two interviews (allopathic) and did not get in. All others were not favorable.
? Too many qualified applicants for limited seats. There has to be another reason.

Because grades aren't everything. But also, nothing by itself is everything. Grades get you past the first roadblock, but there are checks and balances in place. It also depends on WHERE you are applying. Some schools favor academics, while others favor experience, while others REALLY favor the interview, and will not care if you have a 4.0, 521 MCAT if you don't interview well. So many reasons why.

It took me MULTIPLE cycles to get a DO acceptance. My punishment for having a <3.0 undergrad gpa. And that's okay. I am very happy with my path and the journey it took to get here.

A med school waitlist or rejection is not the end of the world. If you want it badly enough, you'll keep trying.

 

[OD 1993]

I understand. I am just saying the trends don't really suggest the odds are m much worse than before. More schools have opened or expanded seats and offerings, and admissions has not yet suffered the Challenges of other professions such as Pharmacy, Podiatry, Dentistry (perhaps), or Optometry. (COUGH Business and Law School.) Undergraduate enrollment has been trending downward for a decade and should remain low for a while so it is competitive as an administrator, but so far one can still remain selective.

Thanks for your feedback. In my opinion, common sense dictates admission to medical school will NEVER suffer the challenges of other professions as you mentioned.
Gaining admission to Med school from my perspective is the headrest it’s ever been 2022 and will continue.

 

[OD 1993]

Because grades aren't everything. But also, nothing by itself is everything. Grades get you past the first roadblock, but there are checks and balances in place. It also depends on WHERE you are applying. Some schools favor academics, while others favor experience, while others REALLY favor the interview, and will not care if you have a 4.0, 521 MCAT if you don't interview well. So many reasons why.

It took me MULTIPLE cycles to get a DO acceptance. My punishment for having a <3.0 undergrad gpa. And that's okay. I am very happy with my path and the journey it took to get here.

A med school waitlist or rejection is not the end of the world. If you want it badly enough, you'll keep trying.

Congratulations on your persistence and determination to get in.
Best wishes on your life’s journey.

 

[OD 1993]

Thank you to all of you for the aforementioned responses to make me better understand why it’s become almost impossible in this day of age to get into medical school regardless of stellar scores and GPAs.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Thanks for your feedback. In my opinion, common sense dictates admission to medical school will NEVER suffer the challenges of other professions as you mentioned.
Gaining admission to Med school from my perspective is the hardest it’s ever been 2022 and will continue.

I am not sure if medical school admissions is just like the ever growing popularity and profitability of the NFL, but with the demographic cliff coming up, who knows.

 

[KaiBuzz]

Thank you to all of you for the aforementioned responses to make me better understand why it’s become almost impossible in this day of age to get into medical school regardless of stellar scores and GPAs.

It’s not impossible if you have stellar scores and GPAs. All of my gap year colleagues were accepted during the first cycle they applied.

 

[Dral]

I like to think of things as checking off boxes in terms of what needs to be done. I'm not a fan of the process being this way, but it is how things are currently.

Primary things (Things the applicant should be directly doing):
[] GPA and MCAT
[] Research
[] Shadowing
[] Clinical experience/volunteering
[] Non-clinical volunteering
[] Other ECs

Other things:
[] Clear of AIs or issues with the law
[] LoRs
[] Personal statement/Essays
[] Interview abilities/personality component
[] Proper application strategy
[] Others/intangibles (such as compelling life story/experience)


If all these are near perfect, the applicant should be able to get in somewhere. If they are not all perfect, an applicant should still be able to gain admission if they approach it properly. OP, in your example, a 504 is not a great MCAT score to put it nicely. That is in the range of low tier MD and DO schools. If an applicant with a high GPA had that score and applied to mid to high tier allopathic programs, it is no surprise they did not get in. (box of 'proper application strategy' is not checked off)

If an applicant has stellar GPA and MCAT, but no shadowing, they might not get an acceptance.

An applicant may have all the primary boxes checked off, but they applied in September and didn't get their secondary apps in until the last day possible.

As you can see, there are so many moving parts to this. If one of the parts is important enough and fails, everything can fall apart and the person doesn't get interviews or an acceptance.

 

[OD 1993]

I like to think of things as checking off boxes in terms of what needs to be done. I'm not a fan of the process being this way, but it is how things are currently.

Primary things (Things the applicant should be directly doing):
[] GPA and MCAT
[] Research
[] Shadowing
[] Clinical experience/volunteering
[] Non-clinical volunteering
[] Other ECs

Other things:
[] Clear of AIs or issues with the law
[] LoRs
[] Personal statement/Essays
[] Interview abilities/personality component
[] Proper application strategy
[] Others/intangibles (such as compelling life story/experience)


If all these are near perfect, the applicant should be able to get in somewhere. If they are not all perfect, an applicant should still be able to gain admission if they approach it properly. OP, in your example, a 504 is not a great MCAT score to put it nicely. That is in the range of low tier MD and DO schools. If an applicant with a high GPA had that score and applied to mid to high tier allopathic programs, it is no surprise they did not get in. (box of 'proper application strategy' is not checked off)

If an applicant has stellar GPA and MCAT, but no shadowing, they might not get an acceptance.

An applicant may have all the primary boxes checked off, but they applied in September and didn't get their secondary apps in until the last day possible.

As you can see, there are so many moving parts to this. If one of the parts is important enough and fails, everything can fall apart and the person doesn't get interviews or an acceptance.

Thank you for the layout presentation. You made me understand the overall picture of what it takes to gain admission.

 

[gooberdude]

Yeah this is a good list that I wish I had when applying.

 

[Drjc1977]

As a practicing optometrist in the Northeast area, I've had the pleasure to examine several students in undergrad and few post-grad who were science majors who took their MCATS, with high GPAs of 3.7-3.8, 3.9, and average to below average MCAT scores from some top Universities in the Northeast over this past year. They came to me for glasses and contact lenses and after the exam, I spoke with each of them in-depth and for a good amount of time. They applied to 30 med schools and not one got in this year 2022-2023 with stellar grades and decent MCAT scores. One re-applied a year later and got in this past fall.

My question: why has it become almost impossible to gain admission to medical school in 2022 and forward?
I understand medical school has always been fiercely competitive to get in but what has made it extremely difficult today upon hearing stories of bright kids with stellar grades that can't get in on first try?

I'm sorry to ask such a ridiculous/simple question, but it seems to me that getting into med school in 2022 and forward is almost impossible with outstanding grades. For example, one young person had a 3.9 and MCAT scores 504. Applied to over two dozen schools, got two interviews (allopathic) and did not get in. All others were not favorable.
? Too many qualified applicants for limited seats. There has to be another reason.

You have posed a very good question. At the surface I would suggest there are simply more very qualified applicants than there are spaces to accommodate them. Looking at numbers alone, I feel it very hard to believe a student with a 3.8 GPA is somehow an inferior applicant than a student with a 3.9 GPA. Prospective schools are also looking for well rounded, emotionally mature, and committed applicants. If I was interviewing a 3.9 GPA student who had no social life, literally studied 18 hours a day, and was reclusive, I would easily select the applicant with the lower GPA who also was active in the community, had hobbies, socialized, and appeared well adjusted. Schools, besides looking for the applicant who will be successful, realize that student also represents the profession when he/she enters practices. Anyhow, that is my spin on this.

 

[tompremed]

Anecdotally I would say more and more schools are going the "holistic" way, so mere average GPA and MCAT but not much else are not working for the average applicants. And every medical school is emphasizing DEI, so if you are white or Asian, you need much better stats to be considered. I browsed a few schools' forum for II, it is very common for a URM with good stats to get 10+ IIs while ORMs with good stats are getting many fewer IIs.

 

[Tangerine123]

We accept ~300
We seat ~100

Just curious, what does this mean?
You accept 300 but only have 100 places?

 

[gyngyn]

Just curious, what does this mean?
You accept 300 but only have 100 places?

Schools calculate the number needed to fill the class and offer a sufficient number to account for those who choose to go elsewhere.

 

[Goro]

Just curious, what does this mean?
You accept 300 but only have 100 places?

It's like how the airlines overbook seats. They know (or at least hope) that not everyone will show up.

Getting to the magic number of how many accepts vs seats you have is one of the Black Arts.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

... Getting to the magic number of how many accepts vs seats you have is one of the Black Arts.

Yep, ... known for many of us as an M.Ed.

 

[Lupercal]

It's like how the airlines overbook seats. They know (or at least hope) that not everyone will show up.

Getting to the magic number of how many accepts vs seats you have is one of the Black Arts.

What happens if something unusually rare occurs? For example, what would happen if 175 acceptances decide to attend despite only 100 seats? Has that ever happened before?

 

[Goro]

What happens if something unusually rare occurs? For example, what would happen if 175 acceptances decide to attend despite only 100 seats? Has that ever happened before?

That does happen occasionally! And in occasions like these, the Admissions Dean gets fired.

The usual response by the school is to ask the over-booked applicants to defer a year, and usually with an offer of reduced tuition as an inducement.

Touro-NY took the opposite track and told the overbooked kids to go to Touro-Middletown, or found reasons to reject people who were already accepted.

 

[GetmeacceptedAnon]

That does happen occasionally! And in occasions like these, the Admissions Dean gets fired.

The usual response by the school is to ask the over-booked applicants to defer a year, and usually with an offer of reduced tuition as an inducement.

Touro-NY took the opposite track and told the overbooked kids to go to Touro-Middletown, or found reasons to reject people who were already accepted.

they would have to reject? they couldn't just defer them?

 

[Goro]

they would have to reject? they couldn't just defer them?

In the Touro NY case, no. They went big time underhanded.

 

[Rapsidy]

What happens if something unusually rare occurs? For example, what would happen if 175 acceptances decide to attend despite only 100 seats? Has that ever happened before?

That happened to our class, they had about 40 people over what they wanted as a number. They tried to offer a discount to defer (25,000) credit which almost no one took because it’s a tiny amount compared to the loss ratio of 1 year physician salary.

Now we are about 25-30 ish people over what they normally have and the school is still 2 years later trying to work to find more rotation sites for us. A lot of us are mad considering they’ve had 2 years to figure this out knowing it would be an issue but I’ll credit the school at least they didn’t pull what Goro said Touro-NY did and found a way to make it work for us preclinical.