Current Job Market for Ophthalmologists...

[DrNoob2018]

Hi there,

I'm not an ophthalmologist... so bare with me.

What's the job market like for ophthalmologists right now? Is it tough to find jobs in hospitals or to find practices to join?

I ask as I'm currently dating an ophthalmology fellow and we've been discussing marriage.

They're just about to finish their program and their plan is to move back to the small rural town where they grew up to start their own practice (and they want me to come along). I'd like us to stay in our current location (a major city), but they claim the market is saturated and its hard to find work.

Yet I talked to a doctor in another field recently and he claimed there's a nationwide shortage of ophthalmologists and they can find work anywhere... so who's right?

Thanks

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[docdoc2012]

As you probably know, there are 2 kinds of positions in medicine- employed vs. private practice. In ophthalmology in particular, there is a huge discrepency in what you can take home between the two, often with similar hours, with private practice being lucrative. Ophthalmology also is a career of longevity, meaning that older guys generally do not retire to make room for the younger ones coming into the market.

This creates a couple of bad situations in big cities for ophthalmologists
1. There are a lot of people who want to live in cities, so everybody is pulling from the same pool of patients, and often a new doctor is contending against an 30+ year established practice who have community referrals on lock down, and it is very hard to break into a market unless you are at one of these practices
2. These practices overwhelmingly tend to be predatory - you are started with a very low base salary with a drawn out partnership track and a ridiculously high buy in for partnership. You are given patients who are complicated, take a lot of your time which you dont get paid any more for, complex surgeries (if you get any surgical referrals at all) or see a ton of emergency red eye add ons - all in all, it makes it very hard to meet your billing requirements. Also, as an ophthalmologist fresh out of fellowship/residency, you really want surgical volume because your hands are still young and need practice.
3. While employed positions are available in these markets, once again you run into sacrificing the enormous potential you have financially in private practice

So when your SO says saturated, she/he probably doesn't mean there are no jobs, just very crappy options.

Why can they do this? Because many of us want to live in or within 30 minutes of a big city no matter what, and practices understand this and know that if one candidate says no, there are 10 others who will say yes.

 

[dantt]

Hi there,

I'm not an ophthalmologist... so bare with me.

What's the job market like for ophthalmologists right now? Is it tough to find jobs in hospitals or to find practices to join?

I ask as I'm currently dating an ophthalmology fellow and we've been discussing marriage.

They're just about to finish their program and their plan is to move back to the small rural town where they grew up to start their own practice (and they want me to come along). I'd like us to stay in our current location (a major city), but they claim the market is saturated and its hard to find work.

Yet I talked to a doctor in another field recently and he claimed there's a nationwide shortage of ophthalmologists and they can find work anywhere... so who's right?

Thanks

What city?

 

[corneainterviewseason]

A few interesting things I've noticed since starting practice in a medium-large desirable city:

• Solo or small group private docs face challenges with referral pools shrinking in large areas. As more Ophthalmologists/Optometrists are joining big groups, those who used to refer to these solo or small group private docs now refer within their group. Also, some very large private multispecialty medical groups are now hiring ophthalmologists, and making their internists/other docs contractually obligated to refer within their group. Same is true with Kaiser, etc...
• If you wonder if an area is saturated, you can look at AAO Jobs. In my market, no jobs have showed up on AAO jobs in a LONG time. Means it's saturated, or that jobs are filling word of mouth. I have several friends wanting to end up in our city, and there are literally no openings.
• If you join a big private group that will get you busy from the get go, that is great. But there are also downsides to a big group (see above about partnership). If you are joining a private guy that is just looking for someone to take half the overhead, but isn't willing to give you patients, you are going to have your work cut out for you to try and get busy. It is HARD in a saturated market to get patients starting from scratch. Can't stress this enough. And, at least in our city, private docs are selling their practices/equipment for $650K or more.
• Employed physicians have lower earning ceilings for sure. But they also get busier faster, make good money with benefits faster, and don't have to worry about overhead. More risk, more reward with private for sure. But the risk is real. You could not make it private and make $175K or less for 4 years as a solo private doc, sink a bunch of money into buying a practice, and end up being employed later.

 

[DrNoob2018]

What city?

We're in one of the larger cities. I'm keeping things vague as I don't want my SO to know I'm second guessing what they've been telling me.

I'm just the kind of person that likes to do my own research, and lets face it my SO is slightly biased in this situation. Regardless of the risks/rewards, I think they just want to move back home.

It sounds like my SO was right, and that its highly competitive in all the major-medium sized cities.

Thanks for the help guys!

 

[DrNoob2018]

What's an AAO job?

 

[Rhexis]

What's an AAO job?

I think he/she meant jobs posted on the AAO website. Jobs | Ophthalmology Job Center

 

[LightBox]

There are pros and cons to any location. The biggest pro about your boyfriend's potential move back home is that he (and thus you if you guys get married) will likely be financially independent much earlier. Trust me, if he is making 5x more money than the average Ophthalmologist, you can take as many trips to the big city as you want.

The biggest con is whether or not it is a good place to raise kids and whether you will be bored to death as a rich wife. You can definitely be just as successful in a bigger city, but it likely will be a bit harder. It's really a personal choice either way and your priorities will likely change in either situation.

 

[peter2013]

I'm keeping things vague as I don't want my SO to know I'm second guessing what they've been telling me.

Let me see if I got this straight. You're getting married, but you don't trust your SO's judgement about a major life issue and you feel like you can't talk to them about their potential bias, so you go to a forum, that you don't want him or her to find out about, to get the opinions of anonymous strangers.

 

[LightBox]

"Just swipe right"

-- Ashley Madison

 

[dantt]

We're in one of the larger cities. I'm keeping things vague as I don't want my SO to know I'm second guessing what they've been telling me.

I'm just the kind of person that likes to do my own research, and lets face it my SO is slightly biased in this situation. Regardless of the risks/rewards, I think they just want to move back home.

It sounds like my SO was right, and that its highly competitive in all the major-medium sized cities.

Thanks for the help guys!

How about what state?

Something like Los Angeles or New York City is very different from something like Chicago or Houston.

 

[DrNoob2018]

Let me see if I got this straight. You're getting married, but you don't trust your SO's judgement about a major life issue and you feel like you can't talk to them about their potential bias, so you go to a forum, that you don't want him or her to find out about, to get the opinions of anonymous strangers.

We have a saying in my line of work... "trust but verify"... It's not that I don't trust them, I'd just like a second opinion, and I don't know anybody else to ask. I think you would have to be crazy not to get a second opinion with something this important.

This move would require me to give up a great high paying career, an excellent retirement, and my main hobby, and I'm not sure its worth it. Imagine being asked to walk away from ophthalmology after working so many years to get to where you are. It's not an easy decision.

Thanks for the help guys! I think I've made up my mind.

 

[DrNoob2018]

Doublepost

 

[Bgladney]

As someone who specializes in the ophthalmic job market your SO is correct. Depending upon where you are looking to relocate, it can be nearly impossible to find a position in a highly desirable city. As others have said, it is possible to find a position in a big city, however your SO might be looking again in a year or so.

If you are looking for further insight and advice on the ophthalmic job market, PM me. Happy to help you both!

 

[PantherPride]

Can anyone comment on the job market in large southern cities (Dallas, Houston, etc)

 

[hello lady!]

Let me see if I got this straight. You're getting married, but you don't trust your SO's judgement about a major life issue and you feel like you can't talk to them about their potential bias, so you go to a forum, that you don't want him or her to find out about, to get the opinions of anonymous strangers.

I don't think it's unreasonable just to put an anonymous question out there to see if your SO has the wrong impression? Maybe anonymous people can paint a picture from a different angle?

It's just data gathering

 

[Bgladney]

Can anyone comment on the job market in large southern cities (Dallas, Houston, etc)

Will PM you

 

[peter2013]

I don't think it's unreasonable just to put an anonymous question out there to see if your SO has the wrong impression? Maybe anonymous people can paint a picture from a different angle?

It's just data gathering

I have zero problems with the inquiry or anonymous posts in general. That’s why this forum is here. But when drnoob wrote that he or she didn’t want their significant other finding out about this and that despite risk/reward all the SO wants to do is go home despite giving other reasons, that all seemed a bit shady, so I called it out.

 

[JMK2005]

your SO is right. big city job market sucks, especially California.

 

[WhatNEyeTem]

Cali is the worst for taxes and cost of living too. But if your family is there, you may be happier.

 

[Equality]

I think Cali also has highest disability insurance premiums.