Current M3 Advice

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May of 4th year was a good month 🙂
 
Until patients blame you for all their problems and think they know more than you do. And you can’t even take care of yourself due to the TOXIC nature of medicine.

“Why is my A1C 8.8, I only eat 8 snickers per day?”
 
I don't mean to be a jerk but I also don't want to leave this alone because it is so bleak sounding. For some context, OP was at the top of their class in preclinical years and just failed the NBME for their first rotation. This is probably not the best moment to hear from Johnny about whether med school is a good choice.
 
efle said:
I don't mean to be a jerk but I also don't want to leave this alone because it is so bleak sounding. For some context, OP was at the top of their class in preclinical years and just failed the NBME for their first rotation. This is probably not the best moment to hear from Johnny about whether med school is a good choice.
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You have no idea what I’m going through, so please keep snarky comments to yourself. And I’m telling it like it is, unfortunately.
 
JohnnyKnoxville said:
You have no idea what I’m going through, so please keep snarky comments to yourself. And I’m telling it like it is, unfortunately.
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I apologize. I only meant that because you're going through a lot right now, it is probably not the right time to advise pre-meds. As the above shows, you might hate it now but love it again in a couple years, and you might not be glad to have turned someone off from medicine.
 
I used to feel that way. Unfortunately, I’ve discovered the real truth. The nasty truth of a system that abuses us, demeans us, and demands perfection, all while we don’t get a single second to take care of ourselves. I was literally told by a clerkship coordinator that I wouldn’t be able to take two days off for a procedure. Two days! So I had to schedule it for my vacation after the clerkship when I already have plans to go someplace to have fun, because vacations aren’t for relaxation according to sadistic attendings.
 
JohnnyKnoxville said:
I used to feel that way. Unfortunately, I’ve discovered the real truth. The nasty truth of a system that abuses us, demeans us, and demands perfection, all while we don’t get a single second to take care of ourselves. I was literally told by a clerkship coordinator that I wouldn’t be able to take two days off for a procedure. Two days! So I had to schedule it for my vacation after the clerkship when I already have plans to go someplace to have fun, because vacations aren’t for relaxation according to sadistic attendings.
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That sounds bad. Do you have a student wellness office / contact person? This is exactly the kind of thing they exist for, to make sure students aren't being forced to neglect their mental or physical health
 
I agree with the above poster - you should find someone on or near campus to talk to. Your peers can be a great asset in this regard.

This is also not the best forum for this. If anything, go to the clinical forums, where other clinical students can offer advice and/or (sinilar) perspectives. Also, 1 clerkship into M3 year is not the time to come tell pre-medical students what to do or not do with their life.

I absolutely hated the first 4 months of third year. Back to back medicine and surgery. It was rough. No, it ****ing sucked. It does get better though. I again recommend posting in the clinical forums where you can hear from other people who are or have gone through similar things.

I hope things get better for you.
 
JohnnyKnoxville said:
I used to feel that way. Unfortunately, I’ve discovered the real truth. The nasty truth of a system that abuses us, demeans us, and demands perfection, all while we don’t get a single second to take care of ourselves. I was literally told by a clerkship coordinator that I wouldn’t be able to take two days off for a procedure. Two days! So I had to schedule it for my vacation after the clerkship when I already have plans to go someplace to have fun, because vacations aren’t for relaxation according to sadistic attendings.
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There's your mistake. As you go through 3rd and 4th year you'll figure out what needs to go through the coordinator/school, and what can stay between you and the residents :angelic:

However they do have a point, vacation is no longer only for fun.
 
smukke said:
There's your mistake. As you go through 3rd and 4th year you'll figure out what needs to go through the coordinator/school, and what can stay between you and the residents :angelic:

However they do have a point, vacation is no longer only for fun.
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That makes no sense. Why would I take an issue such as that to anyone but the coordinator? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

Also, these vacation times are times we are literally told to “relax and have fun.”
 
JohnnyKnoxville said:
Do literally anything else with your life.
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In this OP's defense, I will say having been in and around premed and medical school for much longer than I care to calculate, I have met many doctors under 30 years old, who have completed residency, yet to practice an independent day in their lives, already bitter and cynical at the profession they have chosen. After 12 years of UG, Med school and residency, they are driving the same care they had in UG, loans going over $300,000 dollars, no real social life, no steady relationship, seemingly burned out.

This is why adcoms look for motivation, commitment, and achievement and why what your application can show about your personal characteristics such as passion, dedication, and resiliency. Every wonder why virtually every school asks about challenges? And certainly I and many, many others have advised, if you can be happy doing anything else, go with it
 
gonnif said:
In this OP's defense, I will say having been in and around premed and medical school for much longer than I care to calculate, I have met many doctors under 30 years old, who have completed residency, yet to practice an independent day in their lives, already bitter and cynical at the profession they have chosen. After 12 years of UG, Med school and residency, they are driving the same care they had in UG, loans going over $300,000 dollars, no real social life, no steady relationship, seemingly burned out.

This is why adcoms look for motivation, commitment, and achievement and why what your application can show about your personal characteristics such as passion, dedication, and resiliency. Every wonder why virtually every school asks about challenges? And certainly I and many, many others have advised, if you can be happy doing anything else, go with it
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Problem is, I wouldn’t have been happy doing anything else two years ago, so that advice is 110% worthless for me. I’ve had a lot of adversity in my life that made me want to go to medical school, until I opened my eyes and saw the bull****.
 
OP, did you work full-time at all between UG and med school?
 
OP, I don't mean to hijack your thread but I have been considering other career options due to my newborn who turns 1 month this Friday.

It's a tough decision because I've always wanted to become a physician but ever since my daughter was born my perspective has changed drastically about my future career. For instance, the amount of training one has to go through during this journey is tough. I especially do not want to miss any big moments throughout my daughters life. I'm currently at a crossroads, talking with my wife everyday to see what's the best option for our family.

But on topic, I can see your frustration OP. I would've felt the same.
 
JohnnyKnoxville said:
Problem is, I wouldn’t have been happy doing anything else two years ago, so that advice is 110% worthless for me. I’ve had a lot of adversity in my life that made me want to go to medical school, until I opened my eyes and saw the bull****.
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So right now you are saying NOTHING will make you happy. This is an issue beyond medical school
 
gonnif said:
So right now you are saying NOTHING will make you happy. This is an issue beyond medical school
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The only thing that would make me happy would be my debt disappearing so I can leave with at least a little dignity intact, because med school is a scam.
 
gonnif said:
How is debt related to dignity in your view
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You entirely miss the point. If I could leave, I would be able to have my dignity. However, the debt is probably too much for me to justify leaving. I now know why med school is so expensive, so they have leverage to keep you. Pre-meds, PLEASE consider ANYTHING else.
 
acslater99 said:
OP, I don't mean to hijack your thread but I have been considering other career options due to my newborn who turns 1 month this Friday.

It's a tough decision because I've always wanted to become a physician but ever since my daughter was born my perspective has changed drastically about my future career. For instance, the amount of training one has to go through during this journey is tough. I especially do not want to miss any big moments throughout my daughters life. I'm currently at a crossroads, talking with my wife everyday to see what's the best option for our family.

But on topic, I can see your frustration OP. I would've felt the same.
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I’m kind of in the same boat. No family, but I’d like one. However, I rarely have time for a date, and when I do hit it off with someone, they don’t want to deal with my schedule.
 
JohnnyKnoxville said:
I’m kind of in the same boat. No family, but I’d like one. However, I rarely have time for a date, and when I do hit it off with someone, they don’t want to deal with my schedule.
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It's time for an LOA. In the downhill spiral you're in, you're headed for dismissal.
Seek out your school's counseling center, STAT.
 
I don't have anything else to say except that there's hierarchical bull**** everywhere. So much of life's outcomes depend on hardwork, but so much of it is also luck. I'm sorry that you've been having bad luck lately.

This reminds me of when I used to be sick all the time as a child and my mother would use all her vacation days taking care of me taking me to the doctor. I think that as you move through life, you'll find that in most professions, vacation time isn't actually time for vacation.

Take care
 
Goro said:
It's time for an LOA. In the downhill spiral you're in, you're headed for dismissal.
Seek out your school's counseling center, STAT.
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Honors to dismissal in less than six months without a criminal or professional violation? Good one. I’d have my name on the school if I got kicked out for medical issues.
 
This is a good reminder to all people- premed, med students, residents, busy attendings alike- that we and our loved ones are mortal. We should never anticipate hard work = smooth ride every time. The sooner we embrace that **** happens, the better equipped we are to deal with it when it does happen. And the more grateful we are when things are sailing smoothly.

OP, there's never a convenient time to have health issues, especially when you're in medical training. Nevertheless, at least you have ways to work around it, like an LOA. If not an LOA, I'm sure you'll figure something out eventually. It may not be what you want to hear right now, and it's okay if it annoys you when I say it, but at least you have a home, you don't have a mortgage and a family to pay for, etc.

I think it's important that you shift your mood sooner rather than later to see what you can learn from this. Indeed there are circumstances besides purely meritocracy that work against people for them to succeed. You've experienced this first hand now, and one day you'll be a more compassionate doctor because of it. I hope you come out of this a better person rather than letting your hardships harden your heart.
 
JohnnyKnoxville said:
Honors to dismissal in less than six months without a criminal or professional violation? Good one. I’d have my name on the school if I got kicked out for medical issues.
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I didn't give you a timeline for a dismissal, you did. What I see is that you're in a downward spiral heading for multiple fails. I would trust that your school would mandate an LOA first. But if you don't get help, I don't see a good outcome.
 
JohnnyKnoxville said:
Honors to dismissal in less than six months without a criminal or professional violation? Good one. I’d have my name on the school if I got kicked out for medical issues.
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Ok then, how about you go talk to someone in real life and start working through these problems and come up with a plan to improve your performance, instead of complaining to a bunch of premeds? Otherwise, you are going to end up with a LOA whether you want it or not.
 
fourandtwo said:
This is a good reminder to all people- premed, med students, residents, busy attendings alike- that we and our loved ones are mortal. We should never anticipate hard work = smooth ride every time. The sooner we embrace that **** happens, the better equipped we are to deal with it when it does happen. And the more grateful we are when things are sailing smoothly.

OP, there's never a convenient time to have health issues, especially when you're in medical training. Nevertheless, at least you have ways to work around it, like an LOA. If not an LOA, I'm sure you'll figure something out eventually. It may not be what you want to hear right now, and it's okay if it annoys you when I say it, but at least you have a home, you don't have a mortgage and a family to pay for, etc.

I think it's important that you shift your mood sooner rather than later to see what you can learn from this. Indeed there are circumstances besides purely meritocracy that work against people for them to succeed. You've experienced this first hand now, and one day you'll be a more compassionate doctor because of it. I hope you come out of this a better person rather than letting your hardships harden your heart.
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You have not stepped foot in med school yet, you are in no place to comment. Medical school is NOT a convenient time for anything to happen. Do you think I want to take an LOA? And my heart was not hardened by my hardships, it’s been hardened by the TOXIC nature of medicine.
 
Oso said:
Ok then, how about you go talk to someone in real life and start working through these problems and come up with a plan to improve your performance, instead of complaining to a bunch of premeds? Otherwise, you are going to end up with a LOA whether you want it or not.
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I think premeds should be aware of the brutal reality, and not have grandiose ideas of actually doing something meaningful with their lives. The more informed they are, the better equipped they are to make better decisions.

I just don’t want others to end up in my shoes.
 
If you hate it that much you should probably quit. You just barely started M3 year and you're already complaining. You already stated it's only going to get worse from here on out. You barely have any responsibilities as a 3rd year student. You think residency is going to be any easier for you? Your debt argument is also dumb. Yeah you'll be 2 years in debt but that is better than being 4 years in debt + 4 years or residency debt accumulation. So quit while you're barely in before you make an even worse mistake in the future.
 
cj_cregg said:
But you're universalizing your experience, which is inherently different than anyone else's. Are there things that completely suck about med school, no matter what? Hell yeah. But for many of us, the good things balance out the bad. You saying "I had a bad time on my first ever rotation of M3 year so therefore medicine is terrible and nobody should do it" is a pretty significant jump.
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It all sucks. Doctors suck. Patients suck. Insurance companies suck. The “science” behind what we do sucks. IT ALL SUCKS!!
 
JohnnyKnoxville said:
It all sucks. Doctors suck. Patients suck. Insurance companies suck. The “science” behind what we do sucks. IT ALL SUCKS!!
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People suck. You're lucky if it took until your 20s to realize it. You can't change it. Stop trying to change it.
 
getdown said:
If you hate it that much you should probably quit. You just barely started M3 year and you're already complaining. You already stated it's only going to get worse from here on out. You barely have any responsibilities as a 3rd year student. You think residency is going to be any easier for you? Your debt argument is also dumb. Yeah you'll be 2 years in debt but that is better than being 4 years in debt + 4 years or residency debt accumulation. So quit while you're barely in before you make an even worse mistake in the future.
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Your argument is equally dumb. There’s no way I will ever be able to pay off my debt unless I earn an attending salary. Also, with all my medical bills, student loans are the only way I can afford them since I don’t have daddy’s tit to suck on like a lot of medical students.
 
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