Current Status of Healthcare and its Challenges

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I couldn't find a concise, unbiased answer to this topic. I know it's a common interview question so thanks for your help...

What is the current status of healthcare in U.S. and what are some of the challenges it's facing and how would you react as a physician?

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I couldn't find a concise, unbiased answer to this topic. I know it's a common interview question so thanks for your help...

What is the current status of healthcare in U.S. and what are some of the challenges it's facing and how would you react as a physician?

Well, you won't find a concise answer to this question because you have to make your own opinion about it. I'm sure there will be an argument in this thread about it so you'll end up getting your answer... so i'll just summarize my general view in an informal way.

I was asked what view I had on socialized medicine. The movement to socialize healthcare sucks in that, although medical care can be provided to most people who would otherwise not be treated, it'll end up filling the hospital lobbies. This means less time a physician can spend with his patient... leading to lesser standard of treatment. Solution to this would be to hire more doctors and create more hospitals, but to bring in more physicians means lowering the quality of students trained, and the quality of the training of the students.

Ultimately... the idea of socialized medicine sucks right now. 20 years from now, it'll be fine. Do I think the detriment of it now is worth it in the end? No.

This is my very general and vague opinion. I can elaborate further if needed... I'm sure Stok will pop in with his political wisdom and provide some good insight. 🙂
 
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I'll answer by asking you a rhetorical question.

Imaging you live in a town where there are two hospitals.

The first hospital was built in the 1970's, employs some excellent physicians and ancillary staff and has some of the best outcomes in the entire nation. The hospital hasn't been renovated or upgraded since 1987 with the exception of new furniture here and there, and the addition of the basic diagnostic modalities (i.e.. they have CT, MRI, Fluoroscopy, Cath Lab etc, not state of the art, but they have them and they know how to use them effectively and conservatively), patients often have to share rooms etc. The hospital is a great place to get care, but it looks like it's been due for a makeover since most of you were fetuses.

The second hospital opened in 2009, features stunning architecture, 4 star amenities (flat screen TV in every room, excellent food service staff, meditation garden on the roof etc), and a promise that you'll be door to doc in 15 minutes or less should you end up in the ER there. The medical staff is young, and the hospital generally lands 50-60% lower on the outcomes measurements than the older hospital across town. This hospital has an excellent advertising staff, they really get the word out about how nice and comfortable their hospital is. Hospital stays average ~25% more than the older hospital across town.

Which hospital would you go to? Which hospital do you think you're average Joe who doesn't pay attention to what's going on wants to go to? Especially when the average Joe pays very little to nothing out of pocket due to insurance coverage?

Basically it's our demands that hospitals look like the Ritz Carlton inside first, and provide affordable care second; and the fact that we have to have the latest and greatest MRI's etc that I feel is contributing to a significant portion of the cost of health care in this country.

People will gladly pay $$$ to pick up a nosocomial VRSA infection if it means they get egyptian cotton sheets and a 42" plasma screen in their hospital room. Therein lies the problem IMO.
 
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Lol. Toytles knows I am passionate about healthcare. But I am going to tell you what you need to know for the interview and I will TRY to be unbiased.

We have 20-30 million uninsured now and many cannot get insurance. The main reason is that it is a for profit system and people are denied coverage for preexisting conditions or insurance is dropped when healthcare gets expensive. This is a problem. However, we also have people who say "screw insurance" and when they get cancer they bitch about the broken system, however if insurance companies provided insurance and then immediately started paying huge bills, every insurance company would go under. This brings us to forcing people to buy healthcare. Many will say its wrong but it is the only way to insure universally.

Next we come to for profit, non profit, and social medicine. For profit is what we have and the US is the only remaining devloped nation with it. The bad parts about it involce shareholders and business practice. Every insurance claim affects the bottom line and goes against shareholders, so companies should (and do) deny coverage. Non profit for basic care takes shareholders out of the picture. Socialized medicine is government run. As a future physician, socialized medicine will provide the loowest pay and likely the worst patient care, as it will likely pay on the evidenced based medicine model, so if a patient doesn't fit that, the doctor won't want to veer off the path. Basically flowchart medicine. The for profit system doesn't work because it leaves so many uninsured and this number will likely increase over time.

Another issue is that many insurance companies don't provide preventative care because when people turn 65, the go on medicare and are no longer a liability to the insurance company, so preventative care affects the bottom line. But healthvare costs skyrocket because of this. You should also talk about tort reform because malpractice shoots up costs.

Now we go to Obama's reform. Check out "health care comes to main street" on youtube and you will get a quick rundown on of what it says and you can apply it to the issues. The healthcare being a right vs a privelege comes down to "who's going to pay." If it is a right, the government should, but we go towards socialized government run medicine. If it isn't a right, it is on the person, but they need to pay for it, and if you can't afford it, sucks to be you.

So now that you have a rundown on what the current state of healthcare is, you just need to decide where you fall on the debate and why you feel that way. I can't tell you where you fall because that is person dependant and healthcare is a heated issue. Again, this is trying to give you the goods and bads for an interview and I am not trying to debate that here.

And pardon grammar. I am on my phone. I think that covers most of it.
 
That's a good article and reminds me that physicians are forced to practice defensive medicine which drives up costs and is detrimental to the patient. But this goes back to tort reform.

If you are asked to talk about costs, I would bring up issues that are directly related to medicine, like tort reform, defensive medicine, forcing people to buy, for profit system, etc. Stay away from tax reform. This is too risky for an interview.
 
I think the US needs to look up north (Canada) and copy their neighbour's UNIVERSAL health care system. It's working well and, here's the kickers, docs get paid atleast as much if not more than their american counterparts.
 
I think the US needs to look up north (Canada) and copy their neighbour's UNIVERSAL health care system. It's working well and, here's the kickers, docs get paid atleast as much if not more than their american counterparts.

If anyone is friends with me on facebook or have seen my posts in more political threads, they would know that I am a pretty hardcore democrat, but I have to disagree with you. I would argue that the primary care physicians make decent money, but there is a big gap in specialist pay (from what I've seen). Also wait times are insane for specialist care and many non emergent, chronic problems are treated by teaching the patient how to "deal" with the problem.

But I would love to hear from canadians regarding pay. And I don't think this thread is for debate. So maybe I should delete my post, but I am curious about how canadians feel as everything I have read is one sided from the patients perspective. I would love to see how physicians and future physicians feel about the system.
 
I support a single-payer model (Universal Medicare), but not socialized medicine. I think that medicare coverage should be expanded for all. People could elect to purchase additional private insurance if they desired, though I doubt most would. Meanwhile, the medical system itself would remain private and doctors would continue operating in a similar fashion to now.

The advantage for doing this would be many, here are a few:

* It would maintain free-market competition within the health care system. The gov't would act as universal insurance, but would not overly disrupt the market by socializing the entire system. Physician salary would stay static.
* It would ensure that health care is available to all. I believe that health care should be viewed as a human right, like education and other essential social goods are.
* A single-payer model would reduce unnecessary expenses and waste (e.g. shareholder profits, CEO salaries, etc.)
* Billing headaches would be reduced and less administrative staff would be needed.
* The gov't would have significant bargaining power which it could use to constrain costs.
* Single-payer insurance would be highly portable
* Individuals wouldn't be going bankrupt due to health cost overruns if the payment system were properly set up
* The private insurance industry is, by nature, in conflict with the sick patient, as claims reduce earnings.
* Costs would be shared more equally between the sick and the well, and as a result, switching to a single-payer model might be a long-term improvement for medicare's funding problem.
 
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how come in America the so called "unbiased" view always involves things that are incorrect and unscientific, despite mounting evidence? For example, teaching creationism at schools and arguing against a single-payer healthcare system, which is effective in improving health of the public?

Calling for a single payer healthcare system and socialized medicine is not a biased view, it is the scientifically correct view.
 
how come in America the so called "unbiased" view always involves things that are incorrect and unscientific, despite mounting evidence? For example, teaching creationism at schools and arguing against a single-payer healthcare system, which is effective in improving health of the public?

Calling for a single payer healthcare system and socialized medicine is not a biased view, it is the scientifically correct view.

What? Having a biased view means I am explaining two sides but clearly supporting one.

So if I say creationism is backed by fairies and evolution is backed by science, I am biased. If I say creationism is backed by God and the Bible and evolution is backed by some random *****, I am biased. A biased vs. unbiased view has absolutely nothing to do with issues.

So based on that, I don't know what you are talking about.

And socialized medicine may improve the healthcare of the public. But dropping from 450 pounds to 420 pounds is also an improvement. Smoking 1/2 a pack vs. 2 packs is an improvement. It still doesn't mean it is the best option.
 
What? Having a biased view means I am explaining two sides but clearly supporting one........A biased vs. unbiased view has absolutely nothing to do with issues.

my point is, a person is actually creating bias by mentioning something that is unworthy of discussion. When one side of the argument is invalid, why even attempt to make it sound good by "trying to have an unbiased view"? For example, I personally find it ridiculous that some people are even trying compare creationism vs evolution.

In the case of healthcare systems, that would be trying to argue that the current US system of privatized medicine is better than the European models of socialized medicine/ universal healthcare. Anybody with training in public health would tell you that the European model works better in terms of health and financial outcomes.
 
my point is, a person is actually creating bias by mentioning something that is unworthy of discussion. When one side of the argument is invalid, why even attempt to make it sound good by "trying to have an unbiased view"? For example, I personally find it ridiculous that some people are even trying compare creationism vs evolution.

In the case of healthcare systems, that would be trying to argue that the current US system of privatized medicine is better than the European models of socialized medicine/ universal healthcare. Anybody with training in public health would tell you that the European model works better in terms of health and financial outcomes.

But it doesn't work better in terms of quality and wait times. It doesn't work better in terms of research and pharmacological interventions. It doesn't work better in providing people the ability to solve comfort issues. America has the best medicine available hands down compared to the rest of the world. We just can't provide adequate coverage. Many of the newest medications that are fantastic aren't offered in europe at all because of cost. That's a problem.

So I am not arguing that our current system is better, but you can't necessarily argue that the european system is better either.
 
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But it doesn't work better in terms of quality and wait times. It doesn't work better in terms of research and pharmacological interventions. It doesn't work better in providing people the ability to solve comfort issues. America has the best medicine available hands down compared to the rest of the world. We just can't provide adequate coverage. Many of the newest medications that are fantastic aren't offered in europe at all because of cost. That's a problem.

Having the newest/ best medications does not mean it translates to better care.If one just looks at the burden of disease and disability adjusted life years (DALY) lost, one will find that the US is performing quite poor in such areas. The US also has the lowest life expectancy out of all Western industrialized countries, I dont think it is a coincidence that the same country also has the whackiest possible healthcare system.

In the UK and other European countries, it is possible to circumvent the wait time and comfort issues by purchasing additional health insurance from private companies or paying out of pocket.

Plus, a lot of the big pharmas are European and Japanese based, it is the companies that are responsible of producing ever-improving meds, not their countries' health systems.
 
Lol. Toytles knows I am passionate about healthcare. But I am going to tell you what you need to know for the interview and I will TRY to be unbiased.

We have 20-30 million uninsured now and many cannot get insurance. The main reason is that it is a for profit system and people are denied coverage for preexisting conditions or insurance is dropped when healthcare gets expensive. This is a problem. However, we also have people who say "screw insurance" and when they get cancer they bitch about the broken system, however if insurance companies provided insurance and then immediately started paying huge bills, every insurance company would go under. This brings us to forcing people to buy healthcare. Many will say its wrong but it is the only way to insure universally.

Next we come to for profit, non profit, and social medicine. For profit is what we have and the US is the only remaining devloped nation with it. The bad parts about it involce shareholders and business practice. Every insurance claim affects the bottom line and goes against shareholders, so companies should (and do) deny coverage. Non profit for basic care takes shareholders out of the picture. Socialized medicine is government run. As a future physician, socialized medicine will provide the loowest pay and likely the worst patient care, as it will likely pay on the evidenced based medicine model, so if a patient doesn't fit that, the doctor won't want to veer off the path. Basically flowchart medicine. The for profit system doesn't work because it leaves so many uninsured and this number will likely increase over time.

Another issue is that many insurance companies don't provide preventative care because when people turn 65, the go on medicare and are no longer a liability to the insurance company, so preventative care affects the bottom line. But healthvare costs skyrocket because of this. You should also talk about tort reform because malpractice shoots up costs.

Now we go to Obama's reform. Check out "health care comes to main street" on youtube and you will get a quick rundown on of what it says and you can apply it to the issues. The healthcare being a right vs a privelege comes down to "who's going to pay." If it is a right, the government should, but we go towards socialized government run medicine. If it isn't a right, it is on the person, but they need to pay for it, and if you can't afford it, sucks to be you.

So now that you have a rundown on what the current state of healthcare is, you just need to decide where you fall on the debate and why you feel that way. I can't tell you where you fall because that is person dependant and healthcare is a heated issue. Again, this is trying to give you the goods and bads for an interview and I am not trying to debate that here.

And pardon grammar. I am on my phone. I think that covers most of it.

If anyone is friends with me on facebook or have seen my posts in more political threads, they would know that I am a pretty hardcore democrat, but I have to disagree with you. I would argue that the primary care physicians make decent money, but there is a big gap in specialist pay (from what I've seen). Also wait times are insane for specialist care and many non emergent, chronic problems are treated by teaching the patient how to "deal" with the problem.

But I would love to hear from canadians regarding pay. And I don't think this thread is for debate. So maybe I should delete my post, but I am curious about how canadians feel as everything I have read is one sided from the patients perspective. I would love to see how physicians and future physicians feel about the system.

But it doesn't work better in terms of quality and wait times. It doesn't work better in terms of research and pharmacological interventions. It doesn't work better in providing people the ability to solve comfort issues. America has the best medicine available hands down compared to the rest of the world. We just can't provide adequate coverage. Many of the newest medications that are fantastic aren't offered in europe at all because of cost. That's a problem.

So I am not arguing that our current system is better, but you can't necessarily argue that the european system is better either.


:highfive::clap:

Like you said, at times you can be obviously biased towards the democratic party. But I really have to say that you took an unbiased explanation of things. Your first paragraph that I bolded really sums up things. I saw on msnbc the other day a comment from someone who said "Individuals won't be paying for it, the insurance companies will" on the issue of providing medications or health coverage, I lol'd. The only issue I have with socialized medicine is that we already have government run health programs (Medicare & Medicaid) and they are abused and provide substandard care in some situations. I don't argue that there isn't an issue, but for some to say that we can put that large of a responsibility on our government is too much I feel.

All said, great job Frky...
 
I think the problem here is, many Americans grow up in an environment that emphasizes freedom, including the freedom of choosing what kind of health insurance they want; the Republican proposal definitely promises that. However, as future physicians, it is our responsibility to evaluate situations scientifically. In medicine, patients' health outcomes are the primary objective, and I must say, the European model is definitely doing a better job in obtaining better health outcomes in patients; this is supported by an incredible amount of science and this fact will not change no matter how unbiased one is.
 
I think the problem here is, many Americans grow up in an environment that emphasizes freedom, including the freedom of choosing what kind of health insurance they want; the Republican proposal definitely promises that. However, as future physicians, it is our responsibility to evaluate situations scientifically. In medicine, patients' health outcomes are the primary objective, and I must say, the European model is definitely doing a better job in obtaining better health outcomes in patients; this is supported by an incredible amount of science and this fact will not change no matter how unbiased one is.

I don't have a problem with the universal healthcare model you are supporting or even the reasons you support it. I really have a problem with your argument that that everyone has to agree with you because it is scientific fact and leave no room for debate. You seem to imply that as future physicians we all need to support a european style system because, gosh darn it, anything else is an affront to our patients . Good luck rallying physicians behind that.
 
I don't have a problem with the universal healthcare model you are supporting or even the reasons you support it. I really have a problem with your argument that that everyone has to agree with you because it is scientific fact and leave no room for debate. You seem to imply that as future physicians we all need to support a european style system because, gosh darn it, anything else is an affront to our patients . Good luck rallying physicians behind that.

I'm not saying the European model is not without problems, but in terms of achieving good health and financial outcomes, which are the two most important tasks for patients and policy makers, respectively, the American model just doesn't cut it. Not to mention having a nationalized health system makes it a lot easier to conduct population based epidemiological research. In other words, I don't understand the purpose of this debate when one model clearly does a better job. This debate should have been settled long ago.
 
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I'm not saying the European model is not without problems, but in terms of achieving good health and financial outcomes, which are the two most important tasks for patients and policy makers, respectively, the American model just doesn't cut it. Not to mention having a nationalized health system makes it a lot easier to conduct population based epidemiological research. In other words, I don't understand the purpose of this debate when one model clearly does a better job. This debate should have been settled long ago.

You're forgetting about the physicians. Switching to a national health system will reduce physician payments by a significant amount, something common to other countries with some form of national health system with an individual mandate. Over half of US medical schools are private, with commensurate tuition to boot; you're not going to garner much support for reducing PCP pay to low $100k when you can come out with nearly $300k in student loans that are quickly accruing interest.

Without such payment reductions, cost-containment will be a major hindrance to a national health system. Massachusetts has tried, and it's costs are going way higher than projected. There are just too many systems to unite under one banner (HMOs, PPOs, medical record systems, infrastructure) in this very heterogeneous country.
 
You know what's also scientific? Showing your work (i.e. the literature). I can't find one argument you've backed by fact. For example, "It is the scientifically correct view" and "Anybody with training in public health would tell you," are examples of the logical fallacy, appeal to populations. Now, I'm only saying all of this because you claim to be backed by science but have completely ignored it in all of your arguments.
 
Not to mention having a nationalized health system makes it a lot easier to conduct population based epidemiological research.

It's just like you said earlier, people want their freedom, whether it's to choose their insurance or to have some form of privacy. I'm all for collecting data and know its usefulness in planning public health interventions (note: I'm working in a public health department right now), but it's not worth alienating the population to get it.
 
I couldn't find a concise, unbiased answer to this topic. I know it's a common interview question so thanks for your help...

What is the current status of healthcare in U.S. and what are some of the challenges it's facing and how would you react as a physician?

Not concise nor unbiased.... But

Healthcare isn't sustainable, we spend the most and only rank 38th (ish) by WHO rankings. So the ROI is horrible..


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You know what's also scientific? Showing your work (i.e. the literature). I can't find one argument you've backed by fact. For example, "It is the scientifically correct view" and "Anybody with training in public health would tell you," are examples of the logical fallacy, appeal to populations. Now, I'm only saying all of this because you claim to be backed by science but have completely ignored it in all of your arguments.

If you don't believe me, believe the WHO. There you can see how bad or life expectancy, morbidity and mortality rates are. Also, you will be able to find that the US is very inefficient in healthcare delivery

http://www.who.int/whosis/whostat/2010/en/index.html


It's just like you said earlier, people want their freedom, whether it's to choose their insurance or to have some form of privacy. I'm all for collecting data and know its usefulness in planning public health interventions (note: I'm working in a public health department right now), but it's not worth alienating the population to get it.

You are not alienating anybody. I don't see Britons complaining about having their NHS records stored away. In the US, your health records are stored too, just not at a national level.
 
Another piece of the picture (and one that I think DidierDrogba fails to take into consideration) is that not only do we spend more per capita on health care in the USA (see my previous post in this thread), but we also have some of the highest rates of obesity, diabetes, alcohol abuse, and stress of all industrialized countries.

Having lived in Europe for a time, I can tell you that one glaring difference that I noticed was that a significantly higher portion of the population is physically fit compared to what you'll find in the states. The average Portuguese diet is also much healthier than what you eat in the USA. People don't eat out often, and they eat fast food even less frequently.

To pretend that this fact doesn't contribute to outcomes in the USA vs. Europe is a mistake.

We demand tech, and medical advances, yet we refuse to take care of ourselves. We're just lazy when it comes right down to it.

Just yesterday I had a discussion with a neighbor who's had major knee pain for like 8 years. He's now afraid to go in to a doctor because he's waited so long, doesn't want to answer to why he didn't come in sooner. When he does finally go, he'll have a much more involved course of treatment than he would have had he not allowed such damage to build up. This is not uncommon in the USA.

Let me be clear that I support the nationalization of healthcare in the USA to a degree. But I'm not so blind as to imagine that it's the single biggest thing that's keeping our health status down. I don't even think it's a significant factor really.

To me, the nationalization of health care is a matter of social justice. I think that by expanding our nation's Community Health Centers, and reigning in our rapid pace of technical advancement in medicine (meaning that just because the newest MRI plays pandora radio while you get scanned doesn't mean you have to have it right now), we could make a big dent in both cost of care, while improving the socioeconomic status of the nation's poor.

I think it's going to take a major overhaul of the american lifestyle before we rise in the health rankings much.

I think you'll be pleased with your choice to attend SOMA Didierdrogba, sounds like you will fit in with the CHC model well.
 
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If you don't believe me, believe the WHO. There you can see how bad or life expectancy, morbidity and mortality rates are. Also, you will be able to find that the US is very inefficient in healthcare delivery

http://www.who.int/whosis/whostat/2010/en/index.html

Congrats, you just proved the United States the country has very poor health overall. There's this thing we call confounding factors, which cause data to skewer for whatever reason. In this case, the problem isn't the healthcare system, it's our addiction to high calorie, high fat and high sugar foods that are much more readily available than in any other country in the world.



You are not alienating anybody. I don't see Britons complaining about having their NHS records stored away. In the US, your health records are stored too, just not at a national level.

Ever heard of this thing called Google? Remember the uproar on March 1st when Google said they would start consolidating data about its users? Remember how Apple got reamed for tracking its Iphone users? That was just basic information. Imagine how people will feel when it's their most personal information, which they lie about to everyone including their doctors.

Also, you should try walking a day in a data collector's shoes. One of my tasks was to call schools to ask them for a contact phone number so the department could provide information regarding any public health outbreaks (i.e. pertussis). That was like pulling teeth, especially considering the fact that I could find the information easily (i.e. how I called them in the first place).
 
One thing I forgot to add. Why the hell are we having this debate? The OP is clearly looking for someone else to do his/her work for him. I remember when I interviewed, I had to do all of this myself.
 
One thing I forgot to add. Why the hell are we having this debate? The OP is clearly looking for someone else to do his/her work for him. I remember when I interviewed, I had to do all of this myself.

DANN IT!!!! I didn't think of that... SILENCE!!!

So why DO?


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I think the problem here is, many Americans grow up in an environment that emphasizes freedom, including the freedom of choosing what kind of health insurance they want; the Republican proposal definitely promises that. However, as future physicians, it is our responsibility to evaluate situations scientifically. In medicine, patients' health outcomes are the primary objective, and I must say, the European model is definitely doing a better job in obtaining better health outcomes in patients; this is supported by an incredible amount of science and this fact will not change no matter how unbiased one is.

i don't want to continue the debate because this isn't a thread for debate, but you keep bringing up "better healthcare." I ask again, why should we accept "better healthcare?" We pay most, we have the best healthcare available, why not shoot for the best system? A system where patients and physicians are happy with the quality of care. I go back to the 'smoking a half a pack vs. two packs a day' example I used previously. Why should we fight to improve to a system that is still bad, just less bad? Why not get a system that is good?

And you also keep saying that scientifically Europe is better than the US. This is not only subjective, but based on an overall WHO ranking. I maintain that a perfect system where patients are happy with the quality of care they receive, doctors are happy with the care they are providing, patients are happy with the cost, doctors are happy with the income, hospitals are happy with the coverage, patients are happy with the efficiency, and many other issues, cannot be achieved through an exclusively government run system. Fair competition drives quality up and costs down.

Though I am 100% for a universal system.
 
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Fair competition drives quality up and costs down? isn't this what the US tries to do but has zero success?
 
why is anyone even answering this question for the OP?
we all answered this question and dealt with it on our own, we all have unlimited acess to the info on the internet, if you can make a post on student doctor you can go out their and do some research, find some great books, take the time to actually read them and come to a conclusion...you cant wikipedia everything, believe me, i tried it for these questions lol
 
Fair competition drives quality up and costs down? isn't this what the US tries to do but has zero success?

no, we have unfair competition right now. insurance companies can operate almost entirely unchecked. and while they have competition amongst themselves, the competition doesn't have a fair standard. It is like if we let steroids in sports. People would get more and more jacked up that it would be impossible for anyone to enter sports without steroids. But then sports would be awesome.
 
why is anyone even answering this question for the OP?
we all answered this question and dealt with it on our own, we all have unlimited acess to the info on the internet, if you can make a post on student doctor you can go out their and do some research, find some great books, take the time to actually read them and come to a conclusion...you cant wikipedia everything, believe me, i tried it for these questions lol

because some people actually like talking about healthcare, and there is a lot of bad information out there. if you aren't interested in the conversation, I invite you to withdraw your participation.
 
no, we have unfair competition right now. insurance companies can operate almost entirely unchecked. and while they have competition amongst themselves, the competition doesn't have a fair standard. It is like if we let steroids in sports. People would get more and more jacked up that it would be impossible for anyone to enter sports without steroids. But then sports would be awesome.

It's a business they make money for there shareholders, feel free to make a nonprofit insurance company and save the world.


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It's a business they make money for there shareholders, feel free to make a nonprofit insurance company and save the world.


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And that is the problem and what I should have said. Right now we have a for profit system with the main priority of making profits to appease shareholders. You cannot provide fair and quality care with profits being the primary concern.

That is why a nonprofit system would save the world. Just enforcing a nonprofit system would require world peace and end violence everywhere.
 
And that is the problem and what I should have said. Right now we have a for profit system with the main priority of making profits to appease shareholders. You cannot provide fair and quality care with profits being the primary concern.

That is why a nonprofit system would save the world. Just enforcing a nonprofit system would require world peace and end violence everywhere.

I tend to agree but let's be honest are people going to want and save the world? People make to much money with war and violence. The world is never going to be utopia.

Also there's no real break for non profits to start up in the insurance world. Sure nonprofit hospitals dominate the landscape but capital is hard to come by and at least they get a tax break.

So sorry all you patch Adam fans


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France and Switzerland have a competition-based model that works very well - there is complete patient freedom. Heck, even Taiwan has a system that works:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89651916
At the end of the 20th century, Taiwan became a rich country, almost overnight. But it still had a poor country's health care - about half the population had no coverage at all... The government consulted experts from around the world... They wanted a system that gave everybody equal access to health care - free choice of doctors, with no waiting time - and a system that encouraged a lot of competition among medical providers. To finance the scheme they chose a national insurance system: a single, government-run fund that forces everybody to join in and pay. The result is a system that works a lot like Canada's, or like the U.S. Medicare system, but with more benefits. Everybody here has to have a smart card to go to the doctor. The doctor puts it in a reader and the patient's history and medications all show up on the screen. The bill goes directly to the government insurance office and is paid automatically. So Taiwan has the lowest administrative costs in world: less than 2 percent... Surveys show the Taiwanese are highly satisfied with their health care. Plus, no one goes bankrupt because of medical bills...
 
I tend to agree but let's be honest are people going to want and save the world? People make to much money with war and violence. The world is never going to be utopia.

Also there's no real break for non profits to start up in the insurance world. Sure nonprofit hospitals dominate the landscape but capital is hard to come by and at least they get a tax break.

So sorry all you patch Adam fans


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And I completely agree with you. Worldwide, people praise their health care system while simultaneously demanding reform. No matter how smoothly a system is running it will be hated by some. And I don't think we should start up new non profits to drive competition. I think we need to reform the companies we have. If we are going with opinions, I think a regulating body of some kind should come in and say, "here is a standard, universal, basic coverage that is available to everyone that you cannot deny that is offered exclusively as non-profit, and in turn, we will enforce a universal payment to ensure a large enough pool to remain solvent." Everything above and beyond this can be considered for profit. And the regulating body would like be government, but would including patients, physicians, republicans, democrats, hospital administrators, social workers, basically everyone that would have input. They would determine a basic coverage standard. And tort reform is a must. This gives everyone health care so people aren't dying from curable and preventable diseases or problems, and it also gives people the option to buy better healthcare if they wish.

France and Switzerland have a competition-based model that works very well - there is complete patient freedom. Heck, even Taiwan has a system that works:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=89651916
At the end of the 20th century, Taiwan became a rich country, almost overnight. But it still had a poor country's health care - about half the population had no coverage at all... The government consulted experts from around the world... They wanted a system that gave everybody equal access to health care - free choice of doctors, with no waiting time - and a system that encouraged a lot of competition among medical providers. To finance the scheme they chose a national insurance system: a single, government-run fund that forces everybody to join in and pay. The result is a system that works a lot like Canada's, or like the U.S. Medicare system, but with more benefits. Everybody here has to have a smart card to go to the doctor. The doctor puts it in a reader and the patient's history and medications all show up on the screen. The bill goes directly to the government insurance office and is paid automatically. So Taiwan has the lowest administrative costs in world: less than 2 percent... Surveys show the Taiwanese are highly satisfied with their health care. Plus, no one goes bankrupt because of medical bills...

and many of these countries do it at the expense of the physician. It is easy to talk about health care reform for the patient, but as a future physician, I would really like to do it without screwing myself over long term. And many of these countries pay their doctors less but also don't charge (or charge minimally) for education. We don't have that here, and I don't want to make $150k as an orthopedic surgeon and a $250k debt load.
 
I think the problem here is, many Americans grow up in an environment that emphasizes freedom, including the freedom of choosing what kind of health insurance they want; the Republican proposal definitely promises that. However, as future physicians, it is our responsibility to evaluate situations scientifically. In medicine, patients' health outcomes are the primary objective, and I must say, the European model is definitely doing a better job in obtaining better health outcomes in patients; this is supported by an incredible amount of science and this fact will not change no matter how unbiased one is.

I'd like to see some solid statistics regarding this along with this incredible amount of science that you speak of. And please do not post stats showing life expectancies or the percentages of people with certain conditions and diseases; such numbers are not directly indicative of the efficiency of a healthcare system. To assume such is to completely neglect drastically influential factors that contribute to over-all health- lifestyle and cultural differences being some of the most important. While I do agree that our citizens have a right to healthcare, the issues will not be solved with a complete overhaul of the current system.

I doubt you will find that the European model is doing a better job in terms of outcomes directly related to the practice of medicine, i.e. medical intervention. However, I do not doubt that the average European lifestyle is much more conducive towards overall better health. This has very little to do with medicine and more to do with the bigger picture, one that goes far beyond the realms of physicians, hospitals, and insurance plans.

Some of the biggest issues this country faces in terms of healthcare is individual responsibility, which is lacking drastically at the time. Our issues with obesity are not the results of ineffective medicine. It comes down to individual choices made by people on a daily basis. Instead of looking at oneself as the source of the problem and the agent for change, most choose to find an outward source of blame and/or solution. Some will go as far as using it as an excuse to label the entire system as defective and in need of a complete overhaul.

A lot of the healthcare issues we face are certainly not the result of ineffective healthcare, although those in favor of big government's socialized medicine will pitch it as such in support of their one-size-fits-all healthcare system. We do need to make some changes, without a doubt. A European model is not the change we need however.
 
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Reform works but it's expensive look at Mass. they have nearly 98% coverage but spend more per patient than any other state. Something like 5k per incident. I will dig up a paper a wrote a few months ago for one of my MBA classes. To get my facts right- on my phone so will post it later


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Without going too far into my political rant, healthcare should be an issue on the level of the state. If each state can determine a method that could work for its population and implement said plan, we would have an array of options basically being tested simultaneously across the country. Some may work while others may fail miserably, and still more would probably sit in the middle and find themselves in need of improvement. At least there would be the opportunity to make comparisons and highlight areas that are effective vs those that could use improvement. It's a lot better than some one size fits all attempt or using another nation's model. American problems require American solutions. (hehehe... sorry, had to throw that in there; at least I'm not chanting USA... USA...).

{stepping down from my soapbox}
 
i don't want to continue the debate because this isn't a thread for debate, but you keep bringing up "better healthcare." I ask again, why should we accept "better healthcare?" We pay most, we have the best healthcare available, why not shoot for the best system? A system where patients and physicians are happy with the quality of care. I go back to the 'smoking a half a pack vs. two packs a day' example I used previously. Why should we fight to improve to a system that is still bad, just less bad? Why not get a system that is good?

And you also keep saying that scientifically Europe is better than the US. This is not only subjective, but based on an overall WHO ranking. I maintain that a perfect system where patients are happy with the quality of care they receive, doctors are happy with the care they are providing, patients are happy with the cost, doctors are happy with the income, hospitals are happy with the coverage, patients are happy with the efficiency, and many other issues, cannot be achieved through an exclusively government run system. Fair competition drives quality up and costs down.

Though I am 100% for a universal system.

👍 all of it.
 
oh yes bc talking here is gonna make a difference
 
The solution to all of this was presented today to me by a psychiatrist. He sees patients, outpatient only, for cash-money. He doesn't accept Medicaid or medicare. No money, no tx.
 
The solution to all of this was presented today to me by a psychiatrist. He sees patients, outpatient only, for cash-money. He doesn't accept Medicaid or medicare. No money, no tx.

Yes because this is possible for all specialties. No cash? No heart surgery for you (read in soup nazis voice)


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Some of the biggest issues this country faces in terms of healthcare is individual responsibility, which is lacking drastically at the time. Our issues with obesity are not the results of ineffective medicine. It comes down to individual choices made by people on a daily basis. Instead of looking at oneself as the source of the problem and the agent for change, most choose to find an outward source of blame and/or solution. Some will go as far as using it as an excuse to label the entire system as defective and in need of a complete overhaul.

Kind of, but not entirely. If you weigh yourself every week, you can see little changes and make adjustments accordingly. But if you weigh yourself once every year, you may eat like crap and gain 50 pounds at which point it becomes overwhelming. This is analogous to medicine. Health insurance companies don't pay for preventive care, people don't have insurance, so people don't see their doctor. Regular check ups keeps a person accountable, Some of this is person dependent, but some is not.

Another personal example. I work for a trucking company and like most trucking companies, my employer provided healthcare says, "you are required by law to get a yearly DOT physical, so we aren't paying to see your own physician." So now this comes entirely out of pocket. And I have had yearly DOT physicals for about 6 years and never have I had the same physician. And in every single physical, I have never been talked to about weight, diet, exercise, or any other healthy lifestyle options. The physician is exclusively concerned with whether or not i can survive my job without killing others. That is it. And because of the lifestyle, I would argue that truckers are the group of people that need these talks the most out of anyone. So it does come down to personal responsibility, but not entirely.

Reform works but it's expensive look at Mass. they have nearly 98% coverage but spend more per patient than any other state. Something like 5k per incident. I will dig up a paper a wrote a few months ago for one of my MBA classes. To get my facts right- on my phone so will post it later


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yep, and i will address below.

Without going too far into my political rant, healthcare should be an issue on the level of the state. If each state can determine a method that could work for its population and implement said plan, we would have an array of options basically being tested simultaneously across the country. Some may work while others may fail miserably, and still more would probably sit in the middle and find themselves in need of improvement. At least there would be the opportunity to make comparisons and highlight areas that are effective vs those that could use improvement. It's a lot better than some one size fits all attempt or using another nation's model. American problems require American solutions. (hehehe... sorry, had to throw that in there; at least I'm not chanting USA... USA...).

{stepping down from my soapbox}

it is a good idea, but the execution is poor. the problem with doing it on a state level is that right now we have so many uninsured with preexisting conditions that no state would take them. And if they were forced to, the pool isn't large enough and the companies would go bankrupt almost instantly. And without forcing the insurance companies to cover them, we will never have healthcare for all without forcing the people who can afford it to pay for those that can't. I would argue that most people don't want to pay for the poor without the poor paying anything.

secondly, this would work is people were then not allowed to move between states. If a system is great for the poor in one state, the poor will flock to this state and it will become quickly overwhelmed by not only healthcare, but population and unemployment. and if a state is good for the rich, they will flock their and cause other problems because they will want to take their businesses, but the employees wouldn't want to go because they can't afford the health insurance.

thirdly, we kind of have that now by not letting insurance companies to cross state lines. I don't fully understand this, but from what I understand it is largely location dependent, but it doesn't solve the problems we have.

So this is why I think there needs to be a universal system in the form of a governing body. without forcing healthcare coverage, we don't solve the problem of uninsured. allowing free reign only gives people reasons to NOT insure people. and the pool needs to be large enough (the entire nation) to keep insurance companies from going under. Or we need a government paid for universal system and to get rid of insurance companies entirely. You can support this idea all you want, but if you think that is going to pass it congress, you are high.


And thanks to all for a good discussion. It is so rare that people are actually involved and even rarer when future health care professionals are involved. It is good to see another side.
 
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Yes because this is possible for all specialties. No cash? No heart surgery for you (read in soup nazis voice)


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+1

The solution to all of this was presented today to me by a psychiatrist. He sees patients, outpatient only, for cash-money. He doesn't accept Medicaid or medicare. No money, no tx.

This works great for psychiatrists, plastic surgeons, dermatologists, even dentists. But if we are going to pay minimum wage for any jobs, this isn't feasible for any of the other specialties (speaking in large terms, not just those doctors who cater exclusively to the wealthy). If people are forced to pay cash for a family physician it is only going to exacerbate the problem, definitely not solve.
 
oh yes bc talking here is gonna make a difference

it will make a difference. if you learn something, anything at all, from this thread, it will affect how you make decisions and vote in the future. It will help you shape your own opinions. And action starts with the people. if you don't care, don't read the thread, but don't bitch about the health care system being screwed up if you aren't going to take an active interest.

this mentality is the problem. too may people say, "it won't make a difference."
 
Health insurance companies don't pay for preventive care, people don't have insurance, so people don't see their doctor. Regular check ups keeps a person accountable, Some of this is person dependent, but some is not.

I agree. This is an area where we do need a bit of tweaking. But do you think people will make the time for regular check ups when all seems well? I'm skeptical as to how many would take advantage of the opportunity to do so.

Another personal example. I work for a trucking company and like most trucking companies, my employer provided healthcare says, "you are required by law to get a yearly DOT physical, so we aren't paying to see your own physician." So now this comes entirely out of pocket. And I have had yearly DOT physicals for about 6 years and never have I had the same physician. And in every single physical, I have never been talked to about weight, diet, exercise, or any other healthy lifestyle options. The physician is exclusively concerned with whether or not i can survive my job without killing others. That is it. And because of the lifestyle, I would argue that truckers are the group of people that need these talks the most out of anyone. So it does come down to personal responsibility, but not entirely.

I'm not shocked to read this, but it still bothers me. I guess the physician feels that the purpose of your visit is for the DOT physical and that alone. This a flawed approach by these docs IMO but do they have the time to actually speak with you about these issues? Are they truly pressed on time to make it into the black so to speak? I myself have a problem with the approach that the physician will address only the problems/situation that the patient has come in for. Example: my wife has been to the OB/GYN weekly now that she is close to her due date. Her ears have been ringing and she was experiencing a bit of vertigo at some point. When she noted this to her OB/GYN, the physician had no opinion, asked no questions, and showed very little concern saying "oh, that's for your PCP, I can't help you." I can totally see recommending the PCP, in fact I expected it, but my wife's concerns were shot down without hesitation. This happened with 2 different docs at the practice on separate occasions. This mentality predominates and I'm too green in this process to understand exactly why.

it is a good idea, but the execution is poor. the problem with doing it on a state level is that right now we have so many uninsured with preexisting conditions that no state would take them. And if they were forced to, the pool isn't large enough and the companies would go bankrupt almost instantly. And without forcing the insurance companies to cover them, we will never have healthcare for all without forcing the people who can afford it to pay for those that can't. I would argue that most people don't want to pay for the poor without the poor paying anything.

I can see this to some degree, and I admittedly have much to learn about the insurance system. Could reform include both federal and state? Maybe have certain options open that could be determined at the level of state, so that it could be tweaked according to a state's needs? I just feel a one-size-fits-all approach would be too general to work effectively across the board.

secondly, this would work is people were then not allowed to move between states. If a system is great for the poor in one state, the poor will flock to this state and it will become quickly overwhelmed by not only healthcare, but population and unemployment. and if a state is good for the rich, they will flock their and cause other problems because they will want to take their businesses, but the employees wouldn't want to go because they can't afford the health insurance.

I actually thought about this as I was typing away before. I'm not sure if a drastic migration would ensue, especially for the sake of healthcare. I think people would follow employment first, which should (must IMO) include medical insurance, but I see what you are saying and how it could be a problem.

And thanks to all for a good discussion. It is so rare that people are actually involved and even rarer when future health care professionals are involved. It is good to see another side.

👍 word up to that.
 
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@Dharma (just so I don't have to quote the whole post)

I do think it will make a drastic difference. Not for everyone of course, but in countries with socialized medicine, or with insurers that promote preventive care, people (on average) see their physician as much as 5 times per year. Japan I think was 14 times per year. Is America inherently different? Maybe. They may not see the doctor any more (once every few years), but the statistics from elsewhere say they would.

The doctors don't care. I made special note one day of a doctor who didn't even look me in the eyes. Not once. "Any issues with breathing?" Nope. "Ok, no need for further tests." The entire physical was like this. And my direct supervisor happens to be a friend from another job, and he said they contract out the cheapest occmed services around as a company, and they say, "this is what we'll pay." And I work for a very large company so the occmed facility agrees to the set amount because of the volume. This is directly analogous to socialized medicine. If the government says, "this is what we pay" and the physician has no choice but the accept the crap reimbursement, he could take it out on the patient by increasing volume and spending less time both physically and mentally on patients which undoubtedly hurts the patient long term. It snowballs out of control and we aren't better off.

I agree that a drastic migration may not occur. That was more hypothetical. It wwould definitely occur in states at either end of the spectrum, and not so much in the middle, however it could also mean more states move to one en.
 
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