Current Vets and Vet students: WWYD?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Cowsrcool

Full Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2023
Messages
1,072
Reaction score
1,914
Hi everyone. Been having a lot weigh on my heart, brain, and conscious lately. Need to hear from current graduates, vet students, and those with years into the workforce. If you were applying now, what is your best advice to navigate all of the craziness surrounding the possible elimination of income driven repayment plans, grad plus loans, and the current state of the field. Saw an article saying for 2025 the hottest career is a veterinarian. Wondering how they came up with this 😭 it’s so hard for me to see past all the doom and gloom of what ifs and commit to any school (given currently my only feasible option is over 400k loans wise). Would you wait it out a few years? Would you attend now? Would you only go for your IS option even if given an OOS option? I know it’s all circumstantial and subjective for each person but I need some help.

Members don't see this ad.
 
I remember being a pre-vet and just wanting to get in somewhere no matter the cost. Being a vet felt like a calling. And now that I’m on the other side…it’s just a job to pay the bills. Do I enjoy my career? Yes. But is it worth the current extreme price tags? No. Could I have been happy in another career? Likely yes, though I wouldn’t have believed that/thought that as a pre-vet. But it really is just a job. And there’s no shame in changing paths to something more affordable and sustainable. It’s hard to give up the dream, but the world won’t end if you do choose to pursue something else.

I’d decide what you’re willing to pay and then stay firmly within that budget. For me, that number would be about 250k max. Any more, and it’s just not worth the risk. At a 2:1 debt to income ratio it’s usually doable to pay the loans off and you won’t necessarily need forgiveness. I realize not many schools are under 250k anymore, but if that means you only apply to the instate or a few schools, it is what it is. I would not pay 400+ personally. It’s not worth it to me.

I don’t personally think income based repayment plans will go away completely…too many people rely on those. They may be changed and have different parameters, but they’ve been changing with each administration for years. If gradplus loans get eliminated and you’ve started school, the only real option will be private loans or quit unless you’re independently wealthy or there’s a new option proposed, so that’s when going to the cheapest school will be absolutely critical.

The state of the field is a concern for me, especially as need dwindles but there’s all these new schools about to be pumping out grads. But on the other hand, there’s always been an ebb and flow to the profession. The issue is, with increasing loan burdens, it’s harder for people to weather the “thin” times when the field is in a down swing, especially if income based repayment changes in significant ways. It very well could drive salaries down and make job quality of life more difficult because if you won’t tolerate something, they’ll find someone desperate for a job who will (and likely pay them less too). Things will probably improve over time, but who knows when or how.

Overall, I have a hard time recommending the field to people. But I’m not sure that waiting will magically fix things, and by waiting you’re delaying your income potential and all that. So I guess my advice would really be to pick something else or just commit and be prepared for the ride (with the caveats above relating to costs), since I think there’s even more unknowns if you were to wait and just hope it turns around at some point.

There’s always uncertainty in life and sometimes you just have to make a decision and hope for the best. I’m not facing this issue in regards to school, but I was planning to build a new house this fall. And now, I’m unsure if I can afford it with all these tariffs and a potential trade war. So different situations, but in a way it’s similar…do I wait, just do it because prices probably won’t come down in the end, or what? So tough life decisions don’t end after the decision to go to vet school or not…there’s always something else!
 
Hi everyone. Been having a lot weigh on my heart, brain, and conscious lately. Need to hear from current graduates, vet students, and those with years into the workforce. If you were applying now, what is your best advice to navigate all of the craziness surrounding the possible elimination of income driven repayment plans, grad plus loans, and the current state of the field. Saw an article saying for 2025 the hottest career is a veterinarian. Wondering how they came up with this 😭 it’s so hard for me to see past all the doom and gloom of what ifs and commit to any school (given currently my only feasible option is over 400k loans wise). Would you wait it out a few years? Would you attend now? Would you only go for your IS option even if given an OOS option? I know it’s all circumstantial and subjective for each person but I need some help.
Thank you @Cowsrcool - these questions are everything I am living and wondering. This has been my dream, I'm accepted now which was the first and largest hurdle but I don't yet know about my in state. How can I possibly move forward with 400K worth of loans given the current news on loan programs? What do people think about deferring for a year until the dust settles? Or will the dust be a storm in a year? I know nobody has a crystal ball but what is everyone thinking?
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I remember being a pre-vet and just wanting to get in somewhere no matter the cost. Being a vet felt like a calling. And now that I’m on the other side…it’s just a job to pay the bills. Do I enjoy my career? Yes. But is it worth the current extreme price tags? No. Could I have been happy in another career? Likely yes, though I wouldn’t have believed that/thought that as a pre-vet. But it really is just a job. And there’s no shame in changing paths to something more affordable and sustainable. It’s hard to give up the dream, but the world won’t end if you do choose to pursue something else.

I’d decide what you’re willing to pay and then stay firmly within that budget. For me, that number would be about 250k max. Any more, and it’s just not worth the risk. At a 2:1 debt to income ratio it’s usually doable to pay the loans off and you won’t necessarily need forgiveness. I realize not many schools are under 250k anymore, but if that means you only apply to the instate or a few schools, it is what it is. I would not pay 400+ personally. It’s not worth it to me.

I don’t personally think income based repayment plans will go away completely…too many people rely on those. They may be changed and have different parameters, but they’ve been changing with each administration for years. If gradplus loans get eliminated and you’ve started school, the only real option will be private loans or quit unless you’re independently wealthy or there’s a new option proposed, so that’s when going to the cheapest school will be absolutely critical.

The state of the field is a concern for me, especially as need dwindles but there’s all these new schools about to be pumping out grads. But on the other hand, there’s always been an ebb and flow to the profession. The issue is, with increasing loan burdens, it’s harder for people to weather the “thin” times when the field is in a down swing, especially if income based repayment changes in significant ways. It very well could drive salaries down and make job quality of life more difficult because if you won’t tolerate something, they’ll find someone desperate for a job who will (and likely pay them less too). Things will probably improve over time, but who knows when or how.

Overall, I have a hard time recommending the field to people. But I’m not sure that waiting will magically fix things, and by waiting you’re delaying your income potential and all that. So I guess my advice would really be to pick something else or just commit and be prepared for the ride (with the caveats above relating to costs), since I think there’s even more unknowns if you were to wait and just hope it turns around at some point.

There’s always uncertainty in life and sometimes you just have to make a decision and hope for the best. I’m not facing this issue in regards to school, but I was planning to build a new house this fall. And now, I’m unsure if I can afford it with all these tariffs and a potential trade war. So different situations, but in a way it’s similar…do I wait, just do it because prices probably won’t come down in the end, or what? So tough life decisions don’t end after the decision to go to vet school or not…there’s always something else!
thanks for the insight @JaynaAli
 
I remember being a pre-vet and just wanting to get in somewhere no matter the cost. Being a vet felt like a calling. And now that I’m on the other side…it’s just a job to pay the bills. Do I enjoy my career? Yes. But is it worth the current extreme price tags? No. Could I have been happy in another career? Likely yes, though I wouldn’t have believed that/thought that as a pre-vet. But it really is just a job. And there’s no shame in changing paths to something more affordable and sustainable. It’s hard to give up the dream, but the world won’t end if you do choose to pursue something else.

I’d decide what you’re willing to pay and then stay firmly within that budget. For me, that number would be about 250k max. Any more, and it’s just not worth the risk. At a 2:1 debt to income ratio it’s usually doable to pay the loans off and you won’t necessarily need forgiveness. I realize not many schools are under 250k anymore, but if that means you only apply to the instate or a few schools, it is what it is. I would not pay 400+ personally. It’s not worth it to me.

I don’t personally think income based repayment plans will go away completely…too many people rely on those. They may be changed and have different parameters, but they’ve been changing with each administration for years. If gradplus loans get eliminated and you’ve started school, the only real option will be private loans or quit unless you’re independently wealthy or there’s a new option proposed, so that’s when going to the cheapest school will be absolutely critical.

The state of the field is a concern for me, especially as need dwindles but there’s all these new schools about to be pumping out grads. But on the other hand, there’s always been an ebb and flow to the profession. The issue is, with increasing loan burdens, it’s harder for people to weather the “thin” times when the field is in a down swing, especially if income based repayment changes in significant ways. It very well could drive salaries down and make job quality of life more difficult because if you won’t tolerate something, they’ll find someone desperate for a job who will (and likely pay them less too). Things will probably improve over time, but who knows when or how.

Overall, I have a hard time recommending the field to people. But I’m not sure that waiting will magically fix things, and by waiting you’re delaying your income potential and all that. So I guess my advice would really be to pick something else or just commit and be prepared for the ride (with the caveats above relating to costs), since I think there’s even more unknowns if you were to wait and just hope it turns around at some point.

There’s always uncertainty in life and sometimes you just have to make a decision and hope for the best. I’m not facing this issue in regards to school, but I was planning to build a new house this fall. And now, I’m unsure if I can afford it with all these tariffs and a potential trade war. So different situations, but in a way it’s similar…do I wait, just do it because prices probably won’t come down in the end, or what? So tough life decisions don’t end after the decision to go to vet school or not…there’s always something else!
Thank you so much for this thoughtful response. I completely agree with everything you’ve said and sometimes I just need someone to reinforce my brain😭 I agree with setting limits. 400k+ is absolutely out of my wheelhouse. Appreciate you taking the time to answer <3
 
I had both the luxury and the disadvantage of coming from a different career path first. I was on the path to be a musician, likely getting my main income from business work in the industry, less performance. I worked my butt off and got every scholarship, every grant, every cent of my work study and ended up graduating with $37k of undergrad debt. The truth of the matter was I was miserable. I love music, but if you think vet med is toxic, spend some time around musicians. I was emotionally, verbally, and physically abused by instructors and conductors basically starting at 15.

I supported myself through undergrad, my parents couldn't contribute a single cent. I grew up poor, saved my pennies, and paid what I could out of pocket. When I decided to go to vet school, every frugal cell in my body exploded at the thought. I could hear my mom telling me to pick the cheapest college, no matter what, and keep loans low. I worked so hard to keep my debt down, I worked to keep my credit score up, and for what?

The for what, it turned out, was so I didn't have to worry quite as much about vet school. I recognize that while I did not come from a privileged background, I worked hard and got myself into a privileged financial situation. My undergrad debt was around $31k when I got into vet school, less than half of what my spouse left school with.

Nowadays, I can't imagine myself doing anything else. Even just being in my first year, I miss clinical work. I miss patients, clients, and practicing medicine. I never ever thought I would miss a job so much my heart hurt a little bit but I miss my old clinic more than anything. If things stay the same each semester, I'll be leaving Minnesota with about $340-$375k in debt. ($42k/semester with some cushion for the clinical summer, plus my $31k of undergrad, even though I've been working part time my whole first year). It's a daunting number, but I also have a spouse who (finally!) got a job and is willing to take on more of the household expenses.

I cannot imagine doing this on my own as a single person. A huge portion of my class, more than I thought would be, is partnered or married, with their SO taking on as many expenses as reasonable. If you are doing this one your own, get a roommate, go to your cheapest school (within reason, I've said my piece in other forums on deciding what your mental health and the comfort of your next four years are worth to you), and save up as much as you can beforehand. And I hate to say this, but if you don't have pets, go ahead and volunteer or foster, but don't get one in school. My cats have cost well over $3500 since we moved here, and we would have been drowning if we didn't have insurance.

At the end of the day, every vet I worked with could afford housing, cars, children, pets, and a vacation or two each year, and of the ones I knew their financial background, most were upper lower/lower middle income people. You are a human being with a life. Within reason, money means nothing if you're not happy. If this is the thing you see yourself doing, if you will regret not doing it for the rest of your life, if you're constantly going to play the what game, do it.
 
I will not recommend becoming a veterinarian for the foreseeable future to anyone who isn't already on the path. I have an assistant that deserves the world and wants to become a vet. I'm hoping to help her get into human med school instead when her life rights itself.

I have a beautiful excel sheet with my monthly bills and income that I have zero problem sharing screenshots of later so you can see what a real life ER doctor (75/hr) makes before my husband became a stay at home dad and now after. I'm trialing until the end of March. If by the end of March it's not doable, I'm either going to have to increase my shifts, or my husband will have to go back to work. My husband graduated high school, did some community college, and then went into retail/hospitality. His take home even then was $100/day. So not a ton (1600/month) for reference.

I graduated with significantly less in loans because I used my sister's life insurance money. And I *still* quite possibly cannot support my household independently without IBR. If we needed daycare, we would be screwed because my husband would make as much as what daycare costs.

I'm normally not doom and gloom tbh. Realistic? Yes. Pessimistic? Meh.

Now I'm pessimistic. To be fair, these schools may not be opening now cause there won't be any money to open them with. Not enough rich kids will want to spend 400k to make 100-150k as a vet. Or at least their parents won't.

Vet med is in for a wild ride. At the beginning of the year when my established, solidly supported ER group started hearing grumbles from corporate about income, I know the less supported clinics were in for a bad time. I said it would be all these little urgent cares that opened in the last 2-3 years would be the first. And I was right.

There is going to be shrinkage, an influx of unemployed vets, and reduction in salaries as all these grads from 23 and 24 cannot produce to support their salaries. This will suck.
 
I will not recommend becoming a veterinarian for the foreseeable future to anyone who isn't already on the path. I have an assistant that deserves the world and wants to become a vet. I'm hoping to help her get into human med school instead when her life rights itself.

I have a beautiful excel sheet with my monthly bills and income that I have zero problem sharing screenshots of later so you can see what a real life ER doctor (75/hr) makes before my husband became a stay at home dad and now after. I'm trialing until the end of March. If by the end of March it's not doable, I'm either going to have to increase my shifts, or my husband will have to go back to work. My husband graduated high school, did some community college, and then went into retail/hospitality. His take home even then was $100/day. So not a ton (1600/month) for reference.

I graduated with significantly less in loans because I used my sister's life insurance money. And I *still* quite possibly cannot support my household independently without IBR. If we needed daycare, we would be screwed because my husband would make as much as what daycare costs.

I'm normally not doom and gloom tbh. Realistic? Yes. Pessimistic? Meh.

Now I'm pessimistic. To be fair, these schools may not be opening now cause there won't be any money to open them with. Not enough rich kids will want to spend 400k to make 100-150k as a vet. Or at least their parents won't.

Vet med is in for a wild ride. At the beginning of the year when my established, solidly supported ER group started hearing grumbles from corporate about income, I know the less supported clinics were in for a bad time. I said it would be all these little urgent cares that opened in the last 2-3 years would be the first. And I was right.

There is going to be shrinkage, an influx of unemployed vets, and reduction in salaries as all these grads from 23 and 24 cannot produce to support their salaries. This will suck

Thanks for your insight and time in response @battie.
 
I had both the luxury and the disadvantage of coming from a different career path first. I was on the path to be a musician, likely getting my main income from business work in the industry, less performance. I worked my butt off and got every scholarship, every grant, every cent of my work study and ended up graduating with $37k of undergrad debt. The truth of the matter was I was miserable. I love music, but if you think vet med is toxic, spend some time around musicians. I was emotionally, verbally, and physically abused by instructors and conductors basically starting at 15.

I supported myself through undergrad, my parents couldn't contribute a single cent. I grew up poor, saved my pennies, and paid what I could out of pocket. When I decided to go to vet school, every frugal cell in my body exploded at the thought. I could hear my mom telling me to pick the cheapest college, no matter what, and keep loans low. I worked so hard to keep my debt down, I worked to keep my credit score up, and for what?

The for what, it turned out, was so I didn't have to worry quite as much about vet school. I recognize that while I did not come from a privileged background, I worked hard and got myself into a privileged financial situation. My undergrad debt was around $31k when I got into vet school, less than half of what my spouse left school with.

Nowadays, I can't imagine myself doing anything else. Even just being in my first year, I miss clinical work. I miss patients, clients, and practicing medicine. I never ever thought I would miss a job so much my heart hurt a little bit but I miss my old clinic more than anything. If things stay the same each semester, I'll be leaving Minnesota with about $340-$375k in debt. ($42k/semester with some cushion for the clinical summer, plus my $31k of undergrad, even though I've been working part time my whole first year). It's a daunting number, but I also have a spouse who (finally!) got a job and is willing to take on more of the household expenses.

I cannot imagine doing this on my own as a single person. A huge portion of my class, more than I thought would be, is partnered or married, with their SO taking on as many expenses as reasonable. If you are doing this one your own, get a roommate, go to your cheapest school (within reason, I've said my piece in other forums on deciding what your mental health and the comfort of your next four years are worth to you), and save up as much as you can beforehand. And I hate to say this, but if you don't have pets, go ahead and volunteer or foster, but don't get one in school. My cats have cost well over $3500 since we moved here, and we would have been drowning if we didn't have insurance.

At the end of the day, every vet I worked with could afford housing, cars, children, pets, and a vacation or two each year, and of the ones I knew their financial background, most were upper lower/lower middle income people. You are a human being with a life. Within reason, money means nothing if you're not happy. If this is the thing you see yourself doing, if you will regret not doing it for the rest of your life, if you're constantly going to play the what game, do it.
Thanks for your time in response and insight @_rae_
 
I will not recommend becoming a veterinarian for the foreseeable future to anyone who isn't already on the path. I have an assistant that deserves the world and wants to become a vet. I'm hoping to help her get into human med school instead when her life rights itself.
I like that you specified this, battie. It's difficult to do a 180 on your life plans when you've already invested atleast 4 years of undergrad + experience in college and highschool to get to this point. It's always good to have a back-up plan incase things don't go your way, vet school has always been notoriously difficult to get into so even when I first started undergrad in 2020 my parents sat me down and said I can keep working towards this path but I needed to come to terms with the fact it might never happen.

I’d decide what you’re willing to pay and then stay firmly within that budget. For me, that number would be about 250k max. Any more, and it’s just not worth the risk. At a 2:1 debt to income ratio it’s usually doable to pay the loans off and you won’t necessarily need forgiveness. I realize not many schools are under 250k anymore, but if that means you only apply to the instate or a few schools, it is what it is. I would not pay 400+ personally. It’s not worth it to me.
This is relieving to hear. $250-$270k seems like such a daunting number but when you put it as a 2:1 ratio, it makes sense.

If you do not mind me asking, how much has tuition increased from your schools since you graduated? I'm sure it also varied year to year?
 
This is relieving to hear. $250-$270k seems like such a daunting number but when you put it as a 2:1 ratio, it makes sense.

If you do not mind me asking, how much has tuition increased from your schools since you graduated? I'm sure it also varied year to year?
Re: the 2:1, that’s the figure I’ve seen the VIN debt guy throw out…like if you keep it under a 2:1 ratio, even if you’re on income based repayment most of the time you’ll end up paying it off before forgiveness occurs in 20-25 years. I’m sure there are exceptions.

I only took out loans for tuition/fees. I’d had a full ride to undergrad and my parents paid my vet school living expenses. I worked in the path lab for spending money, books, etc. I was in vet school from 2011-2015 and tuition was ~18k/yr except fourth year which was 20k. I just checked, and IS tuition/fees (just tuition/fees) at my school is currently $24,400/yr. So they’ve increased 33%? Of course when you add in living expenses and all that it quickly rises, especially when you consider how fast cost of living has gone up since COVID times. I couldn’t tell you how much total cost of attendance has gone up since I didn’t borrow the full amount.

Most schools tuition goes up like 3% a year or something like that? I think my school might have “locked us in” and like, the rate you started at was what you kept all four years (except fourth year when you also went during summer, but it was still the same rate just more hours). So each class got an increase, but your rates weren’t hiked every year. Not sure if they still do that or if they increase rates on people every year.
 
Last edited:
Re: the 2:1, that’s the figure I’ve seen the VIN debt guy throw out…like if you keep it under a 2:1 ratio, even if you’re on income based repayment most of the time you’ll end up paying it off before forgiveness occurs in 20-25 years. I’m sure there are exceptions.

I only took out loans for tuition/fees. I’d had a full ride to undergrad and my parents paid my vet school living expenses. I worked in the path lab for spending money, books, etc. I was in vet school from 2011-2015 and tuition was ~18k/yr except fourth year which was 20k. I just checked, and IS tuition/fees (just tuition/fees) at my school is currently $24,400/yr. So they’ve increased 33%? Of course when you add in living expenses and all that it quickly rises, especially when you consider how fast cost of living has gone up since COVID times. I couldn’t tell you how much total cost of attendance has gone up since I didn’t borrow the full amount.

Somewhere I saw reference to a service/person that talks to people entering vet school and helps them think/navigate decisions on debt. Not the schools, but an independent company. I have consumed so much information during this application process, I can't remember where. And my handy all-encompassing spreadsheet does not have it noted 😡 - anybody have suggestions on advisors/resources?
 
Somewhere I saw reference to a service/person that talks to people entering vet school and helps them think/navigate decisions on debt. Not the schools, but an independent company. I have consumed so much information during this application process, I can't remember where. And my handy all-encompassing spreadsheet does not have it noted 😡 - anybody have suggestions on advisors/resources?
There is a cost of education tool and other resources on VIN. (VIN is the veterinary education network, it’s an online site) Some of it is free online, others are behind their paywall and you have to be a vet student or vet to be a member ( it’s free for vet students! But I think you have to have your school email address to get approved). Tony Bartles is their debt guru. He may have recordings on YouTube or podcasts or something I’m not sure. But VIN members can post their numbers and he’ll analyze them, talk about options, whether to pay off be go for forgiveness makes financial sense, etc. but it’s not really a prevet resource. There are Facebook groups relating to vets and debt, but I’m not sure if they let pre-vets in or not. Student loan planner has resources and some vet specific consultants, but they charge and again, I think it’s more for people who are in repayment. Other than the VIN simulator I’m not sure what’s out there for pre-vet students.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
I will not recommend becoming a veterinarian for the foreseeable future to anyone who isn't already on the path.
I think this is the key. I knew what I was getting into and did it anyway (regardless of whether that was a smart financial choice or not). Watching schools like Tuskegee flounder, watching the rising cost of IS tuitions (I know Tufts is private but I will absolutely die on the hill that their IS tuition is outrageous and a joke), seeing something like 8 or 9 schools open since I first applied back in 2021 makes me hesitant. I was on this path for almost 5 years. I didn't see a point in turning back, and I know a lot of people are in a similar boat as me.

since I didn’t borrow the full amount.
I know this isn't exactly what you were saying, but I also think not borrowing the full amount is critical, regardless of OOS vs. IS. I can borrow I think up to $60k/semester for COL and other expenses. I have a strict spreadsheet that differentiates where my loans are going and where my own money is going, and it's been guiding how much I borrow. My goal is to find my cushion and slim down my borrowing as much as possible. At the end of the day, if you need more, you can always borrow more in the same year.

anybody have suggestions on advisors/resources?
This doesn't help pre-vets, but UMN has a financial advisor from a private institution who works with vet students for free. I don't know if other schools have it but it's been a life saver with trying to budget and allocate funds.
 
I’m about to start vet school this fall and I am one year out of undergrad so take all this with a grain of salt.
My parents pounded into me the need to find something you love and find a way to earn a living doing that. The money will take care of itself and you won’t be miserable. If you are lucky, and that luck may be from a variety of sources, then you may even become independently wealthy.
My dad was in the military and then chased jobs because of income potential and made meh money and was miserable until he changed his focus and careers.
My mom is a MD (orthopedic surgeon) and spends more time away from patients than with because of demands with insurance issues, employee issues, etc.
She was in private practice and got squeezed by the insurance companies who forced her to accept less money for doing more work. Eventually she joined a group and it is a little better. Her income has dropped 60% from its peak! 60%. Tell me another industry where that has happened where the most educated segment of the workforce sees such a decline in income as you enter peak earning years.
My point for saying this is that every job and every industry has its headaches. You need to enter something that you enjoy doing because you’ll be doing a lot of it. And don’t do it for the money because too many variables will change that impact how much you make (still need to earn enough to live).
Who knows what happens to the vet industry over the next 30 years? I’ve spoken to well over 40 MDs and not one encourages me to enter human medicine, with the following exceptions: plastic surgery and only do elective procedures where patients pay your rate in cash. They all tell me that there is not a lot of advancement left in medicine and pay is getting squeezed. The Drs are facing a big reduction in pay and QOL will suffer. Despite this, people will still enter med school and be ok.
A job is a job is job. Everyone has pluses and minuses. Good days and bad days. All will have headaches. Find one where the headaches are tolerable. Don’t delay your future… that delays your success.
Just my thoughts…
 
There is a cost of education tool and other resources on VIN. (VIN is the veterinary education network, it’s an online site) Some of it is free online, others are behind their paywall and you have to be a vet student or vet to be a member ( it’s free for vet students! But I think you have to have your school email address to get approved). Tony Bartles is their debt guru. He may have recordings on YouTube or podcasts or something I’m not sure. But VIN members can post their numbers and he’ll analyze them, talk about options, whether to pay off be go for forgiveness makes financial sense, etc. but it’s not really a prevet resource. There are Facebook groups relating to vets and debt, but I’m not sure if they let pre-vets in or not. Student loan planner has resources and some vet specific consultants, but they charge and again, I think it’s more for people who are in repayment. Other than the VIN simulator I’m not sure what’s out there for pre-vet students.
so helpful @JaynaAli tysm
 
I’m about to start vet school this fall and I am one year out of undergrad so take all this with a grain of salt.
My parents pounded into me the need to find something you love and find a way to earn a living doing that. The money will take care of itself and you won’t be miserable. If you are lucky, and that luck may be from a variety of sources, then you may even become independently wealthy.
My dad was in the military and then chased jobs because of income potential and made meh money and was miserable until he changed his focus and careers.
My mom is a MD (orthopedic surgeon) and spends more time away from patients than with because of demands with insurance issues, employee issues, etc.
She was in private practice and got squeezed by the insurance companies who forced her to accept less money for doing more work. Eventually she joined a group and it is a little better. Her income has dropped 60% from its peak! 60%. Tell me another industry where that has happened where the most educated segment of the workforce sees such a decline in income as you enter peak earning years.
My point for saying this is that every job and every industry has its headaches. You need to enter something that you enjoy doing because you’ll be doing a lot of it. And don’t do it for the money because too many variables will change that impact how much you make (still need to earn enough to live).
Who knows what happens to the vet industry over the next 30 years? I’ve spoken to well over 40 MDs and not one encourages me to enter human medicine, with the following exceptions: plastic surgery and only do elective procedures where patients pay your rate in cash. They all tell me that there is not a lot of advancement left in medicine and pay is getting squeezed. The Drs are facing a big reduction in pay and QOL will suffer. Despite this, people will still enter med school and be ok.
A job is a job is job. Everyone has pluses and minuses. Good days and bad days. All will have headaches. Find one where the headaches are tolerable. Don’t delay your future… that delays your success.
Just my thoughts…
I don’t think I agree with the “do you makes you happy and the money will take care of itself and you won’t be miserable.” I quite actually know someone paying OOS tuition with massive debt already existing from undergrad and masters loans (think >$500,000). They have expressed that they are aware they are likely never going to be able to pay off their debt. They were wanting to go into something niche with a relatively low salary and they literally cannot afford to do it. They have enormous regrets. Yes every job has “pluses and minuses” but I think it’s a bit naive to say the problems facing the veterinary industry are akin to every other job. Yes human medicine has issues but they quite literally do similar years of schooling and debt load for double or triple the salary. I don’t regret my choice to go to veterinary school but I can’t in good conscience encourage people to start this path now. We are constantly reminded with all of the new schools opening and how the economy is, that the large needs for vets now will eventually end due to shrinkage of the industry and over-saturation. My husband will outearn me with no debt load. He is happier with his career than I am. I will always encourage someone interested in the field to look at the financial reality of it and where it is headed.

Edit to add: my college roommate got a FULL RIDE TO MEDICAL SCHOOL. I’ve never heard of anyone getting a full ride to vet school.
 
Last edited:
I have been in the veterinary field since 2007, originally wanted to go for my DVM in 2013 but it did not pan out for a multitude of reasons. I have worked in the field, first as a receptionist then as a veterinary technician (assistant prior to credentialing), the entirety of my adult working career. I love this field, I love the patients, I even love most families. I worked at a teaching hospital and was/am good friends with veterinary students (now DVMs) from that time in my life, lived with them as roomies from 2014-2017. I saw firsthand the debt they accrued, at a program that is generally more expensive even as IS, and saw the steps they took to mitigate their financial situation. It's part of the reason I deviated from that path a decade ago - I couldn't afford living as it was, let alone plunging into student debt without any support or understanding of what it meant long term.

I am married now, with a complete saint of a husband who is a boarded specialist. We have his debt to contend with, which is substantial, but that's also set us up very well with a financial advisor (have had one for years). We have EXTENSIVELY discussed the pros and cons of me going for my own DVM over a couple years now. Frankly, this is a crap time to be accepted to veterinary school for a few reasons.

Regarding the debt load, we made the choice to apply this cycle to my IS program only (thankfully it's one of the cheaper ones). We are taking steps to reduce the debt, including but not limited to considering if we can pay anything out of pocket instead of taking on loans. We are meeting with our financial advisor tomorrow (already scheduled back in November when the felon was elected) to see what they recommend. We are in a very, very good financial position compared to someone in their early to mid 20s (plus there's 2 of us, DINK). That said, it's still a major commitment and careful consideration must be taken. I HIGHLY, HIGHLY recommend meeting with a financial advisor who specializes in student debt (mostly professional student) as they can advise you both now and going forward as the landscape changes with regards to whatever damage may arise from the political side. I can tell you who we use if you'd like, I think a lot of DVMs use them, just send me a PM.

Stay aware of what's happening, stay informed (not enough to go crazy), and educate yourself on your options and the possible changes. This is a scary time. Be aware of what may happen down the road with repayment plans so you don't graduate and get blindsided. I really think a loan planner should be mandatory from going into vet school onward, or for any professional program with a substantial cost.

I have not committed yet. I have some questions that time will help with, and we will see what the FA says. I'm pretty sure we're in a comfortable position to proceed but, again, chaos is the name of the game in Washington DC right now so who knows.
 
I wish I was able to provide proper advice & I apologize that I can't but I just wanted to say it's astounding what is expected of you as US students/veterinarians. Reading this thread & hearing the financial struggles US vets go through genuinely breaks my heart & shocks me badly. My tuition for vet school as a domestic Canadian applicant is 15k Canadian a year (approximately 10k USD). I really hope that something changes someday & pursuing the career you love is made a little bit easier on you all.
 
I wish I was able to provide proper advice & I apologize that I can't but I just wanted to say it's astounding what is expected of you as US students/veterinarians. Reading this thread & hearing the financial struggles US vets go through genuinely breaks my heart & shocks me badly. My tuition for vet school as a domestic Canadian applicant is 15k Canadian a year (approximately 10k USD). I really hope that something changes someday & pursuing the career you love is made a little bit easier on you all.

The overall mentality of how our government should function would have to change, tbh. When you have 350 million people in a democratic republic, that's hard to do. Particularly when that democratic republic is a group of 50 individuals linked by a federalist heart. 🤣

All joking aside, the number one reason I don't want additional states (besides imperialism being so 14th century) is that it simply further complicates an already complicated system.
 
Echoing some of what's already been said - the best advise I can give to anyone considering applying to vet school right now is to apply smart. Try to pick schools to apply to that will not cause you to take out $400k in debt. The VIN cost of attendance map is a fantastic resource to use for this!

What I did, and what I would recommend doing to all of you, is to apply to the cheapest schools possible for you. IS schools are always a great option, but also look at schools that let you change residency after first year/naturally have cheaper tuition rates. WSU, Mizzou, tOSU, and NCSU are schools that come to mind.
 
Hi everyone. Been having a lot weigh on my heart, brain, and conscious lately. Need to hear from current graduates, vet students, and those with years into the workforce. If you were applying now, what is your best advice to navigate all of the craziness surrounding the possible elimination of income driven repayment plans, grad plus loans, and the current state of the field. Saw an article saying for 2025 the hottest career is a veterinarian. Wondering how they came up with this 😭 it’s so hard for me to see past all the doom and gloom of what ifs and commit to any school (given currently my only feasible option is over 400k loans wise). Would you wait it out a few years? Would you attend now? Would you only go for your IS option even if given an OOS option? I know it’s all circumstantial and subjective for each person but I need some help.
I'm still in school so I won't pretend to know if the realities of working as a DVM as worth it. I will say that I have a fair amount of anxiety about the future of this field... from the creation of the VPA position in Colorado to the rise in new veterinary schools, I predict that there will be too many veterinarians competing for not enough jobs, and salaries will likely go down. The COVID boom that the industry experienced seems to be gone at this point. So as someone who is currently committed to finishing up with vet school, I'm not sure how much I would recommend it to someone who hasn't started yet, given all these factors.

Out of curiosity, why is your only feasible option >400k? I remember being pre-vet and being desperate to get in to any vet school possible, but I would be hesitant to take on that amount of loans. I will say that when I applied, I initially was only planning on applying IS, and then ended up applying to a ton of schools once VMCAS opened because I wanted to maximize my odds of getting in somewhere. Luckily for me, I did end up getting into my IS school, but I was prepared to go OOS.... not sure if that actually would have been a smart decision on my part, but it does seem like admissions are getting so competitive these days, that if you don't take whatever acceptance you get, you may never get in. But even as someone with a relatively lower amount of loans thus far, I do have a lot of financial anxiety, particularly with all the uncertainty that has been in the news lately regarding the Department of Education, and the possibility of income based repayment plans being threatened. So with everything going on in the country currently, I do not think attending a 400k school would be a wise decision.
 
Reading through this thread and trying not to panic too much. Currently a pre-vet senior who only applied to a small amount of schools, not including my IS (tOSU) this cycle due to a low science GPA (a 2.9. Legit 0.1 away from the cutoff of most schools. I’m waiting on ISU; if I don’t get in, I’ll have to reapply). I’ve been wanting to do this and been involved in vet med since I was 17. The older I get, the more I panic about my future. I dont even have a solid backup plan (which I know is bad); I’ve thought about maybe microbiology or some section of that. I’m glad to see and read these comments as I need, support, and appreciate any and all insight about this profession and what I’m entering into, but damn, I feel like I’m in quicksand right now
 
I think jaynaali and battie echoed similarly to my thoughts.

When I applied I knew there was a chance I wasn't going to get into vet school-it's competitive. I wanted to be a vet, but I recognized it is just a job and can only support so much. On top of that I knew when I graduated I wanted to work in a rural mixed underserved area which meant even less $ and I knew the only way I could make my goals a reality was to limit my debt so I could return to an area in which I wanted to practice. So 1, I told myself I was only going to apply twice and if I didn't get in I would move on in life and 2 I was not going to spend more than 200k total at the time (probably would bump to 250k now). With this in mind I had 0 undergraduate debt AND I worked all my undergrad and lived at home, thankfully with minimal expenses so I was able to work and save every penny so I had a nice chunk saved for vet school. My IS was CSU which if you look at the VIN map is not the cheapest IS option and I actually ended up going OOS to a cheaper option. I also only applied to schools that in theory would keep me at my targeted loan estimate. If I wasn't a vet today I would probably be working in a hospital lab running the analyzers (70-150k/year that if you find the right program for a 2 year contract your education is free post BS education).

Going into my loans and knowing what I wanted to do I had planned on VMLRP paying for my loans as well as my state forgiveness program. As everyone says hope for the best and plan for the worst. I did not get picked for my state repayment program AND I ultimately decided not to pursue the VMLRP option for myself for a few reasons. That being said I will be done with my loans this year (~3 years post graduation), I graduated with ~150k, my SO paid for living expenses while in school, I had a nice chunk of money lying around saved up from high school-undergrad working, and some help from my parents. COVID forbearance on interest was a huge blessing as one thing I think alot of people fail to take into account is the daily interest accrual that happens everyday during your time as a student which at 6+% everyday for 4 years before you can pay adds up fast. Also the fact that tuition goes up almost every year which is a challenging thing to account for projection wise to try and estimate loan amounts.

With all of that being said I exceeded my base and am on base plus production which has been a financial blessing, I live in a LCOL area, and my SO makes decent money which has all contributed to me being able to be done with my loans here soon. Which even though my loans are relatively small compared to other people's, having them paid off gives me this huge sigh of relief and "freedom" knowing that my education is paid for and if I need/want to walk away from vet med I could without worrying about needing $x for my student loan payment

My best advice is figure out that magical $ amount that it is "worth it" to you but realistic. In no world is becoming a vet worth 400k+ imo. A stretch argument could be made for 300kish assuming a higher base of 150k and a debt to income ratio of 2:1. There is no shame in walking away from this profession or even from an admission to a school with a very high COA for you. At the end of the day it's just a job. If someone told me I could stock shelves and make 200k+/year with 0 education you'd bet I'd quit my job tomorrow even though I wouldn't necessarily enjoy it and find it mentally mundane it'd sure be less stressful and allow me to fulfill my other passions in life easier. However, I value and prioritize other things in my life for happiness over my job like travelling.

All of that being said, I like my job, if given the option I would probably do it all again if I had to assuming everything was the same. That being said if things would've panned out differently I could've been happy working in a hospital lab. I try and be encouraging to my prevets I get, but I am also very frank about salary prospects, the debt, and yes the fact that we are probably going to end up in a surplus market soon. Not to mention the other factors that affect my job daily-people trying to emotionally blackmail us, client abuse, not being able to help all the thing, financial constraints, etc. I always try to emphasize that this is just a job and to have a backup plan. It can seem like an impossible hole to get out of especially if you've dedicated so much time, energy, and $ to applying and those close to you may not understand it, but that's ok. I wish more prevets were open minded to the fact that it's just a job instead of the all encompassing idea that it is our identity, I think it would help with other things we face as a profession like burn out and suicide.
 
On that note, if you are or think you will be a good doctor, then you can be good at other things. You aren't good at being a doctor in that case; you're good at the *skills* that make you a good doctor.
 
Reading through this thread and trying not to panic too much. Currently a pre-vet senior who only applied to a small amount of schools, not including my IS (tOSU) this cycle due to a low science GPA (a 2.9. Legit 0.1 away from the cutoff of most schools. I’m waiting on ISU; if I don’t get in, I’ll have to reapply). I’ve been wanting to do this and been involved in vet med since I was 17. The older I get, the more I panic about my future. I dont even have a solid backup plan (which I know is bad); I’ve thought about maybe microbiology or some section of that. I’m glad to see and read these comments as I need, support, and appreciate any and all insight about this profession and what I’m entering into, but damn, I feel like I’m in quicksand right now
Don't panic. Educate yourself, develop informed opinions, meet with financial advisors and other people who handle finances and debt for a living that will advocate for you, and keep an open mind. If you want to be a veterinarian, you should pursue it BUT you should remain informed. That was the case long before the Donvict got into office, as anyone taking on six figures of any type of debt should educate themselves, it's just more pressing with bigger repercussions now.

Oh, and every single person posting here should call your representatives no matter what state you're from (red or blue). Tell them what's happening is NOT okay, that you want to pursue higher education without all of this additional risk and chaos, etc. Use your voice in ANY form to communicate to those that we "elected" that their job is to take care of US, not the corporations and not their own interests. Again, this goes for any thing that affects you, but right now is more important than ever.
 
Don't panic. Educate yourself, develop informed opinions, meet with financial advisors and other people who handle finances and debt for a living that will advocate for you, and keep an open mind. If you want to be a veterinarian, you should pursue it BUT you should remain informed. That was the case long before the Donvict got into office, as anyone taking on six figures of any type of debt should educate themselves, it's just more pressing with bigger repercussions now.

Oh, and every single person posting here should call your representatives no matter what state you're from (red or blue). Tell them what's happening is NOT okay, that you want to pursue higher education without all of this additional risk and chaos, etc. Use your voice in ANY form to communicate to those that we "elected" that their job is to take care of US, not the corporations and not their own interests. Again, this goes for any thing that affects you, but right now is more important than ever.
Agreed - call once a week or every day, we are watching a disaster in the making that is going to impact everyone.
 
Oh, and every single person posting here should call your representatives no matter what state you're from (red or blue). Tell them what's happening is NOT okay, that you want to pursue higher education without all of this additional risk and chaos, etc. Use your voice in ANY form to communicate to those that we "elected" that their job is to take care of US, not the corporations and not their own interests. Again, this goes for any thing that affects you, but right now is more important than ever.
Do we call our state senators? our governor? our district reps? or all of the above.
 
Do we call our state senators? our governor? our district reps? or all of the above.
YEP! Whoever you can, as often as you can. The direct line in Washington to your reps is 202-224-3121, but go local too if you can! You can also use ResistBot to sign petitions on your phone.
 
Thank you everyone for all the thoughtful responses. It’s so much to think about. i thought I was going crazy when all I felt after an acceptance to an extremely expensive program was dread. Seeing everyone be so excited but all I can think about is 400k being attached to my debt. Growing up, my parents used money as a financial manipulation tactic on me and my siblings to ensure we did what they wanted. Now, I’m overly paranoid about money 24/7, but that’s another story for my therapist 😂. My other doubts come from the fact that CSU has the VPA program on the up and coming.. which scares me considering I’d be probably working with these students ???? Idk but CSU has not offered a single worthwhile response when prompted about how the VPA will impact vet students. Its all a waiting game I suppose.
 
all I felt after an acceptance to an extremely expensive program was dread.
I felt the same after getting accepted/committing to U of I (OOS), which was no where near 400k for me. So no, you're definitely not crazy.

CSU has not offered a single worthwhile response when prompted about how the VPA will impact vet students
My guess is because they don't know. Even schools with tech programs, whether in-house or not, have to answer these questions.

Isn't CSU expanding their class size too? I'd be more worried about a bigger class than VPA right now, honestly, considering how most/all teaching hospitals are having trouble staffing their services. VPA curriculum mainly has them doing in-person labs for a semester, the rest is online. Based on that, it seems unlikely that vet students would actually be affected...but until the program starts, we can't know for sure.
 
Isn't CSU expanding their class size too?
They're increasing it to 170 students when the new veterinary complex opens next year. I'm not sure if the 170 students counts the dual degree students or just the current DVM students, but regardless, pretty big class. About the size of my highschool graduating class, and undergrad major class.
 
I felt the same after getting accepted/committing to U of I (OOS), which was no where near 400k for me. So no, you're definitely not crazy.


My guess is because they don't know. Even schools with tech programs, whether in-house or not, have to answer these questions.

Isn't CSU expanding their class size too? I'd be more worried about a bigger class than VPA right now, honestly, considering how most/all teaching hospitals are having trouble staffing their services. VPA curriculum mainly has them doing in-person labs for a semester, the rest is online. Based on that, it seems unlikely that vet students would actually be affected...but until the program starts, we can't know for sure.
Oh wow I didn’t even know they were increasing it THAT MUCH. I am sure this doesn’t even include the 14 UAF students and the dual degree students who enter in a year later. So probably closer to 200. Ugh.
 
My other doubts come from the fact that CSU has the VPA program on the up and coming.. which scares me considering I’d be probably working with these students ???? Idk but CSU has not offered a single worthwhile response when prompted about how the VPA will impact vet students. Its all a waiting game I suppose.

The CVMA is hosting a discussion tonight at 6pm. I'm on the floor tonight, but I signed up to join just in case I have time. I'll post if there's anything worthwhile said.
 
The CVMA is hosting a discussion tonight at 6pm. I'm on the floor tonight, but I signed up to join just in case I have time. I'll post if there's anything worthwhile said.
Thank you so much, Battie!!
 
The CVMA is hosting a discussion tonight at 6pm. I'm on the floor tonight, but I signed up to join just in case I have time. I'll post if there's anything worthwhile said.
There will be an opportunity to voice things outside of this if you were not able to attend tonight. It's currently more so a style of agree/disagree, revision on major statements. ie "DVMs will not be required to supervise VPAs as part of employment conditions." Will follow up after the mtg is done
 
Just got out of the meeting. Basically:
1. 60%+ of attendees agreed supervising a VPA should not be a condition of employment
2. There was really no significant difference between what attendees feel a VPA should do and what RVTs can already do (example: take dental radiographs under anesthesia).
3. Significant agreement that VPAs should not perform intra-abdominal surgery
4. No difference on what VPAs can do between GP and shelter animals (i.e. attendees didn't think a VPA should spay a shelter cat/dog)
5. Overwhelming consensus that VPAs should carry their own liability and not share liability with a veterinarian

No discussion on the education parameters credentialing.

We did not get the actual numbers. There were some tech difficulties (130+ people attended, so not blaming them there), so they had to change how they were gathering data. In theory, we should be getting this info and this info is going to be supplied to DORA.
 
Update we broke their system 😅
So backup plan takeaways:
1) overall VPA performance of surgery is strongly opposed
2) supervision of VPAs shall NOT be a requirement of DVM employment
3) VPAs should essentially be held to the level of responsibility of RVTs-close abdominal incisions, do dental rads, etc
4) VPAs shall be required to have their own liability and should NOT fall on the DVMs responsibility
5) If VPAs are allowed to practice beyond the responsibility of RVT guidelines it must be done with direct or immediate (immediate seemed more popular) by a DVM

DORA will be responsible for making credentialing decision and guidelines. Should you wish to reach out to any specific group please see the following emails for input for rulemaking:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
 
Just got out of the meeting. Basically:
1. 60%+ of attendees agreed supervising a VPA should not be a condition of employment
2. There was really no significant difference between what attendees feel a VPA should do and what RVTs can already do (example: take dental radiographs under anesthesia).
3. Significant agreement that VPAs should not perform intra-abdominal surgery
4. No difference on what VPAs can do between GP and shelter animals (i.e. attendees didn't think a VPA should spay a shelter cat/dog)
5. Overwhelming consensus that VPAs should carry their own liability and not share liability with a veterinarian

No discussion on the education parameters credentialing.

We did not get the actual numbers. There were some tech difficulties (130+ people attended, so not blaming them there), so they had to change how they were gathering data. In theory, we should be getting this info and this info is going to be supplied to DORA.
Jinx 😆
 
Update we broke their system 😅
So backup plan takeaways:
1) overall VPA performance of surgery is strongly opposed
2) supervision of VPAs shall NOT be a requirement of DVM employment
3) VPAs should essentially be held to the level of responsibility of RVTs-close abdominal incisions, do dental rads, etc
4) VPAs shall be required to have their own liability and should NOT fall on the DVMs responsibility
5) If VPAs are allowed to practice beyond the responsibility of RVT guidelines it must be done with direct or immediate (immediate seemed more popular) by a DVM

DORA will be responsible for making credentialing decision and guidelines. Should you wish to reach out to any specific group please see the following emails for input for rulemaking:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
This whole thing about vpas doing veterinarian things is terrifying. There’s a reason I only go to mds or dos for my care. I hope the whole state rethinks this. Jmo.
 
This whole thing about vpas doing veterinarian things is terrifying. There’s a reason I only go to mds or dos for my care. I hope the whole state rethinks this. Jmo.

The VPA position is now part of state law saying it can exist. Unless a law repealing initiative 129 is introduced and passed, then we're stuck with it.

However, meetings like the one tonight is primarily to see what the function of the VPA can be. And the game plan is effectively to make the position un-usable. As an example, essentially everything people agreed VPAs should be able to do, RVTs can already do here. So why would a clinic hire someone more expensive to employ than an RVT to do RVT things? They wouldn't.
 
Based on everything said, why is a VPA even a thing if it’s essentially the exact same duties as a CVT? I’m just once again not understanding 😭 why can’t we just protect credentialed techs
The proposed VPA duties are far more than what a tech does (or is 'supposed' to do). The rest of the vet world does not want VPAs making independent diagnostic/prescribing decisions, surgery, etc.
 
Based on everything said, why is a VPA even a thing if it’s essentially the exact same duties as a CVT? I’m just once again not understanding 😭 why can’t we just protect credentialed techs

The original purpose was to replace doctors and do "minor" doctor things. The meeting last night was essentially a community town hall with predominantly doctors (75) to give opinions on what the boundaries should be. So obviously doctors wouldn't want VPAs doing doctor things.
 
Based on everything said, why is a VPA even a thing if it’s essentially the exact same duties as a CVT? I’m just once again not understanding 😭 why can’t we just protect credentialed techs
A friend in Colorado told me most lay people didn’t even understand what the bill entailed. Hence why it passed.

Corporations pushed for this to pass because they want to hire someone with less credentials to do “the same jobs as a vet” for less money (as they have in human medicine). The quotations are due to the studies in human medicine concluding quality of care/outcomes by midlevels is significantly worse than MD/DOs. So in conclusion corporate greed as usual.
 
A friend in Colorado told me most lay people didn’t even understand what the bill entailed. Hence why it passed.
iirc they worded it weird on the ballot and also said it would increase availability of care and make vet care cheaper 🥲🫠 which of course it won’t make anything cheaper because the expensive **** is diagnostics and that is not going to be cheaper just because a VPA is running/interpreting it 🙃
 
iirc they worded it weird on the ballot and also said it would increase availability of care and make vet care cheaper 🥲🫠 which of course it won’t make anything cheaper because the expensive **** is diagnostics and that is not going to be cheaper just because a VPA is running/interpreting it 🙃
Ik! They were purposefully deceptive and preying on people’s financial hardships. Yuck.
 
Top