Curriculum Concerns

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
:laugh:


I'm very jealous of schools that give their students detailed, organized syllabi. Our lecture notes are somewhat hit-or-miss, depending on the class. That sucks if you don't go to lectures (like myself). Some of my classmates, who do go to class, are absolutely awesome though and make really great study guides that they share with the rest of us, which ends up compensating for the lack of syllabi. 🙂

That's what we have as well. I wish we got syllabi...

Interesting. I was under the impression that every med school gives out some sort of syllabi. What do you guys get then? Just powerpoints and podcasts? I could never survive med school without having a syllabus for every course. If a professor is good at following his/her syllabus, I usually don't even bother listening to the podcast and just read the syllabus myself. Save me some time.

Also, the learning objectives we get for each lecture are completely useless. For our T2DM pharm lecture this morning, the objective was know the drugs for T2DM. Oh really...?
 
Wow! Do they fail all of those people?

Not all of them. Quite a few of them though. Most are within a question or three of failing. I just thought it was an interesting observation given the quality of the students accepted at this school

When you have a distribution like this, exam time is pretty stressful. You are lucky if you are north of the pass line.
 
Last edited:
Interesting. I was under the impression that every med school gives out some sort of syllabi. What do you guys get then? Just powerpoints and podcasts? I could never survive med school without having a syllabus for every course. If a professor is good at following his/her syllabus, I usually don't even bother listening to the podcast and just read the syllabus myself. Save me some time.
QUOTE]

Yeah. Just power points and podcasts. These are of varying quality. If the professor presents a powerpoint that fits with the lecture, it's awesome. If not, good luck.

To add insult to injury, we don't get old/practice exams either. We get weekly quizzes, but these really don't mirror what is tested on the block exams.
 
Last edited:
Interesting. I was under the impression that every med school gives out some sort of syllabi. What do you guys get then? Just powerpoints and podcasts? I could never survive med school without having a syllabus for every course. If a professor is good at following his/her syllabus, I usually don't even bother listening to the podcast and just read the syllabus myself. Save me some time.
QUOTE]

Yeah. Just power points and podcasts. These are of varying quality. If the professor presents a powerpoint that fits with the lecture, it's awesome. If not, good luck.

To add insult to injury, we don't get old/practice exams either. We get weekly quizzes, but these really don't mirror what is tested on the block exams.

👍 We don't have quizzes, but we have some old exam questions. Problem is they're largely composed of questions that were removed from the test bank for a reason. Still some utility though.
 
.

That sounds pretty normal to me- I am an M1, and just before our anatomy final, the class average was a 71, with roughly half the class failing.
 
My exact thoughts on adversarial teaching:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL14IuSeCJ8[/YOUTUBE]
 
Just to post some facts.

I attend a medical school in the top 20, per the USNWR research rankings. Average MCAT of the incoming class is between 34 and 35.

Number of students scoring 70 or below on our exams.

Cardio 47
Pulm 12
GI 39

125 students in the class.

Any insight from other medical schools?

Definitely not normal at my school. Here you fail one test you retake that test during the summer, if you pass there is no change on your record, only the P. If you fail 2 tests (or don't pass your summer exam), you remediate the entire year. Its a big deal and it only happens to a handful of people. Usually when that happens the students had some intense personal issues.
 
.

That sounds pretty normal to me- I am an M1, and just before our anatomy final, the class average was a 71, with roughly half the class failing.

The averages are on high-stakes block exams (ie one shot to pass the course).

That's pretty bad though...do most people end up passing?
 
Last edited:
Definitely not normal at my school. Here you fail one test you retake that test during the summer, if you pass there is no change on your record, only the P. If you fail 2 tests (or don't pass your summer exam), you remediate the entire year. Its a big deal and it only happens to a handful of people. Usually when that happens the students had some intense personal issues.

Yeah, about the same at my school as far as I know. Our exam averages have been 75-85, SD 7-10. So the few who are failing are getting scores in the low 60's. This has been only maybe 2-3 people per block (out of 140) and we can also remediate a block over the summer without having to redo a whole year. This is our first block that has had only 1 comprehensive exam, though - so far we've had longer blocks so we've had a midterm and a final every 3-4 weeks. But I think most people have figured out how much studying they need to do to get into the P range now that we're halfway through the year, and our lecturers have been giving out some practice problems for this block so we have an idea of what to expect. A few profs in other blocks have put a sample problem at the end of each of their lectures, too.

We get ppts, recordings, and LOs for every lecture, about 5-10/lecture, ends up being around 200 per exam. I think they're pretty useful and I know the lecturers do try and make them match the lecture and exam content, though I personally haven't been using them to focus my study; just been learning as much from the lectures as possible. I'm told our 2nd years can have a lot more objectives per lecture (~50), but it's also because they form a basis for pulling potential NBME questions that they get tested with.

OP - I hope you make some progress talking to your deans. Alternately, do you have any student leaders who can take the concerns of the class to administration? At our school thankfully they're pretty receptive to student feedback, and my impression is that they want us to succeed. When people have come close to failing their midterms, our deans have immediately contacted them to help them find the resources they need.

Food for thought - If you're at a top school, why would they be recruiting students just to try and fail them out? Good students who are successful later in their careers make a good advertisement for that school; students who are bitter and speak ill of the school aren't going to attract top candidates in the future. And education is an investment for both parties - I know it feels like we pay a lot for medical education, but the time and money educational institutions need to spend to produce graduates is a lot, too. If for some reason your school doesn't have similar views on this, do your best to convince them of such! :luck:
 
Apart from one block in which ~13 students failed, the other blocks only had ~2-3, 4, and 6 people fail. Even the GI block, which was what prompted the OP to start this thread, had only 6 students fail.

It is true that a good percentage of the class gets below the default passing score of 75% on tests, but the pass rate is almost always readjusted to reflect this. Usually anyone who gets above 60% ends up passing the exams.

Many of my classmates get stressed out before tests, but I don't think this is anything out of the ordinary for medical school given the amount of materials covered. Almost everyone I have talked to seems happy with their performances and/or the way the material is taught. The curriculum can of course be improved, but IMO they are usually for pretty minor things.

And I think part of the reason why the class average can be so low is simply because some people get complacent due to the classes being pass-fail. For every student who works hard to get every question right there are those who are just happy to simply pass.

I feel for the OP, and the first year of medical school can be an especially hard adjustment for non-traditional students who have been out of school for a while, but this adjustment is something that all of us have to face at some level.

The administration is very receptive to listening to our complaints if problems arise, but I personally do not feel the overall layout of the curriculum is that big of a concern.
 
Top