Curves in science classes

[toocoolforyou]

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I was wondering what the curves are like in everyone's science classes? At my school, averages tend to be between 40 and 65 percent, and the mean is curved to the lowest C-. Basically, 40% of each hard science class doesn't pass, they methodically weed people out. I was wondering if other people's schools are this competitive. If not, would it be prudent to mention this in an application somewhere? I got a C+ in a notoriously tough class last semester, but it was still top 40% of the class. What do you think?

 

[jochi1543]

I was wondering what the curves are like in everyone's science classes?

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In my experience, the "curve" takes place if no one in the class achieved a 100%. If the highest grade is 94%, for example, everyone's grade is curved up by 6%. I've never had a prof curve anything down, at least to my knowledge - never had a grade below my actual average.

 

[Bacchus]

My higher math classes (calc II and III) had no curve but the average was in the 90s (amazing prof that'd give you the shirt off her back). Physics had no curve from what I can tell so what you got, you got. In orgo there was a standard bell curve that had the average as a B. This pushed my 86 to an A. My professors don't like to curve too much but I hear that pchem is curved and so is analytical. I haven't had them yet.

 

[Smctbone]

I was wondering what the curves are like in everyone's science classes? At my school, averages tend to be between 40 and 65 percent, and the mean is curved to the lowest C-. Basically, 40% of each hard science class doesn't pass, they methodically weed people out. I was wondering if other people's schools are this competitive. If not, would it be prudent to mention this in an application somewhere? I got a C+ in a notoriously tough class last semester, but it was still top 40% of the class. What do you think?

i would avoid any mention of curves (or lack thereof 🙄). Med schools dont typically have curves, and I bet most adcoms would take the "well they didnt curve our grades that much" excuse as your way of displacing all the blame (making you look ill-prepared for med school). So I wouldnt mention it in the application. Maybe if it comes up in an interview you could address it more professionally?

btw, dont adcoms already have a good idea about grade inflations for specific undergrad schools?

 

[toocoolforyou]

I feel cheated 😡

Thanks for the input kids. Yeah, the admissions peeps preobably know what's going on (I hope, <gulp>)

 

[nick_carraway]

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In my experience, the "curve" takes place if no one in the class achieved a 100%. If the highest grade is 94%, for example, everyone's grade is curved up by 6%. I've never had a prof curve anything down, at least to my knowledge - never had a grade below my actual average.

I'm glad that I wasn't the only one who thought something else of the OP's thread at first.

Then again to have the same thinking as jochi isn't too reassuring 😉

 

[MossPoh]

I think it is rare to have a true "curve" anymore. Many classes adjust the grades so there are a comfortable amount of Bs and Cs. (If everyone is tanking) There are certain situations where a course has to be adjusted. If you are in a class where there are 3 different TAs and they each create their own quizzes or even grade their own quizzes, then there can be a HUGE difference in averages between sections. (I've seen it happen)

I had a class sophomore year where the class average was a 50 percent. I had a 55 percent and wound up with a B. (Non science course) Just depends on the situation. If there are assloads of As and then Assloads of Cs and Ds obviously it is a matter of just work ethic. It is when EVERYONE is in that lower half that things need to be fixed.

 

[MassTransport]

40% F? That's insane. Are you sure this is correct? Which school is this?

 

[novawildcat]

I remember in Pchem my Pchem professor saying that we "curve ourselves". After teaching Pchem for over 30 years, he was right. He would post the scores of the exams and you could see that the averages would break down into 4 catagories everytime-- those who would score the highest, the next to highest, in the middle, and lowest which would translate into A, B, C, D-F. It wouldn't matter if the highest average was a 40%, it would translate into an A if it was the best in the class. And amazingly the score would distribute to make it easy everytime.

 

[corbis11]

most of my classes in my major have been curved so that ~10% receive A's (~5/50 get marks of an A). I've had a class where no one got in A. I've been in a class where ~30% got an A. So it all depends on the prof.

 

[Jolie South]

why can't profs make their tests reflect the knowledge that you are actually supposed to know?

i mean if everyone's failing it could be one of 2 things:
*the test is fair but the prof doesn't teach well enough to get the knowledge across to students
*the test is ridiculous and covers material more advanced than what was taught

Seriously, get your s*** together people. Teach what you're supposed to and then test the students appropriately.

 

[Inuranic]

I love my science courses because the Professors refuse to scale.

In my 2nd semester of general biology there were only like 2 or three exams. We had people TANKING these things (i.e. like 30) and the class average was easily below an F. Was there a curve? No way...just an admonishment to do better.

That class was awesome.

 

[novawildcat]

I've had a class where no one got in A. I've been in a class where ~30% got an A.

To me that sounds ridiculous. That is more a reflection on the professor than the students. The highest achieving students in a class should always get an A-- it doesn't matter if their average is a 30%.

 

[nick_carraway]

To me that sounds ridiculous. That is more a reflection on the professor than the students. The highest achieving students in a class should always get an A-- it doesn't matter if their average is a 30%.

Agreed. I think a professor thinks too highly of his own teaching ability if he doesn't curve a class.

 

[artaxerxes]

most of my classes apply a bellshaped curve where the median becomes either a B, or B- depending on department. This ends up as a 10-15 point boost to the raw score most of the time.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

most of my classes apply a bellshaped curve where the median becomes either a B, or B- depending on department. This ends up as a 10-15 point boost to the raw score most of the time.

Curves? What are those? None of our profs curve. May God have mercy on the poor bastards who don't know how to study.

 

[Bacchus]

most of my classes apply a bellshaped curve where the median becomes either a B, or B- depending on department. This ends up as a 10-15 point boost to the raw score most of the time.

Only had that happen in orgo, not that a B+ would have been horrible but an A looks much nicer.

 

[cheezer]

all my science classes have had a slightly lower fixed scale. 85%~A-.

this sounds great until you come across a hard class and you realize your 85% could very well be a high A if the prof curved.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

That's what our profs do......the scale is adjusted......on average it is something like (I don't remember the exact numbers, but it's close to this).

93%-100%- A
88%-92%- A-
85%-87%- B+
and so on......

 

[TheRealMD]

Thankfully, none of my classes have ever been "weed out" evil. Grading scale is such that 90% is an A, with curves on tests if the class did poorly (average lower than 60, curve type depends on prof). Most classes had merit-based A grades, meaning if you did the work (and there was a lot), you probably got an A.

 

[DreamyKid]

I feel cheated 😡

Thanks for the input kids. Yeah, the admissions peeps preobably know what's going on (I hope, <gulp>)

what school do you go to?

 

[mvenus929]

all my science classes have had a slightly lower fixed scale. 85%~A-.

That's how it's been for all my chem classes. Our professor made up the scale based on like 20 years of determining cut off points for grades. Seems to work pretty well.

To me that sounds ridiculous. That is more a reflection on the professor than the students. The highest achieving students in a class should always get an A-- it doesn't matter if their average is a 30%.

I think the person meant that 30% of the class gets an A, as opposed to some smaller percentage (10%). Not that a 30% grade earns an A in the class.

 

[novawildcat]

I think the person meant that 30% of the class gets an A, as opposed to some smaller percentage (10%). Not that a 30% grade earns an A in the class.

No. I was simply saying that if a science class was so hard that only a top few people in the class only earned an average of 30% grade, they should still get A's because they were out performing everyone else. Everything is relative. You need to take into the account the quality of the professor and the only way to do this is by looking at the averages in the class that he/she teaches.

 

[154465]

We have this one Genetics prof at our school that was impossible. The average, after the curve, was usually 40-50%. So thats my story.

 

[Summer Sweet]

I had an ochem prof who was known to be really hard. I stuck with him for the series even though most of my classmates switched to an easier prof after the first quarter, because he presented the material very well. Test averages were generally in the 30%-45% range, with the high score being somewhere between 55%-70%. He never told you the grading curve--he gave the high, low, and average scores after every test so you could "estimate" where you stand.

Strangely, at the end of each class, the majority of people passed even if they scored 30%'s on their exams. I think it was because the prof graded somewhat subjectively. If you showed improvement on later exams, he took that into account. He also picked on people in class and asked them a question to see if they were prepared, and made a mental note of whether or not they had the right reasoning--it was ok to have a wrong answer as long as you could back it up. So yeah, this class probably had one of the weirdest curves (how do people get A's when they have a 50% average?!?!), but he graded rather holistically.

 

[artaxerxes]

I had an ochem prof who was known to be really hard. I stuck with him for the series even though most of my classmates switched to an easier prof after the first quarter, because he presented the material very well. Test averages were generally in the 30%-45% range, with the high score being somewhere between 55%-70%. He never told you the grading curve--he gave the high, low, and average scores after every test so you could "estimate" where you stand.

yet most of the class still got the majority of questions wrong? something must be up...

 

[DocBR]

In some of my harder science courses there was a curve that optimized pass rates, but still allowed some people to shine. So, the range for a C was padded to encompass about 17% (e.g. 45%-62%) while the A, B and D range were 10% each.

So in a course of 130 students, perhaps 10 received an A, 30 would receive a B, 50 would receive a C, and the remainder would fail or drop the class. My school had an insanely late final drop date which prevented too many people from failing, but there were a lot of dropped students.

Op, I wouldn't mention what you feel to be an unfair or unbalanced grading system on a secondary or interview. No school with multiple professors can be absolutely fair in grading all of its students. You will probably just come off whiny.

 

[Rud42]

I don't know about a curve, but at my school, the professors adjusts their tests so that there is a relatively normal distribution with the median being about a B- I think.

 

[Hyperstudyosis]

My anatomy and physiology professor didn't curve the grades at all. She did put about 10 points of extra credit on each exam. Even so, the lowest grade on the exams was around a 6. The average was probably in the 50s or 60s. There was no bell shaped curve though. There were good grades and terrible grades with basically nothing in between. The problem was that a lot of the kids in the class didn't study and didn't care what they got. I got over 100 on every test and there were a few others who got A's.

Some of the profs at my school do curve though. My friend took microbiology and got B's and C's on the tests and ended up with an A in the class. She also told me that her pharmacology professor added 17 points to each of their grades.

 

[BigRedPremed]

Most of my science classes had medians of B/B- with one std. dev above the median equal to approx. A/A-. Obviously any discussion of curves is incomplete without noting the quality of competition (ie how smart the other students are in the class).

 

[riceman04]

40% F? That's insane. Are you sure this is correct? Which school is this?

That was like a normal average in orgo at my alma mater!👎
Some profs worked their hardest to make sure you felt stupid...The whip was cracked hard and often

 

[copingmethods]

I was wondering what the curves are like in everyone's science classes? At my school, averages tend to be between 40 and 65 percent, and the mean is curved to the lowest C-. Basically, 40% of each hard science class doesn't pass, they methodically weed people out. I was wondering if other people's schools are this competitive. If not, would it be prudent to mention this in an application somewhere? I got a C+ in a notoriously tough class last semester, but it was still top 40% of the class. What do you think?

Umm...maybe my perception of grading is wrong, but wouldn't the top 40% include a C+ anyway?

 

[MNIkid87]

Hmm, at my school (at least according to what we are told) there is a certain maximum average that is supposed to be achieved. If the class average exceeds the target average is curved down, if the class average is below the maximum average the prof can curve it up to the target average. If profs don't stick to it they get spanked by the dean of the faculty

 

[littlealex]

I was wondering what the curves are like in everyone's science classes? At my school, averages tend to be between 40 and 65 percent, and the mean is curved to the lowest C-. Basically, 40% of each hard science class doesn't pass, they methodically weed people out. I was wondering if other people's schools are this competitive. If not, would it be prudent to mention this in an application somewhere? I got a C+ in a notoriously tough class last semester, but it was still top 40% of the class. What do you think?

Medical schools regularly receive applications from your school, and aren't ignorant of your predicament. Many Adcom members have years of experience and probably knows the reputation of most of the schools.

Mentioning a difficult curve sounds whiny. Medical schools expect you to take on challenges and succeed. By shifting the blame on the curve seem to imply that you weren't ready for the challenge. I mean, some people in your class got A's and B's.

 

[Summer Sweet]

yet most of the class still got the majority of questions wrong? something must be up...

Well I thought he presented the material in a very organized way. I later found out he was an English Lit major in college, which explains why everything was phrased well.

But in the typical class, a large chunk of people don't study or didn't care. His exam questions were not based on the book, and only slightly based on his notes because he expected people to grasp the material from lecture and regurgitate it on a higher level. One of the only reasons why I liked being in his class, though, is because he had this weird way of motivating you. He'd give these long talks to the class about how disappointed he was, how we should be going to office hours if we don't understand it, and how we would probably fail in the future if we didn't grasp OChem. A little dramatic, but it worked for a lot of people. If you didn't do well on an exam, he didn't make you feel stupid--he just made you feel like you didn't try hard enough and that you let him down in addition to yourself. I guess it's a pseudo-psychological thing, but don't some people try harder when they feel like other people are counting on them?

 

[Arc]

i would avoid any mention of curves (or lack thereof 🙄). Med schools dont typically have curves, and I bet most adcoms would take the "well they didnt curve our grades that much" excuse as your way of displacing all the blame (making you look ill-prepared for med school). So I wouldnt mention it in the application. Maybe if it comes up in an interview you could address it more professionally?

btw, dont adcoms already have a good idea about grade inflations for specific undergrad schools?

Hence the reason for taking MCAT...

Anyway, My Core Bio class grade was upscaled to a B, and my Chem grade stayed a C (Pretty good considering I failed the final). Zoology on the other hand was a C, the teacher didn't curve, but he did give us around 20 pts of extra credit. I would have got a B if I didn't skewer the Anatomy intro section...

And the funny thing is that in the Organic subsection of Gen Chem I got 90% without the curve.

 

[Arc]

I love my science courses because the Professors refuse to scale.

In my 2nd semester of general biology there were only like 2 or three exams. We had people TANKING these things (i.e. like 30) and the class average was easily below an F. Was there a curve? No way...just an admonishment to do better.

That class was awesome.

Same thing happened in my Bio class, then the prof announced that grades will be scaled while we were taking the final.

 

[MossPoh]

i would avoid any mention of curves (or lack thereof 🙄). Med schools dont typically have curves, and I bet most adcoms would take the "well they didnt curve our grades that much" excuse as your way of displacing all the blame (making you look ill-prepared for med school). So I wouldnt mention it in the application. Maybe if it comes up in an interview you could address it more professionally?

btw, dont adcoms already have a good idea about grade inflations for specific undergrad schools?

but not every medical school does the A-F grading scheme either. Honestly, 92% of the human anatomy to get an A is pretty tough....My dad has been practicing medicine for over 40 years and still has to look up what certain things are called as a radiologist. I think a blanket statement about what med schools do or don't do is a bit off. Just like the MCAT for undergrad, the USMLE is the great equalizer. Also, grades aren't AS critical in medical school anyway (for the pre-clinical years).

 

[Bacchus]

That was like a normal average in orgo at my alma mater!👎
Some profs worked their hardest to make sure you felt stupid...The whip was cracked hard and often

I always wanted to sit in a Penn class since you guys are just right up the street.

 

[Mace1370]

At UCLA science classes aren't curved in the traditional "bell curve" sense. Grades are averaged and the class average is set at a C+ or B- depending on the professor. The range of grades is usually 1 to 1.5 standard deviations away from the mean. However, my professors have rarely given me exact numbers, since I think there are departmental guidelines for my major that define how many people in a class can get an A, how many can get a B, etc.

 

[seadizzle]

I TA'ed for a graduate math class that the prof aimed at around 50% for the final. He ended up with a 60%, and it made for a absolutely beautiful bell curve of grades. Very easy to separate the As, Bs, ... It was a difficult test that was much more than regurgitation of information and you most certainly earned the grade you received. If you have the whole class crunched >80% there is much less difference between students of different abilites/knowledge, and easier to end up with a different grade.

It might be a knock to your ego to not get a 90%+, but put it in context with the difficulty of the test and the purpose of the test to differentiate those who understand and can perform from those who can't.

 

[gotmeds?]

I was wondering what the curves are like in everyone's science classes? At my school, averages tend to be between 40 and 65 percent, and the mean is curved to the lowest C-. Basically, 40% of each hard science class doesn't pass, they methodically weed people out. I was wondering if other people's schools are this competitive. If not, would it be prudent to mention this in an application somewhere? I got a C+ in a notoriously tough class last semester, but it was still top 40% of the class. What do you think?

You'd sound pretty silly complaining that you got a C+ when you were only in the top 40% of the class. The average grade is supposed to be a C and you got a slightly above average grade for being slightly above the class average. What's the problem?

 

[Arc]

You'd sound pretty silly complaining that you got a C+ when you were only in the top 40% of the class. The average grade is supposed to be a C and you got a slightly above average grade for being slightly above the class average. What's the problem?

But a C+ is sooooo close to a B!!!!!!1!!
Actually getting just above average grades isn't exactly going to make is application look pretty come time to apply for school, and comparing your performance to the class average sounds more like a excuse to accept the grade, than to press for a higher one.

 

[ESzczesniak]

I was wondering what the curves are like in everyone's science classes? At my school, averages tend to be between 40 and 65 percent, and the mean is curved to the lowest C-. Basically, 40% of each hard science class doesn't pass, they methodically weed people out. I was wondering if other people's schools are this competitive. If not, would it be prudent to mention this in an application somewhere? I got a C+ in a notoriously tough class last semester, but it was still top 40% of the class. What do you think?

True bell curve. 10% A's an F's. 40% C's and then 20% each for B's and D's. I know a lot of people hate it, bit I think it's the way curves should be done. A class where 30% of the people get A's is ridiculous.

 

[Mace1370]

True bell curve. 10% A's an F's. 40% C's and then 20% each for B's and D's. I know a lot of people hate it, bit I think it's the way curves should be done. A class where 30% of the people get A's is ridiculous.

So in my anatomy class only 10% should get As and 20% Bs, which is filled with paranoid pre-meds, where about 70% of the class got at least 80% of the total points?

 

[bioteach]

I teach Bio I and II as well as Human A&P at the local college and community college levels. My students piss and moan about the fact that I expect the average in the class to be a mid C. Yes, C is average, folks. Roughly half the class above, half the class below. Man, do they hate to hear that. I remember many classes in my own college days where the averages would be in the low D range.

My own teaching philosophy is that if the class average on a test is <70%, then you F'd up writing the test or TEACHING it in the first place. Funny how few professors agree with that concept.