cutting through the bs...

[Law2Doc]

There are a number of reasons why the MD degree is desirable. It's an incredibly versatile degree. As an MD, you can open up a private practice, be a surgeon, work a clinic for the poor (in the US), or do international medicine, basic or clinical research, public health and health care politics, medical/malpractice law, etc. I can think of no other degree that intersects so many different career paths. It's not all about prestige or money. Money and prestige and stability are *bonuses* of the profession, but undoubtedly, the M.D. degree is significantly more powerful and flexible than the Ph.D., J.D., M.B.A., M.P.H., etc.

You undermine your argument when you say that an MD is more versatile than a JD and then list a job in which you would still need a JD, such as medmal. Also note that the mere MD doesn't let you "be a surgeon" -- the lengthy residency after a successful match is what lets you be a surgeon -- so perhaps the MD is not necessarilly so versatile in this direction.
Of course the MD is a very versitile degree. But I think you are missing a lot of the comparable flexibility in each of these other degrees, particularly the MBA which as a degree potentially covers at least five fields (management, marketing, accounting, finance, operations/consulting) & is not even tied to a single industry.

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[Sicilian]

So I was musing and I began to wonder... with the ridiculous competition to get into medical school and the presence of so many great scientific minds in schools such as MIT, Berkley etc... why is it that medical school averages are around 30MCAT and 3.5 GPA? I mean surely there are enough people in the US smart enough to score a 35+ and have a 3.8+ to completely fill US medical schools... but obviously these people are not going to meidcal school... so the question is... where do these people go after undergrad?... my guess is they go into research and become professors... so its obviously not the great scientific minds persay that go to medical school... so is it the humanitarians who go the medical school?... one would guess not becuase it seems they typically flock to areas such as social work, facilitaing individuals with disabilities, and working for nonprofit orgnaizations etc... So the question is.... who actually goes to medical school?
I have come to realize that it is not the great scientfic minds nor the selfless humanitarians but instead those individuals who desire the glamor of being a "humanitarian" and a "scientific mind" without having to suffer the "horror" of being a low paid/prestige lacking social worker or researcher...

I realize that some of you might consider this post to be inflamatory; however, I just wish to recieve some logical/lucid/constructive thought on this matter...

I am sure some of you might post comments along this vein...

"Your a troll"

"How dare you acuse me of not being a humanitarian.. you don't know me"

and of course
"You don't deserve to be a doctor"

While these type of responses are quite humorous... they are not what I am going for so try to keep those to a minimum... thanks...

As far as I know, this occurs only in North America. Just about anywhere else in the world, you get a certain exam score as per secondary school, along with high grades, and you're in. IMO, that system makes a whole lot more sense, especially if you consider that, yes, everywhere else in the world except North America, its common to start med school at 17. So why does North America choose to be different? Simple. Medical schools (in North America) are costly as hell to maintain, since everything is so state-of-the-art, not to mention the cost of training a doctor here in general. This whole holistic approach thingie that they use to screen applicants is just a front to cover up high costs.

 

[Law2Doc]

As far as I know, this occurs only in North America. Just about anywhere else in the world, you get a certain exam score as per secondary school, along with high grades, and you're in. IMO, that system makes a whole lot more sense, especially if you consider that, yes, everywhere else in the world except North America, its common to start med school at 17. So why does North America choose to be different? Simple. Medical schools (in North America) are costly as hell to maintain, since everything is so state-of-the-art, not to mention the cost of training a doctor here in general. This whole holistic approach thingie that they use to screen applicants is just a front to cover up high costs.

The schools themselves are probably not that costly -- I imagine most private med schools in the US make money. It is the rest of the health care system that is costly. But that relates far more to things like insurance, lawsuits, and consumer expectations (in terms of "state of the art" healthcare, drugs and procedures) in this country than to the cost of education.
Also, at the risk of throwing this discussion off onto a tangent, bear in mind that in countries where people start med school at 17 many fail out before reaching the goal, still more who would have been good doctors never follow that path because the decision point arrives too early, and a ton of the smartest people do not pursue this profession due to flaws and limitations inherent in socialized medicine. In the US, where getting acceptance is the biggest hurdle, very few fail out, and most decisions are more thought out as they were made over a longer time. Not sure if one system is per se better than the other -- both have problems, but it's silly to suggest the system is meant as a "cover up".

 

[Shredder]

You undermine your argument when you say that an MD is more versatile than a JD and then list a job in which you would still need a JD, such as medmal. Also note that the mere MD doesn't let you "be a surgeon" -- the lengthy residency after a successful match is what lets you be a surgeon -- so perhaps the MD is not necessarilly so versatile in this direction.
Of course the MD is a very versitile degree. But I think you are missing a lot of the comparable flexibility in each of these other degrees, particularly the MBA which as a degree potentially covers at least five fields (management, marketing, accounting, finance, operations/consulting) & is not even tied to a single industry.

i think at least MBA is more flexibile than MD. dunno about the other degrees, but they have flexibility within their realms too. to me it seems to biggest draw in medicine is the security and stability that isnt found in other career paths. guaranteed 150k and employment just cannot be found anywhere else. i think that leads to problems in healthcare and i dont support that phenomenon, but for now its still true

 

[Jon Davis]

I am interested in learning more about the MBA. I have kept investing and business as a hobby for many years now but from what I have read, the MD/MBA is mainly for the administrative types. I am interested in using an MBA to learn more about running a medical clinic on my own, even as far as medical industry analyst with a firm. Any ideas? (I have no course background in business, just as a hobby.)

 

[Shredder]

I am interested in learning more about the MBA. I have kept investing and business as a hobby for many years now but from what I have read, the MD/MBA is mainly for the administrative types. I am interested in using an MBA to learn more about running a medical clinic on my own, even as far as medical industry analyst with a firm. Any ideas? (I have no course background in business, just as a hobby.)

i say go for it, its only an extra year if schools offer that option. swing by md/mba forum and check it out some, also md-mba.org i think, partners with sdn. i think its great to learn about the business side of healthcare, as it is all a business and subject to constraints as such, and also the little extra tuition can be justified by the knowledge and later rewards. but im young and have yet to learn, so dont listen too much. read up on some of the schools' descriptions of it and brochures, brettbatchelor made a good list of them in the med business area

 

[45408]

Maybe it's less common in the USA, but I can assure you that the medical students here are the cream of the crop when it comes to academic performance. Of course there are brilliant folks who'd rather pursue mathematics or quantum physics and all that, but from my own experience, these guys are the minority. People with the best grades end up in med school.

yeah, I'd say that it's not the same in the US. Many people smarter than I have decided to into other fields. For the most part, you go into medicine because it actually interests you - not because it's the default route if you're smart.

 

[LabMonster]

He is right about the intellectual capacity necessary for medicine, though. You don't have to be brilliant or a genius to get through it. The material is really not at that high a level of intellect. A lot of my college classes were a lot harder than anything I've been doing for the past couple years. Don't know how much people are aware of this fact. med school's volume volume volume.

Right, but if you can't think and don't connect the dots (ie the volumes of crap in your brain) - your patient dies.

Medicine is like any other profession, you need people with certain skills. Not all medical students can become excellent carpenters and not all carpenters can become excellent physicians. Different jobs, different skills and much more competition to simply get into medicine among a small subset of society.