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Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by kundun, Sep 20, 2001.
william kirby 2000 grad of nova southeastern college of osteopathic medicine
Ok....now the AOA has someone in the national spotlight....I know he played a tough game but, he is in the position to make the DO name heard around the nation....I hope the AOA can make something out of this.
What could the AOA possibly do with this to make the D.O. a household name?
It's a ridiculous show, for one, and if this show and William Kirby are what the osteopathic profession is resting on, that's beyond pathetic and sad.
Yea! Have to agree.... this is the LAST guy you want as a spokesman for a profession. If Anything the AOA prolly needs to say "Sorry, we made a mistake training this guy--most of us aren't like that."
I think the guy has a limited future in Osteopathy now, if he walked into a consulting room and I were the patient, I would fire him on the spot and send him away...
Best to All...JA
Some thoughts on BB2 below--but remember I am a VERY bad typist....
I disliked Nicole a little, but hated Will more...and am sad he
won...what a peice of trash...
The first BB was 12 interesting people (arguably) put in a close
space and watched....this was 12 people--11 of whom already had
agents--picked for the likelyhood they would fight...and put in a
house designed to make them irratable...
But when you think about it, look at the differences between the
first and second Survivors too....
For a lot of reasons I won't get into...people are fractured and un-
whole in this culture--AND they know it and they are constantly
reminded of it.....these shows are so attractive because they are a
CARACATURE of adventure or fraternity/comradism or wholeness...and
that is fine...but it seems that the first show is more genuine than
the second..and the second one is just a ratings ploy, not only for
the network--all shows are that to them--but also for ALL the
I guess if I could pick my opwn winner for BB2 I would vote for
prolly Kent, Hardy, Bunky, Cheryl... Will, Shannon, Autaum, Mike,
and Mrs. Mike (Krista) are soulless... I think Nicole means well,
but simply doesn't have any manners... To a lesser degree I think
the same could be said for Monica--but I think Monica has A LOT of
neurotic conflicts in her...she has no logic skills...and I would
reinterate that i think if someone is really a "strong" woman, then
she should be able to get what she wants by being a gentlewoman..
Justin was designed to be the "Eddie pro Tem" I think...he clearly
has issues... I hope he and all of them get help...
I think Will has ruined any hope of being a doctor...I know if he
walked into a consulting room where I was a patient, i would fire him
immediately and send him on his way...
Well I have watched--in large part--Surv. Surv 2, BB, BB2, BootCamp,
Bands on the Run, and now the Amazing Race...not any of the
others...And I, like others, am attracted to the "contrived imagry"
or Caractaturism of Adventure...I see a similar dynamic in these as
the "aspirational lifestyle" advertising of A&F et c..
but I think these shows will die down a bit as people get their fill
of them...or else, they will need to be knew and original...I cannot
see a series of one show running and running...ratings for S2 was
lower than S1 and i suspect S3 will be worse...
I enjoyed the show and I am glad Will won the game. Why does he have to be the spokesperson for the D.O community?
The majority of doctors are obnoxious and self centered. Finding a competent doctor with compassion is like finding a good man.
I think Will's personality is characteristic of most doctors. Not all doctors care about their patients welfare. Some are attracted to the profession because of the prestige and they can.
Don't get me wrong, I think medicine is the greatest profession on earth and relish the opportunity to become a physician. However, I'm simply dissatisfied with the quality of care docs provide to patients. Managed care can not be held accountable for all of health care problems.
Medical school can't teach you to give a damm. Does 3.8, 40 mean good doc? I think not.
Managed care is more to blame than you might think, and until you sit in a medical school and experience all the "glory" of being a medical student and talk to a few residents and interns on a near-peer level, making broad, sweeping generalizations on the whole medical profession is dangerous.
Does 3.8 and a 40 MCAT mean a good doctor? It sure as hell does in my book -- more so than a 3.2 and 27 MCAT with that elusive "compassion" factor.
if you think a high undergrad GPA and MCAT score equates to being a good physician you're more of an idiot than I thought
Will deserves the money...he was by far the most entertaining person on the show. It seems to me that Will would give up medicine for any job in entertainment. Like so many people before him, he saw this gig as a stepping stone to Hollywood. Didn't the neurologist from Survivor become a correspondent for CBS?
You are totally missing the point. I couldn't care less what a few residents feel. I'm speaking to you from a patient's point of view. Remember the patients. The population that you serve. Is managed care to blame for lack of compassion? I don't care how brillant you proclaim to be. If you don't listen to your patients, you will pay in the long run. I dont mean to personalize this but the difficulty of medical school and the long hrs residents put in does not justisfy the problem. No one said becoming a doctor would be easy.When a doctor screws up, it can cost someone their live.
What type of population do you plan to serve. I service the chinatown area and the majority of these people are on medicaid. Medicaid does not reimburse well. Many of my docs advise these members to choose a managed care plan. Why? Because we pay better. I have docs who wont see Medicaid members. They say, "I cant survive on Medicaid rates"
What about the poor? What about their health care? Managed care is far from perfect but it helps the poor access adequate health care. Competent office staff can go a longway. Hiring your wife, mother or sister is not going to cut it. Managed care is not a simple process. You really need to know what you are doing in order to florish.
Oh come on Tim, you know that's not always the case. Does the high grades make it easier to pass boards? Probably. But a better doctor? Hell no. The ability to take tests has nothing to do with how well you can dx and tx a patient. There are plenty out there that can ace any exam you put in front of them. But have them run a real code with a dying patient in front of them, where they have to act now and not sit and think about it in their seat or go tx another pt and then come back to this one while they think about it, I'll go up against them any time (me, graduating in the lower third of my class). Though I do admit I am a trauma-junkie
And yasostegirl is correct on her point too. The patient's perspective is completely different than the admin committees or even peer perspective. There are plenty of top-notch students I know, that I just cannot imagine what it will be like when the day comes they have to tell someone that their family member died. I certainly hope that they will have obtained some of the "elusive compassion factor" by then.
But I am in TOTAL agreement regarding the show BB2. What a waste. And is this true? I have since heard that he was asked if he would donate any of his winnings to the WTC/Pentagon relief effort, and he said "ZERO" I heard this on the radio this morning but maybe I heard wrong!
You heard right....
When it was just Nicole and him in the house he was worrying about what would happen to him--before he knew he had won...and he clearly wants to milk the fame...the wants to write a screen play of a medical thriller he has in mind...do commercials, et c...said he's pose in playgirl for $100K...
Look at Josh from BB1--and people actually liked him--he is only doing minor modeling...I think the Mike Boogie guest apprearence thing is about the best Will can hope for too...
I would say that a weaker student who is honest and decent would be more desirable to me as my doctor... I will take an educated gentleman or woman (real meaning of word...not modern usage) over a soulless trained-technician.. I know I have ushed this before, but I really do highly suggest to you all Dr. Allan Bloom's "Closing of the Amercian Mind: How Higher Eduaction has failed Democracy and Impovrished the Souls of Today's Students." In the middle of the last century there was a neurosurgeon named Wilder Penfeild..not the brightest guy ever or best student, but always did well enough to move on to the next level... but he had character and drive and an ability for genuine critical thinking... look at the creative, orginal and meaningful work he did... a 4.0 GPA perfect MedCAT guy is less likely to question or be creative and challanging... anyways... I ramble yet again...
Best to All...JA
Will is a joke....about everything that came out of his mouth is hot air. He's a cocky arrogant dork looking for attention. If you want to use him as a "showing piece" for DO's then you're just as stupid. What a disgrace not to the DO profession but more to himself. He acted like a fool. Even up to the end the guy is a moron. I'm pretty sure he'll just vanish from the spotlight now that the show is over. Good riddance.
Sure, Shannon looked pretty good all dressed up with the make up on and short dress but lets have a look at her when she's plain jane, will she look the same. Anyways, money isn't everything, the guy has no class, women are a dime a dozen just like men. Why do you even bother?
Will did exactly what he intended to do from the start of the show. You all have STRONG opinions of him because of that intention.
I never watched the show. I had no idea there was a DO on the show, or that he had won until after the show was over. That is great that he did what he set out to do, more power to him. But my STRONG opinions about him are being formed by his statements AFTER the show was over. He is no longer competing, yet is showing himself to be quite the dork (good description doughboy!). He is not someone I want as a colleague in the medical profession.
I'm sure Will would rather make a ridiculous amount of money for acting, modeling, etc. than to be a resident right now. I can't blame him for that. It may pay off for him.
I'm quite sure a lot of practicing physicians (D.O. and M.D.) are dorks! Good luck finding a profession where someone isn't doing their best to ruin it.
I think its great that Will had a plan and was able to execute it, but he showed too much of himself and there is nothing attractive about him. Also, he wasn't as charming as he thought he was.
I hope that by posting this message, I don't step on anyone's toes, so please do not take offense to this and excuse my rambling...
With that being said, I think you all are being alittle ridiculous about Will from BB2. I watched the show from start to finish and my parents even signed up to watch it 24/7 on the internet (which they pretty much did). Anyway, Will stated from the beginning that he would do anything possible to win the show, and you know what, HE DID! Also, people keep on saying that they would not want him as their personal Dr., but you forget that during the show, you never saw him with his patients. You only saw how he acted outside of the medical profession on a show where he was willing to do pretty much anything in order to win $500K. I am sure that he is very personable and knowledgeable when treating a patient, however when he hangs out with "friends" isn't he allowed to be a goofball and have fun??... It's obvious from the show that he has a personality (even if you don't agree with it...) And aren't the best doctors the ones with a personality?!?!?!
Also, if you ever watched the live feeds on the internet, you would know that Will actually used his osteopathic training many times. He performed various techniques (HVLA, Soft tissue, muscle energy, etc...) on other houseguests and made them feel better.
People started this thread asking if the AOA is going to monopolize on Will's win and my response is "why should they?" Many D.O.s do things in the spotlight all the time and the AOA doesn't use them for PR. For example, look at Ronald Blanck, D.O., former army surgeon general. The AOA didn't put his face all over magazines to get PR for the osteopathic profession.
Anyway, I think everyone is taking Will's winning alittle too seriously. He made the show very amusing and enjoyable and without him I believe the show would have been a total bore!!
Well said. I did see him perform OMM on a number of the house guests.
With all due respect to Dr. Blanck, no one in America would really give a flying rat's butt if the Surgeon General of the US Army is an osteopathic physician. I'm sure most Americans didn't even know the Army had a Surgeon General, and I'm sure that's why the AOA never "monopolized" on this make-believe fame that's circulated around the osteopathic community for the longest time.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's important and rather significant that the Army's Surgeon General is an osteopathic physician, I just don't think the general lay public really cares. And, remember, the AOA ain't marketing to a bunch of premeds.
But with this Will guy, it's even less important. Sure he's a well-known character to the American public, but who would really care if he was the national spokesperson for the AOA? How exactly would Will from Big Brother 2 make anyone ponder the meaning of osteopathic medicine or willing to explore the benefits of osteopathic manipulative treatment?
"I, Will, the Osteopathic Physican from Big Brother 2 would like to talk to you today about High-Velocity, Low Amplitude Osteopathic Manipulative Therapy." Are you kidding?
I think you missed the point of my last post... If you read the sentence above where you started quoting, I basically said that the AOA has NO reason for using Will as PR. He won a reality-based TV show and made $500K in the process. Big deal.
I would hope that if the AOA were to use an osteopathic physician as a spokesperson, they would pick someone who did something impressive WITHIN THE MEDICAL WORLD. As for what I said about Dr. Blanck, I was using him as an example. I wasn't specifically targeting him per se. However, now that I think about, there are a lot of people in this country who are in the military or are joining (especially now), so maybe Dr. Blanck wouldn't be such a bad idea???
I know what you've been saying all along, but I know the issue of the AOA's inept use of Dr. Blanck as some pawn in a national campaign to win over America was going to come up soon enough.
I agree with turtle and the others. I only saw 2-3 episodes of the first Big Brother and never an entire show. It's lame to see these people catering to the camera and to the nation. I've heard of this year's contestants though and have learned that the doctor on board was a DO. What the big fuss is about, I don't know. It'd be cool if a DO won a national science award or discovered a cure for something. Sadly some schmuck on a TV reality show hardly excites me as a spokesman for a medical profession. Anyone remember that neurologist on Survivor? That moron decided to leave medicine and pursue an acting career. All this from 15 minutes of TV fame. He was probably a bad doctor to begin with. The only truly well known DO doctor in my town, Las Vegas is the chief surgeon at UMC trauma center (you may have seen it many times on TLC). He started off at the FBI in forensics or something...anyway, moved his way up to some high title but switched careers to become a doctor in his 40s, got into DO school, and now heads the only trauma center in town. Kudos to him, he'd prob represent the AOA better than some guy on a "reality" tv show.