D1 in survival mode, I need some advice! Talk me out of dropping out please!

[Dentist_T]

So I have a question for you all.
I am D1, and I have had a hard time of letting go of those A's. I have a A/B average right now, and no C's as of yet, but finals are next week so we'll see . Because of some complicated mental and physical health issues I am slowly coming to terms with not being that A student, b/c frankly I have bigger fish to fry. But I am worried about what that means my future prospects will be. (also yes I am getting all of the medical help I can think of: therapy, various doctors etc)

Does the whole "don't worry about A's unless you want to specialize" also apply to GPR/AEGD residencies? Is the bar for getting into those programs lower or just as competitive? (I would assume it is the latter as many of those programs only have so many seats). Also are those programs even necessary? I mean I know it is a great way to get more experience, and ALL of my faculty recommend it with good reason. I would like to do a GPR/AEGD, but i'm worried my GPA will become a hindrance. I know its not bad now but I worry about future semesters, especially D2 which is the hardest year at my school. Which leads to my main point I suppose:

Because of my health issues I am being pulled away from class, honestly I feel like dropping out but I don't want to. I feel like I am in survival mode at the moment and I need to figure out how to approach the rest of school before it gets too financially complicated to back out you know?

When I'm in pain and can't sleep I can't help but think "this isn't worth it", but honestly? I have only seen myself as a dentist, this is the best career I can think of, so I feel stuck and overwhelmed. I want to keep going but I don't know how.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

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[Pablo Sanchez]

I just recently spent a week externing at a well-known GPR program. I know my experience is limited. It was only a week, but they were doing prophies, extractions, and fillings. They did a combined 2 or 3 molar root canals all week. There were complaints that they were doing too many comprehensive exams, and 0 implants were placed that week. All for $60,000 salary.

My take-away?

GPRs and AEGDs are not worth it FOR ME. I recognize some people need that extra structure, but I find that NOBODY has your financial best interest in mind. "Sure, go ahead and do a GPR. Extra education is great." They say. Well, what they don't consider is that the $100,000 difference in salary you give up to go to a GPR/AEGD is $100,000 you aren't putting towards your loans or investing. If you invest that $100,000 at 26 (when you graduate) and get a 10% return it is worth $5 million when you are 67.

My point in all of this? You just need the degree. Focus on passing. Learn from your clinical experience, and go out and get a job. Learning never stops. You will learn every day you go to work as a dentist, whether you did a specialty program or not. In fact, I'd argue you learn more from clinical practice than from a GPR/AEGD. Don't be so concerned about your GPA. Work hard. Focus on learning. The success will come.

Hope your medical concerns end up alright.

 

[Dentist_T]

I just recently spent a week externing at a well-known GPR program. I know my experience is limited. It was only a week, but they were doing prophies, extractions, and fillings. They did a combined 2 or 3 molar root canals all week. There were complaints that they were doing too many comprehensive exams, and 0 implants were placed that week. All for $60,000 salary.

My take-away?

GPRs and AEGDs are not worth it FOR ME. I recognize some people need that extra structure, but I find that NOBODY has your financial best interest in mind. "Sure, go ahead and do a GPR. Extra education is great." They say. Well, what they don't consider is that the $100,000 difference in salary you give up to go to a GPR/AEGD is $100,000 you aren't putting towards your loans or investing. If you invest that $100,000 at 26 (when you graduate) and get a 10% return it is worth $5 million when you are 67.

My point in all of this? You just need the degree. Focus on passing. Learn from your clinical experience, and go out and get a job. Learning never stops. You will learn every day you go to work as a dentist, whether you did a specialty program or not. In fact, I'd argue you learn more from clinical practice than from a GPR/AEGD. Don't be so concerned about your GPA. Work hard. Focus on learning. The success will come.

Hope your medical concerns end up alright.

Thank you so much for your input!
I re-read my original post and I was in a bit stressed when I wrote it... I guess that's what happens when you write it the night before a final

So, this was what I was leaning towards all along! I suppose I was spun into a bit of a panic listening to all the faculty and upperclassmen talking about residencies and what not. I guess at the end of the day I just need to put my head down and do my best.

I don't doubt I will be able to make it through dental school, barring any serious medical issues, and do reasonably well. I guess that's what matters.

So quick follow-up question, say you loose that 100,000k during the year you are doing a residency, but does that residency get you into a higher salary bracket faster once you are done? (My financial goal is to get as much money invested as soon as possible for the exact reason you listed above)

Like an engineer with a masters would start at a different pay grade than an engineer with an undergraduate... or does working for a few years in the field get you the same kind of experience.
Does that make sense?
Like aside from the continued education in a structured environment is there any other benefit to a GPR/AEGD?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Thank you so much for your input!
I re-read my original post and I was in a bit stressed when I wrote it... I guess that's what happens when you write it the night before a final

So, this was what I was leaning towards all along! I suppose I was spun into a bit of a panic listening to all the faculty and upperclassmen talking about residencies and what not. I guess at the end of the day I just need to put my head down and do my best.

I don't doubt I will be able to make it through dental school, barring any serious medical issues, and do reasonably well. I guess that's what matters.

So quick follow-up question, say you loose that 100,000k during the year you are doing a residency, but does that residency get you into a higher salary bracket faster once you are done? (My financial goal is to get as much money invested as soon as possible for the exact reason you listed above)

Like an engineer with a masters would start at a different pay grade than an engineer with an undergraduate... or does working for a few years in the field get you the same kind of experience.
Does that make sense?
Like aside from the continued education in a structured environment is there any other benefit to a GPR/AEGD?

It all depends on whether you know what you are looking for when you look for jobs. I'll tell you now that I will be going straight from dental school to work, and I am getting offers well-above what some of my peers a couple years ahead of me got after their GPR. The GPR might help you get a job in an office where the hiring dentist is specifically looking for someone who did a GPR, but there are plenty of offices willing to hire and train a new graduate.

Additionally, being a year ahead in clinical practice often times means you are a year closer to practice ownership. Most people who do a GPR/AEGD don't go straight out and open an office. They work a few years as an associate first to build the confidence and the capital to be able to buy or open an office. If you go straight out you're building that confidence and capital sooner.

 

[TanMan]

So I have a question for you all.
I am D1, and I have had a hard time of letting go of those A's. I have a A/B average right now, and no C's as of yet, but finals are next week so we'll see . Because of some complicated mental and physical health issues I am slowly coming to terms with not being that A student, b/c frankly I have bigger fish to fry. But I am worried about what that means my future prospects will be. (also yes I am getting all of the medical help I can think of: therapy, various doctors etc)

Does the whole "don't worry about A's unless you want to specialize" also apply to GPR/AEGD residencies? Is the bar for getting into those programs lower or just as competitive? (I would assume it is the latter as many of those programs only have so many seats). Also are those programs even necessary? I mean I know it is a great way to get more experience, and ALL of my faculty recommend it with good reason. I would like to do a GPR/AEGD, but i'm worried my GPA will become a hindrance. I know its not bad now but I worry about future semesters, especially D2 which is the hardest year at my school. Which leads to my main point I suppose:

Because of my health issues I am being pulled away from class, honestly I feel like dropping out but I don't want to. I feel like I am in survival mode at the moment and I need to figure out how to approach the rest of school before it gets too financially complicated to back out you know?

When I'm in pain and can't sleep I can't help but think "this isn't worth it", but honestly? I have only seen myself as a dentist, this is the best career I can think of, so I feel stuck and overwhelmed. I want to keep going but I don't know how.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Depending on your health issues (mental and/or physical), you have to determine whether this will interfere with your practice in the future. Mental health is important because the question you need to ask yourself is will you post an immediate/imminent danger to your patients due to your mental health issues. If it does and you still want to pursue dentistry, you may have to look at a facet of dentistry that does not require direct patient care (opath/orad/lab research, etc.). Physical has a little more tolerance as you have the flexibility on procedures that you choose to perform.

Second, why are you look at GPR/AEGD residencies? I don't know if they are competitive or not, but back in my days, they weren't very selective and considered a fallback + everyone who wanted to got into an AEGD/GPR.

Given what I've said above, you should drop out if you meet these criterias:
1. You don't think you can practice because of progressively worsening mental/physical health status that would impair the part of dentistry you want work in.
2. The debt you have now doesn't impact your life in the long term, meaning you can walk away and the debt won't bother you.
3. You can't work through your current issues.

Clinical dentistry is even more demanding - physically and mentally. Not every patient encounter is an ideal one and it does take a toll on you.

 

[2TH MVR]

So I have a question for you all.
I am D1, and I have had a hard time of letting go of those A's. I have a A/B average right now, and no C's as of yet, but finals are next week so we'll see . Because of some complicated mental and physical health issues I am slowly coming to terms with not being that A student, b/c frankly I have bigger fish to fry. But I am worried about what that means my future prospects will be. (also yes I am getting all of the medical help I can think of: therapy, various doctors etc)

Does the whole "don't worry about A's unless you want to specialize" also apply to GPR/AEGD residencies? Is the bar for getting into those programs lower or just as competitive? (I would assume it is the latter as many of those programs only have so many seats). Also are those programs even necessary? I mean I know it is a great way to get more experience, and ALL of my faculty recommend it with good reason. I would like to do a GPR/AEGD, but i'm worried my GPA will become a hindrance. I know its not bad now but I worry about future semesters, especially D2 which is the hardest year at my school. Which leads to my main point I suppose:

Because of my health issues I am being pulled away from class, honestly I feel like dropping out but I don't want to. I feel like I am in survival mode at the moment and I need to figure out how to approach the rest of school before it gets too financially complicated to back out you know?

When I'm in pain and can't sleep I can't help but think "this isn't worth it", but honestly? I have only seen myself as a dentist, this is the best career I can think of, so I feel stuck and overwhelmed. I want to keep going but I don't know how.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

I think you are getting ahead of yourself as a D1. Stop worrying about A's/B's or getting into a GPR/AEGD. As others have opined .... these residencies are not necessary if you are going into general dentistry. If your goal is specialization .... that's a different situation.

Not knowing about your mental/physical issues ..... but you made it to DS. If you can tough it out .... then there are some non-clinical dental professions available such as academics.

Stay the course. Make your health a priority. Be focused on being a good clinical general dentist. Do the best you can, but graduate. One step at a time.

 

[Hi polo pick]

^Agreed. From what Ive heard gpr/aegd are not THAT hard to get into that youre trying to be an A+ student. Second of all, stop caring about having the best grades ever. Youre not even close to the point of doing poorly enough to drop out imo. If you need to for medical reasons, take a leave and come back. But it sounds like youre doing great up to this point.

 

[Rfrosty]

I apologize if I am making incorrect assumptions. This post screams out to me, "I didn't realize what I was getting myself into so now I'm panicking, I'm afraid I don't want to/can't be a dentist and now I'm freaking out because of the debt I'll be in if I try to back out later so I need to figure that out right now."

Making decisions while panicking is a poor idea and will usually leads to poor decisions. Not easy to think rationally when your frontal cortices are being overpowered by your more primitive parts of the brain. Here's what I'd like you to do
1. Take a few days to chill over break (assuming you're on a Christmas break)
2. Ask yourself if you actually enjoy dentistry or chose dental school because you didn't know what else you should do.
3. If you need more time to think take the intermediate between staying and dropping out. Take a semester or year off for medical/mental health reasons (beware, you may need to repeat year 1)
4. You can decide to be all in for dental school. HOWEVER, you must come up with a reason you are stiafied with. You can decide to be all out HOWEVER you must come up with a plan for other jobs, continuing education, and paying back student loans. There's no in between decision.
5. Don't pick the one that's less stressful. Pick the one that YOU WANT because, here comes the kicker, it doesn't matter what you pick its all going to be stressful. What matters is whether or not you feel you're doing something worthwhile enough that you don't mind the stress.
6. Follow through and live a happy life doing something you enjoy. Not something you picked on a whim or because its all you could see yourself doing without having explored other options.

Look man, I struggle with mental health and I was where you were at. But I stuck with it and stress is incomparably higher than 1st year but I'm fine. Because I've adapted and so will you if you stick with it. Wax up 2 crowns? Roger. Class IV #8? Sounds good. Crown on #2 on your patient with limited opening ugh fine dammit I guess I have to. I believe you could get through fine and do your unnecessary GPR/AEGD if you wanted to just fine. I'm more worried about your future when you spent 4 years fighting tooth and nail for a job you hate and the debt to prove it. Life's too short man if you don't like dentistry then pick something you do. I say that with love not malice and I hope that's how this comes off. I am very tired but I wanted to address this. Just couldn't let it be after I read it over.

 

[Hi polo pick]

Good point, but also I think majority of my class falls in two categories, putting on a front of being deeply in love with dentistry, "shower me in caries baby", "dentistry is a god send". Or burnt out and over it. I think its a little normal to be over dentistry along the way and Ive heard that once you get into clinic or start practicing you start to enjoy it a little more.

 

[ESPN907]

You’ll be fine, been though similar things, still going through similar things…at some point doing dentistry itself will be what gives you a sense of purpose (hopefully) so stick it out and you won’t be disappointed (maybe)

 

[Dentist_T]

Hello all who responded in this thread last year. Thank you so so much!!
My medical issues (both mental and physical) took a turn for the worse, but because of that I know more about what is going on and can better handle it.
I am now in the middle of my second year, I've decided to stick it out. Not going to lie I am still panicking a little bit.. @Rfrosty you hit the nail right on the head. I think ultimately the stress of school is making my body shut down, which is making me doubt all of my abilities and frankly, my motivations of why I wanted to be here to begin with.

I think I need to keep visualizing what I want in my future, get reconnected with why I chose this path to begin with. It was nice to revisit this thread a year later, and a year more in the program and all of its added perspective.
I guess at the end of the day I just need to decide and have faith in that decision.

 

[gryffindor]

Glad to read your update. Dental school made all of us panic at some point, even the coolest and most laid back among us.

Keep working hard. It will pay off!

 

[Dentist_T]

Glad to read your update. Dental school made all of us panic at some point, even the coolest and most laid back among us.

Keep working hard. It will pay off!

I am quickly coming to learn that. Sometimes it feels like you are all on your own, that everyone around you is soooo sure of their motivations for being here. I have found that that is a load of BS. I think everyone is burnt out and disenchanted at one point or another.

I do have one follow up question for you all though:

What is it like on the other side?
Everything right now feels like one hellish grind that I'm just stumbling through, and I know that is obviously cause of the environment here. but does it continue once I'm practicing? I worry that the grind wont end, and life is too short to be spent like that in my opinion.

 

[schmoob]

I am quickly coming to learn that. Sometimes it feels like you are all on your own, that everyone around you is soooo sure of their motivations for being here. I have found that that is a load of BS. I think everyone is burnt out and disenchanted at one point or another.

I do have one follow up question for you all though:

What is it like on the other side?
Everything right now feels like one hellish grind that I'm just stumbling through, and I know that is obviously cause of the environment here. but does it continue once I'm practicing? I worry that the grind wont end, and life is too short to be spent like that in my opinion.

Don’t worry about your grades, just get your diploma and your license. I personally didn’t do a GPR and got right to work. It was fast paced and I had guidance for tougher procedures. I know for a fact I had better skills then colleagues who did a GPR, but there were other colleagues who did very good GPR’s who were awesome doctors. I didn’t learn implants my first year, I learned in my own time. No colleague doctor, no assistant, no patient asked about my grades. No one cares. We are our own worst enemies. Do your best to learn what you can while in school but don’t worry about your GPA, it will help your mental health. You’re going to be a doctor as long as you stick it out and just get through it.

 

[Cold Front]

Don’t worry about your grades, just get your diploma and your license. I personally didn’t do a GPR and got right to work. It was fast paced and I had guidance for tougher procedures. I know for a fact I had better skills then colleagues who did a GPR, but there were other colleagues who did very good GPR’s who were awesome doctors. I didn’t learn implants my first year, I learned in my own time. No colleague doctor, no assistant, no patient asked about my grades. No one cares. We are our own worst enemies. Do your best to learn what you can while in school but don’t worry about your GPA, it will help your mental health. You’re going to be a doctor as long as you stick it out and just get through it.

Exactly, no one cares. Even a dentist with straight C’s from dental school is still a doctor to patients, and can lead a very successful career, and can be financially accomplished. All dental school is (or was) to people like me is a lousy boot camp. You just have to get through it even if you suck at it.

The big test is not finishing dental school (99% of students graduate on time and join the workforce), but what actually happens after dental school.

 

[gryffindor]

What is it like on the other side?
Everything right now feels like one hellish grind that I'm just stumbling through, and I know that is obviously cause of the environment here. but does it continue once I'm practicing? I worry that the grind wont end, and life is too short to be spent like that in my opinion.

It's a different kind of stress. One where you have more control. As a new grad, you will come across jobs that suck, jobs that are decent, and jobs that you love. It will be up to you to keep on pushing to find more the better jobs and minimize or eliminate the jobs that suck. This might mean a longer commute, a less than ideal schedule, moving to a different part of the country, or maybe the stars will align and you will have the ideal commute, the ideal schedule, the ideal location and a job you love. If you buy or a start your own practice, there will be a lot of lousy things to do but some really cool benefits too. But it doesn't feel like that horrible pressure we had in dental school anymore.