Dads of Private Practice - how much time did you take off for paternity leave?

[Angus Avagadro]

No paternity leave available when my kids were born. My wife was a full time doc. She got 6 weeks maternity.each time. We had a nanny on work days, but still had to be interchangeable due to call, so we were. Post call days the nanny didnt work. When the wife was on call, I was in charge. She wasn't always happy with that. On Saturdays when she was working, I would declare it Man Day where in the morning we would eat peanut butter out of the jar and watch the 3 Stooges in our underwear. Both were good athletes and kept out of trouble. One is a Doc and the other has a degree in law enforcement. They both own their own homes now and pay taxes. So whatever that bond thing is that everyone talks about, it aparently happened.My wife and I have declared victory.

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[ASA6]

But preach on Millenials, you've got the world figured out. I know you've been raised to think the word will change if you just speak up, but it's really not like that.

What's funny is that if you trained after the work hour restrictions you are probably a millennial yourself! But you also contradict yourself. You say you had no choice, but then admit you could have taken time off and made it up at the end of residency but chose not to. To be clear I'm not saying you should have, that's up to you and your partner. But that was a choice you made. My program let me move a week of vacation and take a week of "conference time" for 2 weeks off. You even said you chose a trip to Hawaii over taking the time off.

But preach on, fellow millennial! Way to be a "tough Doctor" that doesn't take time off.

 

[Bertelman]

Gen X

You really don’t know me like you think you do.

Your username checks out.

 

[nimbus]

More of a moms of private practice question but what are nursing mothers doing, especially those in MD only practices? It seems like it would be easier to make time for pumping in academics or ACT practices.

Our group recently gave guidance that they can delay cases if necessary in order to pump between cases. In the past they would try to find someone who was free between cases to give them a “pump break”. It didn’t always work. I know someone who had to cover herself with a surgical gown and pump in the operating room with a wearable breast pump. So much easier to be a man in this profession.

 

[Bertelman]

More of a moms of private practice question but what are nursing mothers doing, especially those in MD only practices? It seems like it would be easier to make time for pumping in academics or ACT practices.

Our group recently gave guidance that they can delay cases if necessary in order to pump between cases. In the past they would try to find someone who was free between cases to give them a “pump break”. It didn’t always work. I know someone who had to cover herself with a surgical gown and pump in the operating room with a wearable breast pump. So much easier to be a man in this profession.

We’ve got a couple anesthetists that would routinely use wearable breast pumps in the OR.

Changed our practice a little when we found out one even brought a little cooler in there for storage during the day.

 

[OTCAwesome]

Took off 2.5 weeks with our almost 2 year old, wasn't enough time. Plan to take 3.5 off with our second in December then less call while our son adjusts to his baby brother and we adjust to going from "zone" to "man-to-man" defense.

 

[Bertelman]

Stop at man to man. Parenting with 10 on the field scares me.

 

[cchoukal]

Stop at man to man. Parenting with 10 on the field scares me.

Agreed. I have been solo with my three-year-old twins all weekend, and this version of the zone defense is terrible. I am overmatched!

 

[NVO]

Hey, you guys totally got me figured out. Great psychoanalysis on an Internet forum.

Let me tell you how it worked- I WAS A RESIDENT. I had no "partners" to barter vacation days. I couldn't demand the extra days and just take no pay. Every additional day I took off was another day I had to tag on to the end of my residency to complete my training. Call BS on the ACGME, not me. My PD was actually a very nice guy. But I promise he was going to have no sympathy for me. He had it just as bad when he was a resident. And I completed my training AFTER the 80-hr work restrictions.

Did I talk to my spouse? OF COURSE I DID. I gave her the zero-sum game of time off in residency. For every day I take off now, that's one less day I get later. I also knew what I was doing. We entered residency with a 3-month old and had another CA-2 year. I intentionally chose a program close to her in-laws. My parents flew in for the birth, her parents came in a couple weeks later for support. So spare me the lecture about divorce rates. We have been happily married for 19 years. I've spent no more than 2-3 weeks away from her, cumulatively, since we met in 2001. We are doing just fine, thanks.

Thats tough. Per ACGME rules residents must be afforded paternity leave (FMLA) w/o extension of residency (there are specific stipulations for ABA that I wont go into here unless someone's interested). I took 4 weeks paternity as a CA-2. No significant extra work for other residents and not much re-arranging of my schedule as I was just one less person in the peel off system. My program knew early enough that I wasnt put on call and all calls even out eventually. Plenty of other residents take paternity/maternity leave and we all support them and have a culture in which it's not looked down upon.

 

[Bertelman]

I'm glad that has changed, but that wasn't ACGME 15 years ago. I also went to a smaller residency program, and 1 out of the call pool had a small but noticeable affect.

 

[DaisyBuchanan]

More of a moms of private practice question but what are nursing mothers doing, especially those in MD only practices? It seems like it would be easier to make time for pumping in academics or ACT practices.

Our group recently gave guidance that they can delay cases if necessary in order to pump between cases. In the past they would try to find someone who was free between cases to give them a “pump break”. It didn’t always work. I know someone who had to cover herself with a surgical gown and pump in the operating room with a wearable breast pump. So much easier to be a man in this profession.

I'm in private practice and pumped in the OR. Wearables were absolutely key (I had the Elvie Stride). I was not at all secretive about what I was doing, but between the noise of the OR and having the curtains up, I'm pretty sure most of my pumping sessions went unnoticed.

 

[Harpoon1]

A couple days is probably fine. Further beyond that it seems excessive unless unusual circumstances. I genuinely would find it hard to fathom if a colleague of mine took weeks off for a birth. I would not judge him, but normalizing that is just plain odd, even if its the fashionable thing these days.

Keeping your day to day work life with a proper family first balance is way more important in both the short and long term.

 

[kidthor]

A couple days is probably fine. Further beyond that it seems excessive unless unusual circumstances. I genuinely would find it hard to fathom if a colleague of mine took weeks off for a birth. I would not judge him, but normalizing that is just plain odd, even if its the fashionable thing these days.

Keeping your day to day work life with a proper family first balance is way more important in both the short and long term.

I’d want a colleague to take as long as they wanted to take off to bond with a newborn. I think it’s odd that we in the US normalize not taking time off from work be with a newborn baby. The rest of the modern world has figured a way to make this happen. UK gets 39-52 paid weeks. Sweden gets 68. But they have silly things like universal healthcare too….

 

[propofabulous]

A couple days is probably fine. Further beyond that it seems excessive unless unusual circumstances. I genuinely would find it hard to fathom if a colleague of mine took weeks off for a birth. I would not judge him, but normalizing that is just plain odd, even if its the fashionable thing these days.

Keeping your day to day work life with a proper family first balance is way more important in both the short and long term.

Funnily enough, it is similarly hard for me to fathom there are those who do not take any time at all off after a birth. The time off is not necessarily to just bond with the newborn but rather to support the mother who has just gone through the difficult process of pregnancy and labor, and who without you is left immediately with the full burden of baby's care. I too would not judge those who do not take time off, but everyone's situation and perspective is different.

 

[Beeftenderloin]

A couple days is probably fine. Further beyond that it seems excessive unless unusual circumstances. I genuinely would find it hard to fathom if a colleague of mine took weeks off for a birth. I would not judge him, but normalizing that is just plain odd, even if its the fashionable thing these days.

Keeping your day to day work life with a proper family first balance is way more important in both the short and long term.

This take seems wild. It’s not even necessarily about bonding with baby. I didn’t feel any real attachment toward them until they were almost 6 months old. It was far more about being available to help my wife, who had just labored for 36 hrs, then had major intra-abdominal surgery where she lost a quarter of her circulating blood volume, recover from that endeavor, which anyone who has gone through it will tell you, takes more than a couple of days.

 

[Harpoon1]

Funnily enough, it is similarly hard for me to fathom there are those who do not take any time at all off after a birth. The time off is not necessarily to just bond with the newborn but rather to support the mother who has just gone through the difficult process of pregnancy and labor, and who without you is left immediately with the full burden of baby's care. I too would not judge those who do not take time off, but everyone's situation and perspective is different.

No doubt there are more difficult recoveries depending on the delivery, in which case clearly the mother would require more help. I suppose my struggle is with some sort of default multi week period being the "norm" for everyone, but I definitely agree with you on those points. Certainly with this type of question, it definitely depends. The realities of having a reliable source of help, whether the father vs a family member or a damn good and reliable nanny, would probably dictate much.

 

[nimbus]

This is ironic for a nation of family values. Depending on your perspective, we are either #1 or DFL.

Among 41 countries, only U.S. lacks paid parental leave

Despite parents' shifting responsibilities, the U.S. is the only one of 41 nations that does not mandate any paid leave for new parents.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[ambiturner]

This is ironic for a nation of family values. Depending on your perspective, we are either #1 or DFL.

Among 41 countries, only U.S. lacks paid parental leave

Despite parents' shifting responsibilities, the U.S. is the only one of 41 nations that does not mandate any paid leave for new parents.

www.pewresearch.org

View attachment 377674

There are some notable omissions on this list. China? India? Indonesia? Brazil? Russia? Along with the US I believe those are the most populous countries on earth. Also not surprisingly, the countries near the top are struggling with depopulation, something that is being mitigated here with immigration. So a little bit of cherry picking here.

Generous parental leave in the US seems to be just one more thing that is concentrated in the ‘haves’ that spent Covid watching Netflix at home. Makes you wonder how necessary a lot of those jobs are.

 

[circleK]

Big difference is between private practice and employed. When PP we didn’t have specific leave (you just switched your vaca weeks around) bc the group has to cover for you in your absence and the hospital admin isn’t gonna care if you had a baby and knock an anesthetizing site down.

When employed there is specific guaranteed leave. Again the group just has to cover, but since it was the hospital itself that granted the leave they have to be more lenient of the group being short a member during said leave.

 

[patriot6]

1st kid (medical school): research block, which was basically work from home
2nd - 4th kids (residency): 5 days each (ACGME)
5th kid (job1): 5 days (PP)
6th kid (job2): 4 weeks (employed)

 

[nimbus]

There are some notable omissions on this list. China? India? Indonesia? Brazil? Russia? Along with the US I believe those are the most populous countries on earth. Also not surprisingly, the countries near the top are struggling with depopulation, something that is being mitigated here with immigration. So a little bit of cherry picking here.

Generous parental leave in the US seems to be just one more thing that is concentrated in the ‘haves’ that spent Covid watching Netflix at home. Makes you wonder how necessary a lot of those jobs are.

Looked it up. We’re still last although a few progressive states are beginning to require paid maternal leave.

Maternity Leave and Payment: Mainland China and Hong Kong

We list the respective maternity leave and payment rules in mainland China (Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou, Beijing) and Hong Kong.

www.china-briefing.com

https://www.leavenetwork.org/fileadmin/user_upload/k_leavenetwork/country_notes/2018/FINAL.Russia2018.pdf

Maternity Leave Policy in India 2023: Eligibility, Benefits & Rules

Maternity Leave Policy: As per Indian Maternity Benefit Act of 1961 new mothers are entitled to take 6 months or 26 weeks of paid leave for their first 2 children. Click to know more.<br>

www.icicilombard.com

Employee Leave Entitlement in Brazil | Boundless EOR

A guide to holiday and all other paid and non-paid employee leave in Brazil

boundlesshq.com

It is time for Indonesia to invest in care leave and services

Investing in care leave and services improves women's participation in the workforce and ensures quality childcare. The ILO promotes transformative care work policies through social dialogues.

www.ilo.org

Maternity Leave Laws by State

Employees are eligible for maternity leave before and after the birth of a child. See the laws in your state here.

www.paycor.com

 

[dabears505]

1st kid (medical school): research block, which was basically work from home
2nd - 4th kids: 5 days (ACGME)
5th kid: 5 days (PP)
6th kid: 4 weeks (employed)

You had 4 kids during residency/fellowship?

 

[patriot6]

You had 4 kids during residency/fellowship?

three

 

[GaseousClay]

took 5 days of "vacation"

 

[2Fast2Des]

If big tech jobs in America are offering weeks off for paternity time, and European countries offer months, it's a sad state in US healthcare that it is looked down upon to take paternity time. Taking time off is not as much to take care of the baby, but to be present for your partner, as well. I did not have much time off except a few days, but I did, and still do as much diaper changes as I can and in addition to just being as helpful as possible to a wife who is in pain/exhausted. Even the fact that women have only 6 weeks before having to go back to work is still nuts in my book. Putting that tiny baby in daycare or in someone else's hands hoping for the best is very hard. My wife took off 6 months for maternity and she still felt that wasn't enough because of wanting to take care and keep bonding with our baby. Can't imagine though having other kids(s) and a newborn though with no spousal support though, sounds like a nightmare for the mom!

6 weeks just seems tragic!

 

[dchz]

I think both sides of the views are too rigid. Not examining the whole picture.

If you have 3 in laws able and willing to help in your house, who would really blame you if you barely take any time off?

If you have no family help and you already have kids, who could blame you if you took some time off to help your wife?

I think I will default to two weeks off. In addition, I'm hiring a 24/7 nanny for 2 months. And any adjustments I do is to make sure my family stays happy. Not to brag on an Internet forum.

 

[PpfSuxTube]

A couple days is probably fine. Further beyond that it seems excessive unless unusual circumstances. I genuinely would find it hard to fathom if a colleague of mine took weeks off for a birth. I would not judge him, but normalizing that is just plain odd, even if its the fashionable thing these days.

Keeping your day to day work life with a proper family first balance is way more important in both the short and long term.

I'm sure your exhausted wife loves you taking off.
What is "proper family first balance" when you're at work? Don't you mean family last...

 

[nimbus]

I think both sides of the views are too rigid. Not examining the whole picture.

If you have 3 in laws able and willing to help in your house, who would really blame you if you barely take any time off?

If you have no family help and you already have kids, who could blame you if you took some time off to help your wife?

I think I will default to two weeks off. In addition, I'm hiring a 24/7 nanny for 2 months. And any adjustments I do is to make sure my family stays happy. Not to brag on an Internet forum.

But you know it’s time to go back to work when you get sick of the in-laws.