DailyKos: Doctors should share in the sacrifice

[pancakesyrup]

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This blog post is obviously asinine, but the comments are a lot more sensible than I expected from far-left progressives.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/29/980287/-Doctors-should-share-in-the-sacrifice

 

[willen101383]

This blog post is obviously asinine, but the comments are a lot more sensible than I expected from far-left progressives.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/29/980287/-Doctors-should-share-in-the-sacrifice

As soon as I saw "doctors make too much money" I had to stop reading...sorry.

Dumbest statement EVER.

The comparison to nurses doing "the lions share" and "only" making 65k just reinforces that the writer is a complete ***** with no idea of what goes into the making of a competent physician.

 

[patel2]

This blog post is obviously asinine, but the comments are a lot more sensible than I expected from far-left progressives.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/29/980287/-Doctors-should-share-in-the-sacrifice

Source: Daily Kos

Status: Argument Invalid

daily kos is like a caricature of the left

 

[gatorman23]

As soon as I saw "doctors make too much money" I had to stop reading...sorry.

Dumbest statement EVER.

The comparison to nurses doing "the lions share" and "only" making 65k just reinforces that the writer is a complete ***** with no idea of what goes into the making of a competent physician.

As soon as I read the first sentence... "Whenever there is a debate about making cuts to education, both parties zero right in on teachers."

I am a teacher in a budget cutting state (NC), and this is not analogous to the health field. We try to save teaching jobs to make sure all students get taught in smaller classrooms, not try to cut the teacher's and reduce pay so they "share in the sacrifice." When teacher's have reduced pay, job security, and benefits, teaching quality goes down and kids are under-educated. How is this good? Why would it be good to do this to doctors?

What is this garbage?

 

[willen101383]

As soon as I read the first sentence... "Whenever there is a debate about making cuts to education, both parties zero right in on teachers."

I am a teacher in a budget cutting state (NC), and this is not analogous to the health field. We try to save teaching jobs to make sure all students get taught in smaller classrooms, not try to cut the teacher's and reduce pay so they "share in the sacrifice." When teacher's have reduced pay, job security, and benefits, teaching quality goes down and kids are under-educated. How is this good? Why would it be good to do this to doctors?

What is this garbage?

So idiotic. This country is so F'd up. I dont even want to get into it because I am sure I will offend the **** out of some people. Libertarian party FTW

 

[DrBowtie]

We already share in the sacrifice. Its called marginal tax rate.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

dude i'm pretty left leaning and even i don't read the dailykos

 

[Slack3r]

LOL this makes my brain hurt.

Btw, US healthcare spending is $2.26 trillion. We have approximately 660k practicing physicians, with an average salary of $250k, equating to $168 billion in salaries for the entire physician workforce. If every doctor tomorrow decided to work for free, we'd save a whopping 7.5% of healthcare spending.

 

[bravofleet4]

comparing the pay between European doctors and US doctors is always like comparing apples to oranges. There's just so many differences between our healthcare systems that aren't accounted for (least of all the amt of debt medical students take in).

Simply asking doctors to take cuts won't result in any significant change considering doctors only take up 10% of the healthcare budget. Even if you asked them to work for free that would only keep healthcare costs down for 1-2 years before catching up again since healthcare costs grow at a rate in the high single digits every year.

Of course, changing the incentives from quantity to quality would help, and make a difference (which as a result might reduce specialist's pay). The article speaks briefly about this but this is where the focus should be.

 

[AntiHouseMD]

What isn't taken into account is how much it costs to enter medical school and the other various costs of a medical career. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think I may actually vote for Ron Paul. Besides, the guy has an M.D. degree (shocked when I read it).

 

[lpmarcus010]

What isn't taken into account is how much it costs to enter medical school and the other various costs of a medical career. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think I may actually vote for Ron Paul. Besides, the guy has an M.D. degree (shocked when I read it).

Josef Mengele had an M.D. Don't vote for people based on their degrees. BTW, no one credible thinks that physician salaries are the problem anymore than credible scholars think that malpractice liabilities contribute to skyrocketing costs.

 

[shaggy alfresco]

LOL this makes my brain hurt.

Btw, US healthcare spending is $2.26 trillion. We have approximately 660k practicing physicians, with an average salary of $250k, equating to $168 billion in salaries for the entire physician workforce. If every doctor tomorrow decided to work for free, we'd save a whopping 7.5% of healthcare spending.

Err no. It's a lot more - like 30%+ - that goes to doctor's salary.

The $250k is take home pay after expenses (though before taxes). The bill to the insurance companies/government is a lot higher - as it would need to be considering overhead (e.g the receptionist, rent for the office, utilities, exam equipment, etc all comes out of the physician's slice).

I'm not agreeing with the article - I'm just pointing that out.

 

[AntiHouseMD]

Josef Mengele had an M.D. Don't vote for people based on their degrees. BTW, no one credible thinks that physician salaries are the problem anymore than credible scholars think that malpractice liabilities contribute to skyrocketing costs.

I would never vote for someone based solely on their degrees. I mentioned his MD more as a random fact. If I voted for someone because they were a doctor, I may also think vote for Dr. Phil 😱 (PhD instead of MD, but same idea).

 

[KTownGT]

What isn't taken into account is how much it costs to enter medical school and the other various costs of a medical career. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think I may actually vote for Ron Paul. Besides, the guy has an M.D. degree (shocked when I read it).

Ron Paul does not understand the functional definitions between theory in common vernacular and in the scientific context.

How's that for a doctor? 😉

EDIT: I voted for him last time, woohoo.

 

[Dr Love]

What isn't taken into account is how much it costs to enter medical school and the other various costs of a medical career. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think I may actually vote for Ron Paul. Besides, the guy has an M.D. degree (shocked when I read it).

Ron Paul may be the only Republican with an iota of common sense.

 

[lpmarcus010]

I would never vote for someone based solely on their degrees. I mentioned his MD more as a random fact. If I voted for someone because they were a doctor, I may also think vote for Dr. Phil 😱 (PhD instead of MD, but same idea).

Haha! That's funny, dude. How about that racist Dr. Laura. She has a doctorate in phys ed!

View attachment dr_laura.gif

 

[Astarael]

Err no. It's a lot more - like 30%+ - that goes to doctor's salary.

The $250k is take home pay after expenses (though before taxes). The bill to the insurance companies/government is a lot higher - as it would need to be considering overhead (e.g the receptionist, rent for the office, utilities, exam equipment, etc all comes out of the physician's slice).

I'm not agreeing with the article - I'm just pointing that out.

How does this make Slacker's statement wrong? You can't remove overhead (I mean, you can to a small extent, but probably not enough to make a huge difference), so any reductions in compensation are going to be passed straight to the doctor's take home pay.

Also, if we're talking about a privately held practice, then the physician pays him/herself a salary from the total income they make. Billing the insurance company provides revenue for the practice, a part of which then goes to the doctor's salary. The doctor doesn't pay overhead from their salary, they pay it from the practice's revenue. So I'm not sure where your disagreement is coming from.

 

[shaggy alfresco]

How does this make Slacker's statement wrong? You can't remove overhead (I mean, you can to a small extent, but probably not enough to make a huge difference), so any reductions in compensation are going to be passed straight to the doctor's take home pay.

Also, if we're talking about a privately held practice, then the physician pays him/herself a salary from the total income they make. Billing the insurance company provides revenue for the practice, a part of which then goes to the doctor's salary. So I'm not sure where your disagreement is coming from.

The disagreement was only with the numbers that were given - that payment to physicians is ~7.5% of the healthcare spending. It's a vastly bigger piece of the pie.

 

[Astarael]

The disagreement was only with the numbers that were given - that payment to physicians is ~7.5% of the healthcare spending. It's a vastly bigger piece of the pie.

Ok, but he didn't say "Payment to physicians," he said, "salary." Salary and take home pay are the same thing. Payment to the physician would be the revenue that the physician brings to the practice.

 

[Long Way to Go]

Ron Paul may be the only Republican with an iota of common sense.

You mean the person who supports removing all federal funding for education, doesn't believe in evolution, doesn't think America should have separation of Church and State, wants to abolish the FDA and EPA, wants to overturn Roe v. Wade, and doesn't believe in global warming? And you think he has common sense?

Sorry for the the thread hijack. Perhaps this could be split out?

 

[pancakesyrup]

You mean the person who supports removing all federal funding for education, doesn't believe in evolution, doesn't think America should have separation of Church and State, wants to abolish the FDA and EPA, wants to overturn Roe v. Wade, and doesn't believe in global warming? And you think he has common sense?

Sorry for the the thread hijack. Perhaps this could be split out?

Abolishing the FDA might not be a bad idea if we want lower prescription drug prices.

And Ron Paul has a lot of common sense ideas, like letting doctors deduct uncompensated emergency care from taxes, or supporting medical savings accounts along with catastrophic health insurance (which would only pay for serious medical problems rather than routine care). There are other ideas as well.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Abolishing the FDA might not be a bad idea if we want lower prescription drug prices.

maybe, but it might be a bad idea if you prefer not to go back to the days when there was cocaine in your soda and paint thinner in your ketchup.

 

[AntiHouseMD]

The FDA is needed to prevent any abuses by pharmaceutical companies, regardless of how effective they are. Without government oversight, what's to say a company won't simply get a product out to market without proper testing? I agree with lessening the federal debt, but I can't side with removing oversight agencies and adopting a "laissez-faire" policy.

 

[Slack3r]

Without government oversight, what's to say a company won't simply get a product out to market without proper testing?

Ever hear of diet pills?

Err no. It's a lot more - like 30%+ - that goes to doctor's salary.

Err no. Salary =/= revenue. Taking the physicians salary out of the equation was basically what the article was suggesting, albeit less extreme than my example. Staff salaries, building rent, supplies, etc. cannot be reduced by having the physician "share in the sacrifice", unless you want everyone else involved to tighten their belts as well.

 

[getdown]

Haha! That's funny, dude. How about that racist Dr. Laura. She has a doctorate in phys ed!

View attachment 17052

oh come on, you know she be nibblin on that dark chocolate now and then

 

[circulus vitios]

TheDailyKos is a dumping ground for delusional liberal ******s. The Fox News of the left wing.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

TheDailyKos is a dumping ground for delusional liberal ******s. The Fox News of the left wing.

probably worse, given that blogs don't have any kind of checks

 

[AntiHouseMD]

Ever hear of diet pills?

True, but at least they are required to show that the drug wasn't approved by the FDA. Without that, how do you know what's been checked and not?

 

[KTownGT]

maybe, but it might be a bad idea if you prefer not to go back to the days when there was cocaine in your soda...

Sounds great actually...

 

[Pseudopseudonym]

The disagreement was only with the numbers that were given - that payment to physicians is ~7.5% of the healthcare spending. It's a vastly bigger piece of the pie.

This makes no sense. If you're argument is correct, then why aren't we also saying that the nurses, secretaries and people who clean the bathrooms at night that account for that overhead are also making too much?

 

[cbrons]

Source: Daily Kos

Status: Argument Invalid

right you are... I'm beginning to like your posts more and more...

 

[235788]

LOL this makes my brain hurt.

Btw, US healthcare spending is $2.26 trillion. We have approximately 660k practicing physicians, with an average salary of $250k, equating to $168 billion in salaries for the entire physician workforce. If every doctor tomorrow decided to work for free, we'd save a whopping 7.5% of healthcare spending.

👍👍👍

 

[TheRach1025]

I'm one of those far-left progressives. If you want to get a well-researched progressive perspective on health-care economics you should read The Incidental Economist blog. Daily Kos simply has too many contributors to keep its info reliable.

The doctors who get paid too much exist but they are too few to really contribute to our overspending. Getting end-of-life spending under control is the sine qua non. Trying to do anything about that, though, just gets screams of "Death Panels!!!" from the right.

And really, Ron Paul?!? This guy worships Jesus and Ayn Rand at the same time. He wants to abolish Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, the Civil Rights Act, and public education. I'll give him this, though. He does want to cut the defense budget, pull out of the wars we're in, and is against all of the civil liberty abuses of the Bush/Obama admins. He's also one of the most honest members of Congress. Honest about insane ideas but honest, nonetheless.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

"A 2006 study by the Congressional Research Service compared the pay of doctors by adjusting for purchasing power of the local currency and found that American medical specialists are paid an adjusted average of $230,000 a year. General practitioners? $161,000. Nurses, who actually do the lion's share of the real work? $56,000. In Germany, specialists make an average of $77,000. In The UK, $151,000. In Canada, $161,000."



Yes, becuase the cost of becoming a physician and the cost of living between Germany and the United States are comparable 🙄



Also, construction workers do the lion's share of construction, so I think it's fair to say they should be compensated more than civil engineers and architects

 

[45408]

Whenever there is a debate about making cuts to education, both parties zero right in on teachers.

Wrong. People zero in on all sorts of things, like bloated sports budgets, arts/theater, fancy computers, bus routes, blah blah blah. He only hears what he wants to.

Nurses, who actually do the lion's share of the real work? $56,000. In Germany, specialists make an average of $77,000. In The UK, $151,000. In Canada, $161,000.

Sure thing, bud. If they do the lion's share of the work, why do nurses have shorter work weeks?

The doctors, of course, blame the medical device companies and the pharmaceutical companies. All of them both blame government, of course. The truth is there is plenty of blame to go around. But the one group that seems to keep escaping accountability is doctors.

Two words: Medicare cuts. This guy has no idea what he's talking about. A CABG pays less now than it did in the late 80s, AFAIK.


This comment was a gem:

Many of the doctors breeze in and out, spend a few minutes talking, then wander off to write orders or 'answer phone calls'.

Right, because writing orders and answering phone calls (from patients, insurance companies, consulting specialists, etc) is effortless. There's nothing to it.

 

[Monocles]

Dang, never knew there was so much hate for liberals on SDN. 😱

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Dang, never knew there was so much hate for liberals on SDN. 😱

There isn't. However, as a liberal, Daily Kos is our version of Fox News, as others have said.

Incidentally, "kos" in Farsi is slang for genitalia, so I could never take them seriously to begin with.

 

[pancakesyrup]

A CABG pays less now than it did in the late 80s, AFAIK.

Which is partly why cardiothoracic surgery is not quite the glamorous field that it was 25 years ago.

 

[patel2]

.

 

[Wolfman89]

There isn't. However, as a liberal, Daily Kos is our version of Fox News, as others have said.

Exactomundo, which why us reasonable liberals have to step in and make our voices heard, lest people begin to believe that all liberals agree with Daily Kos.

 

[FIREitUP]

There isn't. However, as a liberal, Daily Kos is our version of Fox News, as others have said.

Incidentally, "kos" in Farsi is slang for genitalia, so I could never take them seriously to begin with.

lol awesome

 

[Shakespeare37]

There isn't. However, as a liberal, Daily Kos is our version of Fox News, as others have said.

Incidentally, "kos" in Farsi is slang for genitalia, so I could never take them seriously to begin with.

HA! Same in arabic, though I hadn't thought of it in years.

Not that this rant from a yahoo who clearly hasn't thought about what s/he is actually writing needs anything else to make it ludicrous, but still. LMFAO.

 

[Suncrusher]

I'm signed up to receive emails from a different daily genitalia website

 

[Parts Unknown]

We already share in the sacrifice. Its called marginal tax rate.

You need a better accountant.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

HA! Same in arabic, though I hadn't thought of it in years.

Not that this rant from a yahoo who clearly hasn't thought about what s/he is actually writing needs anything else to make it ludicrous, but still. LMFAO.

I had no idea I thought it was just Farsi. Better watch my mouth around my Arab friends then 😳

I'm signed up to receive emails from a different daily genitalia website

For science.

 

[Suncrusher]

For science.

um...yes. of course.

 

[Slack3r]

Dang, never knew there was so much hate for liberals on SDN. 😱

Not so much hate for liberals as it is hate for *****s. Painting liberals with the broad brush the Daily Kos is akin to painting conservatives as Glen Beck fans. Generalizations can be dangerous, folks. 😉

 

[raltima07]

The disagreement was only with the numbers that were given - that payment to physicians is ~7.5% of the healthcare spending. It's a vastly bigger piece of the pie.

I did not know that!