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RadOncMegatron

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The Ethical Imperative and Evidence-Based Strategies to Ensure Equity and Diversity in Radiation Oncology

http://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(17)30813-1/fulltext

A telling statement in the article is as follows:

“Unfortunately, evidence abounds to suggest that “objective metrics,” including test scores and grades for trainee-level candidates and publication records and grant funding amounts for faculty candidates, are often themselves vulnerable to bias…”

If we can't use those criteria to choose candidates then what shall we use?

Dare you to reply!

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This may be ill timed: I really dont see radiation being all that competitive for much longer (given the job market) such that the ideal future candidate will be anybody who walks through the door and is willing to pimp protons.
 
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I mean it sucks that women aren't taken as seriously in the pipeline prior to medical school, but what do they want the field of Radiation Oncology to do about that? If you are somebody who mentor pre-meds, or even medical students, you should mentor males and females equally.

I think there's some cognitive biases on the part of the authors here though - Sure, 50% of medical school applicants are female, but what percentage of Rad Onc applicants are female? Are females being discriminated against in the interview process? What are the match rates of males vs females based on percentage match?

My school graduated more female pediatric residents than male pediatric residents. Ditto for OB-Gyn. Don't see the concern of "lack of diversity" there.

I think the cases mentioned in the article would be unfortunate if true and hopefully not the over-arching thought process for those still in power (although it likely is, and THAT is truly unfortunate).

To not consider a female for chairperson of a department because you assume that she won't be dedicated to the role because she's a woman is wrong.
 
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Was this article sponsored by a grant from Weinstein Co? Yeah, yeah, change "objective" measures because people can't hang. That being said, there are plenty of women who can meet objective measures to be competitive in Rad Onc...I'm guessing a lot of them are in derm.
 
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Dont want to get my head bitten off, but anecdotally- white males dont seem to be the majority of residents that I am coming across- even more true in physics. (it suits the agenda of the authors to lump asians and indians with white males as . "priveleged")I would say based objectively on skin pigmentation, we are a diverse group.
For much of residency, I was the only white male physician in the department, although luckily I didnt feel marginalized.

There also seem to be a lot of prominent women in the field. Recently,I was thinking how Formenti, the chair at NYH, has made more of a contribution to the field than any other chair with her work on the immune system and radiation.
yes, there are a few instituitions where maybe being a tall white male with a charasmatic,.dominating, self promoting personality gives you and advantage to be chair ( and i supsect thats where this is coming from) but for the most part, I dont see diversity as problem for our field.
 
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Dont want to get my head bitten off, but anecdotally- white males dont seem to be the majority of residents that I am coming across- even more true in physics. (it suits the agenda of the authors to lump asians and indians with white males as . "priveleged")I would say based objectively on skin pigmentation, we are a diverse group.
For much of residency, I was the only white male physician in the department, although luckily I didnt feel marginalized.

There also seem to be a lot of prominent women in the field. Recently,I was thinking how Formenti, the chair at NYH, has made more of a contribution to the field than any other chair with her work on the immune system and radiation.
yes, there are a few instituitions where maybe being a tall white male with a charasmatic,.dominating, self promoting personality gives you and advantage to be chair ( and i supsect thats where this is coming from) but for the most part, I dont see diversity as problem for our field.

My old residency program has a female chair and out of 14 faculty members literally one is a white Christian male (the remainder are women, Asian/Indian, or Jewish)
 
Chairs at Harvard Stanford Cornell don't seem to be going to white males? Again, timing of this editorial is bizarre.
And MD anderson now as well
 
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ASCO Releases Strategic Plan to Increase Racial and Ethnic Diversity in Oncology Workforce

ASCO Releases Strategic Plan to Increase Racial and Ethnic Diversity in Oncology Workforce

Unfortunately, it may be too late...

I have been watching these developments for a long time and it may be too late. One of our own (radiation oncologist) wrote this paper:
American Society of Clinical Oncology Strategic Plan for Increasing Racial and Ethnic Diversity in the Oncology Workforce http://ascopubs.org/doi/pdfdirect/10.1200/JCO.2017.73.1372

Another article JCO titled "The Effects of Oncologist Implicit Racial Bias in Racially Discordant Oncology Interactions" that the above article quotes (http://ascopubs.org/doi/pdfdirect/10.1200/JCO.2015.66.3658) has this in the "Results" section of the abstract:

"As predicted, oncologists higher in implicit racial bias had shorter interactions, and patients and observers rated these oncologists’ communication as less patient-centered and supportive. Higher implicit bias also was associated with more patient difficulty remembering contents of the interaction. In addition, oncologist implicit bias indirectly predicted less patient confidence in recommended treatments, and greater perceived difficulty completing them, through its impact on oncologists’ communication (as rated by both patients and observers)."

With the conclusion ""Thus, implicit racial bias is a likely source of racial treatment disparities and must be addressed in oncology training and practice.""

Before I go into all the philosophy behind this all (which I will put my neck out even further should this thread continue and since physician's do not have much exposure to this stuff) much of these ideas are based off the Implicit Association Test (IAT) by Banaji and Greenwald, who themselves say that it should not be used as an individual diagnostic test and has a test-retest reliability of only r=0.55 (Psychology’s Favorite Tool for Measuring Racism Isn’t Up to the Job).

My advice to everyone is to never ever take an IAT test, let alone give your employer a copy of your unconscious biases! These are not conscious biases where you can change your behavior... these are located in your unconscious (luckily the test is bogus). This is the situation in 1984 where O'Brien shows 4 fingers and asks Winston to see 5 - the unconscious won't allow it (at least for a while). If you think I am being paranoid, my work's diversity office has offered a voluntary session to discuss our IAT results and I wouldn't put it passed other places to make it mandatory. Prof. Jordan Peterson, psychologist at the Univ. of Toronto has an excellent critique of the IAT here

Stayed tuned...
 
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It is very ironic that the authors of this paper use "objective metrics" such as the IAT (which as pointed out above has its own issues) to argue that other "objective metrics" are nonsense.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
 
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Dont want to get my head bitten off, but anecdotally- white males dont seem to be the majority of residents that I am coming across- even more true in physics. (it suits the agenda of the authors to lump asians and indians with white males as . "priveleged")I would say based objectively on skin pigmentation, we are a diverse group.
For much of residency, I was the only white male physician in the department, although luckily I didnt feel marginalized.

There also seem to be a lot of prominent women in the field. Recently,I was thinking how Formenti, the chair at NYH, has made more of a contribution to the field than any other chair with her work on the immune system and radiation.
yes, there are a few instituitions where maybe being a tall white male with a charasmatic,.dominating, self promoting personality gives you and advantage to be chair ( and i supsect thats where this is coming from) but for the most part, I dont see diversity as problem for our field.

Racial diversity excludes Asians (including Indians), didn't ya know? It means lack of African-American, Hispanic, and maybe Native-American.

As I imagine most of this board falls into the male, white or asian, group (just based on statistics) we all need to check our privilege (lol). Is the next step affirmative action in Rad Onc residency for those under-represented within the general Rad Onc population?

/sarcasm for anybody who was going to respond seriously to the above post.
 
/sarcasm for anybody who was going to respond seriously to the above post.
Fwiw, some Asians feel discriminated and empowered enough to do something it about it lol, esp under the current administration

Affirmative Action Battle Has a New Focus: Asian-Americans

DOJ Looks Into Whether Harvard Discriminates Against Asian-Americans

The Uncomfortable Truth About Affirmative Action and Asian-Americans

Since the nineties, the share of Asians in Harvard’s freshman class has remained stable, while the percentage of Asians in the U.S. population has more than doubled.
 
Racial diversity excludes Asians (including Indians), didn't ya know? It means lack of African-American, Hispanic, and maybe Native-American.

As I imagine most of this board falls into the male, white or asian, group (just based on statistics) we all need to check our privilege (lol). Is the next step affirmative action in Rad Onc residency for those under-represented within the general Rad Onc population?

/sarcasm for anybody who was going to respond seriously to the above post.

Asian success is the dirty little secret you're not supposed to talk about. Of course, instead of celebrating the fact that Asians are now per capita MORE successful than Whites in the US, score higher on all standardized tests, etc. the current deflection is to argue that white racism keeps them from being more successful at the very top or that it's only a "lessening" of white racism that has allowed them to prosper. (The real secret to Asian American success was not education). That being said, Asians no longer count towards diversity...especially the Asian males colluding with white males to shut women and minorities out of engineering jobs, silicon valley, etc.
 
Women are overall under-represented in radiation oncology. However, African Americans and Hispanics are far more under-represented than Women are. Multiple PDs openly talked about "wanting more women" in their program. What about the other groups?
When I was interviewing I saw a good amount of women, men, of mostly white anglosaxon, indian/paki, asian origin.
 
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Whenever we see "equity" red flags should go up as this is based on neo-Marxism's philosophy of history (as opposed to economic theory). Classic Marxism saw history as a struggle between classes: The oppressor (the bourgeoisie / land owners / those who have the means of production) vs the oppressed (proletariat / working class). After the Khrushchev report in 1956 detailing the massacre and torture under Stalin, the intellectual elite were forced to drop classical Marxism. Unfortunately, it was simply reborn as neo-Marxism. This time the new oppressor class is now the cis-gendered heterosexual white Christian male and the new oppressed class are the identity based minority groups (women, racial minorities, etc.).

As many of you have touched on that is why no one is fighting for more men in nursing, more white or Asians anywhere (where they are underrepresented - Sports, Harvard, etc.), equity of men in OB/GYN, etc. because in this ideology the oppressor class is evil and does not need to be supported. Do you see the authors I quoted lamenting that our dosimetrists and radiation therapists are predominately women and that male patients would feel more comfortable if there were more men? No! This is due to their commitment to this odious ideology. We need to call it out when we see it.

Now, I think that if there is systemic oppression against women and minority groups, then that should be called out, but more than likely there is no systemic oppression in medicine and women and men gravitate to the fields they want to naturally do (OB and ortho, respectively). Having diversity simply based on minority groups has no real value. Why not diversity of thought? Why not diversity of political commitments? Why are they picking diversity based on minority groups - simply put due to their neo-Marxist ideology.

Let me just simply restate what the author's themselves say:

“Unfortunately, evidence abounds to suggest that “objective metrics,” including test scores and grades for trainee-level candidates and publication records and grant funding amounts for faculty candidates, are often themselves vulnerable to bias…”

Again, if we can't use those criteria to choose candidates then what shall we use?
 
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I prefer to read about a neo-marxist conspiracy to oppress the WASP on my daily review of the Breitbart comment section. You're really messing up my routine.

Minorities are not the "new" oppressed class. They have been the oppressed class for some time. Wanting diversity is not an "odious ideology". It is simply a commitment to the reality that this makes our specialty and the profession of medicine better. People do not exist in a vacuum separated from the economic, political, social, historical forces which affect them, and yes in some cases do oppress them. There is a a strong component of self to success but there is also a component of environment and opportunity. We need people in all specialties from all backgrounds. It's naive to ignore that there are people with connections (family, economic, etc) which played an important part in their success. Maybe you got into Harvard, then Harvard medschool took you and then Harvard rad onc decided to take you along with all other 6 of your classmates. Maybe your family member was in the field and you got opportunities that not everyone had. Life isn't fair and we can't eliminate some of these things. I can tell you I have learned a lot from my colleagues of different backgrounds and very much like having them around me, and yes this even includes the privileged bourgeois ones.
 
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I prefer to read about a neo-marxist conspiracy to oppress the WASP on my daily review of the Breitbart comment section. You're really messing up my routine.

Minorities are not the "new" oppressed class. They have been the oppressed class for some time. Wanting diversity is not an "odious ideology". It is simply a commitment to the reality that this makes our specialty and the profession of medicine better. People do not exist in a vacuum separated from the economic, political, social, historical forces which affect them, and yes in some cases do oppress them. There is a a strong component of self to success but there is also a component of environment and opportunity. We need people in all specialties from all backgrounds. It's naive to ignore that there are people with connections (family, economic, etc) which played an important part in their success. Maybe you got into Harvard, then Harvard medschool took you and then Harvard rad onc decided to take you along with all other 6 of your classmates. Maybe your family member was in the field and you got opportunities that not everyone had. Life isn't fair and we can't eliminate some of these things. I can tell you I have learned a lot from my colleagues of different backgrounds and very much like having them around me, and yes this even includes the privileged bourgeois ones.

I apologize for sounding like the "breitbart comments section" and believe me I get it with all that is going on politically in our country. I will be the first to apologize sounding like that carbonionangle. Let me be clear, I do not say minorities are some "new" oppressed class. The privileged have always abused their power across all societies. I am saying that the neo-Marxism hides behind "equity" but does not really want equity as in my example for dosimetrists and therapists who are predominantly women. The reason I am calling this out is that they want to disregard objective metrics such as grades, tests scores, etc. BTW It is still not clear from your comments that the articles I cited do not lean toward neo-Marxism. They want diversity of certain kinds based on race and gender why? It is their underlying ideology. Simply to want a fair playing table and recognizing disadvantages of minorities is not what I am denying. Really read what the articles I said are saying - please! I don't actually disagree with anything you say, but the angle they are taking is that all objective metrics are tainted bias towards WASPs. This is terrible thinking. Do you really believe that? One of the paper's I cited above says this: "Greater understanding of how oncologist implicit bias affects the quality of care received by black patients with cancer may enable researchers to identify which of many proposed interventions may hold the greatest promise for the critical task of reducing the impact of implicit racial bias on racial disparities in cancer treatment." Don't tell me you treat races different than yourself differently because of your "implicit biases." I bet you don't! They are accusing us of something that we should not stand for! Do minority groups not get the same level of care as the privileged? Of course not, but to blame the unconscious bias of oncologists and that our field is systematically oppressing underrepresented groups is a very large claim that is not substantiated. They also think this is such a big problem in our field ie that there is so much unconscious bias against minorities that a special task force needs to be created. There is a large left vs right struggle in our society and my leanings or obvious, however, please look at what the articles (not what the larger societal arguments) are saying.
 
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Disequal outcome does not necessarily mean disequal opportunity. Similarly, equal outcome does not necessarily mean equal opportunity.
 
FWIW, this has been tagged to every UCSD job on ASTRO as a requirement for application.

"Statement of Contributions to diversity - Applicants should summarize their past or potential contributions to diversity."

Hell if I know what that means. But every day, I live my life as a unique individual with genetic makeup, thoughts, ideas, experiences, preferences, fears, strengths, weaknesses, gonads, and skin melanin content that all differ from literally everyone else on planet Earth. I wonder if that's what they are looking for?
 
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FWIW, this has been tagged to every UCSD job on ASTRO as a requirement for application.

"Statement of Contributions to diversity - Applicants should summarize their past or potential contributions to diversity."

Hell if I know what that means. But every day, I live my life as a unique individual with genetic makeup, thoughts, ideas, experiences, preferences, fears, strengths, weaknesses, gonads, and skin melanin content that all differ from literally everyone else on planet Earth. I wonder if that's what they are looking for?

Scary, but shrewd way of keeping any dissenters out.
 
Increasing Racial and Ethnic Diversity in the Oncology Workforce
A Conversation With Karen M. Winkfield, MD, PhD

Increasing Racial and Ethnic Diversity in the Oncology Workforce - The ASCO Post
October 10, 2017

In Dr. Winkfield's own words:

"Subsequent reports have shown that minority patients have a more favorable response to health-care providers if there is racial concordance. One area we would like to see improved is minority participation in clinical trials, because research is how we drive cancer care forward. We have to increase participation of minority patients in clinical trials, and one strategy to accomplish this is to improve workforce diversity. There is a sense of trust and a comfort level that patients may experience simply from having a provider who comes from a similar ethnic or racial background"

Also:
"Medicine tends to be pretty biased toward heterosexual couples, so we need increased sexual and gender minority cultural competency training for providers and increased outreach and educational support for sexual and gender minority patients to ensure higher quality cancer care for these patient populations."

I do think we need to be sensitive to the needs of all these minority groups, however, I am very wary of any "cultural competency training."

I am not sure what this means, but it sure seems to suggest if you have a someone who is not your gender or race that you should refer them out? If we take her words to be true, then those some statements must be applied to Dr. Winkfield herself! Does Dr. Winkfield refer out patient's that are not her race, gender, orientation so that those patient's feel more comfortable? Should I be looking for doctors who fit my gender, race, orientation, etc.?
 
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Increasing Racial and Ethnic Diversity in the Oncology Workforce
A Conversation With Karen M. Winkfield, MD, PhD

Increasing Racial and Ethnic Diversity in the Oncology Workforce - The ASCO Post
October 10, 2017

In Dr. Winkfield's own words:

"Subsequent reports have shown that minority patients have a more favorable response to health-care providers if there is racial concordance. One area we would like to see improved is minority participation in clinical trials, because research is how we drive cancer care forward. We have to increase participation of minority patients in clinical trials, and one strategy to accomplish this is to improve workforce diversity. There is a sense of trust and a comfort level that patients may experience simply from having a provider who comes from a similar ethnic or racial background"

Also:
"Medicine tends to be pretty biased toward heterosexual couples, so we need increased sexual and gender minority cultural competency training for providers and increased outreach and educational support for sexual and gender minority patients to ensure higher quality cancer care for these patient populations."

I do think we need to be sensitive to the needs of all these minority groups, however, I am very wary of any "cultural competency training."

I am not sure what this means, but it sure seems to suggest if you have a someone who is not your gender or race that you should refer them out? If we take her words to be true, then those some statements must be applied to Dr. Winkfield herself! Does Dr. Winkfield refer out patient's that are not her race, gender, orientation so that those patient's feel more comfortable? Should I be looking for doctors who fit my gender, race, orientation, etc.?

Not sure why this is surprising. People tend to relate more to people who have similar views, backgrounds, and culture. But diversity may help people overcome their biases to be more open-minded.

Are you one of those who believes in reverse discrimination?
 
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Not sure why this is surprising. People tend to relate more to people who have similar views, backgrounds, and culture. But diversity may help people overcome their biases to be more open-minded.

Are you one of those who believes in reverse discrimination?
Thanks for the cordial reply and question. I won't comment on reverse discrimination question since I want to be sure we mean the same thing.

I have absolutely no problem with diversity and believe it is a good thing and 100% agree with your statement about people from similar views, etc. relate to each other better.

However, to take a leap from the value of diversity and people feeling more comfortable with others like themselves and then attaching

1) Implicit/Unconscious racial/gender/etc. bias of actual oncologists getting in the way clinic care of patients
2) Tests scores, grades, publication records are tainted with bias
3) Teleological/Utilitarian/Consequential Ethic (please see Dr. Tepper's article in the same issue I first mentioned here where he rightfully champions a deontological ethic)
4) Require "competency training" (very Orwellian)

This is terrible...

Read closely the articles I have posted and also the citations they use to justify themselves. Dr. Winkfield is implicitly suggesting (if not explicitly) saying that minority groups are better served by doctors that are like them (I highly contest this) and so the remedy for this is to obtain diversity (but if she agrees with Dr. Jagsi and Chapman's article at the top of this post - they must be not be chosen based on merit b/c objective scores are biased - they explicitly say this) so that ultimately minority patients are seen by minority doctors. Why can't a white male (not me btw) serve a black female with the highest level of care? On the flip side, any man with prostate cancer would be stupid to not have Colleen Lawton, Deborah Kuban, or Juanita Crook as their physician just because they are female. Don't tell me those female physicians can't give the same level of care to me just b/c they are women. Do you think a asian female with breast cancer would not receive the same level of care from Benjamin Smith? Are you kidding me? I admit, some guys would feel more comfortable with a guy or woman with a woman, but the effect is negligible and not due to unconscious biases. There is a sleight of hand here of hiding behind the value diversity and the plight of the oppressed and conflating that with what they are actual pushing. I am even willing to say that these authors do not have bad motives, but rather they are locked into their own biases and cannot see what the real life effects of their plans are going to be (I refuse to take "competency training" on social issues by ASCO or ASTRO - what will be my consequences?).

This distracts majorly from what I believe are real issues as in the cost of medicine to the poor, access to care, access to clinical trials, etc.
 
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Picking up on the diversity training element. See the paper here.

Money sentence from abstract

"Despite advocates’ insistence that women on boards enhance corporate performance and that diversity
of task groups enhances their performance, research findings are mixed, and repeated meta-analyses have yielded average correlational findings that are null or extremely small."

Your reluctance to participate in this "training" can be justified.

The evidence of efficacy in lacking.
 
Listen to this nonsense: ASCO in Action Podcast Series Launches with Discussion on Ethnic and Racial Diversity in the Oncology Workforce

Dr. Hudis, a white male who specializes in breast cancer, tries to defend himself, but gives into to the idea that minorities/females are better served by other minorities/females. This begs the question if Dr. Hudis, as a male, if he cannot treat female patients as well, should refer his female patients to a female oncologist. Also, Dr. Winkfield who is an African American female, might as well admit that she cannot treat white men as well. She quotes articles (flawed articles based on IAT - see above) that state that minorities feel better when they are seen by their own race. Doesn't that imply white people feel more comfortable with white people, so minorities shouldn't treat them? Are we really going to go there? Are we really at the point where I have to defend Dr. Winkfield in saying she can treat all ethnicities equally, but she is saying that she cannot treat other ethinicities equally? This is truly the twilight zone...

Alas, it may be too late: https://www.asco.org/sites/new-www....&et_rid=1829342265&linkid=summary+of+the+plan
 
Who funds ASTRO?

This is a very important question. All this talk of diversity and changing the goal-posts sounds like a precursor to reducing the standards of entry into the field once competition takes a nosedive. Programs will be ridiculed and maybe even legally challenged if they decide to not rank marginal FMG candidates. Methinks your FMG cohort will grow substantially in years to come.

I'm asking about funding because it seems similar to whats happening in path. The pathologist society, the CAP, is funded by lab corporations over the membership by a ratio of 50 to 1. The CAP talks about pathologist shortages ad nauseam despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Programs are expanded and incompetent FMGs are accepted into the profession in droves. A market oversupply benefits the lab corps in that they can hire cheap abundant labor, and harms the membership because they become the cheap abundant labor.
 
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I would hope no reasonable radiation oncologist would ever donate to ASTRO. I could not think of a bigger misuse of charity.
 
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Or put another way.... "Whoever said life was fair?"

If you're looking for sympathy, the only place you're going to find it is in the dictionary somewhere between "sh^t" and "syphilis."
 
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Inside joke?

This is in reference to Dr. Reshma Jagsi. She and Dr. Winkfield are the main rad oncs responsible for driving this ship straight into the ground. They both have been ASCO chairs for ethics (Jagsi) or health disparities (Winkfield). I referenced her paper above on her very controversial ethical views http://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(17)30813-1/abstract. She is always invited to make commentary on social issues given her D. Phil in ethics (?) from Oxford. She has, what I consider, a fear mongering article reported in JAMA Oncology here: Caring for Patients in an Era of Political Anxiety , don't miss the erratum: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaoncology/fullarticle/2621991

She was also invited for NEJM on the whole #metoo thing (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1715962), for which I don't have much disagreement on.

In the podcast Dr. Winkfield was touting "diversity of thought" that is so obviously and completely absent from the ASCO diversity guidelines that it would funny, but unfortunately is actually very scary to see such smart individuals lack so much insight.
 
"ASTRO announces new Pipeline Protégé Program

ASTRO's Committee on Health Equity, Diversity and Inclusion recently launched the Pipeline Protégé Program, an inclusive career development program with the goal of increasing diversity among ASTRO's Councils and leadership.
The program has a one-year term that begins and ends at the ASTRO Annual Meeting. Applicants to the program must be Board-certified radiation oncologists or medical physicists, with at least five years of practice experience, and be ASTRO members. View full details and requirements for the program and apply by April 1."
 
"ASTRO announces new Pipeline Protégé Program

ASTRO's Committee on Health Equity, Diversity and Inclusion recently launched the Pipeline Protégé Program, an inclusive career development program with the goal of increasing diversity among ASTRO's Councils and leadership.
The program has a one-year term that begins and ends at the ASTRO Annual Meeting. Applicants to the program must be Board-certified radiation oncologists or medical physicists, with at least five years of practice experience, and be ASTRO members. View full details and requirements for the program and apply by April 1."

I think they forgot the most important requirement
 
"ASTRO announces new Pipeline Protégé Program

ASTRO's Committee on Health Equity, Diversity and Inclusion recently launched the Pipeline Protégé Program, an inclusive career development program with the goal of increasing diversity among ASTRO's Councils and leadership.
The program has a one-year term that begins and ends at the ASTRO Annual Meeting. Applicants to the program must be Board-certified radiation oncologists or medical physicists, with at least five years of practice experience, and be ASTRO members. View full details and requirements for the program and apply by April 1."

So we have like minded people (ASTRO committee), asking for someone like minded (applicant), to see how they can recruit more like minded people (ASTRO committee) just a different skin color, gender, etc.?

The self-selection and group think displayed here is outstanding...
 
YouTube Hiring for Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Men, Lawsuit Says
A former employee alleges tech firm set quotas for hiring minorities


https://www.wsj.com/articles/youtube-hiring-for-some-positions-excluded-white-and-asian-males-lawsuit-says-1519948013

This is exactly what I was warning about. The same fate will await oncology, per ASCO's own admission, if we let it happen. I know these are allegations, but do we even want this fight to happen in our clinics?

"The lawsuit, filed by Arne Wilberg, a white male who worked at Google for nine years, including four years as a recruiter at YouTube, alleges the division of Alphabet Inc.’s Google set quotas for hiring minorities. Last spring, YouTube recruiters were allegedly instructed to cancel interviews with applicants who weren’t female, black or Hispanic, and to “purge entirely” the applications of people who didn’t fit those categories, the lawsuit claims."
 
Hunting the Non-Minority Chairman - Let it begin!

Qualitative Assessment of Academic Radiation Oncology Department Chairs' Insights on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion: Progress, Challenges, and Future Aspirations

"Bias training should broach tokenism, blindness, and intersectionality." Of course, the authors of this biased article, will not need training, and come up with bias training. Intersectionality in medicine will bring the whole thing down...

One funny thing in the article is "One chair perceived that Asian Americans still appear to be underrepresented in positions of leadership despite being relatively well represented in the field of medicine overall." I doubt there will be a cry to help more Asians be chairs.

Also:

Does Gender Matter? A Look at the Facts About ASCO’s Annual Meeting

Listen, I applaud - APPLAUD, babysitting at ASCO. As a parent this is great! I have no problem with that and praise is due where praise is due. These kind of conversations should and need to happen.

But you can tell they really wanted to see disparity but did not:

"This appears to be good news overall. Both men and women registered for the meeting at generally similar rates, despite slightly fewer female early-career oncologists attending than male early-career oncologists (28.8% vs 33.2%). Interestingly, a slightly higher percentage of female members-in-training attended the meeting than their male counterparts (23.1% vs 20.7%)."

More worrisome however is the following:

"To allow for interventions seeking to promote equity and diversity [although they found equity they still need more data?] to be targeted appropriately, we need to continue to collect the data...In addition to gathering the data for meeting attendees and invited speakers, we recommend that ASCO begin to track abstract presenter data as well. "

Why not data on political or religious affiliation? Who is picking the end points? Who is watching the watchers?





 
"This appears to be good news overall. Both men and women registered for the meeting at generally similar rates, despite slightly fewer female early-career oncologists attending than male early-career oncologists (28.8% vs 33.2%). Interestingly, a slightly higher percentage of female members-in-training attended the meeting than their male counterparts (23.1% vs 20.7%)."

Not to comment on the rest of your post, but.... what could 5% of early-career female physicians be doing that their male counterparts are not? Maybe something that they put off until after residency, and would make them not want to take a long flight? Hmm..... mysterious.
 
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Women are Better than Men. I have been telling my wife that for years, but finally the NEJM supports me.

Lost Taussigs — The Consequences of Gender Discrimination in Medicine

"In terms of clinical care, recent research has shown lower 30-day mortality and 30-day readmissions for hospitalized elderly patients treated by female rather than male physicians. Similar positive effects on outcomes have been shown for patients treated by female surgeons as compared with male surgeons. Moreover, women physicians are more likely than their male counterparts to deliver guideline-concordant care"

"The de facto exclusion of women from certain medical fields also has consequences for the doctor–patient relationship, particularly in specialties that address sensitive topics. For example, female patients prefer female urologists, yet considerably fewer women than men pursue urologic practice. Female patients voice similar preferences for female over male gastrointestinal endoscopists. Perpetuating work environments, hierarchies, or mentoring structures that disadvantage women may mean that patients cannot get the care with which they’re most comfortable in certain medical fields."

"In the scientific arena, women researchers have, in some studies, been shown to produce publications of greater impact than those of men, and the quality of patents in the life sciences submitted by female inventors is equal to or higher than that of patents from male inventors"

This begs the question, if men are so sexist and have inferior outcomes, why would anyone want a male physician?

Women want to be treated by other women physicians and minorities are better served when treated by the same race (see above posts). I mean what could possibly go wrong with following the logical outcomes of this scenario? :thinking:

It's amazing the poor quality of the studies to support these assertions and the editors of the NEJM letting it pass. Here is the study about the 30 day mortality and readmission rates: Outcomes of Hospitalized Medicare Beneficiaries Treated by Male vs Female Physicians

I dare someone to contact ASTRO and/or ASCO to run a prospective randomized control trial of men vs women oncologists for breast and prostate cancer.
 
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I've heard of similar statistical analyses looking at how patient outcomes are worse on certain days of the week (Fri-Sat) or certain months of the year (June - NEW INTERNS!). Of course the logical conclusion one should draw is to simply eliminate Fridays/Saturdays from the weekly calendar and June from the monthly calendar - problem solved.

Since gender fluidity is a thing it seems to me that would be an easier solution to what RadOncMegatron posted.
 
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Women are Better than Men. I have been telling my wife that for years, but finally the NEJM supports me.

NEJM - Error

"In terms of clinical care, recent research has shown lower 30-day mortality and 30-day readmissions for hospitalized elderly patients treated by female rather than male physicians. Similar positive effects on outcomes have been shown for patients treated by female surgeons as compared with male surgeons. Moreover, women physicians are more likely than their male counterparts to deliver guideline-concordant care"

"The de facto exclusion of women from certain medical fields also has consequences for the doctor–patient relationship, particularly in specialties that address sensitive topics. For example, female patients prefer female urologists, yet considerably fewer women than men pursue urologic practice. Female patients voice similar preferences for female over male gastrointestinal endoscopists. Perpetuating work environments, hierarchies, or mentoring structures that disadvantage women may mean that patients cannot get the care with which they’re most comfortable in certain medical fields."

"In the scientific arena, women researchers have, in some studies, been shown to produce publications of greater impact than those of men, and the quality of patents in the life sciences submitted by female inventors is equal to or higher than that of patents from male inventors"

This begs the question, if men are so sexist and have inferior outcomes, why would anyone want a male physician?

Women want to be treated by other women physicians and minorities are better served when treated by the same race (see above posts). I mean what could possibly go wrong with following the logical outcomes of this scenario? :thinking:

It's amazing the poor quality of the studies to support these assertions and the editors of the NEJM letting it pass. Here is the study about the 30 day mortality and readmission rates: Outcomes of Hospitalized Medicare Beneficiaries Treated by Male vs Female Physicians

I dare someone to contact ASTRO and/or ASCO to run a prospective randomized control trial of men vs women oncologists for breast and prostate cancer.

More often it’s the men with the inflated egos and superiority complexes.
 
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More often it’s the men with the inflated egos and superiority complexes.

I don't disagree (anecdotally), but are there any positives that the male sex brings to medicine? Men also are more competitive (anecdotally) and thus may be more driven, which may lead to more productivity and longer hours. Is that possible? Sounds like from the articles I quoted these differences in men only make them worse, not better doctors. See the following quote from this article
Women in Medicine and Patient Outcomes Equal Rights for Better Work? (JAMA Int Med) :

"Previous work has shown that female physicians have a more patient centered communication style, are more encouraging and reassuring, and have longer visits than male physicians"


The problem, as you are restating, gives no one any rational reason for why a patient should choose a male physician, not to mention that all these papers talk about the sexism, unfair treatment, and harrassment men bring to the field. Of course, the author does not promote that explicitly, but it is not an unfair reading of the data. See this linked article on pubmed
(Fake medical news: Is it better to be treated by a male physician or a female physician? - PubMed - NCBI) from one of the papers I cited that exactly addressed this issue, because it really is one of the logical outcomes to consider, thus my facetious statement about an RCT of women vs men.
 
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ASTRO Goes All In with Equity and Diversity: ASTRO new Summer 2018, Vol. 21, Number 2

I am so sad and disturbed to see ASTRO going this route, especially in a time where dissent is not permitted on this issue. I wish I didn't have to post all this non-sense, but is there anywhere else on the internet that has collated the equity & diversity push in oncology?

One paper we see cited again and again is the Penner paper (I cited even here and now!), as well as the advocacy from Drs. Jagsi and Winkfield.

Penner etl al, note the following "The IAT is the most widely used measure of implicit bias and is extensively validated.22,46,47 "

References 22 and 47 are from the makers of the IAT themselves, Banaji & Greenwald, (talk about a COI), while reference 46 is a small study (n = 61) from a German student sample. This is NOT extensive validation, but is being used as definitive evidence for oncologists' implicit bias.

Here is a meta-analysis by someone who did not invent the test:

Oswald, F. L., Mitchell, G., Blanton, H., Jaccard, J., & Tetlock, P. E. (2013). Predicting ethnic and racial discrimination: A meta-analysis of IAT criterion studies. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 105(2), 171-192.

and further criticism from the same group:

Oswald, F. L., Mitchell, G., Blanton, H., Jaccard, J., & Tetlock, P. E. (2015). Using the IAT to predict ethnic and racial discrimination: Small effect sizes of unknown societal significance. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 108(4), 562-571.

Perhaps most striking is a statement from the authors themselves in a reply to the Oswald et. al's 2013 meta-analysis:
https://faculty.washington.edu/agg/pdf/Greenwald,Banaji&Nosek.JPSP.2015.pdf

"Identifying likely perpetrators of discrimination. IAT measures have two properties that render it problematic to use them to classify persons as likely to engage in discrimination. Those two properties are modest test–retest reliability (for the IAT, typically between r = .5 and r = .6; cf. Nosek et al., 2007) and small-to-moderate predictive validity effect sizes. Attempts to use such measures diagnostically for individuals therefore risk undesirably high rates of erroneous classifications.8 These problems of limited test–retest reliability and small effect sizes are maximal when the sample consists of a single person (i.e., for individual diagnostic use), but diminish substantially as sample size increases. Limited reliability and small-to-moderate effect sizes are therefore not problematic in diagnosing system-level discrimination, for which analyses often involve large samples."

It is very hard to understand what is going on here, but definitively we can say that the test (on the authors' own admission) cannot identify any individual's implicit bias. So if you individually take the test, then it cannot reliable test your implicit bias.

I guess somehow it can tests groups of people (implicit bias as an emergent property of groups???), but not sure if this is true or is even logically coherent.

I believe this is simply a cop out and agree with Oswald when he notes "IATs were poor predictors of every criterion category other than brain activity, and the IATs performed no better than simple explicit measures."
 
ASTRO Goes All In with Equity and Diversity: ASTRO new Summer 2018, Vol. 21, Number 2

I am so sad and disturbed to see ASTRO going this route, especially in a time where dissent is not permitted on this issue. I wish I didn't have to post all this non-sense, but is there anywhere else on the internet that has collated the equity & diversity push in oncology?

One paper we see cited again and again is the Penner paper (I cited even here and now!), as well as the advocacy from Drs. Jagsi and Winkfield.

Penner etl al, note the following "The IAT is the most widely used measure of implicit bias and is extensively validated.22,46,47 "

References 22 and 47 are from the makers of the IAT themselves, Banaji & Greenwald, (talk about a COI), while reference 46 is a small study (n = 61) from a German student sample. This is NOT extensive validation, but is being used as definitive evidence for oncologists' implicit bias.

Here is a meta-analysis by someone who did not invent the test:

Oswald, F. L., Mitchell, G., Blanton, H., Jaccard, J., & Tetlock, P. E. (2013). Predicting ethnic and racial discrimination: A meta-analysis of IAT criterion studies. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 105(2), 171-192.

and further criticism from the same group:

Oswald, F. L., Mitchell, G., Blanton, H., Jaccard, J., & Tetlock, P. E. (2015). Using the IAT to predict ethnic and racial discrimination: Small effect sizes of unknown societal significance. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 108(4), 562-571.

Perhaps most striking is a statement from the authors themselves in a reply to the Oswald et. al's 2013 meta-analysis:
https://faculty.washington.edu/agg/pdf/Greenwald,Banaji&Nosek.JPSP.2015.pdf

"Identifying likely perpetrators of discrimination. IAT measures have two properties that render it problematic to use them to classify persons as likely to engage in discrimination. Those two properties are modest test–retest reliability (for the IAT, typically between r = .5 and r = .6; cf. Nosek et al., 2007) and small-to-moderate predictive validity effect sizes. Attempts to use such measures diagnostically for individuals therefore risk undesirably high rates of erroneous classifications.8 These problems of limited test–retest reliability and small effect sizes are maximal when the sample consists of a single person (i.e., for individual diagnostic use), but diminish substantially as sample size increases. Limited reliability and small-to-moderate effect sizes are therefore not problematic in diagnosing system-level discrimination, for which analyses often involve large samples."

It is very hard to understand what is going on here, but definitively we can say that the test (on the authors' own admission) cannot identify any individual's implicit bias. So if you individually take the test, then it cannot reliable test your implicit bias.

I guess somehow it can tests groups of people (implicit bias as an emergent property of groups???), but not sure if this is true or is even logically coherent.

I believe this is simply a cop out and agree with Oswald when he notes "IATs were poor predictors of every criterion category other than brain activity, and the IATs performed no better than simple explicit measures."

...and here's yet another meta-analysis saying this IAT is very poorly predictive of behavior (ie these IAT measures are possibly worthless):

A Meta-Analysis of Procedures to Change Implicit Measures

We spend so much of our time warning residents and/or other physicians about the dangers of using non-externally validated tests (ie using MSKCC nomogram for DCIS, Van Nuys Score, or even Oncotype DCIS), yet we have a highly questionable IAT being propped up as "extensively validated," when I just don't see that in the data.
 
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And here's some commentary from some thought leaders in psychology, neuroscience, and philosophy.

Including this gem from the Director of the Center for Philosophy of Science at UPitt :

"And it is now clear that there is precious little, perhaps no, evidence that whatever it is that the IAT measures causes biased behavior. So, we have a measure of attitude that is not reliable, does not predict behavior well, may not measure anything causally relevant, and does not give us access to the unconscious causes of human behavior. It would be irresponsible to put much stock in it and to build theoretical castles on such quicksand."
 
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Our leadership is focused on these ridiculous issues and continue pushing their one sided ideology, while real problems remain unaddressed.

I am ashamed that our specialty is injecting this partisanship into our field. The latest from those in high who by their own wills are determined to bring their own version of justice to radiation oncology:

Increasing diversity in radiation oncology: a call to action https://advancesradonc.com/article/S2452-1094(18)30242-2/abstract


Putting Women on the Escalator: How to Address the Ongoing Leadership Disparity in Radiation


https://www.redjournal.org/article/S0360-3016(18)33540-5/fulltext?dgcid=raven_jbs_etoc_email
 
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