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I think everyone is arguing the same thing. Racists have a right to healthcare but they may need to travel to find someone suitable to their ideological hatred. Even then, they’ll suck.
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baculum1 said:
So radiation oncology exists in a vacuum with no connection or obligation to society and we are powerless to do anything about it or should do nothing about it in your view if these dark aspects of society enter our field? So you would not have your colleague’s back if a patient said they did not want to be treated by that ________ (racism) and would just walk in the room as a WASP and do the DRE yourself replacing your colleague because “liberty”? That logic is frustrating and makes zero sense to me.

Society looks to us for good example and to lead. We cannot avoid the uncomfortable to do what is convenient. We have to stand up for what is right and racism is not ok in my book. That patient is going somewhere else and they damn well will not have the option to be seen by another ethnicity. What a terrible slippery slope
Click to expand...
You are all over the place. I was responding to a post about people killing transwomen and now you’re equating that to people making stupidly based requests for a specific provider?

Those aren’t even remotely the same and it’s absurd to propose otherwise.

As for someone with a request for a specific provider, I don’t care at all who or why as long as they are being appropriate with the one they see. If the one they want has space on the schedule, fine. But the practice isn’t responsible to staff around those whims, if there is just one person on shift you get them or you wait. No apologies
 
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Thank you to all who have help devolve this thread, and more disappointingly this forum, into inanity. It's now time to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Former lurker
 
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Ray D. Ayshun said:
Thank you to all who have help devolve this thread, and more disappointingly this forum, into inanity. It's now time to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Former lurker
Click to expand...

Today was the day that Evilbooya lost the forum

I move for a vote of no confidence.

time for the next Mod to take over.

the white smoke will rise from the chimney
 
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Anybody who missed this gem (or turd depending on where you stand) on Doximity, check it out: ""I'm No Longer Interested in Adapting. It's Time for a Culture Change"
Think you need an account to see it.

The ****storm of comments from physicians on both sides are hilarious.

Various versions of "You have to accept my opinion that everything is sexist and you're not allowed to disagree because you're a sexist if you do."
Sad that such educated people have resorted to such foolishness.
 
Can't seem to find it on Doximity, which isn't surprising, as that website sucks.
 
Looks like it is public but buried in there -- you have to log in to see the comments, which isn't surprising, as I'm sure a number of those could go viral with doxxing and calls for their job:

opmed.doximity.com

Open Letter to My Colleagues: Culture Change is Everyone’s Responsibility

I am nearing the final chapter of my career, and, indeed, my life. May 2020 will mark 40 years since my graduation from the Medical College of Penn...
opmed.doximity.com opmed.doximity.com
 
KHE88 said:
Looks like it is public but buried in there -- you have to log in to see the comments, which isn't surprising, as I'm sure a number of those could go viral with doxxing and calls for their job:

opmed.doximity.com

Open Letter to My Colleagues: Culture Change is Everyone’s Responsibility

I am nearing the final chapter of my career, and, indeed, my life. May 2020 will mark 40 years since my graduation from the Medical College of Penn...
opmed.doximity.com opmed.doximity.com
Click to expand...

Still can't get to the comments, even after I log in...
 
Don’t women make slight majority of entering med school classes and sig majority of valedictorians etc doing better than men in many metrics.

Sam Harris (*EDITED BY MODS*) podcast this week was on this nonsensical victimhood/ moral panic “The problem with everything.”
podcasts.google.com

Making Sense with Sam Harris - #180 — Sex & Power

In this episode of the Making Sense podcast, Sam Harris speaks with Meghan Daum about her book “The Problem with Everything.” They discuss contemporary feminism, violence against women, campus sexual assault, moral panics, new norms of conversation, the 2020 Presidential campaign, and other...
podcasts.google.com podcasts.google.com
 
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Again - THIS FORUM IS NOT FOR POLITICAL DISCUSSION. Reminder to be cordial to fellow SDN members. You can disagree but do so nicely.

Warnings/deletions handed out. 10-12 posts deleted for discussion the political leanings of somebody (not relevant to the discussion)

As an aside, users are allowed to have whatever opinions of me that they would like, even if their opinions are wrong - that by itself will not lead you to getting banned.
 
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evilbooyaa said:
Again - THIS FORUM IS NOT FOR POLITICAL DISCUSSION. Reminder to be cordial to fellow SDN members. You can disagree but do so nicely.

Warnings/deletions handed out. 10-12 posts deleted for discussion the political leanings of somebody (not relevant to the discussion)

As an aside, users are allowed to have whatever opinions of me that they would like, even if their opinions are wrong - that by itself will not lead you to getting banned.
Click to expand...

You’re a way better person than me. I would be banning everyone and deleting posts all day!
 
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Despair doesn't kill, defending whiteness does



"For humans to use whiteness to manufacture access and privilege, they must engineer scarcity and loss. This entanglement between access and scarcity, privilege and loss, means white people’s unearned advantages... Because the consequences of structural whiteness are fatal and as new populations seek its exclusive advantages, the associated harms continue to unfold. For example, as some Asian American students challenge affirmative action, they not only risk eliminating opportunities for higher education they also risk decreasing life expectancy for affected non-white and/or Black students too. And as Hispanic Americans increasingly select white on the census, it reveals pressures to assimilate that may endanger their population health as well. "

Given the HR for whiteness, may need to stratify our RCTs on it :smack:

Wouldn't necessarily mind the discussion if Lancet, NEJM, or JAMA allowed any viewpoint diversity. Wouldn't it help move the needle?

I have to agree with Dr. Flier (Harvard University Distinguished Service Professor and Higginson Professor of Physiology and Medicine at Harvard Medical School. Formerly Dean of HMS. ) here:

 
Where was the thread about filling out surveys? Do those who filled out the surveys know they are sexist pigs? I'm never ever filling out one of those surveys again.

I didn't read the paper, but man they are fishing like crazy here. Can't they just say "good job rad onc on your relatively equitable approach" instead they go on a p-hacking trip to find that females receive lower honorarium. If they found the magic "p < 0.05" for visiting prof. #'s they could've got a NEJM article! Red journal only for sub-group analysis from a n = 60 :smack:

Also found something interesting under COI:

Unrelated conflicts include: RJ has stock options as compensation for her advisory board role in Equity Quotient, a company that evaluates culture in health care companies...

Sounds like a relevant COI to me...
 
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RadOncDoc21 said:
Visiting Professorship in Academic Radiation Oncology


:corny:
Click to expand...

Some relevant points not immediately apparent from the abstract:

1) While the PD response rate is stated to be 60/93 (65%), they actually excluded 15 surveys for various reasons, making the final analysis 45/93, or 48%.

2) Here is the honoraria data:

Annotation 2020-05-24 080010 - Copy.jpg


The means for men vs women is $1000 vs $867 ($133 difference).

3) Here are the relevant honoraria figures:

Annotation 2020-05-24 080010 2 - Copy.jpg


Annotation 2020-05-24 080125 3 - Copy.jpg


Annotation 2020-05-24 080149 4 - Copy.jpg


4) It is immediately apparent that "not top-20" institutions offer more honoraria than their "top-20" counterparts (rank determined by Doximity score).

5) Nowhere in the paper do they actually adjust for this in their analysis of men vs women. They do acknowledge this lack in the paper:

Annotation 2020-05-24 081534 5 - Copy.jpg


To make any meaningful conclusions about honoraria differences based on gender, it seems to me that you MUST control for department rank. This reads as p-hacking at its finest on a hot-button issue.
 
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elementaryschooleconomics said:
Some relevant points not immediately apparent from the abstract:

1) While the PD response rate is stated to be 60/93 (65%), they actually excluded 15 surveys for various reasons, making the final analysis 45/93, or 48%.

2) Here is the honoraria data:

View attachment 307406

The means for men vs women is $1000 vs $867 ($133 difference).

3) Here are the relevant honoraria figures:

View attachment 307407

View attachment 307408

View attachment 307409

4) It is immediately apparent that "not top-20" institutions offer more honoraria than their "top-20" counterparts (rank determined by Doximity score).

5) Nowhere in the paper do they actually adjust for this in their analysis of men vs women. They do acknowledge this lack in the paper:

View attachment 307411

To make any meaningful conclusions about honoraria differences based on gender, it seems to me that you MUST control for department rank. This reads as p-hacking at its finest on a hot-button issue.
Click to expand...

Just looking at it again: the more honest conclusion is "women receive more invitations to Top-ranked Departments which pay less".
 
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medgator said:
Another winner from the red urinal. It's crap like that continues to give the publication and the specialty a bad name
Click to expand...

Did no one who reviewed this paper notice that the average honoraria between men and women are almost exactly the same as the average honoraria offered by top-20 vs not-top-20 departments? Or did the editors allow the authors to let that slide?
 
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i remember during interviews it seemed chairmen all wanted to outdo each-other, “nobody loves women more than I do”. It was openly stated that they wanted to match a female. Now that i routinely review apps, it is the same thing, we have BINDERS full of women. Nobody loves women more than we do!
 
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thecarbonionangle said:
i remember during interviews it seemed chairmen all wanted to outdo each-other, “nobody loves women more than I do”. It was openly stated that they wanted to match a female. Now that i routinely review apps, it is the same thing, we have BINDERS full of women. Nobody loves women more than we do!
Click to expand...
"Too many radonc’s aren’t able to practice their love with women all across the country"?
 
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thecarbonionangle said:
i remember during interviews it seemed chairmen all wanted to outdo each-other, “nobody loves women more than I do”. It was openly stated that they wanted to match a female. Now that i routinely review apps, it is the same thing, we have BINDERS full of women. Nobody loves women more than we do!
Click to expand...
Secretly recorded video of SCAROP meeting in the Dark Ages (maybe 2015?)

 
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Dr. Reshma Jagsi is super annoying

We all agree women need a fair chance but she just publishes BS after BS turning little things into big issues when they don’t even exist

Eventually turns into girl who cries wolf...
 
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elementaryschooleconomics said:
Did no one who reviewed this paper notice that the average honoraria between men and women are almost exactly the same as the average honoraria offered by top-20 vs not-top-20 departments? Or did the editors allow the authors to let that slide?
Click to expand...

Dr. Reshma jagsi been getting a free pass for years

Respect her for wanting to improve situation for women BUT publishes

1) consistent scientific garbage
2) click bait
3) op Ed saying same thing repetitively (somehow in NEJM)
 
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thecarbonionangle said:
i remember during interviews it seemed chairmen all wanted to outdo each-other, “nobody loves women more than I do”. It was openly stated that they wanted to match a female. Now that i routinely review apps, it is the same thing, we have BINDERS full of women. Nobody loves women more than we do!
Click to expand...

You interviewed at the White House?
 
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beamseyeview said:
Ironically, one time when I was a resident, we invited RJ for a visiting professorship

Needless to say, she was more interested in talking about gender issues than breast management

My big takeway was that as a female resident, I would need to get a nanny or else I wouldn't be able to keep climbing the academic ladder

:uhno:
Click to expand...

Nanny’s are pretty expensive. Will the Dept provide child care?
 
RadsWFA1900 said:
Nanny’s are pretty expensive. Will the Dept provide child care?
Click to expand...
A good nanny is priceless. Some of them make 6 figures in the high end of the market

Might even pay more than some RO positions
www.cnn.com

What it takes to be a $200,000-a-year nanny

Nanny positions aren't usually thought of as high-paying jobs. But with wealthier families seeking out more specialized roles, it's more common to see in-home child caregivers earning six-figure salaries.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
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medgator said:
A good nanny is priceless. Same of them make 6 figures in the high end of the market

Might even pay more than some RO positions
www.cnn.com

What it takes to be a $200,000-a-year nanny

Nanny positions aren't usually thought of as high-paying jobs. But with wealthier families seeking out more specialized roles, it's more common to see in-home child caregivers earning six-figure salaries.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
Click to expand...

I think I chose the wrong career. FML :laugh:
 
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Everytime I see a RJ publication, the chances that I take her LESS seriously (and the comment about the girl who cried wolf I think is appropriate) are about 95%. The one time I can think of a (at least a recent) RJ gender issues paper that made me go "hmm, yes, that's actually a problem" was the one about women presenters not being called Dr. X, but rather by their first name, at a higher rate. The OP ed in NEJM seemed like a strawman, but if the scenarios she explained were actually happening (not impossible given how old and white leadership in hospitals is, not specific to rad onc) then yes that's bad.

I was not aware that visiting professorships paid honorariums - figured they covered expenses for a few days and the point of doing them was to have an extra line on your CV - not to make money (we're talking about a $133 difference for people who make likely at least 250k a year).

Maybe this is a radical thought, but I would not expect an honorarium to be a visiting professor (just expenses covered). If I feel like I have to be bribed to be a visiting professor (and the CV building and increased name recognition is not enough for me), then it's probably just better if I don't go.
 
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evilbooyaa said:
Everytime I see a RJ publication, the chances that I take her LESS seriously (and the comment about the girl who cried wolf I think is appropriate) are about 95%. The one time I can think of a (at least a recent) RJ gender issues paper that made me go "hmm, yes, that's actually a problem" was the one about women presenters not being called Dr. X, but rather by their first name, at a higher rate. The OP ed in NEJM seemed like a strawman, but if the scenarios she explained were actually happening (not impossible given how old and white leadership in hospitals is, not specific to rad onc) then yes that's bad.

I was not aware that visiting professorships paid honorariums - figured they covered expenses for a few days and the point of doing them was to have an extra line on your CV - not to make money (we're talking about a $133 difference for people who make likely at least 250k a year).

Maybe this is a radical thought, but I would not expect an honorarium to be a visiting professor (just expenses covered). If I feel like I have to be bribed to be a visiting professor (and the CV building and increased name recognition is not enough for me), then it's probably just better if I don't go.
Click to expand...

Agree with 50% of what you said @evilbooyaa (mainly about RJ)

Absolutely there is and should be $$$ given to visiting professor

There is significant opportunity cost you are giving up in that situation that justifies $$$

You are giving up a vacation day, time spent with family, etc to go. Not enough to list on CV

Doctors need more self advocacy with $$$
 
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I guess we'll agree to disagree. Whether I liked an institution, it's people, etc. would have much more influence on my willingness to go be a visiting professor rather than $500 or $1000 extra in my pocket.

Multiply that by 5 or 10 and I'll be happy to be a visting professor in the worst, most malignant place in the whole world. But as an attending I'm not really going to let the draw of $500 be the deciding factor of whether I go or not.

Or, at least I say that right now. Who knows, maybe $500 will still feel like a ton of money to spend schlepping around for visiting professorships that I otherwise wouldn't.
 
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evilbooyaa said:
I guess we'll agree to disagree. Whether I liked an institution, it's people, etc. would have much more influence on my willingness to go be a visiting professor rather than $500 or $1000 extra in my pocket.

Multiply that by 5 or 10 and I'll be happy to be a visting professor in the worst, most malignant place in the whole world. But as an attending I'm not really going to let the draw of $500 be the deciding factor of whether I go or not.

Or, at least I say that right now. Who knows, maybe $500 will still feel like a ton of money to spend schlepping around for visiting professorships that I otherwise wouldn't.
Click to expand...

Depends on the speaker, more established attendings can pull $2000 or more

I don’t feel bad when the rich hospital or dept has to shell out ;)
 
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Id like to offer another view to VP discussion. I would actually go to a bad no good malignant place (there are many sadly) as a VP. Our field is already plenty elitist. these residents often get very little education and you being there will take them away from scut and a bad environment. We have the opportunity to do good and be ambassadors at these places. Go on these trips, money or not and show people that it is not all bad out there. Give people hope. As a VP you have an opportunity to make a difference and mentor.
 
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thecarbonionangle said:
Id like to offer another view to VP discussion. I would actually go to a bad no good malignant place (there are many sadly) as a VP. Our field is already plenty elitist. these residents often get very little education and you being there will take them away from scut and a bad environment. We have the opportunity to do good and be ambassadors at these places. Go on these trips, money or not and show people that it is not all bad out there. Give people hope. As a VP you have an opportunity to make a difference and mentor.
Click to expand...

Exactly. My co-residents and I would have loved more visiting professor lectures after the department decided they wanted to stop paying for them or blackballed the local community doctors and alumni from giving us lectures by making them uncomfortable and feel unwelcome. At least outsiders wanted to teach us something.
 
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metallica81788 said:
Exactly. My co-residents and I would have loved more visiting professor lectures after the department decided they wanted to stop paying for them or blackballed the local community doctors and alumni from giving us lectures by making them uncomfortable and feel unwelcome. At least outsiders wanted to teach us something.
Click to expand...

We can’t let cheap depts low ball doctors worth.

If you want to learn from someone, reach out directly to who you want to teach you.

Or ask on MedNet

But don’t decline accepting Significant money or allow dept not paying money under the guise of “teaching residents for the love of the game”

Ruins everyone’s worth as a whole
 
radoncdoc16 said:
We can’t let cheap depts low ball doctors worth.

If you want to learn from someone, reach out directly to who you want to teach you.

Or ask on MedNet

But don’t decline accepting Significant money or allow dept not paying money under the guise of “teaching residents for the love of the game”

Ruins everyone’s worth as a whole
Click to expand...


I was thinking bigger bucks, but I agree with you that people who advocate doing a VP for free to help all the residents at **** programs don't know their own worth. If it makes one feel good to be doing charity work, then so be it I suppose.
 
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radoncdoc16 said:
We can’t let cheap depts low ball doctors worth.

If you want to learn from someone, reach out directly to who you want to teach you.

Or ask on MedNet

But don’t decline accepting Significant money or allow dept not paying money under the guise of “teaching residents for the love of the game”

Ruins everyone’s worth as a whole
Click to expand...
evilbooyaa said:
I was thinking bigger bucks, but I agree with you that people who advocate doing a VP for free to help all the residents at **** programs don't know their own worth. If it makes one feel good to be doing charity work, then so be it I suppose.
Click to expand...

Agreed. My point was that regardless of what VPs will and won't accept there are **** departments that don't want to pay for them.
 
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This whole thing is amazing. Would a visiting professor really not come because the University didn't throw 1k at them? That's about $500 after taxes at the highest marginal rate + state tax. Who the heck cares about $500 if you are important enough to get invited to be a VP? That's dinner on a regular saturday night.

I'd say it's more of a courtesy than anything. An insult if you aren't willing to give a little tip. They're still paying for airfare and lodging + a nice meal right? This whole thing is about networking and spreading your influence.

Simply astonishing.
 
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I suspect that the argument against compensating VPs isnt about departments being "cheap" but rather a number of other issues. I suspect ego plays a role here in that "it's an honor to be invited here to speak" or they feel that they have equivalent level faculty on staff. Additionally, I know multiple instances where VP opportunities we're actually disguised job interviews.


That being said getting paid is a nice perk that should be continued in my opinion.
 
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KHE88 said:
This whole thing is amazing. Would a visiting professor really not come because the University didn't throw 1k at them? That's about $500 after taxes at the highest marginal rate + state tax. Who the heck cares about $500 if you are important enough to get invited to be a VP? That's dinner on a regular saturday night.

I'd say it's more of a courtesy than anything. An insult if you aren't willing to give a little tip. They're still paying for airfare and lodging + a nice meal right? This whole thing is about networking and spreading your influence.

Simply astonishing.
Click to expand...

I recommend rereading white cost investor, and not short changing your own worth

Visiting professorship is akin to consultancy

I don’t need to go to Denver and talk to UC

I’d much rather hangout with my family.

So if I’m going to go, then pay me fairly for my time

Otherwise, no thanks
 
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radoncdoc16 said:
I recommend rereading white cost investor, and not short changing your own worth

Visiting professorship is akin to consultancy

I don’t need to go to Denver and talk to UC

I’d much rather hangout with my family.

So if I’m going to go, then pay me fairly for my time

Otherwise, no thanks
Click to expand...

Agree

How many of us do telephone/online surveys for extra cash? Plenty I'm sure, medscape has a ton of them, as does opinion site. Don't see how this is any different, unless you're using it as an opportunity to get your foot in the door at said institution
 
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radoncdoc16 said:
I recommend rereading white cost investor, and not short changing your own worth

Visiting professorship is akin to consultancy

I don’t need to go to Denver and talk to UC

I’d much rather hangout with my family.

So if I’m going to go, then pay me fairly for my time

Otherwise, no thanks
Click to expand...

You're missing my point entirely.

You want me to spend 3 days of my time traveling to some lower tier program to be a VP? How much is that worth? 10k. Minimum.

And you all are talking being about upset about missing out on 1k?

That's not even in the same ballpark. That's a tip. A courtesy. Plain and simple.

Get it?

So if you were doing it for 1k before, then you were ALWAYS doing it for something else other than the money. That's nothing.
It's a JOKE to be upset that you are getting paid zero to do that instead of 1k. You might as well be getting paid ZERO.
 
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KHE88 said:
You're missing my point entirely.

You want me to spend 3 days of my time traveling to some lower tier program to be a VP? How much is that worth? 10k. Minimum.

And you all are talking being about upset about missing out on 1k?

That's not even in the same ballpark. That's a tip. A courtesy. Plain and simple.

Get it?

So if you were doing it for 1k before, then you were ALWAYS doing it for something else other than the money. That's nothing.
It's a JOKE to be upset that you are getting paid zero to do that instead of 1k. You might as well be getting paid ZERO.
Click to expand...

No, I don't think so. You are missing out and taking the $1000 too literally.

First of all, $1000 was just a random number. Choose whatever number you want.

Second, are you kidding me? $1000 is always better than 0. No it is not a joke. That is literally worth 1/2 of 1 amazon stock today. If you are worth more than $1000, then great! I would be very HAPPY FOR YOU or anyone else to MAKE AS MUCH consultancy money as possible

Third, I don't give AF about which "tier" program I travel to, I care about $$$

I would much rather go to literally the worst program in the country that pays me well, then go to MSKCC or MDACC and get close to nothing (idk how much they offer, just random example).

I will not give a discount to a "better" program.
 
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