DAT percentiles.... WTF ??!!!

[hunterx2]

Hi guys,

I heard that the national average DAT score for accepted students is somewhere between 20 and 21. I can't find the exact official number, but just by going through several school websites that figure seems about right. But according to the DAT performance statistics from the ADA (http://www.ada.org/sections/educationAndCareers/pdfs/dat_users_manual.pdf) such a score (20-21) is around the 90th percentile.

WTF???

So that means you really have to score in the 90th percentile just to be an average accepted student? I'm finding that pretty hard to believe, especially since the average MCAT score for accepted MD students (not DO), is around 30, which is only in the 80th percentile. Why such a large gap between accepted medical and dental students, and why is it so much tougher for dental, at least as far as testing goes ? Any thoughts?

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[ddsmission]

Hi guys,

I heard that the national average DAT score for accepted students is somewhere between 20 and 21. I can't find the exact official number, but just by going through several school websites that figure seems about right. But according to the DAT performance statistics from the ADA (http://www.ada.org/sections/educationAndCareers/pdfs/dat_users_manual.pdf) such a score (20-21) is around the 90th percentile.

WTF???

So that means you really have to score in the 90th percentile just to be an average accepted student? I'm finding that pretty hard to believe, especially since the average MCAT score for accepted MD students (not DO), is around 30, which is only in the 80th percentile. Why such a large gap between accepted medical and dental students, and why is it so much tougher for dental, at least as far as testing goes ? Any thoughts?

simple answer. MCAT is much harder than the DAT

 

[jeffity]

The average isn't 20-21 for accepted students.

 

[MedDevil]

The average is around 19.

 

[UCSFx2017]

Percentiles vary for each test. A 20 could be 93rd percentile for one test and then 88th percentile for another one. There are a lot more overachievers who are pre-med and aim for 36-45 and skew the curve. Each year, the average DAT score for matriculates slowly creeps up. I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years the average does become 20.

 

[dentalWorks]

Hi guys,

I heard that the national average DAT score for accepted students is somewhere between 20 and 21. I can't find the exact official number, but just by going through several school websites that figure seems about right. But according to the DAT performance statistics from the ADA (http://www.ada.org/sections/educationAndCareers/pdfs/dat_users_manual.pdf) such a score (20-21) is around the 90th percentile.

WTF???

So that means you really have to score in the 90th percentile just to be an average accepted student? I'm finding that pretty hard to believe, especially since the average MCAT score for accepted MD students (not DO), is around 30, which is only in the 80th percentile. Why such a large gap between accepted medical and dental students, and why is it so much tougher for dental, at least as far as testing goes ? Any thoughts?

First off all, the average DAT for matriculated candidates is between 19-20 (not 20-21)

Second, there is NO COMPARISON WHATSOEVER to the percentages you get from your DAT to how "competitive" you are. Simply put, the schools don't even get ur percentages, only the raw scores (example 21AA, 22TS). Some people get 21AA and their % is 90-92, others also get the same 21AA but their % (for that particular test version) ends up 97.xx% (that was my DAT).

Third, DAT vs MCAT is a different world, you can't compare their statistics to ours.

 

[hunterx2]

Where do I find the official ADA stats on accepted students? I can't find it on their website for some reason, only the performance data. Even if the average is 19-20, that's still around the 85th percentile for AA.

Yes the percentiles vary, but not by very much. In the link I provided http://www.ada.org/sections/educationAndCareers/pdfs/dat_users_manual.pdf you can see the data sets from1999, 2004, and 2009, and the AA percentiles vary by only around 2-3, although some of the individual subsections have greater variation (up to 6 or 7). I don't think pre-meds will skew the curve for accepted dental students. The ones who are sure to get 35+ will probably only focus on the MCAT, and few will take the DAT, let alone apply and get accepted to dental school.

My only explanation is that dental schools place a higher premium on good scores compared to medical schools. I found this interesting document from the AAMC where it was suggested that other selection factors, such as letters of recommendation, EC's, and interview performance are held as even more important than scores. https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf
How else are you supposed to explain the fact that in 2012, over 3800 applicants scored >36 on the MCAT, but the average score of accepted students at Johns Hopkins and Harvard are only around 35 ??

 

[emorypredent]

One thing to consider is the ratio of how many people took the DAT to the number of spots available in dental schools. If that ratio is greater than the ratio of MCAT takers to the number of medical schools, then you have an answer.

 

[jeffity]

Some stats for fun.

Applicant AA
2000 17.8
2001 18.0
2002 18.0
2003 17.8
2004 17.6
2005 17.7
2006 18.0
2007 18.2
2008 17.8
2009 17.9
2010 18.2
2011 18.5

Enrollee AA
2000 18.5
2001 18.8
2002 18.8
2003 18.5
2004 18.7
2005 18.7
2006 19.3
2007 19.5
2008 18.8
2009 19.0
2010 19.3
2011 19.4

Seats Available
2000 4,234
2001 4,267
2002 4,372
2003 4,528
2004 4,457
2005 4,558
2006 4,608
2007 4,618
2008 4,794
2009 4,831
2010 4,947
2011 5,311

Number of Examinees
2002 6.341
2003 7,282
2004 7,986
2005 8,712
2006 8,934
2007 8,893
2008 8,964
2009 8,737
2010 8,585
2011 8,732

 

[hunterx2]

Where did you get those figures from? Those numbers seem a little high. I mean, 5,311 spots available for only 8,732 test takers in 2011? So almost 61% of ppl who take the test get accepted?

 

[jeffity]

Where did you get those figures from? Those numbers seem a little high. I mean, 5,311 spots available for only 8,732 test takers in 2011? So almost 61% of ppl who take the test get accepted?

All ADA. Number of test takers is not the same as number of applicants.

 

[jeffity]

Applicants for the past few years.

2008
Applicants: 12,178

2009
Applicants: 12,210

2010
Applicants: 12,001

2011
Applicants: 11,174

2012
Applicants: 11,655

 

[CedarZ4]

Interesting post, thanks for all the stats jeffity

Interesting to see the # of applicants decrease in the past 2 years (maybe they all realized the debt you'll be in for the next 30 years? ), however, there are still new schools opening meaning more seats. Hmm, I wonder what this means...

 

[ktran17]

The percentiles are weird.. on my test, a 22AA was 98.9 percentile =P

 

[Bottle]

Applicants for the past few years.

2008
Applicants: 12,178

2009
Applicants: 12,210

2010
Applicants: 12,001

2011
Applicants: 11,174

2012
Applicants: 11,655

thats very interesting post. thanks !

11k people for 5k seats. its almost 50% chance of getting in. make me feel better.

 

[hunterx2]

OP, why you mad though?

I'm not mad, I'm just freaked out cause I'm taking the DAT in 2 wks. I suppose that having to score in the 85-90th percentile just to be average is a great motivator right now

 

[dentalWorks]

Where do I find the official ADA stats on accepted students? I can't find it on their website for some reason, only the performance data. Even if the average is 19-20, that's still around the 85th percentile for AA.

Yes the percentiles vary, but not by very much. In the link I provided http://www.ada.org/sections/educationAndCareers/pdfs/dat_users_manual.pdf you can see the data sets from1999, 2004, and 2009, and the AA percentiles vary by only around 2-3, although some of the individual subsections have greater variation (up to 6 or 7). I don't think pre-meds will skew the curve for accepted dental students. The ones who are sure to get 35+ will probably only focus on the MCAT, and few will take the DAT, let alone apply and get accepted to dental school.

My only explanation is that dental schools place a higher premium on good scores compared to medical schools. I found this interesting document from the AAMC where it was suggested that other selection factors, such as letters of recommendation, EC's, and interview performance are held as even more important than scores. https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf
How else are you supposed to explain the fact that in 2012, over 3800 applicants scored >36 on the MCAT, but the average score of accepted students at Johns Hopkins and Harvard are only around 35 ??

I am still confused as to why you keep comparing apples vs. space ships

there is no relationship whatsoever between DAT scores (percentiles, "competitiveness" or whatever else criterion) to MCAT numbers.... They do have 1 thing in common (here comes a "duh" moment), score high on either score and you are more appealing

 

[Bis-GMA111]

I'm not mad, I'm just freaked out cause I'm taking the DAT in 2 wks. I suppose that having to score in the 85-90th percentile just to be average is a great motivator right now

well to be honest, the % doesn't matter at all. the adcom people don't even see the percentages. if a 20 is a 75% on one exam and a 90% on another, it doesn't matter. they will see a 20 on your score report and that's it.

and i'm not sure if this is true, but i've heard that they're getting rid of the %s altogether. so just focus on getting a 19/20 at least and you'll be fine. good luck

 

[DarlingDDS]

Where did you get those figures from? Those numbers seem a little high. I mean, 5,311 spots available for only 8,732 test takers in 2011? So almost 61% of ppl who take the test get accepted?

Keep in mind that applicant number does not equal DAT taker number. DAT scores are good for several years, so not every applicant takes the DAT in the same year(s) they apply.

 

[hunterx2]

Keep in mind that applicant number does not equal DAT taker number. DAT scores are good for several years, so not every applicant takes the DAT in the same year(s) they apply.

That only increases your chances though, since the # of ppl who take the test is always greater than the number of ppl who apply. And if you take into account ppl who retake next year the odds are even better. Therefore, it makes no sense to me that 61 % of ppl who apply get accepted, yet the average person only scores around a 15-16, compared to an average of 19-20 for accepted students. The numbers simply do not add up.

 

[jexxx007]

Do you guys know how many people (percentile) with over AA23 TS23 scores are accepted at each school? just curious.

 

[doc toothache]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=992010

Do you guys know how many people (percentile) with over AA23 TS23 scores are accepted at each school? just curious.

There may be ~120 applicants that had an AA above 23.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=901073

 

[jexxx007]

Thanks for the information doc. toothache. I just wanna make sure that each ds get around 120 applications with over AA23 and TS23 scores. otherwise, is it the number of applicants out of total number of applicants (~12000 applicants) ? I assume that the average of DAT score will be more than 22 for every dental school if the number of applicants(~120) is for each school.

 

[doc toothache]

Thanks for the information doc. toothache. I just wanna make sure that each ds get around 120 applications with over AA23 and TS23 scores. otherwise, is it the number of applicants out of total number of applicants (~12000 applicants) ? I assume that the average of DAT score will be more than 22 for every dental school if the number of applicants(~120) is for each school.

Having 120 applicants with AA of 23 for each ds would be something Dean's dream about.

 

[hunterx2]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=992010

Great link. So it confirms what was said before, that the average accepted student's AA is around 20

 

[doc toothache]

Great link. So it confirms what was said before, that the average accepted student's AA is around 20

It confirms that it is between 19 and 20 and not 20 to 21.

 

[dentaldime]

First off all, the average DAT for matriculated candidates is between 19-20 (not 20-21)

Second, there is NO COMPARISON WHATSOEVER to the percentages you get from your DAT to how "competitive" you are. Simply put, the schools don't even get ur percentages, only the raw scores (example 21AA, 22TS). Some people get 21AA and their % is 90-92, others also get the same 21AA but their % (for that particular test version) ends up 97.xx% (that was my DAT).

Third, DAT vs MCAT is a different world, you can't compare their statistics to ours.

How do you know what percentile you were in for that given test??? I would really like to know this!!

 

[sobertiger]

How do you know what percentile you were in for that given test??? I would really like to know this!!

This thread is four years old. They used to give out percentiles in the score report, but they don't anymore.

 

[weaselodeath]

I thought that every 5 points from the mean of 15 was essentially a standard deviation unless a perfect score was less than 3 sd's away. If this were the case, then a 20 would be ~85th percentile, a 25 would be ~99.7th, and a 30 ~99.9th as long as perfect scores are rare enough to maintain the ideal distribution. Am I incorrect?

 

[FeralisExtremum]

I thought that every 5 points from the mean of 15 was essentially a standard deviation unless a perfect score was less than 3 sd's away. If this were the case, then a 20 would be ~85th percentile, a 25 would be ~99.7th, and a 30 ~99.9th as long as perfect scores are rare enough to maintain the ideal distribution. Am I incorrect?

That would be incorrect. The ADA no longer gives this information out, but based on the 2009 user score report (see page 20), the standard deviation has had a range from 2.24 - 2.54 depending on the year. The mean of all test takers is also much higher than a 15 these days - it's slightly over 19.