Feb 26, 2016
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I go to school in the Northeast, in a city with 3 dental schools

The school is amazing. The class size is large, but the faculty is great. It's not bad.

My only issue is... my classmates. A lot of them are from Florida, Texas, Georgia, the South - basically not anywhere near the north. Probably because the school is expensive, so if they couldn't get into their state school, they come here. Many of them hold less than spectacular views about minorities

Just the other day - literally in the dental school I heard a classmate whispering about "the ghetto blacks" [unsure if referring to people in our school, or elsewhere]. Another one was telling a story about 'going into dorchester (a majority minority area) and almost getting robbed by a bunch of "spics". A few others are seriously talking about how trump is the best thing to ever happen, and a large majority of people agreeing with them.

Now - Boston itself is one of the most racially-insensitive cities in the US - I knew that coming here, but is this really normal, or are my classmates just insensitive pricks? I've heard similar stories from others in the classes above me, but it seems most people just sweep it under the rug...
 

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Sorry to hear that. I would just ignore it tbh.
 
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I go to school in the Northeast, in a city with 3 dental schools

The school is amazing. The class size is large, but the faculty is great. It's not bad.

My only issue is... my classmates. A lot of them are from Florida, Texas, Georgia, the South - basically not anywhere near the north. Probably because the school is expensive, so if they couldn't get into their state school, they come here. Many of them hold less than spectacular views about minorities

Just the other day - literally in the dental school I heard a classmate whispering about "the ghetto blacks" [unsure if referring to people in our school, or elsewhere]. Another one was telling a story about 'going into dorchester (a majority minority area) and almost getting robbed by a bunch of "spics". A few others are seriously talking about how trump is the best thing to ever happen, and a large majority of people agreeing with them.

Now - Boston itself is one of the most racially-insensitive cities in the US - I knew that coming here, but is this really normal, or are my classmates just insensitive pricks? I've heard similar stories from others in the classes above me, but it seems most people just sweep it under the rug...
Being from the southern part of the country doesn't automatically make one racist, just as being from the northern part of the country doesn't automatically mean one is tolerant. I understand you may be facing some ignorant and frustrating viewpoints, but to conflate those views with state residency doesn't do anything to help the issue. In fact, you risk being accused of having your own sweeping negative biases based on something out of a person's control (where they were born and/or grew up). If it upsets you that certain individuals are speaking negatively about an entire subset of the population, you may want to consider whether you are doing something similar.

Also, politics is a different beast, and something you will have to learn to deal with in this country. Trump has won the Republican primaries in New Hampshire and Iowa -- both decidely not southern states. Just because you do not agree with your classmates politically doesn't mean they are not entitled to express their own views (although I think it's wisest to avoid discussions of religion and politics in a professional setting). That's part of the whole democracy thing, and we shouldn't feel that we have the right to censor people just because we're offended by them. Free speech is a wonderful thing. So is voting.

Obviously there are restrictions to free speech in certain cases. For example, "threats of violence that are directed at a person or group of persons that has the intent of placing the target at risk of bodily harm or death are generally unprotected." But just generally sounding like a jerk is our right as American citizens, and some people flex that right more than others. ;)
 
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This is racist? (and enough to be alarmed about?)
Either I am racist too or you're just way too PC
 
Feb 26, 2016
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This is racist? (and enough to be alarmed about?)
Either I am racist too or you're just way too PC
Being from the southern part of the country doesn't automatically make one racist, just as being from the northern part of the country doesn't automatically mean one is tolerant. I understand you may be facing some ignorant and frustrating viewpoints, but to conflate those views with state residency doesn't do anything to help the issue. In fact, you risk being accused of having your own sweeping negative biases based on something out of a person's control (where they were born and/or grew up). If it upsets you that certain individuals are speaking negatively about an entire subset of the population, you may want to consider whether you are doing something similar.

Also, politics is a different beast, and something you will have to learn to deal with in this country. Trump has won the Republican primaries in New Hampshire and Iowa -- both decidely not southern states. Just because you do not agree with your classmates politically doesn't mean they are not entitled to express their own views (although I think it's wisest to avoid discussions of religion and politics in a professional setting). That's part of the whole democracy thing, and we shouldn't feel that we have the right to censor people just because we're offended by them. Free speech is a wonderful thing. So is voting.

Obviously there are restrictions to free speech in certain cases. For example, "threats of violence that are directed at a person or group of persons that has the intent of placing the target at risk of bodily harm or death are generally unprotected." But just generally sounding like a jerk is our right as American citizens, and some people flex that right more than others. ;)
I understand you guy's argument, and to a certain extent, I agree with you -

But maybe I was being a bit too tame my original post... I'm not questioning whether my classmates are racist... it's how to deal with them. My own "negative" biases have nothing to do with this.

I'm not gullible enough to believe that classmates saying the n-word + and related terms repeatedly (at parties, bars, pre-games... "jokingly"), constantly making disparaging comments about muslims, our medicaid population (these "people (i.e., blacks) shouldn't be having kids", "they should be euthanized", slave jokes, etc... is being "way too PC". The whole trump thing was just so you guys could get a (humorous) sense of what I am talking about.

Before I moved to Boston a few years ago, One of my friends warned me that it was the "South of the North" - so I'm just piggybacking off his quote.

These comments are annoying, and to be honest, downright disgusting. I'm ashamed I have to go to school with people who act like this. Dentistry, and the medical field are based on the doctor-patient relationship, and cultural competence is one of the IDEALS we are taught to strive for. However this school, and city make me feel like I just went back 40 years ago in time...

Edit - I'm considering bringing it up to the administration - but to be honest - what can they do? Expel 1/6 of the class?
 
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I understand you guy's argument, and to a certain extent, I agree with you -

But maybe I was being a bit too tame my original post... I'm not questioning whether my classmates are racist... it's how to deal with them. My own "negative" biases have nothing to do with this.

I'm not gullible enough to believe that classmates saying the n-word + and related terms repeatedly (at parties, bars, pre-games... "jokingly"), constantly disparaging comments about muslims, our medicaid population (these "people (i.e., blacks) shouldn't be having kids", "they should be euthanized", slave jokes, etc... is being "way too PC". The whole trump thing was just so you guys could get a numerous sense of what I am talking about.

Before I moved to Boston a few years ago, One of my friends warned me that it was the "South of the North" - so I'm just piggybacking off her quote.

These comments are annoying, and to be honest, downright disgusting. I'm ashamed I have to go to school with people who act like this. Dentistry, and the medical field are based on the doctor-patient relationship, and cultural competence is one of the IDEALS we are taught to strive for. However this school, and city make me feel like I just went back 40 years ago in time...

Edit - I'm considering bringing it up to the administration - but to be honest - what can they do? Expel 1/6 of the class?
Yikes. It sucks but there's really not much you can do. You can report it if you'd like but it's a can of worms.
 
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There's a comedian named Bill Burr who has a podcast in which he likes to have semi-serious discussions. If you can make it past the first few minutes of this one (starts out with lots of argument) and really listen to what he's saying, he brings up some good points about how to handle/approach these kinds of people: (Warning: explicit language lol)

I am not sure what I would do if I heard people saying the things you've mentioned. I've lived almost my entire life in TX and have not had those experiences, thankfully. I think I would alert the administration to the need for a cultural competency course / meetings (attendance required by all) that could provide an opportunity for open dialogue amongst students -- leaving all torches and pitchforks at the door -- so that there would be opportunity for growth, not just censorship and resentment.
 

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Freedom of speech always works both ways.
 
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Freedom of speech always works both ways.
Since OP doesn't mention anything about having the government intervene and act against their classmates, I am unsure why you bring up freedom of speech. Unless you're one of those who thinks "freedom of speech" means "freedom from being called out for being a jerk..." The question is how to handle such comments from fellow students. Absolutely zero to do with the first amendment.
 
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I understand you guy's argument, and to a certain extent, I agree with you -

But maybe I was being a bit too tame my original post... I'm not questioning whether my classmates are racist... it's how to deal with them. My own "negative" biases have nothing to do with this.

I'm not gullible enough to believe that classmates saying the n-word + and related terms repeatedly (at parties, bars, pre-games... "jokingly"), constantly making disparaging comments about muslims, our medicaid population (these "people (i.e., blacks) shouldn't be having kids", "they should be euthanized", slave jokes, etc... is being "way too PC". The whole trump thing was just so you guys could get a (humorous) sense of what I am talking about.

Before I moved to Boston a few years ago, One of my friends warned me that it was the "South of the North" - so I'm just piggybacking off his quote.

These comments are annoying, and to be honest, downright disgusting. I'm ashamed I have to go to school with people who act like this. Dentistry, and the medical field are based on the doctor-patient relationship, and cultural competence is one of the IDEALS we are taught to strive for. However this school, and city make me feel like I just went back 40 years ago in time...

Edit - I'm considering bringing it up to the administration - but to be honest - what can they do? Expel 1/6 of the class?
If you see your classmates making these kind of comments at school or any professional settings, then absolutely report them. It is important that everyone feels comfortable and safe at the school; for faculty, patients, and students.

But if it is at parties, bars, pre-games... If it bothers you that much unfortunately you just need to cut these people away from your life. I am not saying it isn't important to be professional in your private life too, but really though at parties, bars, and pre-games (where people are intoxicated out of their minds?)... What YOU can immediately do to "deal with them" is to cut yourself away from them. Plain and simple. Out of sight, out of mind.

If you think that your classmates are truly uneducated, then sure asking for administration for an educational session can be helpful. But honestly you are dealing with adults. Adults who mostly made up their minds and have certain viewpoints. Give them some credit; they can't be that unaware of what they are saying (that's my opinion). Like I said, if they are doing this at school then someone needs to tell them to shut it.

And no, I really didn't get the whole trump joke. Seems it was more of an off-handed comment to discredit them by throwing darts at their political views. You throw in a whole paragraph about how they make racist remarks and then throw in that trump remark. It just seems like contriving red herring.
 
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I like @strep mutans idea to have a meeting with pitchforks left at the door. Keep it organized where everyone has a chance to speak uninterrupted. These people would likely not respond well to being spontaneously called out. They'd accuse you of being a social justice warrior and a member of the PC police and things would just disintegrate. Tell them that you can't change the way they think but in a professional environment, as well as when you're in public/whith classmates at all, you would much prefer for them to keep that to themselves. Point out that their peers come from all different backgrounds and they can't put them in that situation. Let them say their piece (no idea how they can justify what they're saying so that'd be interesting), and just clear the air. Don't single anybody out if you can avoid doing so. I bet it has a big negative impact on the vibe of the class and it's unacceptable for them to be doing this, but even with that said you need to proceed with caution and don't accuse them of being racist, even though they probably are. Leave judgement and speculation about their moral, however accurate, completely out of the conversation and focus instead on things that multiple people can corroborate came out of their mouths
I agree with all of this, except I wouldn't advise bringing up what specific people said. I think that leads to the defensiveness, feelings of being attacked, and resentment. I would instead recommend mentioning the specific phrases without pointing out who said what. They'll likely remember what they said, and that way they can reflect on their words/actions and wonder if they're the one being mentioned.

For SS, you sure sound like GGG. ;)
 
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Sounds similar to the group of *****s from Dalhousie's Dental Class of 2015. Go look up that case.

OP, I'm not going to sugarcoat this for you. You just need to come to terms with the fact that America is full of racists - just look at how DJ Trump's hate speech has earned him the frontrunner position in the Republican primary. My advice: Stay under the radar, focus on your studies, graduate, and get the hell away from those people as fast as you can. Once you're out, you can move to a place populated with more sane individuals like SF, Seattle, Portland, etc.

United States my @ss. I wish the racist States just separated from the sane ones.
 

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Sounds similar to the group of *****s from Dalhousie's Dental Class of 2015. Go look up that case.

OP, I'm not going to sugarcoat this for you. You just need to come to terms with the fact that America is full of racists - just look at how DJ Trump's hate speech has earned him the frontrunner position in the Republican primary. My advice: Stay under the radar, focus on your studies, graduate, and get the hell away from those people as fast as you can. Once you're out, you can move to a place populated with more sane individuals like SF, Seattle, Portland, etc.

United States my @ss. I wish the racist States just separated from the sane ones.
This.
 
Feb 5, 2016
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Ah, yes. All you incredibly tolerant beacons of integrity speaking against the evils of stereotyping while painting entire states as racist. You all are truly amazing. I'm proud to be in your company, and hope that one day you will accept me onto your glimmering soap box.

HAIL BERNIE SANDERS!
 
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racism is something that wont go away. In fact , it has always been here since the beginning of the humans(not just the US, but everywhere throughout the world). It has been less then 60 years since segregation( jim crow laws) has ended, so don't be surprised that racism lingers. Look at the bright side, Think how much people were comfortable being openly racist (1950s) compared to now (2016). Unfortunately racism will never go away and that is something we have to ignore, as now they're the minority.
 
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Ah, yes. All you incredibly tolerant beacons of integrity speaking against the evils of stereotyping while painting entire states as racist. You all are truly amazing. I'm proud to be in your company, and hope that one day you will accept me onto your glimmering soap box.

HAIL BERNIE SANDERS!
I appreciate the sarcasm and while I understand that you have a very valid point, there is no denying that particular states have a track record of racial discrimination. Am I saying that everyone residing in those states is a racist? No. However, it would be nice to have two separate Americas - one where racists can move to in order to avoid being with the "other", and one for people who would like to live in harmony with people of any race, religion, etc. Wishful thinking on my part..

Another piece of advice to the OP: Stay away from discussing or reading about religion and politics. It really is a can of worms and can be never ending. Use that time and effort to master the sciences. That is what will get you ahead.
 
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You are there for a purpose. Remember it and keep your focus on it.

Remember that your ways are strange to people from other cultures, just as theirs are to you. This may be the first time that many folks have been exposed to something other than the prevailing world view where they grew up. The best way to make a difference is to be a tolerant, open-minded person yourself, to set an example for people from less diverse backgrounds. If someone says something racist to you, don't be afraid to call it out, firmly but kindly.

"I don't like to refer to people of that ethnicity that way. I think it dehumanizes people to talk about them that way. If you'd like to continue this conversation with me, I'd ask that we use less offensive terms."

But don't feel that you need to go out of your way to set anyone else straight. You probably won't change any minds by going on the offensive, just as they aren't going to be able to convince you to think like them.
 

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Just the other day - literally in the dental school I heard a classmate whispering about "the ghetto blacks" [unsure if referring to people in our school, or elsewhere]. Although the way your classmate had spoken is not adequate, don't let that get to you.
Another one was telling a story about 'going into dorchester (a majority minority area) and almost getting robbed by a bunch of "spics". Dorchester is pretty ghetto tho....
A few others are seriously talking about how trump is the best thing to ever happen, and a large majority of people agreeing with them. Although I don't support Trump and there are some in my class that support Trump, everyone has their own political views.
Now - Boston itself is one of the most racially-insensitive cities in the US - I knew that coming here, but is this really normal, or are my classmates just insensitive pricks? I've heard similar stories from others in the classes above me, but it seems most people just sweep it under the rug...
Insensitive pricks are everywhere.
You can either 1) Report to the administration, get nothing done to those students and waste your time (assuming you don't have a solid proof) or 2) Accept the fact that there are pricks everywhere and just avoid those people in general.
You know what is the best part? You won't see them after you graduate. Just hang tight and get through d-school.
Goodluck on that amalgam restoration.
 
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Boston and Cambridge are full of (~75%) intolerant liberal wackos just like SF and you will enjoy it just fine. Don't worry these southern classmates will not harm your 'ghetto blacks' friends. The biggest threat to minorities nowadays aren't the KKK but the BBB. Just in Chicago alone this past two months there have been 100 people murdered. Guess how many are black on black and how many are white on minorities. Parts of Dorchester is pretty ghetto or else the Guardian Angels wouldn't be patrolling the area. Areas along Dorchester Ave are pretty safe now but two three blocks to either side it is pretty ghetto.
 
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OP, I'm not going to sugarcoat this for you. You just need to come to terms with the fact that America is full of racists - just look at how DJ Trump's hate speech has earned him the frontrunner position in the Republican primary.
If America was truly full of racists, Obama would never have gotten close to the white house, and things like affirmative action would not be in place, minority populations would not be booming, and so on...Did you forget about all that? Maybe you're the bigot.

I'm mixed race...and when I'm with one side, I hear them talk about the other. When I'm with the other side, they talk about the other too. Everyone is racist.

Either way though, you and everyone else should fall to your knees in gratitude to live in a place like America where there are laws and standards in place to give everyone a fair chance. Not perfect, but still better than other countries.

For victim mentality non-whites and those suffering from what I like to call "guilty white boy syndrome", I encourage you to visit the country my father fled from. go there and ask for things like affirmative action, equality for everyone regardless of religion, sexual orientation. The only thing you'll get is your throat cut.
 

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OP - I totally feel you.

Even judging by the commenters here, seems like people are offended by being called (or simply implied that they're) racists, rather than the actual IMPACT of racism.:confused: Commenters - let's try and focus on OP's issue instead.
(And please don't retort with that weak 'all lives matter' bullcrap.)

OP - I've reasoned it also as an unfortunate side-effect of going to a "professional"(?) school with majority bio/chem majors who haven't exposed themselves to upper-level courses in history/social sciences that inform them about the centuries-old legacy of racism that continues to do this day. You're completely right - how can I expect racist students to treat a patient, when they don't even respect their patients' humanity? It's a very small step, but they've already added sociology/psychology to the MCAT to test emotional intelligence - I wonder if the DAT will add those, as well.

Before going to the admins (which do I support btw), I hope you find solidarity with fellow students, too, so it's not just one voice. I know a lot of undergrads are pushing for diversity training and competence requirements, so that can be one step forward. (Not a solution by any means, but better than having ignorant a**holes stink up our profession.)

Best of luck, OP.
 

DoctaFauci

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I go to school in the Northeast, in a city with 3 dental schools

The school is amazing. The class size is large, but the faculty is great. It's not bad.

My only issue is... my classmates. A lot of them are from Florida, Texas, Georgia, the South - basically not anywhere near the north. Probably because the school is expensive, so if they couldn't get into their state school, they come here. Many of them hold less than spectacular views about minorities

Just the other day - literally in the dental school I heard a classmate whispering about "the ghetto blacks" [unsure if referring to people in our school, or elsewhere]. Another one was telling a story about 'going into dorchester (a majority minority area) and almost getting robbed by a bunch of "spics". A few others are seriously talking about how trump is the best thing to ever happen, and a large majority of people agreeing with them.

Now - Boston itself is one of the most racially-insensitive cities in the US - I knew that coming here, but is this really normal, or are my classmates just insensitive pricks? I've heard similar stories from others in the classes above me, but it seems most people just sweep it under the rug...
As a southerner moving to Boston for a residency, I'll be curious to observe the regionalism you're expressing. Southerners aren't any more racist than people from other regions of the country; try being a minority in the Bay Area for example. Look at the history of white flight and redlining in the North. People in Boston assumed I would have a distinct southern accent. Well I don't, and neither do most people I know from the the south unless they live in rural communities. I expect there's a level of expectancy or confirmation bias in your observations.

The unfortunate thing about dental school is that you're forced to be with a set group of peers for four years, and a lot of them invariably won't be the best of people. That's life. You know what? You'll have racist patients too. You going to complain on SDN about that as well?
 
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OP - I totally feel you.

Even judging by the commenters here, seems like people are offended by being called (or simply implied that they're) racists, rather than the actual IMPACT of racism.:confused: Commenters - let's try and focus on OP's issue instead.
(And please don't retort with that weak 'all lives matter' bullcrap.)

OP - I've reasoned it also as an unfortunate side-effect of going to a "professional"(?) school with majority bio/chem majors who haven't exposed themselves to upper-level courses in history/social sciences that inform them about the centuries-old legacy of racism that continues to do this day. You're completely right - how can I expect racist students to treat a patient, when they don't even respect their patients' humanity? It's a very small step, but they've already added sociology/psychology to the MCAT to test emotional intelligence - I wonder if the DAT will add those, as well.
So you don't have a semblance of an idea why others get upset when someone accuses them (or an entire population) of being terrible people? It's a good thing they don't have an emotional intelligence section on the DAT, because you'd bomb it fantastically.
 
Feb 5, 2016
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As a southerner moving to Boston for a residency, I'll be curious to observe the regionalism you're expressing. Southerners aren't any more racist than people from other regions of the country; try being a minority in the Bay Area for example. Look at the history of white flight and redlining in the North. People in Boston assumed I would have a distinct southern accent. Well I don't, and neither do most people I know from the the south unless they live in rural communities. I expect there's a level of expectancy or confirmation bias in your observations.

The unfortunate thing about dental school is that you're forced to be with a set group of peers for four years, and a lot of them invariably won't be the best of people. That's life. You know what? You'll have racist patients too. You going to complain on SDN about that as well?
No dude, the South and Boston are just terrible places and anyone who lives there is terrible. I can't believe they stereotype and generalize entire groups of people like they do. They're all just so bad.
 

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OP - I totally feel you.

Even judging by the commenters here, seems like people are offended by being called (or simply implied that they're) racists, rather than the actual IMPACT of racism.:confused: Commenters - let's try and focus on OP's issue instead.
(And please don't retort with that weak 'all lives matter' bullcrap.)

OP - I've reasoned it also as an unfortunate side-effect of going to a "professional"(?) school with majority bio/chem majors who haven't exposed themselves to upper-level courses in history/social sciences that inform them about the centuries-old legacy of racism that continues to do this day. You're completely right - how can I expect racist students to treat a patient, when they don't even respect their patients' humanity? It's a very small step, but they've already added sociology/psychology to the MCAT to test emotional intelligence - I wonder if the DAT will add those, as well.

Before going to the admins (which do I support btw), I hope you find solidarity with fellow students, too, so it's not just one voice. I know a lot of undergrads are pushing for diversity training and competence requirements, so that can be one step forward. (Not a solution by any means, but better than having ignorant a**holes stink up our profession.)

Best of luck, OP.
saying all lives matter is weak? explain
 
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Life lesson here.....

There's 330 MILLION or so people in the country. You're NEVER going to get everyone to agree with you. Heck many times put just 2 people in a room together and you can't even find agreement!! ;) That's just simply life. There's isn't, never has, and likely never will be a "Utopian" world where everyone gets along, all their possible needs are met, etc. It's been tried in various forms, and has failed!

When you're out of dental school and are practicing, get ready for it, some of your patients won't like you and will call you various things from "mean" to a "rip off artists" to a "hack" to a slew of other things at some point in your career. Get used to this simple fact of life that while YOUR view of something may not be the same as others, it might not mean that their point of view isn't valid from their perspective.

The only thing that you can truly control is your own actions. Just be the best person that you can (whatever that means to you). Try and be a good member of your community, and accept the fact that others won't see eye to eye with you, and probably can't be persuaded to see eye to eye with you. If you worry too much about things that you don't have any real control over, then all too often the end result is that you'll end up having a life that isn't nearly as rewarding as it could be
 
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As a southerner moving to Boston for a residency, I'll be curious to observe the regionalism you're expressing. Southerners aren't any more racist than people from other regions of the country; try being a minority in the Bay Area for example. Look at the history of white flight and redlining in the North. People in Boston assumed I would have a distinct southern accent. Well I don't, and neither do most people I know from the the south unless they live in rural communities. I expect there's a level of expectancy or confirmation bias in your observations.

The unfortunate thing about dental school is that you're forced to be with a set group of peers for four years, and a lot of them invariably won't be the best of people. That's life. You know what? You'll have racist patients too. You going to complain on SDN about that as well?
Really? So the fact that huge swaths of the South refused to grant black people equal rights and citizenship even as recently as the 1970's had absolutely no impact on their overall stance towards minority groups? Come on, let's be honest here. Not everyone in the South is racist. Fact. Not everyone in the North is racist. Also fact. Taken as a whole, people in the South tend to be more racist than people in the North in the same way that people in the South were more likely to own slaves or uphold legislation which segregated blacks from whites. Were there Jim Crow laws present in the North? How about the 5/3 vote? I don't need to tell you, click here, here, or here for more.

That said, there are still pockets of racism in the North. That John Pisone guy who got fired from his job for his racist tirade on camera was from Pennsylvania, not Alabama.

So you don't have a semblance of an idea why others get upset when someone accuses them (or an entire population) of being terrible people? It's a good thing they don't have an emotional intelligence section on the DAT, because you'd bomb it fantastically.
I suppose we shouldn't say that slavery existed in the South since not *all* Southerners were slave owners... But then, why did the South and the North fight a Civil War, and how did they determine sides if one was not sympathetic with one cause and the other side another cause?

This is racist? (and enough to be alarmed about?)
Either I am racist too or you're just way too PC
Yes. Calling people spics is racist. There is a deliberate reason they are calling them spics and it is racially motivated.
Life lesson here.....

There's 330 MILLION or so people in the country. You're NEVER going to get everyone to agree with you. Heck many times put just 2 people in a room together and you can't even find agreement!! ;) That's just simply life. There's isn't, never has, and likely never will be a "Utopian" world where everyone gets along, all their possible needs are met, etc. It's been tried in various forms, and has failed!

When you're out of dental school and are practicing, get ready for it, some of your patients won't like you and will call you various things from "mean" to a "rip off artists" to a "hack" to a slew of other things at some point in your career. Get used to this simple fact of life that while YOUR view of something may not be the same as others, it might not mean that their point of view isn't valid from their perspective.

The only thing that you can truly control is your own actions. Just be the best person that you can (whatever that means to you). Try and be a good member of your community, and accept the fact that others won't see eye to eye with you, and probably can't be persuaded to see eye to eye with you. If you worry too much about things that you don't have any real control over, then all too often the end result is that you'll end up having a life that isn't nearly as rewarding as it could be
Minority dentists in areas with a high proportion of bigots have the added burden of being called racial slurs in addition to all of those things you mentioned. Call me a hack, see if I care. I chose this profession. I did not choose the color of my skin (I say this as a white guy).
 
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Cello

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I understand you guy's argument, and to a certain extent, I agree with you -

But maybe I was being a bit too tame my original post... I'm not questioning whether my classmates are racist... it's how to deal with them. My own "negative" biases have nothing to do with this.

I'm not gullible enough to believe that classmates saying the n-word + and related terms repeatedly (at parties, bars, pre-games... "jokingly"), constantly making disparaging comments about muslims, our medicaid population (these "people (i.e., blacks) shouldn't be having kids", "they should be euthanized", slave jokes, etc... is being "way too PC". The whole trump thing was just so you guys could get a (humorous) sense of what I am talking about.

Before I moved to Boston a few years ago, One of my friends warned me that it was the "South of the North" - so I'm just piggybacking off his quote.

These comments are annoying, and to be honest, downright disgusting. I'm ashamed I have to go to school with people who act like this. Dentistry, and the medical field are based on the doctor-patient relationship, and cultural competence is one of the IDEALS we are taught to strive for. However this school, and city make me feel like I just went back 40 years ago in time...

Edit - I'm considering bringing it up to the administration - but to be honest - what can they do? Expel 1/6 of the class?
Don't be surprised if the administration does nothing about it. Administrators often take a wait and see approach because making the 'right' decision is often illusive and difficult. This has cost the University of Missouri dearly in recent months, but it usually works to an administration's advantage to simply allow things to work themselves out.

Unfortunately, one of the most difficult things we will ever do as human beings is to stand up for what is 'right'. A task made even more difficult by the fact that almost everyone, bigots included, thinks that they are right. It is too easy to stand aside while the bully beats up the schoolyard victim, or to simply gasp at the man who slapped his wife across the face. Doing something is risky, difficult, and not always clear. Coming here to discuss it 'anonymously' is always a good idea because you get several different points of view.

I don't think anyone here can tell you what you should do, because that is entirely up to you. As I said before, I would be surprised if the administration does anything unless there is hard evidence and particularly egregious behavior which forces them into action. This is likely a persistent problem, and one which has likely been brought to their attention before.

You will have to decide for yourself whether it is worth it to you to stand up for what you believe in, or if you would rather not confront these people. Personally, if I overhear people having a racist conversation or making bigoted remarks I don't say anything unless I am a part of the conversation. I won't tolerate bigotry from malicious people bent upon tearing down other people for the color of their skin, their religion, etc. if they are engaging me in conversation. That said, I can also take a joke, and I have been known to laugh at jokes that were in very poor taste because I personally believed that the person saying it did so without malicious intent. That is entirely a judgement call, and I am sure that there are people out there more 'PC' than I who would accuse me of my own form of bigotry.

Life is 100% about choices, and the choices you make determine the kind of person you are. If it bothers you enough, then say something. If you do decide to approach them about their behavior, I advise you to do so as graciously and as professionally as you can possibly manage knowing that the other person may not reciprocate. Otherwise, ignore the comments and have as little contact with the offenders as possible.
 

Rambunctious

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Its like having diabetes and going to a cancer rally and saying all diseases matter
That comparison is a reach. Regardless of what race, ethnicity, and religion you are, every human life matters the same. Blacks aren't more important than whites and vice versa. Saying black lives matter is further feeding into this racial segregation dilemma.
 

Cello

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That comparison is a reach. Regardless of what race, ethnicity, and religion you are, every human life matters the same. Blacks aren't more important than whites and vice versa. Saying black lives matter is further feeding into this racial segregation dilemma.
This entirely misses the point of the black lives matter movement. Black victims of crime are far more often ignored by the news media than Caucasians, and they are significantly more likely to be victims of police brutality. For years black people have complained of a disparity in the way they are treated by the police, and only recently with the modern abundance of camera phones has society witnessed first-hand that they were not exaggerating. The point of BLM is to bring attention to black victims of crime and violence who are more likely to be dismissed and ignored by mainstream society which preferentially covers Caucasian victims of violent crime.
 

Daurang

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They already control the executive branch of government and the Department of Justice. Why can't they just help themselves? How hard is it and isn't it easier for the POTUS and the DOJ to educate them all to raise their arms and obey the police orders? I was raised in the hood with them and have had cops pointed guns at me just like them. I simply raised my arms and followed officers' order... and lived to tell you about it. I guarantee from experience these officers might be jerks but they're not out there looking to abuse people for fun. BLM can save thousands more lives by solving black on black violence/attitude if it really matters.
 
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Jalcalde

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Its like having diabetes and going to a cancer rally and saying all diseases matter
Actually it's more like going to a cancer rally and saying my specific type of cancer is more important than any other cancer. Your comparison is incorrect. Diabetes and Cancer are 2 completely separate things.. race is minor difference in the SAME thing.. ie - being a person.
 
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Cello

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Actually it's more like going to a cancer rally and saying my specific type of cancer is more important than any other cancer. Your comparison is incorrect. Diabetes and Cancer are 2 completely separate things.. race is minor difference in the SAME thing.. ie - being a person.
I can run down any busy city street in a hoodie without being stopped by the police. Black men do not have that luxury. I can walk into just about any job interview without wondering what role the color of my skin might play on my getting hired. Race is only a minor difference to those of us who have the luxury not to be confronted with it on a daily basis.


They already control the executive branch of government and the Department of Justice. Why can't they just help themselves? How hard is it and isn't it easier for the POTUS and the DOJ to educate them all to raise their arms and obey the police orders? I was raised in the hood with them and have had cops pointed guns at me just like them. I simply raised my arms and followed officers' order... and lived to tell you about it. I guarantee from experience these officers might be jerks but they're not out there looking to abuse people for fun. BLM can save thousands more lives by solving black on black violence/attitude if it really matters.
Failure to obey orders does not mean that you should be shot and killed. Running away from a police officer does not entitle them to shoot you in the back and kill you, later claiming that they felt that their life was in danger as you were unarmed and running away.

Besides, how do you explain this? A black couple was unconscious in their car before being shot and killed by police officers.

A big part of the problem in this country is the fact that police departments take a shoot first, ask questions later approach to policing. This man is largely responsible for that: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/u...first-and-he-will-answer-questions-later.html

The article begins:

"WASHINGTON — The shooting looked bad. But that is when the professor is at his best. A black motorist, pulled to the side of the road for a turn-signal violation, had stuffed his hand into his pocket. The white officer yelled for him to take it out. When the driver started to comply, the officer shot him dead.

The driver was unarmed."

Apparently, complying with orders is no guarantee of your safety either.
 
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Jalcalde

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I can run down any busy city street in a hoodie without being stopped by the police. Black men do not have that luxury. I can walk into just about any job interview without wondering what role the color of my skin might play on my getting hired. Race is only a minor difference to those of us who have the luxury not to be confronted with it on a daily basis.

Regardless of what you just said (which I do not agree with and have seen plenty of black men running around in my city and none of them get pulled over by police) your comment had nothing to do with my response to what I was responding to. I said the above analogy about the "black lives matter" vs "all lives matter" and the comparison made about it was incorrect. And it is.
 
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Faux

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Regardless of what you just said (which I do not agree with and have seen plenty of black men running around in my city and none of them get pulled over by police) your comment had nothing to do with my response to what I was responding to. I said the above analogy about the "black lives matter" vs "all lives matter" and the comparison made about it was incorrect. And it is.
That pretty ignorant to say. I agree with Cello, its a minor difference to you because you don't have those worries. I don't even have those worries, but I acknowledge their unjust difficulties in life.
 

stag123

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Regardless of what you just said (which I do not agree with and have seen plenty of black men running around in my city and none of them get pulled over by police) your comment had nothing to do with my response to what I was responding to. I said the above analogy about the "black lives matter" vs "all lives matter" and the comparison made about it was incorrect. And it is.
It drive me nuts when people do this. Congratulations that you haven't personally seen this or it's never been done to you. Unfortunately, you eyes don't make up the rest of this country. @Cello pointed out several cases that disagrees with your eyes and their are MANY others.

fun fact: I'm mixed (but I look black) and in my southern semi rural town, I would 100% get pulled over if I was walking with a hoodie (especially if it's dark outside, which is annoying cause it literally gets dark by 5pm here).

Just because you live life in a different perspective doesn't mean the rest of world is same. Jesus. I understand that my town might be different from your city (I hope God it is), but at least I understand that different situation can happen and I'm not completely oblivious to it.

Sorry rant over. I had a tough day because something similar happen to me recently.
 

Rambunctious

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This entirely misses the point of the black lives matter movement. Black victims of crime are far more often ignored by the news media than Caucasians, and they are significantly more likely to be victims of police brutality. For years black people have complained of a disparity in the way they are treated by the police, and only recently with the modern abundance of camera phones has society witnessed first-hand that they were not exaggerating. The point of BLM is to bring attention to black victims of crime and violence who are more likely to be dismissed and ignored by mainstream society which preferentially covers Caucasian victims of violent crime.
You know what's often "ignored by the news"? That the majority of black murders are done by other BLACKS! Black people are tremendously more likely to be killed by another black vs a cop. It's just amazing to me that this fact is straight ignored by you "black lives matter" sympathizers.
 
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stag123

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Utter BS. You know what's often "ignored by the news"? That the majority of black murders are done by other BLACKS! Black people are tremendously more likely to be killed by another black vs a cop. It's just amazing to me that this fact is straight ignored by you "black lives matter" sympathizers.
Nobody is denying black on black crime doesn't happen. We know it happens. Black communities are not oblivious to that (just because you get your mainstream information from CNN/FOX I can assure you black people are not oblivious to it). White on white crime happens, hispanic and hispanic crimes happen etc. But saying "Utter BS" to what the actually BLM movement stands for.... just shows how ignorant you are. The movement is NOT saying other lives don't. BLM was created to shed light on the police brutality against black people. Nobody is ignoring anything, people want to shed light on this issue, they are allowed to do that. Get over yourself.
 
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dyesht

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Nobody is denying black on black crime doesn't happen. We know it happens. Black communities are not oblivious to that (just because you get your mainstream information from CNN/FOX I can assure you black people are not oblivious to it). White on white crime happens, hispanic and hispanic crimes happen etc. But saying "Utter BS" to what the actually BLM movement stands for.... just shows how ignorant you are. The movement is NOT saying other lives don't. BLM was created to shed light on the police brutality against black people. Nobody is ignoring anything, people want to shed light on this issue, they are allowed to do that. Get over yourself.
Police brutality does exist, but is extremely rare. The majority of these videos surfacing the web of police "brutality" are really not. Someone commits a crime, doesn't comply to surrender, then gets forced to is not brutality.
 
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stag123

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Police brutality does exist, but is extremely rare. The majority of these videos surfacing the web of police "brutality" are really not. Someone commits a crime, doesn't comply to surrender, then gets forced to is not brutality.
Please go read Cello post above. "extremely rare" ..... okay.... how about it shouldn't happen at all? I will quote Cello "Apparently, complying with orders is no guarantee of your safety either."
 
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Jalcalde

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Please go read Cello post above. "extremely rare" ..... okay.... how about it shouldn't happen at all? I will quote Cello "Apparently, complying with orders is no guarantee of your safety either."
Stag I hate to break it to you... but that will never happen... people are people... there will always be bad ones and always be good ones. The best you could hope for is to keep it to a minimum, and it is kept to a minimum...sure it could be a little lower.. but again as rambunctious said there is a more pressing and common issue facing the black community than police brutality. It is just easier to point fingers at others and smaller issues instead of focusing on the bigger issue from within. And I could post instances of people getting struck by lightning... probably means no one should go outside either as you could get struck by lightning... This technological age really warps people's perspective into thinking this crap happens all the time... yes people complying with police orders are just getting killed left and right cause you saw a video about it...
 

Cello

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Stag I hate to break it to you... but that will never happen... people are people... there will always be bad ones and always be good ones. The best you could hope for is to keep it to a minimum, and it is kept to a minimum...sure it could be a little lower.. but again as rambunctious said there is a more pressing and common issue facing the black community than police brutality. It is just easier to point fingers at others and smaller issues instead of focusing on the bigger issue from within. And I could post instances of people getting struck by lightning... probably means no one should go outside either as you could get struck by lightning... This technological age really warps people's perspective into thinking this crap happens all the time... yes people complying with police orders are just getting killed left and right cause you saw a video about it...
The government's concern ought to be with how it handles people of color. The media's concern ought to be how it handles people of color. The colored community's concern ought to be with how they treat themselves. To suggest that black people are responsible for what the police do, and what the media does, is preposterous. Each one is responsible for their behavior and their interactions with the black community, including black people themselves.

The way the police interact with the black community has much to do with how the community behaves. A community which does not trust the police will not report crimes to them. A community which is afraid of the police will not seek help from them. A community which has witnessed police officers commit crimes will not trust them. Those communities, composed of the most impoverished and vulnerable citizens, are left defenseless to the purveyors of violence and crime in their communities because they have no recourse.

If you want an excellent idea of what plagues inner-city black communities, I highly recommend that you see one of the greatest TV dramas of all time: HBO's The Wire.

The problem with statements about black on black violence is that it makes the rash assumption that black people are inherently violent because they are black. Nevermind that black people are more likely to be poor, to have less educational opportunities thanks to broken school systems, and they are more likely to grow up in broken communities. Those things couldn't possibly be the root of the violence and crime, no it must just be because they are black...

You know what's often "ignored by the news"? That the majority of black murders are done by other BLACKS! Black people are tremendously more likely to be killed by another black vs a cop. It's just amazing to me that this fact is straight ignored by you "black lives matter" sympathizers.
Irrelevant. Pointing out statistics of black on black violence is a red herring. The police can still be disproportionately arresting blacks for crimes they let Caucasians go for, and they can still be brutalizing blacks at higher rates no matter the black on black violent crime statistics.
 
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Cello

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Police brutality does exist, but is extremely rare. The majority of these videos surfacing the web of police "brutality" are really not. Someone commits a crime, doesn't comply to surrender, then gets forced to is not brutality.
Like when John Crawford III was shot and killed in a Walmart because he was carrying a BB gun he had picked off of the shelf to purchase at the store before he was reported by a customer (who later recanted his statements) to have been pointing the BB gun at other customers and children? Officers arriving on the scene said that Crawford 'refused to comply with orders to drop the toy BB gun' so they shot him multiple times and killed him. The officers were not indicted. Watch the video and tell me that he didn't drop the gun on the ground.

Or when Walter Scott of South Carolina was shot in the back and killed as he was fleeing from a simple traffic stop? The officer then planted a gun on the victim, unaware that he was being filmed by a citizen with a cellphone. It makes you wonder how often this kind of thing happens when there are no cameras around.

How about Tamir Rice, the 12-year old who was shot and killed by officers who approached and killed him within 2 seconds of exiting their vehicle? The officers received no indictments. Imagine for just a moment if this had been a white child these officers had shot and killed. Well, in my home state of Utah, officers shot and killed a 16-year old Caucasian girl named Danielle Willard. The officer was fired, though the manslaughter charges were dropped. But in the cases of black victims of police violence, officers are rarely fired, and often get a paid vacation (administrative leave) until the media firestorm blows over. That means that the victim's friends and family are liable to see that same officer policing their community when they are back on the street.

How about Laquan McDonald who was shot 16 times in 13 seconds even though the first officer on the scene said he saw no justification for use of lethal force? No indictments there either. How is an officer ever justified in emptying their clip into someone who is lying dead on the ground?
 
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