Dear class of 2023

[8turkeys]

This fall you are planning on starting pharmacy school. I was in your shoes 3 years ago and I am now in my p4 year. The stories are true and you should be informed about what you are going into. New grads are now starting at 90k/year if you get full time hours. When I entered it was about $115k. That's right, in just 3 years, 25k/year. At this rate be prepared for 50-60k/year by the time you graduate if you go forward with pharmacy school this fall. The stories about no jobs are true. If you are fortunate to get a job, be prepared for 20-30 hours a week. So like 50k/year. I have friends working at a coffee shop trying to make extra money because they cant afford their loans and only get part time prn hours. Pharmacy is not what it used to be. Pharmacies are going out of business left and right with more and more graduates every year. This is a dying profession. Consider this carefully. I was ignorant when I entered and wish I listened to the stories.

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[AM77]

I never thought that I would live to see pharmacist wages dip below $50/hour. Not to mention $200,000+ of student loan debt! The golden years of pharmacy are over. The pharmacist shortage is a myth. All those greedy new schools are opening up just to milk all the new students. They send recruiters to college campuses just to lie about the reality of the profession. Walmart is planning to lay off up to 40% of their pharmacists. CVS and Walgreens have been closing down hundreds of stories.

 

[rxdawg21]

This fall you are planning on starting pharmacy school. I was in your shoes 3 years ago and I am now in my p4 year. The stories are true and you should be informed about what you are going into. New grads are now starting at 90k/year if you get full time hours. When I entered it was about $115k. That's right, in just 3 years, 25k/year. At this rate be prepared for 50-60k/year by the time you graduate if you go forward with pharmacy school this fall. The stories about no jobs are true. If you are fortunate to get a job, be prepared for 20-30 hours a week. So like 50k/year. I have friends working at a coffee shop trying to make extra money because they cant afford their loans and only get part time prn hours. Pharmacy is not what it used to be. Pharmacies are going out of business left and right with more and more graduates every year. This is a dying profession. Consider this carefully. I was ignorant when I entered and wish I listened to the stories.

I truly don’t know why anyone would spend this type of money for pharmacy school. 200k in loans has never been really worth it and it is clear now and has been for several years of the serious problem pharmacy is in.


I have a friend on admissions at a pharmacy school that has been around for decades and they can hardly fill there classes with people that should never be applying in the first place

 

[Saiyo]

oh yuck. Imagine what it would be like for the class of 2025...2030? With so many classes that have graduated and the sparse job market, where is everyone going to work?? There are only so many hospitals and retail stores, and not many places are expanding.

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

oh yuck. Imagine what it would be like for the class of 2025...2030? With so many classes that have graduated and the sparse job market, where is everyone going to work?? There are only so many hospitals and retail stores, and not many places are expanding.

I have already had several lyft drivers drive me who were admittedly pharmacists by training and are “actively looking for roles and are using this as a temporary gig to make some income.” While I can sympathize with them, I can’t help but to think that these gigs will actually be a permanent thing for the majority of pharmacists in the future because you become more and more unmarketable each day that you are not employed as a pharmacist.

Who would take a chance on hiring a pharmacist with “two years of work experience” as a lyft driver? I suppose the transferrable skill/spin here might be that you have experience with “customer service?”

 

[percyeye]

I was curious and just looked up job postings. My Midwest state has 2 pharmacy schools totaling 200 students graduating each year. , or

I looked up jobs in the top 3 biggest towns where most young people want to live.
Biggest town/city- 1 Full time Job and 1 part time job
2nd biggest- 2 Full time, 1 part time
3rd biggest -1 Full time, 1 part time

Do students not look this stuff up, or does 150 people plan on working in rural America?

 

[AM77]

You’re considered lucky if you can even land a job in a rural area. Even the jobs in the Central Valley of California are drying up.

 

[Saiyo]

Who would take a chance on hiring a pharmacist with “two years of work experience” as a lyft driver? I suppose the transferrable skill/spin here might be that you have experience with “customer service?”

Yeahhh no. It's common sense you gotta get that first job or you'll eventually not be able to get any job, which is why my highest recommendation to new grads is to take a job, any job, for that initial resume bullet. If you were hiring would you take a new grad or a grad that graduated 2 years ago but hasn't been able to find a job?

That's why people who take a year off or travel the world after graduating are kind of setting themselves up for a rough time. I haven't had a lyft driver who was a pharmacist without a job yet, but I feel bad just thinking about it.

 

[Lubeckd]

I have already had several lyft drivers drive me who were admittedly pharmacists by training and are “actively looking for roles and are using this as a temporary gig to make some income.” While I can sympathize with them, I can’t help but to think that these gigs will actually be a permanent thing for the majority of pharmacists in the future because you become more and more unmarketable each day that you are not employed as a pharmacist.

Who would take a chance on hiring a pharmacist with “two years of work experience” as a lyft driver? I suppose the transferrable skill/spin here might be that you have experience with “customer service?”

what city is this?

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

what city is this?

Ironically, NYC.

 

[Lubeckd]

Ironically, NYC.

omg.... maybe it could be my classmates. One lady had to beg me to help her find a job. Most dont even have pharmacy experience upon graduating. It also could be the classes after me.

 

[Lubeckd]

Im surprised touro college on probation didnt disappear yet,

 

[Pharmacy is a Scam]

omg.... maybe it could be my classmates. One lady had to beg me to help her find a job. Most dont even have pharmacy experience upon graduating. It also could be the classes after me.

How awkward would it be if you called a lyft and your former classmate picked you up?

For this reason I can see many new grads “not doing anything” after graduation and using excuses such as “I wanted to take a vacation before looking for a job” or “I am still studying for boards” to save face.

 

[APN-59 rph]

Is the US Military commissioning PharmD's?

 

[deleted562805]

This fall you are planning on starting pharmacy school. I was in your shoes 3 years ago and I am now in my p4 year. The stories are true and you should be informed about what you are going into. New grads are now starting at 90k/year if you get full time hours. When I entered it was about $115k. That's right, in just 3 years, 25k/year. At this rate be prepared for 50-60k/year by the time you graduate if you go forward with pharmacy school this fall. The stories about no jobs are true. If you are fortunate to get a job, be prepared for 20-30 hours a week. So like 50k/year. I have friends working at a coffee shop trying to make extra money because they cant afford their loans and only get part time prn hours. Pharmacy is not what it used to be. Pharmacies are going out of business left and right with more and more graduates every year. This is a dying profession. Consider this carefully. I was ignorant when I entered and wish I listened to the stories.

I will add to this. If you guys ( class 2023) choose not to do retail and pursue a residency. Competition is tough but you have to stand your self apart from your peers. Meaning Rho Chi plus clinical project. Have to pursue PGY-2 in this market= too many PGY-1s. Also, remember only 60% of applicants match to respective programs. and afterwards, you have to get certified as BCPS just to keep your job. the days of going into a hospital without a residency are coming to an end. Hospitals are squeezing out or trying to get rid of 3rd-night shift pharmacists without a residency by making them work longer hours

 

[projektreverb]

YoU hAvE tO bE rHo ChI tO gEt ReSiDeNcY

Bill o’ goods my friends. Know plenty of people who were nowhere near Rho Chi who matched. Know Rho Chi people who didn’t match. Just because you’re smart on paper doesn’t mean you can parler your way into a spot.

 

[greenteapanacea]

I'm a nightshift pharmacist hired right out of school by the place I interned at. Several of my classmates also got hospital jobs (per diem/full time/etc) Also, lots of non-Rho Chi people matched...

 

[AM77]

Fred’s Pharmacy just announced that they’re planning to close another 129 stores.

 

[DocConk]

Pharmacists not being able to get jobs seems to currently be more of an issue in metro areas. Seems like the pharmacist job market in rural areas is currently being spared of this struggle. Definitely expect this more metro issue to creep into rural areas as each year passes, though. Way more pharmacists graduating than those retiring, and not a lot of new pharmacy jobs being created, if any

 

[Lubeckd]

Pharmacists not being able to get jobs seems to currently be more of an issue in metro areas. Seems like the pharmacist job market in rural areas is currently being spared of this struggle. Definitely expect this more metro issue to creep into rural areas as each year passes, though. Way more pharmacists graduating than those retiring, and not a lot of new pharmacy jobs being created, if any

maybe this healthcare bubble will burst will reimbursement being less and less. CVS is also moving into the Doctor business

 

[CaptainPicard]

Pharmacists not being able to get jobs seems to currently be more of an issue in metro areas. Seems like the pharmacist job market in rural areas is currently being spared of this struggle. Definitely expect this more metro issue to creep into rural areas as each year passes, though. Way more pharmacists graduating than those retiring, and not a lot of new pharmacy jobs being created, if any

Incorrect. Rural areas are saturated too

 

[DocConk]

Incorrect. Rural areas are saturated too

Is there any room for optimism?

 

[projektreverb]

Is there any room for optimism?

No. Beatings will continue until morale improves.

 

[DocConk]

Is there hope for more pharmacists to enter the pharmaceutical industry as consultants, etc? Or does the pharmacist skillset not have much of a role in pharmaceutical industry?

 

[CaptainPicard]

Is there any room for optimism?

Optimism doesn't change reality, and all the misguided optimism here encourages people to pursue a career in which they probably will have great difficulty finding a job

 

[Lubeckd]

Is there hope for more pharmacists to enter the pharmaceutical industry as consultants, etc? Or does the pharmacist skillset not have much of a role in pharmaceutical industry?

research and sales yes. Its like being a Ph.D. Research scientist positions?

 

[DIPEA]

research and sales yes. Its like being a Ph.D. Research scientist positions?

PharmD curriculum hardly emphasized in research at all.
most went in for medical affairs like drug information and pharmacovigilance. some in regulatory, some in clinical research.

 

[Lubeckd]

PharmD curriculum hardly emphasized in research at all.
most went in for medical affairs like drug information and pharmacovigilance. some in regulatory, some in clinical research.

There are some instances where a PharmD that has a good research background get into research
https://cheekyscientist.com/phds-stop-applying-postdocs-start-applying-research-scientist-positions/
Most research scientist position require masters at least and medical background

 

[Lubeckd]

Earn an Advanced Degree
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, most clinical research scientist positions require either an advanced degree in the biological sciences or a medical degree. Graduate degree programs in biochemistry, cellular and molecular biology, microbiology, or neuroscience often satisfy this requirement. However, some universities offer master's degree programs in clinical research. Students in these programs learn about research procedures, scholarly publication practices, biostatistics, professional ethics, and clinical trial practices. Alternatively, obtaining a Medical Doctor (M.D.) or nursing degree may qualify individuals to work in the field.

How to Become a Clinical Research Scientist: Career Roadmap

Individuals searching for <u> How to Become a Clinical Research Scientist: Career Roadmap </u> found the links, articles, and information on this page helpful.

study.com

 

[Lubeckd]

https://cheekyscientist.com/why-a-postdoctoral-researcher-position-pays-less-than-a-librarian-salary/

I think this site especially is pushing people towards industry instead of academia. A lot of trashing about academia

 

[DIPEA]

There are some instances where a PharmD that has a good research background get into research
https://cheekyscientist.com/phds-stop-applying-postdocs-start-applying-research-scientist-positions/
Most research scientist position require masters at least and medical background

PhD programs, supervisors and research area must be chosen very very carefully. we are facing a glut of PhDs in biomedical sciences too, far worse than the pharmacists.
PhDs in molecular biology and related bench research area face grim job prospects after grads. On the other hand, PhDs in biostats, systems biology, pharmaceutical science (especially formulations and PKPD/PBPK modeling) fare much much better in terms of jobs and offers.

 

[Lubeckd]

I also wonder what do research with the PharmD, clinical trails and placebo?

 

[Lubeckd]

PhD programs, supervisors and research area must be chosen very very carefully. we are facing a glut of PhDs in biomedical sciences too, far worse than the pharmacists.
PhDs in molecular biology and related bench research area face grim job prospects after grads. On the other hand, PhDs in biostats, systems biology, pharmaceutical science (especially formulations and PKPD/PBPK modeling) fare much much better in terms of jobs and offers.

systems biology is biology with coding isnt it?

 

[DIPEA]

Earn an Advanced Degree
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, most clinical research scientist positions require either an advanced degree in the biological sciences or a medical degree. Graduate degree programs in biochemistry, cellular and molecular biology, microbiology, or neuroscience often satisfy this requirement. However, some universities offer master's degree programs in clinical research. Students in these programs learn about research procedures, scholarly publication practices, biostatistics, professional ethics, and clinical trial practices. Alternatively, obtaining a Medical Doctor (M.D.) or nursing degree may qualify individuals to work in the field.

How to Become a Clinical Research Scientist: Career Roadmap

Individuals searching for <u> How to Become a Clinical Research Scientist: Career Roadmap </u> found the links, articles, and information on this page helpful.

study.com

That was actually my main motivation quitting my job to go back to school for pharmacy 3 years ago. clinical scientists seem to get much more attention than bench scientists on the R&D side.

 

[DIPEA]

systems biology is biology with coding isnt it?

yup! that's essentially modeling with biological applications. very similar to pkpd modeling

 

[Lubeckd]

Sorry I wont know too much about research. Cant say thats a area Im interested in. Im just interested in making money lol. Cant follow your posts there ahahah. never got a opp to do research. I would say I have a set of friends in tech/blockchain, finance/real estate and startup industry more and surprising a Venture captialist. You are the sum of your friends afterall

 

[Lubeckd]

yup! that's essentially modeling with biological applications. very similar to pkpd modeling

ahahah I only know cause there is a girl Im kind of seeing who is in it doing stem cell research.

 

[Lubeckd]

maybe pharmd deal with more clinical trials and placebo. No idea

 

[DIPEA]

maybe pharmd deal with more clinical trials and placebo. No idea

actually pharma hires a LOT of data scientists at various departments, even R&D.
I did a quick job search on indeed and linkedin early this year, those big brand names have wayyy more data type positions than other scientist or sales jobs combined.
So I guess screw industrial fellowships. it probably pays better and has much better flexibility and job security for data scientists than pharmds with fellowships.

 

[Lubeckd]

actually pharma hires a LOT of data scientists at various departments, even R&D.
I did a quick job search on indeed and linkedin early this year, those big brand names have wayyy more data type positions than other scientist or sales jobs combined.
So I guess screw industrial fellowships. it probably pays better and has much better flexibility and job security for data scientists than pharmds with fellowships.

lol at this point its easier to break into hospital and industry as a data scientist than as a pharmacist .

 

[Lubeckd]

and even in the retail setting, as least you dont get treated badly like the pharmacists. No breaks!

 

[DIPEA]

lol at this point its easier to break into hospital and industry as a data scientist than as a pharmacist .

yup, it is actually (maybe a bit sadly) very true.

 

[Lubeckd]

yup, it is actually (maybe a bit sadly) very true.

and the schools always makes us praises hospitals lol. Some kind of unicorn job when it will be effortless in other occupations, Im dying right now.

 

[DIPEA]

and even in the retail setting, as least you dont get treated badly like the pharmacists. No breaks!

My university affiliated hospital has 5:1 job openings ratio for data analysts (yes, just those who only manipulates and cleans dirty data, do some statistical tests and do some reporting, no ML no NLP no Prediction and other fancy stuff etc) gets paid at least on-par if not more, than pharmacists with residencies.
I mean, this is paradoxical and getting a bit ridiculous.

 

[Lubeckd]

My university affiliated hospital has 5:1 job openings ratio for data analysts (yes, just those who only manipulates and cleans dirty data, do some statistical tests and do some reporting, no ML no NLP no Prediction and other fancy stuff etc) gets paid at least on-par if not more, than pharmacists with residencies.
I mean, this is paradoxical and getting a bit ridiculous.

Im about 80 percent done with the data analyst course on datacamp, almost going to earn my cerf. Data Science only 35 percent in. Anyways the above post are for people who are interested in industry and research. Im not... But there are avenues people can do with a side gig besides this main job. Well cant complain , I like easy jobs lol.

 

[Lubeckd]

I worked in hospital pharmacy and retail. Hospital... a lot of office politics and only hiring night shifts and temps. Yeah I rather not enter into the hospital as a Pharmacist again.

 

[DIPEA]

Im about 80 percent done with the data analyst course on datacamp, almost going to earn my cerf. Data Science only 35 percent in. Anyways the above post are for people who are interested in industry and research. Im not... But there are avenues people can do with a side gig besides this main job. Well cant complain , I like easy jobs lol.

I completed the whole data camp data scientist track with R by late 2017 I think. Back then I only knew some basic R, nothing else. It was tough to go through everything, and I took a lot of notes and learned a lot from it.

 

[Lubeckd]

I completed the whole data camp data scientist track with R by late 2017 I think. Back then I only knew some basic R, nothing else. It was tough to go through everything, and I took a lot of notes and learned a lot from it.

Im on the python track. Actually datacamp is useful because it is does what the industry does. Im always looking for new courses to complete up there. Always new courses coming out. I guess industries change all the time.

 

[Lubeckd]

just keep practicing with it. I need to complete some projects soon once I finish the course. I know R, but not much python, so Im using the Python track right now. Ill probably do full stacks on code academy and blockchains if I ever get curious enough

 

[DIPEA]

Im on the python track. Actually datacamp is useful because it is does what the industry does. Im always looking for new courses to complete up there. Always new courses coming out. I guess industries change all the time.

for python hands-on, i would recommend dataquest instead. but depending on where you set the bar for yourself, it may or may not be enough. i learned more in one week doing weekly assignment for GT on topics like linear optimization using pulp than 2 weeks studying all by myself doing guided projects on dataquest.