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ParkMD

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How are you all doing this application cycle and where have you been accepted so far???
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Paging UCDavisisOK, err... PilSeungKorea, err... UCLAKoreanDude...
 
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what a racial thread.....:thumbdown:
 
BigMDT said:
what a racial thread.....:thumbdown:
Click to expand...

seriously BIG MDT. I find that these threads relieve stress, because it allows people that belong to a religeon, race, class, gender etc. to rely on each other for support more than people that they have no connection at all
 
Waiting for Jean Claude Ban Damme to round house this fool.
 
:barf:
Tenacity said:
It's racial, but not racist. Get over yourself.
Click to expand...



cool. ill start a WASP thread then.



shouldnt you be reaching across cultural/racial/ethnic lines in America to promote better understanding though? i know this is just a stupid thread....but i have a larger point:

stop creating ethnic/racial groups.....take down the barriers and perhaps racism will fade away faster. corny? you know im right.
 
iamspartacus said:
seriously BIG MDT. I find that these threads relieve stress, because it allows people that belong to a religeon, race, class, gender etc. to rely on each other for support more than people that they have no connection at all
Click to expand...

I thought thats what SDN was for in general and the pre-allo forum in specific? We all have a connection...

But :thumbup: for the ethnic cliques!
 
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all im saying is this: what is multiculturalism all about? is it about every culture being equally embraced? or is it about every culture grouping into its own cliques on campus and shunning away other cultures?



i support the melting pot idea.......everyone retains their culture to some degree but also contributes something to the pot when they move here.


if you want mosaic multiculturalism with strict boundaries then move to canada. quebec nearly left the country years ago.
 
BigMDT said:
all im saying is this: what is multiculturalism all about? is it about every culture being equally embraced? or is it about every culture grouping into its own cliques on campus and shunning away other cultures?



i support the melting pot idea.......everyone retains their culture to some degree but also contributes something to the pot when they move here.


if you want mosaic multiculturalism with strict boundaries then move to canada. quebec nearly left the country years ago.
Click to expand...

noones saying you cant be a part of these racial/ethnic/sex threads just because you dont qualify as racial ethnic etc. Im not korean, but id participate in this thread if i found it interestint enough? Colleges have groups like Hillel, and Christian society, and Indian Societies, Asian Societies etc. how is this different?
 
BigMDT said:
all im saying is this: what is multiculturalism all about? is it about every culture being equally embraced? or is it about every culture grouping into its own cliques on campus and shunning away other cultures?



i support the melting pot idea.......everyone retains their culture to some degree but also contributes something to the pot when they move here.


if you want mosaic multiculturalism with strict boundaries then move to canada. quebec nearly left the country years ago.
Click to expand...

No one is shunning anyone. I love your ideal, but it will never work out this way any time in the near future. In the meantime, we have a bunch of pre-meds who are desperate in need of support in this lonely process. If one venue is through something they strongly identify with, who are you to challenge that?
 
Tenacity said:
No one is shunning anyone. I love your ideal, but it will never work out this way any time in the near future. In the meantime, we have a bunch of pre-meds who are desperate in need of support in this lonely process. If one venue is through something they strongly identify with, who are you to challenge that?
Click to expand...

thats what i said, but you just said it better :)
 
BigMDT said:
all im saying is this: what is multiculturalism all about? is it about every culture being equally embraced? or is it about every culture grouping into its own cliques on campus and shunning away other cultures?



i support the melting pot idea.......everyone retains their culture to some degree but also contributes something to the pot when they move here.


if you want mosaic multiculturalism with strict boundaries then move to canada. quebec nearly left the country years ago.
Click to expand...


how is this thread shunning away other cultures? your puny comments only further reflect your ignorance and narrow-mindedness.
 
ParkMD said:
how is this thread shunning away other cultures? your puny comments only further reflect your ignorance and narrow-mindedness.
Click to expand...

i think hes gone, lets drop his stupid comments, and get back to talking about korean applicants.
 
ParkMD said:
how is this thread shunning away other cultures? your puny comments only further reflect your ignorance and narrow-mindedness.
Click to expand...


ignorance and narrowmindedness? i didnt claim this thread is shunning away other cultures (didnt you read my posts?) i am merely saying that looking for support amongst only your race/ethnicity supports the idea of grouping people together along race/ethnic/cultural lines--and it is this IDEA which reinforces divisions.


narrowminded??? if anything im openminded. im not the one starting threads specific to an ethnicity. why stop there then? how about a "How are my fellow Mexican Catholic applicants doing?" or "Any Buddhist Japanese applicants feeling stressed....cause i just want to hear from you?"
 
man BigMDT...stop with the racial stereotyping. i have plenty of japanese friends, and none of them practice buddhism.

anyway, change of subject...any cute male single korean premeds out there? :p
 
the reason this thread has taken more flak that those other cultural/ethnic ones is that koreans (and indians) are infamous for being extremely cliquey and exclusive and people have noticed. of course it's always more comfortable to make friends and relate to people who look like you and who have had similar experiences, but ive found that koreans especially make little effort to connect with people from different ethnic groups. ive gotten the impression from some of my korean friends that they feel that they are better than people from other ethnic groups (need an example? look no further than UCDavisisokay or pilsun or whatever that guys name is) but i think it stems from them being insecure and intimidated. in addition a lot of second generation korean-americans have identity issues because although they live and have grown up in the united states they've failed to assimilate and may feel that they relate more to the country of their parents.
 
finallyamember said:
man BigMDT...stop with the racial stereotyping. i have plenty of japanese friends, and none of them practice buddhism.

anyway, change of subject...any cute male single korean premeds out there? :p
Click to expand...


wow.....totally clueless as to my point. how thick is that head?
 
ParkMD said:
How are you all doing this application cycle and where have you been accepted so far???
Click to expand...

not applying not accepted :cool: ... good luck to you :luck:
 
aigu...let it be - beetles
 
ParkMD said:
How are you all doing this application cycle and where have you been accepted so far???
Click to expand...

I believe this is the fourth reincarnation of the infamous troll

:beat:
 
Man, Ban Halen still hasn't taken center stage to shread this dude?
 
i love how this post hasn't even touched on the OP's question. Good luck ParkMD. I wish I could give you some good news but I haven't even had an opportunity yet to experience the alleged racism of the application process. I hope that you're proven wrong... because I am one of those glass-half-full kinda guys.
 
BigMDT said:
i am merely saying that looking for support amongst only your race/ethnicity supports the idea of grouping people together along race/ethnic/cultural lines--and it is this IDEA which reinforces divisions.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
I agree with you BigMDT. Park's thread specifically only invites inputs from fellow Koreans, which I find to be tasteless. It inherently supposes that fellow korean applicants are treated differently than others.

ParkMD: you are your own person. You are not your ethnicity. Instead of judging the process based on the experience of other koreans, why not just other people in general?
 
I'm sure parkmd wasn't trying to offend anyone, its just that as much as ethnicity shouldn't have any bearing in the app process, it does. By him making a thread asking about how others of his ethinicity are doing, he's not trying to imply superiority or put down other applicants. Its just a "what's up" to people that wrote down korean on their apps to see what's going on. This thread is just like any other where people start threads about things they have in common with other people. Don't take it as a WE ARE KOREAN DOCTORS TO BE!@#!! BETTER THAN YOU thread.

Anyhue, I was recently accepted to utmb and all is great this year!
 
its ok, koreans, to share frustrations. just make sure to inlcude everyone else--otherwise you are resorting to "only people of X ethnicity can drink from this fountain" mentality. i think we know the word im thinkin of.



ne-who......all is well. gluck to everyone (korean and non-korean).


im going to go outside now and walk my DOG ..............:hardy:
 
Am I the only one who's smelling the unbearable stench of a troll???
 
BigMDT said:
its ok, koreans, to share frustrations. just make sure to inlcude everyone else--otherwise you are resorting to "only people of X ethnicity can drink from this fountain" mentality. i think we know the word im thinkin of.



ne-who......all is well. gluck to everyone (korean and non-korean).


m going to go outside now and walk my DOG ..............:hardy:
Click to expand...

Block party?
 
BigMDT said:
its ok, koreans, to share frustrations. just make sure to inlcude everyone else--otherwise you are resorting to "only people of X ethnicity can drink from this fountain" mentality.
Click to expand...

this is not true.
 
Isoprop said:
this is not true.
Click to expand...

Not really conversing are we? A statement like that doesn't do much to illuminate your opinon on the matter or provide fodder for though for others. :)
 
dude...BigMDT, i was just joking around and trying to ease the tension. you need to lighten up :thumbup:
 
Tenacity said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drogba
Waiting for Jean Claude Ban Damme to round house this fool.


Or Ban Gogh to ... paint this fool.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Is Ludwig Ban Beethoven gonna de-compose his face or what??
 
Drogba said:
Not really conversing are we? A statement like that doesn't do much to illuminate your opinon on the matter or provide fodder for though for others. :)
Click to expand...

:smuggrin:

yeah, your post elicited a response, but then after typing a few words i felt like i would go nowhere.

carry on. :thumbup:
 
SoyMilk said:
People are in fact grouped along cultural lines, this includes yourself BigMDT. You may associate with a variety of individuals of several ethnicities, religion etc; we all do. However you find that certain fundamental [American] cultural norms are shared [known/understood] among these individuals to allow communication/interaction to occur. For example in defining culture, language, slang, and common customs come to mind.


By ignoring the fact that Asian Americans have a distinct culture [neither completely asian nor American] you devaluate their cultural beliefs. Your assertion that the OP has done anything wrong by looking to those who have experienced many of the same things as himself [the so-called unique asian american experience] leads me to believe that in your mind, you believe Asians should not be allowed to practice their native culture. If for example I were to "practice" my native tongue I would probably do so with someone who would appreciate/understand what I was saying. It almost seems to me that your definition of multiculturalism isn't multiculturalism at all, rather it is aculturalism, monoculturalism, or uniculturalism.

BTW, I'm not korean since your probably wondering
Click to expand...


thats a fair argument...BUT.....

1. culture is a loaded word. American culture is great mix of several other cultures, and it is the semi-yet-not-complete-blending of cultures (which promotes interconnectedness, understanding, and erosion of racism) that America is so well known for and that i am advocating for.

2. yes we all share a culture, a somewhat American culture with many norms that we can all readily identify. but as soon as we hold TOO tightly to our cliques, and specific cultural/ethnic/racial groups then this will create divisions in our society--potentially destroying democracy.

3. There are many factors that have historically supported flourishing capitalist liberal democracies, and one of the great factors that political scientists have found which can make or break a democracy is the presence or absence of factions, clans, or strong national organizations that ally themselves along religious, ethnic, or cultural lines. In a sense the phrase goes: "If the only people I can identify with are those from my own race/ethnicity/religion, I will be compelled beyond all reason to only support and vote for political candidates that resemble my non-chosen backgrounds (ethnicity, race, and often religion)." And it is this kind of thinking which time and time again brings down democracies. Think Somalia. Heck, think of the sunnis and shiites in Iraq right now.

4. My point is not so much black and white--pun. I am saying its great to celebrate your culture. Its important to hold on to it--but not at the expense of excluding all others from your culture. Another group that could be brought into discussion are Mexican-Americans. A wonderful group with a very rich culture and tradition that is also held tightly to a foreing language--Spanish. Mexicans are no different from any other immigrating culture to the united states, save for one factor: They have voluntarily formed large communities, largely in the southwest, where many of their culture are so excluded from the rest of American society that they never even bother to learn the language. No other massive foreign immigration in US history has ever done this on a national scale. And for this reason Mexicans are quite unique. Division has been so rampid in the southwest that people are already calling for Bilingualism to put into law. Is this a good thing (yay for multiculturism!)? or a bad thing (yay for divisions and the fall of democracy!)?
you decide. a prominent Harvard political scientist recently wrote about this and claimed that this kind of immigration could erode democracy in america. not only do most of his colleagues agree with him, most mexican american political scientists agree as well.

5. My vision of multiculturalism is aligned with what American society hopes to achieve: a celebration of all cultures, while retaining an interconnectedness across cultural lines--like beads on a string. In laymens terms: "have your party, but dont practice "cliqueing" to the point where you have a sign outside that says 'no people of X race"
 
there is no danger to "destorying democracy" by holding on "too tightly to our cliques." a person's ethnic heritage is an important dimension of his or her identity, and it binds many people to a common history. ethnicity, race, and culture does not draw borders to contain people; rather, it's a scope that many people use to share. in effect, it brings people closer together.

you compare extreme nationalism to an ethnic identity. if anything, the example of sunnis and shiites in iraq is a good example that people should be absolutely mindful and respectful of the power and importance of a shared culture.

let's reflect on the context of this exclusion or "cliqueing" you are observing: a person of X ethnicity asking if there are any other people with X ethnicity sharing the same experiences. you have catalyzed a benign question into the destruction of democracy and racism. don't confuse "we welcome spanish speakers" to "no english allowed."
 
Isoprop said:
there is no danger to "destorying democracy" by holding on "too tightly to our cliques." a person's ethnic heritage is an important dimension of his or her identity, and it binds many people to a common history. ethnicity, race, and culture does not draw borders to contain people; rather, it's a scope that many people use to share. in effect, it brings people closer together.

you compare extreme nationalism to an ethnic identity. if anything, the example of sunnis and shiites in iraq is a good example that people should be absolutely mindful and respectful of the power and importance of a shared culture.

let's reflect on the context of this exclusion or "cliqueing" you are observing: a person of X ethnicity asking if there are any other people with X ethnicity sharing the same experiences. you have catalyzed a benign question into the destruction of democracy and racism. don't confuse "we welcome spanish speakers" to "no english allowed."
Click to expand...


if you read closely into what you have just said, it supports nearly all of my arguments. when people overidentify with only their culture/race/ethnicity/religion then you do exclude others. democracies are upheld by people making decisions based on choice subjects (like economy or social issues) and is brought down by non-choice narrowminded favoritism (i. e. President W. Bush is a born-again-christian, and I only assoiciate strongly with christians, so its an easy choice for him as president, regardless of his dumb policies.)

you can have a sign that says "we welcome spanish speakers," but in your case everyone in the place speaks only spanish, and there is no hope for english speakers.
 
i'm sorry i didn't make my point clear. i think cultural cohesiveness is a good thing. it brings people together. you are supporting breaking down this cohesiveness in support of a national identity (turning Asian-Americans to just Americans for instance). you are stripping away the cultural identity of various groups to create a homogeneous society.

because you and i may feel excluded from a group of a place that speaks only spanish does not invalidate their choice in language. because you and i may feel excluded from group X does not mean their bonds and relationships among one another are dangerous to democracy and our american society.
 
this thread is getting ******ed.
how bout you guys make a new thread about being annoying on SDN and go do your little rants there?

back to the subject.
I'm doing Ok with 6 interviews (3 in-state).
interview flow has slowed a little but still waiting on a few.

finallyamember: i'm gonna assume you have to be a cute single female pre-med.
macking on SDN. nice...
 
I wonder how many more posts until we see Godwin's Law
 
BigMDT said:
its ok, koreans, to share frustrations. just make sure to inlcude everyone else--otherwise you are resorting to "only people of X ethnicity can drink from this fountain" mentality. i think we know the word im thinkin of.
Click to expand...

ParkMD's original post, in no way suggests that non-Koreans cannot post of view this thread. I completely understand your concern about creating possible boundaries in this support forum, but I really think that your comments about racism is far-fetched, regardless how good your intentions are. Besides, there are several other threads in this forum that call for members of specific ethnicity, nationality, religion, or even MCAT/GPA tier - have you objected to any other one of such threads? I do believe that your intentions are perfectly good, but when you start reading a little too deep into things, you tend to blow things out of proportion and even create unnecessary animosity.

On the other hand... I am a Korean applicant planning on starting application process in this coming June. GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE, Korean and non-Korean!
:luck:
 
PatchesNBrownie said:


ParkMD's original post, in no way suggests that non-Koreans cannot post of view this thread. I completely understand your concern about creating possible boundaries in this support forum, but I really think that your comments about racism is far-fetched, regardless how good your intentions are. Besides, there are several other threads in this forum that call for members of specific ethnicity, nationality, religion, or even MCAT/GPA tier - have you objected to any other one of such threads? I do believe that your intentions are perfectly good, but when you start reading a little too deep into things, you tend to blow things out of proportion and even create unnecessary animosity.

On the other hand... I am a Korean applicant planning on starting application process in this coming June. GOOD LUCK TO EVERYONE, Korean and non-Korean!
:luck:
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

I would like to note though that there is a slight difference between the "Any ethnic group premeds out there?" and those that ask for input from people with similar MCAT/GPA or even state residency. Discussion in the latter frequently (if not primarily) addresses how those characteristics relate to the medical school application process while the former group rarely if ever go beyond having people identify themselves as members of an ethnic group. I would find it fascinating if people actually discussed how their heritage has affected their path to medicine, but this rarely happens. So I do think there is a difference.
 
Drogba said:
:thumbup:

I would like to note though that there is a slight difference between the "Any ethnic group premeds out there?" and those that ask for input from people with similar MCAT/GPA or even state residency. Discussion in the latter frequently (if not primarily) addresses how those characteristics relate to the medical school application process while the former group rarely if ever go beyond having people identify themselves as members of an ethnic group. I would find it fascinating if people actually discussed how their heritage has affected their path to medicine, but this rarely happens. So I do think there is a difference.
Click to expand...


I stand corrected! :laugh: True and true. Thanks for the note!

Anyone here applying this coming June (2008) for entrance in fall 2009?
 
SoyMilk said:
You make the assumption that Hispanic-Americans voluntarily segregate themselves. In any immigrant group, immigrants in the receiving country provide the support/infrastructure to make settling in a new and cultural different nation possible/easier. Regarding language I have been told in an International Migrations course that regarding Hispanic-Americans it is not so much that they lack incentive to learn English but rather the opportunity is not significantly available. If you have ever visited a foreign country you quickly realize the importance of learning the common language and customs as doing so provides a great degree of autonomy/functionality. Immigrant groups understand this just as well as you an I do. Also I'm curious BigMDT, how many languages can you speak? Have you every tried learning a language? If you have, you likely understand that learning languages can be difficult.

If in fact Americans did become bilingual do you not believe that perhaps this would only serve to broaden a relatively narrow-minded and untraveled people. Many may believe this is an unfair statement, however Americans view the immigration of Hispanics as an attack on the national identity of this nation, the American [predominantly western european] identity. To me, this is indicative of a people unwilling to introduce foreign culture into their own. If I were a Hispanic immigrant, I would feel unbelievably unwelcome and would in the face of this hostility, either real or perceived, would likely choose to associate with those of a similar and thus understanding culture.

Your solution to the formation of groups based primarily along ethnic lines is for those of the different ethnicity/culture to "reculturate" to the culture of the receiving nation; to your culture. I don't think this is problematic at all since we find when a minority group isn't unusually marginalized, the 3rd generation possesses cultural attributes most representative of those of the recieving nation. Look at the nisei and sansei. Isn't this called hanson/hansen's law? Any UCI international studies majors out there? In any event, making an effort to exclude the hispanic-american culture in my mind only serves to prevent the natural processes of acculturation from occurring. Notice that I'm looking at this from a different perspective, that it is that immigrants do not voluntarily exclude themselves, rather that if and when racial enclaves form they do so out of necessity.
Click to expand...



You make very good points. But I wholeheartedly disagree (and I suspect the widely published Harvard political scientist and his Mexican-American political scientist colleagues would as well.)

I have nothing against Mexican-Americans or really any immigrant group for that matter. I am just saying that their immigration is widely different and that you are wrong to assume that mexican immigrants are some "special" group that is without the same opportunities that were provided to past mass immigrating cultures in US history. Look at it this way:

1. There was a huge Eastern European immigration to America in the 19th century, most of whom spoke foreign languages ranging from german to polish to even russian etc. Do we find large territorial communities of these peoples retiaining their language and without ability to speak English? No.

2. In the past we also had large immigrations of Chinese and Japanese to America. Did they fail to learn the language? Obviously not--in fact they are among the most upwardly mobile ethnicities in the country. Did they have advantages to assimilate to American ways that Mexican-Americans do not have today? Of course not--if anything they experienced even more severe racism than what Mexican-Americans in general face today.

3. Even Puerto Ricans and Cubans have had recent mass immigrations, settling for most part on the East Coast. Do they have the same language barriers as Mexican-Americans? Not at all.

---Look, Mexican immigration is unique. I believe a lot of it is due to language and culture and perhaps and unwillingness to adopt American values.

I am NOT saying that when a new people comes to this country they have to give up their culture. Hell no. But when you come to this country, you are expected to assimilate in SOME ways in order to be a full contributor to our society--namely to learn the language, learn the laws, and associate with those outside your culture. This is all im saying. If you look at EVERY SINGLE IMMIGRANT group in our history, they have all done this. Mexican-Ameicans are unique in that many--not all--but many have not.

All past cultures have successfully integrated into American society while retaining a good degree of their heritage and tradition--a large part of it has to do with reaching out and not forming tight-knit and exclusive communities.
If Koreans want to keep to themselves, good luck. If Mexican-Americans wish to do that too, then holy crap. Many political scientists compare other countries that have allowed ethnic groups to do this just this way. The result is almost always ugly.
 
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