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I'm always up for ice cream!!!
And Taylor Swift!! 😀
And Taylor Swift!! 😀
Dear Student: No, I won't Change the Grade You Deserve
- Thread starter mimelim
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Couldnt agree more.
Always chuckled at professors who taught a literature course on the same book for over 60 semesters, having re-read the book that many times, and had expectations that their highly-developed ideas (which at that point were beyond debatable in validity and subjective ) should be reflected in their students in a matter of a few weeks. I never had trouble in these courses, but I did get called out once for looking up “complex” ideas from Shakespearean Scholars to add to discussion. Not even a paper, but we had an oral exam where you couldn’t possibly cite resources, and I got called out for regurgitating information despite the fact that most of Literature analysis is a trickle-down effect in the same manner. How many unique perspectives can you get on single sentence from King Lear? At some point they are all saying the same thing.
I have increasingly seen the “grading rubric” pop up. Because it makes sense. If you have 2-5 TA’s grading a single assignment….they will never agree on the temperament of the grading. And by luck your score is +/- 10% based on how deep you managed to stick your paper in the pile.
Starting to really like this T-score curve or bell curve for each test across several examinations. It really makes things fair because it puts you in an increasingly higher ranking among people in your class.
I don’t feel entitled just extremely disappointed when dozens of emails, visits to office hours, time with university tutors and incompetent TAs who are getting a tuition-free ride just exhaust my energy. The stupidity among instructors at all levels is as rampart as with the students. A good professor is a gem. I have one right now and sadly he is retiring and a big antagonist of grade inflation.
[e] shameful grammar
In my undergrad, I took a course that was taught in German. The prof. is a native speaker. Anyway, she never passed up a chance to tell me how great my German was, etc. I also got good grades on the written assignments. She gave me a B-! I was upset b/c that was the lowest grade I'd ever gotten in a German course.
There's this meme floating around:
Is this a problem that's exclusive to US institutions?
From what I see in other countries, the students blame themselves for not learning the material (or moreso, their parents blame them). This attitude was pretty consistent amongst the students I've talked to from universities at New Zealand, Norway, and Japan. In contrast, blaming the teachers and professors seems to be a popular topic among college students here in the US. Ratemyprofessor.com is a prime example.
I will say that one problem at my university was that a lot of the professors were there solely for their research and didn't give a single **** about their teaching obligations. They were phoning it in and were very open about this. Omg. The prof. I had for micro was one of the worst. He didn't lecture. He made us get into groups and teach each other. None of us understood the material, which is why we were in the class, douche. Told him in his evaluation that we're paying him to do his job for him and that he should consider a new career if he doesn't want to teach. I know for a fact I'm not the only student who felt this way. I remember he once freaked out on a girl b/c she had a phone out in class (he wasn't even teaching; he didn't do that). He claimed she was disturbing others with it. No. She wasn't. HE was disturbing others by reacting as though she'd just admitted to being Osama Bin Laden. Though that clearly doesn't represent all of them. I was one of four TAs for a course in the German dept. (for our dept. it was a big course). We had grading responsibilities, but the professor gave us a rubric and very specific criteria for grading. We were also required to leave the students feedback for the grades. These were all essays. Some were very good. Others not so much. I remember one in particular that was really bad. We ended up printing it out (without the student's name) and posting it int he TA office or something like that. The student clearly had not seen the film and was trying to BS her way through the essay. She also ended one sentence mid sentence by just putting a period right in the middle of a sentence. Lol. It was really bad, and I wanted to give it a zero, but the professor wouldn't let us do that. :/ There was a course that another grad student and I were asked to take over after the professor had to be hospitalized. I gave a girl in that class a zero on a test question worth, I believe 25 points because she'd gotten it wrong despite us having gone over it several times in class and emphasizing that it was likely to show up on the test. I was pissed off. In hindsight, maybe I should've given her a 10 or something.
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While I do not personally share the following attitude, I lost count of how many times students tried to argue that since they are paying for their education, everyone at the university (professors, TAs, administration, etc) has to go out of their way to provide students with exceptional educational experience. If you want to make them drop that argument, you would have to make higher education free, or considerably cheaper, on par with European universities, and the rest of the world. Otherwise, I see where the feelings of entitlement may come from, even if I don't agree with it.
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I'm glad I didn't grow up an entitled douche.
I earned my Fs in high school! 😛
Hm.. I think students with that mentality need to understand that exceptional education means providing excellent lectures, approachable faculty/TA, responsive and helpful administration.
Grades is something you have to earn according to the standard of quality required by each subject. Effort doesn't always equate result. Sure, rarely great score comes without hard work. But not all handwork ends in great grades.
Just because they pay for education, doesn't mean they deserve a great grade.
Yeah, thankfully there isn't too much sabotage at my school.
For my peers in orgo and physics though, it was basically understood that one would forge data for labs...
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Seriously you could make stuff up in orgo lab? Don't they safeguard against that by doing labs where you have to identify randomly distributed unknowns, or turn in what you synthesized to have NMR done on it, etc?
Physics though yeah, there were always those people leaving waaaay early because they could figure out what results they're supposed to get and just make up a convincing set of faux data
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Wait, they did your NMR for you? Lucky bastards...nothing makes a 6hr lab sting more than spending an evening later that week shimming the damn machine.
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Maybe that was part of keeping it legit, couldn't you have just taken some of a friend's sample to run yourself? Or they didn't trust us with expensive equipment - our IR spectro machines were from like the 1970s
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Couldn't you have done the same? Our school didn't try to catch us cheating; it wasn't really an issue there. We didn't take the spectra to make sure we hadn't skipped corners, but because until you've verified your product in some way, you have nothing to write up.
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No, the TA collected a sample from each person and then we got our readouts back a few days later. I think I recall you had lots of take-home exams and were at a very small school so letting students take their own data makes sense.
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I asked about a grade once, we had 4 graded assignments and I had As on 3 of them (the other was a B+), and got a B+ in the class. The professor said he graded on a "4.0 scale" implying that you had to have As on all 4 assignments to get an A in the course. BS grading policy imo but I didn't know if I could fight it or really think it was worth the effort, for what was still a good grade.
On the other hand I also had a lot of professors who encouraged us to double-check tests and come back if there was an error, or have a policy already in place for asking for a re-read of your test/paper (the caveat usually being that you could risk it being lowered). I also had an awesome prof once who had us email her our final projects, and then sent them back with corrections/criticisms and a deadline so we could improve our grades... while you could see that as making it easy on us, it re-inforced the editing process and helped us learn what we could improve on, so I actually really appreciated it for more than just the grade boost. I was an English major, and so often you'd turn in your final paper and then never get feedback because you were done with the class, so that was a nice change.
On the topic of being an English major. I only had one prof whom I thought really wanted people to read his mind. I accepted a lower grade in that class because that attitude annoyed me (literally edited the ideas in my paper to support his totally different argument...) and I didn't take anything from him again. I took classes from people throughout the department, and what profs were looking for were solid arguments and evidence to back up your ideas. Maybe it was just my department and I lucked out but I do feel like they were pretty consistent in that regard even having different perspectives. I imagine few of my papers were truly unique in terms of analysis of classic works, especially when we were assigned to analyze a specific book from a specific perspective. What I really felt like I gained from that major was the ability to defend my opinions well.
Note: this does not include creative writing profs! I was a literature major but took a few of those classes... one of the profs hated me and my writing and we would just sit there and argue the whole class; the other one loved my writing. Guess which class I got a better grade in. LOL
On the other hand I also had a lot of professors who encouraged us to double-check tests and come back if there was an error, or have a policy already in place for asking for a re-read of your test/paper (the caveat usually being that you could risk it being lowered). I also had an awesome prof once who had us email her our final projects, and then sent them back with corrections/criticisms and a deadline so we could improve our grades... while you could see that as making it easy on us, it re-inforced the editing process and helped us learn what we could improve on, so I actually really appreciated it for more than just the grade boost. I was an English major, and so often you'd turn in your final paper and then never get feedback because you were done with the class, so that was a nice change.
On the topic of being an English major. I only had one prof whom I thought really wanted people to read his mind. I accepted a lower grade in that class because that attitude annoyed me (literally edited the ideas in my paper to support his totally different argument...) and I didn't take anything from him again. I took classes from people throughout the department, and what profs were looking for were solid arguments and evidence to back up your ideas. Maybe it was just my department and I lucked out but I do feel like they were pretty consistent in that regard even having different perspectives. I imagine few of my papers were truly unique in terms of analysis of classic works, especially when we were assigned to analyze a specific book from a specific perspective. What I really felt like I gained from that major was the ability to defend my opinions well.
Note: this does not include creative writing profs! I was a literature major but took a few of those classes... one of the profs hated me and my writing and we would just sit there and argue the whole class; the other one loved my writing. Guess which class I got a better grade in. LOL
Yeah, haha. It wasn't as big a problem in orgo as physics.
I wonder how many people cheated in pre req lecture exams as well, since people know not to admit to "that" kind of cheating.
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I love that you exist. Truth is, in my experience (TA/lecturer), the norm was for students to "give it a try because they had nothing to lose". Needless to say, my policy was to regrade the entire assignment/test (thus, if I made a mistake and "gave" them a point, they would risk losing that advantage). It appeared that was enough to dissuade the "nothing to lose" crowd. I didn't mind being asked to look over something if indeed there was a legit reason for it, and I did my best to quell their fears "I can't get a C because I won't get into med school and will be robbed of my dream" (boy was that a tough one to answer, given my own predicament). While teaching was awesome, grading sucked (and yes, I am aware it's part of the teaching process--it's just not the best part, is all).
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I somehow stumbled into the only grading TA position at my college (that I'm aware of): second semester Orgo.
I died a slow death grading a problem set where someone pushed positive charges around with arrows. Never again.
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I see this a little too often. Also, there was one dude who would do his electrophilic aromatic substitution reactions with cyclohexane (instead of benzene). 😵
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Well here here, fellow Ochem II TA/lecturer! I find there's a nice kinship among those of us (un?)fortunate enough to have taught/TA Ochem II. Horror stories HORROR STORIES. Oh, the things those kids did, they way they defiled an otherwise elegant subject, by adding, oh, 7 bonds coming off a carbon (rule #1: no, really, there are never, ever, more than 4 bonds on carbon. Not in this course, anyway).
Sounds like your school might have been a bit better than mine [it's a large commuter school with a few really great students, but the majority are sort of lost and shuffling and don't seem to care (which is fine, personally....everyone's got to feel out their own life)]. At least your students understood the concept of a charge...
Did you have the pleasure of teaching labs? While TA for lecture will crush you soul to death, running the lab has the risk of actual physical death. I was pretty convinced this was some elaborate scheme to off me (I kid, sort of). But honestly, the number of times we had a fire ball flame across the lab was uncanny.... I approached lab TA as one might the hunger games--They may not want to kill you, but your objective over the course of the next 4 hours is to ensure your own safety and that of all the others. Go! (uh, is that...sodium...right next to running water you've got going on?...oh, you brought over the entire block of sodium and were going to cut it at the bench...next to the water...now, you say?....ok, well, don't remove the supplies from the hood because everyone needs to access them *carefully remove small brick of sodium away from crazy student before he flinches, pours water on the sodium, blowing us up to Kingdom Come*).
And then there's the cheating. Gosh do I abhor cheaters (at the very least, put some effort into it, don't insult my intelligence, sheesh!)
Let's just say there was a reason we TAs bonded (and had an emergency bottle of vodka in the -70)
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electrophilic aromatic substitution reactions with cyclohexane (not benzene). 😵
Once, that statement would have made sense to me. Now it's gibberish. It's awesome being done with prereqs and mcat
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I don't think I'll ever forget how to do a cookie cutter EAS mechanism.
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I was fortunate, to say the least...this was literally the only course with grading TAs in the entire school to my knowledge, because the Chem profs didn't believe in capping the class at 20-30 people like most in-demand courses, and there was no such thing as a multiple choice exam in the entire school outside of the Psych department (let it be noted that they capped their classes AND used multiple choice, the lazy bastards). There were NO teaching positions, all lecturing and labbing was done by professors, though I think there were a few lab TAs who roamed around to prevent such sodium catastrophes. Usually, TAing a course just meant being the go-to person in the science workshop for that subject, and maybe having some extra review sessions and office hours if it was a really intense subject...most courses didn't have TAs except the really large labs, a few math courses (they didn't have the science workshop), and the languages (TAs would run language lunches).
And, best of all...cheating was pretty much nonexistent at my school, so there was that.
So, yeah, all in all I got off pretty lucky. Some of the exams, though...they made me sad. I think the worst ones were those that got it right, but took like 3 pages to do what could have been done in 3 steps if they'd gone about it the right way. They'd still get the marks, but it'd take me forever to trace through their madness and convince myself that, technically, they were correct, even if it felt oh so wrong.
PS: There was one course where the TA was integral...the honors orgo lab I did where there was no lab manual, just one procedure, 2 reactants, and a product. We had all semester to fully identify all three structures (with explicit proof) and explain the reaction using any and all resources in the school (and with a limited budget for send-offs). Our poor TA was never quite sure what we were up to, and had to help shepherd us through all of the crazy. We'd read about some cool test involving flames and sodium or crazy instruments we'd never heard of and he'd have to make sure we didn't blow anything important up. Good times!
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Yeah, but if you look at the material again for like 10 min (or even less), you'll be able to do an easy one.
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You have more faith in me than I do in myself...
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Lol, didn't you have a 92 LizzyM?!! Anyway, modesty is always appreciated.
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I just liked to put molecules into a long chain ... kind of like beads on a string.
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I took English class with a professor who was impressed by my writing. Every time he hands my essay back he compliment me for it, approaches me after class to further discuss my essay, and even offer his help with enthusiasms. Guess what? that professor choose to give me B- because I had to skip class several times due to scheduling issues. When I asked him, he said that is the system and he can't change it even though your performance WAS A.
People here need to stop for a second and realize that for some professors, giving low grade is the highlight of their semester.
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I actually did get a higher grade in a class by talking to the professor.
You don't get what you don't ask for.
(the only reason I was able to pull it off was because it was like the freshman orientation type class and I had some health problems that I explained)
You don't get what you don't ask for.
(the only reason I was able to pull it off was because it was like the freshman orientation type class and I had some health problems that I explained)
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I second this
-I was an English major and never got below an A on any paper I have ever written.
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LOL, the several pages to get through the madness of a synthesis that could have been done in three steps...good old days....The first term I TA'd for ochemII, I'd give full credit, but then shifted policy to give partial credit to those three-pagers, because it wasn't fair to the students who nailed the syntheses (and because if it takes you three pages to get the job done, you've misunderstood the whole concept of "retrosynthesis"). I used to try and figure out each loony mechanism the kids would invent on their exams, and after HOURS of putting up with it, I figured if I needed to put in this much guesswork to try and figure out where the hell they were going, then we weren't headed anywhere good. I remedied this by establishing an answer key with all the possible acceptable ways a synthesis could be done, and these all got full credit (I also gave full credit in the rare instances when an alternative valid synthesis was proposed when both the number of steps and their rationale were reasonable, albeit not ideal). The ridiculous 3-pagers got partial credit for any "step" they executed in a multistep synthesis, with diminishing returns on those which were both longer and more ludicrous. I also gave partial credit for a missed step or if they fell into a basic trap for a part of the synthesis which would have otherwise worked (e.g. a Friedel-Crafts EAS with a primary alkyl halide without accounting for the carbocation rearrangement major product...stuff like that).
The best were those that flat out invented a whole new chemistry (e.g. moving positive charges, or atoms just magically appearing out of nowhere). Alchemy is probably a better word for this, though. There was an exemplary display of creativity, that's for sure. Molecules would appear out of nowhere (or disappear into thin air). It was tedious but entertaining (at least this is what I told myself to suffer through a stack of 300 exams).
Yeah, also took the Honors Orgo (and went on to TA that too, and then went on to conduct research in synthetic organic chemistry). TAing the honors course was interesting, because these kids were smart, but a little misguided (and yes, my primary job was to ensure no one blew up our fancy new NMR machine). The kids would walk in totally excited about some crazy elaborate scheme, and I was delighted they were eager, but it was interesting to guide them back to Earth (especially since, I, knowing the actual answer to their assignment, was acutely aware of how disappointed some of them would be at its simplicity, and I could relate to them since I was in their shoes not long before).
I miss orgo. I even miss the twice-weekly challenge of running around like a maniac trying to ensure none of those well-meaning students didn't accidentally do us all in. It's a good skill to have for medicine (or babysitting, or life in general). You get used to that stress, it all becomes a little ridiculous, and you can't help but develop a good sense of humor given the hilarity of the situation. Ok done reminiscing. Oh, those were the days. Now the days are all filled with the desperation of trying to get into medical school without appearing like a complete nut. New challenge. woot. Let's just say I was a bit more successful with the former challenge than the latter one. Here's to hoping that changes, hopefully sooner than later.
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I did that too! But my model kit was cheap and crappy, and it was almost impossible to pull those suckers apart (so everything I made was sure to have a few methyl groups hanging off it).
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wtf is that gif? I never understood it
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