Debating over if I should even do medical.... (high-school senior)

[Mercurius]

Why did you even consider medicine? Was you're decision based out of self-challenge, or rather a decision to expand traits of your personality, perhaps both? If you chose your medical profession out of a self-justifying reasoning which was not necessarily lucrative, why not?

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[unexpected_medicine]

pretty funny article from the allopath forums: http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/05/pay-french-doctor.html
Money isn't the reason. There are wayyy better and faster ways to make money. For me it was about the material it just called to me.

 

[Mercurius]

pretty funny article from the allopath forums: http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/05/pay-french-doctor.html
Money isn't the reason. There are wayyy better and faster ways to make money. For me it was about the material it just called to me.

please name some ---- franchises? idk i would love to build a financial base before medschool, but its strange to hear that - so please name a few ways

 

[unexpected_medicine]

Computer scientists make crazy amounts of money but I guess you're asking about careers involving biology. Finance is actually a good option especially if you did more mathematical biology. The economy is just like an ecosystem and guess who specializes on understanding that. All the biotech over at Cali will pay well and they understand that people use it as a launching pad for medicine or PhD. Unlike pure tech they will even encourage it . The only downside it is expensive to live in cali. The non new companies I was looking at before deciding to just fully throw myself into application hell were EPIC, Athena Health, Int. Surgical, Genetech, and some start ups. Hope this helps.

 

[Mercurius]

Computer scientists make crazy amounts of money but I guess you're asking about careers involving biology. Finance is actually a good option especially if you did more mathematical biology. The economy is just like an ecosystem and guess who specializes on understanding that. All the biotech over at Cali will pay well and they understand that people use it as a launching pad for medicine or PhD. Unlike pure tech they will even encourage it . The only downside it is expensive to live in cali. The non new companies I was looking at before deciding to just fully throw myself into application hell were EPIC, Athena Health, Int. Surgical, Genetech, and some start ups. Hope this helps.

I seriously can't believe I looked over these possibilities. I assumed an M.D. was nationally alluded the financially stable law of the land. I love SDN. Thanks.

 

[Doctor Dream]

If you're even somewhat interested in medicine, I'd just suggest shadowing a physician and talking to them to see if you like what they do.

For me, although I'm pre-med, I'm choosing medicine because I couldn't see myself being happy doing anything else the next 40+ years. Medicine offers a cool blend of biology and caring for people, which to me is something I'd enjoy doing and find rewarding day in and day out. It sounds cliché, but that's actually something I'd love in a profession accompanied by a lot of stress. Using your knowledge, training, etc. to change someone's life for the better, and knowing you made a difference.

Medicine also is one of the few career areas where you can get a degree and be virtually GUARANTEED to potentially make 150k+ (depending on your specialty) after completing residency. Other careers require you to move up the ladder over the years, and even then you'll be lucky to be compensated that well. A lot of specialties in medicine have sporadic hours, and various call shifts which is something to consider. I want to go in to family medicine though, which is ideal for having a family in the future. It doesn't pay as well as other specialties, but it has relatively normal work hours, and weekends off.

Those are the reasons I'm going in to medicine. Like I said, if you're interested in medicine I'd suggest shadowing a physician. If you're only interested in money, then medicine is NOT a career you're going to enjoy. Like others have said, there's way better ways to make money than medicine.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

A lot of specialties in medicine have sporadic hours, and various call shifts which is something to consider. I want to go in to family medicine though, which is ideal for having a family in the future. It doesn't pay as well as other specialties, but it has relatively normal work hours, and weekends off.

You can potentially have a normal schedule in FM, but I certainly won't go into it because you think family medicine means time for your own family.

 

[unexpected_medicine]

I seriously can't believe I looked over these possibilities. I assumed an M.D. was nationally alluded the financially stable law of the land. I love SDN. Thanks.

It is true that medicine is a stable career path. You don't have to worry about layoffs in the US since we are so low on doctors. You might not be able to go where you want but there is always a place for you. Money wise while u do make 150k+ your hours is like working 2 jobs not even counting time devoted to continuing education so that money is earned not given. And, the fact is if you're good enough to get into a US medical school where the acceptance rate is like 40% getting into 1 school. Layoffs are probably not that big of a fear for you in any career path. We don't fire 60% of our workforce at at time lol.

I take it that you are going to a good college soon? Take the time to explore. Don't be that typical premed. In fact don't call yourself a premed at all. The beauty and craziness of healthcare is that it requires input from many perspectives. Bio dominated MDs really controlled it in the past but that didn't go well at all. Its fine that you're thinking about money. Its pretty responsible in fact. You're getting criticism for that in part because you are on a premed med forum and we've convinced ourselves that we don't care about money. I know I have LOL.

Always think about what fields are growing and which ones are past their prime. Medicine won't go away but medicine is a genra not a field in itself. Specialties like radiology and anesthesiology are getting smaller fast but others like neurology and neurosurgery are booming. Who knows we might have cybernetics in 20 years and medicine will be full of engineers.

 

[Doctor Dream]

It is true that medicine is a stable career path. You don't have to worry about layoffs in the US since we are so low on doctors. You might not be able to go where you want but there is always a place for you. Money wise while u do make 150k+ your hours is like working 2 jobs not even counting time devoted to continuing education so that money is earned not given. And, the fact is if you're good enough to get into a US medical school where the acceptance rate is like 40% getting into 1 school. Layoffs are probably not that big of a fear for you in any career path. We don't fire 60% of our workforce at at time lol.

I take it that you are going to a good college soon? Take the time to explore. Don't be that typical premed. In fact don't call yourself a premed at all. The beauty and craziness of healthcare is that it requires input from many perspectives. Bio dominated MDs really controlled it in the past but that didn't go well at all. Its fine that you're thinking about money. Its pretty responsible in fact. You're getting criticism for that in part because you are on a premed med forum and we've convinced ourselves that we don't care about money. I know I have LOL.

Always think about what fields are growing and which ones are past their prime. Medicine won't go away but medicine is a genra not a field in itself. Specialties like radiology and anesthesiology are getting smaller fast but others like neurology and neurosurgery are booming. Who knows we might have cybernetics in 20 years and medicine will be full of engineers.

I don't see anything wrong with calling yourself a pre-med, it shows that you're committed to going in to the medical field. Just don't be one of those d bags that thinks being a pre-med carries any academic weight. It doesn't.

I also wasn't criticizing him because he's thinking about money, I agree that money is something to consider, and I clearly was thinking about money in my post above. I was simply mentioning that if money is the big reason you're considering medicine, you're not going to find the profession very rewarding and should probably consider something else. The road to medicine is also long and stressful, and if money is the only thing driving you to succeed, you're more than likely going to fail before you even become a doctor.

Biggest thing OP is only you can answer if you like medicine or not. I'd definitely take this coming summer to shadow a physician or two and talk to them about their day, their training, education, life outside of the job, etc. and see if that is something you want to do. You're still in the early years, and have tons of time to decide what you want to do.

 

[Doctor Dream]

You can potentially have a normal schedule in FM, but I certainly won't go into it because you think family medicine means time for your own family.

I think family medicine offers flexibility. If family is important, there's no reason a practice couldn't be set up to allow time with family. That's at least the case with the FM doc's I've seen in clinics.

 

[Mercurius]

If you're even somewhat interested in medicine, I'd just suggest shadowing a physician and talking to them to see if you like what they do.

For me, although I'm pre-med, I'm choosing medicine because I couldn't see myself being happy doing anything else the next 40+ years. Medicine offers a cool blend of biology and caring for people, which to me is something I'd enjoy doing and find rewarding day in and day out. It sounds cliché, but that's actually something I'd love in a profession accompanied by a lot of stress. Using your knowledge, training, etc. to change someone's life for the better, and knowing you made a difference.

Medicine also is one of the few career areas where you can get a degree and be virtually GUARANTEED to potentially make 150k+ (depending on your specialty) after completing residency. Other careers require you to move up the ladder over the years, and even then you'll be lucky to be compensated that well. A lot of specialties in medicine have sporadic hours, and various call shifts which is something to consider. I want to go in to family medicine though, which is ideal for having a family in the future. It doesn't pay as well as other specialties, but it has relatively normal work hours, and weekends off.

Those are the reasons I'm going in to medicine. Like I said, if you're interested in medicine I'd suggest shadowing a physician. If you're only interested in money, then medicine is NOT a career you're going to enjoy. Like others have said, there's way better ways to make money than medicine.

I don't think there's anything wrong with everything that comes with a D.O., after all your'e doing it because you want to, but what about an M.D.? Anesthesia, Cardiology, Urology - A cardiologist is guaranteed an average base salary of 512,000 annually according to Forbes. I don't know if this will change for the better or worse in the upcoming years, but it seems like it has made a long and steady progression from what I can see. My research is only good as mainstream provides, but SDN is helping me maintain a realistic image of this. Do you think it's worth it on more or less of a lucrative level to rely on a cardiologist' salary vs something like anesthesia or biotech, at least to supplement that potential millionaire feeling we all want? Disregarding the time factor? I'm graduating on the 21st and have made a few changes within my undergrad plan from the useful advice I've gotten from SDN. You really make some excellent points. For me I guess it's just a matter of being realistic 24/7 but it's really difficult to maintain that attitude. Thanks.

 

[Conflagration]

Hello! I'm two years your senior- and I'm trying to decide between a medical field career or mathematical biology.

Mathematical biology is pretty interesting; and as a more spatial sort of mind, I think I'd prefer the modeling side of it.

It essentially uses principles in mathematics in order to explain or better demonstrate biological phenomena. The Hardy-Weinberg equation for the diversity of alleles in a gene pool given the expressed phenotypes is an example. (Actually, something to note; it's called the Hardy-Weinberg equation because it was the product of an English mathematician and a German physician, Godfrey Hardy and William Weinberg, respectively.)

That's more theoretical, though. If you were more of the creative sort, you could use programming and mathematical equations to plot data from studies, like a biostatistician with pretty pictures.

If you have questions, just PM me.

 

[Doctor Dream]

I don't think there's anything wrong with everything that comes with a D.O., after all your'e doing it because you want to, but what about an M.D.? Anesthesia, Cardiology, Urology - A cardiologist is guaranteed an average base salary of 512,000 annually according to Forbes. I don't know if this will change for the better or worse in the upcoming years, but it seems like it has made a long and steady progression from what I can see. My research is only good as mainstream provides, but SDN is helping me maintain a realistic image of this. Do you think it's worth it on more or less of a lucrative level to rely on a cardiologist' salary vs something like anesthesia or biotech, at least to supplement that potential millionaire feeling we all want? Disregarding the time factor? I'm graduating on the 21st and have made a few changes within my undergrad plan from the useful advice I've gotten from SDN. You really make some excellent points. For me I guess it's just a matter of being realistic 24/7 but it's really difficult to maintain that attitude. Thanks.

I think a key thing to realize here is that lots of MD's are family physicians, and DO's although they're known for family medicine, often go on to specialize. There's a whole mess of debate and arguments on SDN between DO and MD, but ultimately you can make it as a cardiologist as a DO if you work hard enough, and many MD's go in to family medicine. Any physician who's credible (or not an arrogant a**) will tell you DO's and MD's are the same, and no one really cares what letters you have after your name. They only care if you're good at your job.

As far as money, you'll be very well compensated regardless. If you're looking to make big $$ then you should look at ophthalmology, or orthopedic surgery. If you run your practice right, you can easily pull in 800k a year.

I think for now your biggest hurdle (like everyone) is getting in to medical school, and I'd be most focused on that. Once you get in to medical school you can focus more on what you'd like to pursue as a specialty. It's good to have an idea of what specialties you'd like to do though. That's where shadowing comes in!

 

[Mercurius]

It is true that medicine is a stable career path. You don't have to worry about layoffs in the US since we are so low on doctors. You might not be able to go where you want but there is always a place for you. Money wise while u do make 150k+ your hours is like working 2 jobs not even counting time devoted to continuing education so that money is earned not given. And, the fact is if you're good enough to get into a US medical school where the acceptance rate is like 40% getting into 1 school. Layoffs are probably not that big of a fear for you in any career path. We don't fire 60% of our workforce at at time lol.

I take it that you are going to a good college soon? Take the time to explore. Don't be that typical premed. In fact don't call yourself a premed at all. The beauty and craziness of healthcare is that it requires input from many perspectives. Bio dominated MDs really controlled it in the past but that didn't go well at all. Its fine that you're thinking about money. Its pretty responsible in fact. You're getting criticism for that in part because you are on a premed med forum and we've convinced ourselves that we don't care about money. I know I have LOL.

Always think about what fields are growing and which ones are past their prime. Medicine won't go away but medicine is a genra not a field in itself. Specialties like radiology and anesthesiology are getting smaller fast but others like neurology and neurosurgery are booming. Who knows we might have cybernetics in 20 years and medicine will be full of engineers.

I guess so, looking at all these -prestige- med school interviews for -prestige- med schools like John Hopkins on YouTube, they all have that common theme - I didn't always consider medicine - , and there is a lot of variety in their own backgrounds. I still haven't decided whether I should even major in bio or humanities, and the arguments on SDN really haven't answered this issue in a way which is relevant to my own path, but they really did put stuff on the table which I could never have, and by doing so got some major issues for myself out of the way, even hypothetically, regarding at least future planning. I'm going to a CC that transfers honors class credit from their program to the state university honors program, so I think that I have hope there regarding my college quality. You prove a great point, it would've taken me some time to find this out on the internet, thanks.

 

[Mercurius]

I think a key thing to realize here is that lots of MD's are family physicians, and DO's although they're known for family medicine, often go on to specialize. There's a whole mess of debate and arguments on SDN between DO and MD, but ultimately you can make it as a cardiologist as a DO if you work hard enough, and many MD's go in to family medicine. Any physician who's credible (or not an arrogant a**) will tell you DO's and MD's are the same, and no one really cares what letters you have after your name. They only care if you're good at your job.

As far as money, you'll be very well compensated regardless. If you're looking to make big $$ then you should look at ophthalmology, or orthopedic surgery. If you run your practice right, you can easily pull in 800k a year.

I think for now your biggest hurdle (like everyone) is getting in to medical school, and I'd be most focused on that. Once you get in to medical school you can focus more on what you'd like to pursue as a specialty. It's good to have an idea of what specialties you'd like to do though. That's where shadowing comes in!

Thanks

 

[Doctor Dream]

Thanks

No problem! If you have any other questions feel free to pm me and I can help you out. Keep in mind I'm only a pre med, but I try to keep myself informed about things Welcome to SDN by the way.

 

[unexpected_medicine]

I guess so, looking at all these -prestige- med school interviews for -prestige- med schools like John Hopkins on YouTube, they all have that common theme - I didn't always consider medicine - , and there is a lot of variety in their own backgrounds. I still haven't decided whether I should even major in bio or humanities, and the arguments on SDN really haven't answered this issue in a way which is relevant to my own path, but they really did put stuff on the table which I could never have, and by doing so got some major issues for myself out of the way, even hypothetically, regarding at least future planning. I'm going to a CC that transfers honors class credit from their program to the state university honors program, so I think that I have hope there regarding my college quality. You prove a great point, it would've taken me some time to find this out on the internet, thanks.

The route you're going is very financially responsible. Unfortunately the route does not give you much opportunity to explore so you may need a more precise target in mind than someone going to a top 4 year university. The fact is the things I talked about w/ regard to emerging fields and new potential are amazing in an application for top schools. The small ones really do just want a typical premed born and raised locally so they can push out more family care docs. It was worse for me because my local schools didn't want just family care docs they wanted rural family care docs. While I would love to practice family medicine, rural medicine was just a step too far.

I'm sorry to have to suggest that you examine your choices especially with respect to college major because being able to explore fields in college is probably its best attribute. To make a decision look at your local medical schools and see what they are looking for and whether they might be more interested in a traditional premed to serve a needed position in society or a more nontraditional applicant to one day expand and improve medicine. Ultimately tho you should study what you are interested in. If you weren't interested in what you chose to study in undergrad the med schools won't believe that you'll be interested in medicine in the future even if you have great stats.

Additionally the CC route doesn't have as much school prestige to push you through. When I was interviewing there were tons of people from IVYs and MIT but granted I was a MD/PhD applicant. It will be harder but def. go for it.

Anyway I'm glad that you seem to be more excited now than when you wrote that depressing title and original post. Keep up that enthusiasm and you'll do fine.

 

[unexpected_medicine]

Hello! I'm two years your senior- and I'm trying to decide between a medical field career or mathematical biology.

Mathematical biology is pretty interesting; and as a more spatial sort of mind, I think I'd prefer the modeling side of it.

It essentially uses principles in mathematics in order to explain or better demonstrate biological phenomena. The Hardy-Weinberg equation for the diversity of alleles in a gene pool given the expressed phenotypes is an example. (Actually, something to note; it's called the Hardy-Weinberg equation because it was the product of an English mathematician and a German physician, Godfrey Hardy and William Weinberg, respectively.)

That's more theoretical, though. If you were more of the creative sort, you could use programming and mathematical equations to plot data from studies, like a biostatistician with pretty pictures.

If you have questions, just PM me.

You could be like me and do both XD. I'll be going for an MD/PhD with computational biology track which is just a more modern/fancier way of saying mathematical biology. The only thing to keep in mind is whether you are a better biologist or a better mathematician because the two sides haven't fully merged. For a biologist systems bio is amazing and its growing crazy fast. A mathematician can really push the frontiers of our modeling capabilities but they don't always work on biomedical problems.

 

[unexpected_medicine]

I don't think there's anything wrong with everything that comes with a D.O., after all your'e doing it because you want to, but what about an M.D.? Anesthesia, Cardiology, Urology - A cardiologist is guaranteed an average base salary of 512,000 annually according to Forbes. I don't know if this will change for the better or worse in the upcoming years, but it seems like it has made a long and steady progression from what I can see. My research is only good as mainstream provides, but SDN is helping me maintain a realistic image of this. Do you think it's worth it on more or less of a lucrative level to rely on a cardiologist' salary vs something like anesthesia or biotech, at least to supplement that potential millionaire feeling we all want? Disregarding the time factor? I'm graduating on the 21st and have made a few changes within my undergrad plan from the useful advice I've gotten from SDN. You really make some excellent points. For me I guess it's just a matter of being realistic 24/7 but it's really difficult to maintain that attitude. Thanks.

I guess to give a more solid example of how money is involved in decision making for a residency applicant I'll give you a story that a program director told us during interviews. There was a MD/PhD student in that program who was one of the best and really wanted to do neurosurgery. He started neurosurgery and realized that it wasn't what he really wanted and left for a postdoc in neuroscience and is now leading a promising career in developing new glioblastoma therapy. But his current salary is like $80k while his neurosurgeon salary would have been $800k. So yeah money isn't a problem. No matter what you do or what your degree letters say you'll be fine.

 

[Conflagration]

You could be like me and do both XD. I'll be going for an MD/PhD with computational biology track which is just a more modern/fancier way of saying mathematical biology. The only thing to keep in mind is whether you are a better biologist or a better mathematician because the two sides haven't fully merged. For a biologist systems bio is amazing and its growing crazy fast. A mathematician can really push the frontiers of our modeling capabilities but they don't always work on biomedical problems.

I believe myself to be more of a mathematician; I've presented at an academic symposium for a history of statistics. I have the opportunity to write an article and potentially becoming published this upcoming semester.

I think, if it came down to it, I would probably take the math track if I had to choose. Good hours, pretty nice pay, and if I decided biology wasn't my gig, I could work with chemists, physicists, engineers...

But holy mackerel! That makes me happy that there's math dorks like me. :3

 

[Mercurius]

The route you're going is very financially responsible. Unfortunately the route does not give you much opportunity to explore so you may need a more precise target in mind than someone going to a top 4 year university. The fact is the things I talked about w/ regard to emerging fields and new potential are amazing in an application for top schools. The small ones really do just want a typical premed born and raised locally so they can push out more family care docs. It was worse for me because my local schools didn't want just family care docs they wanted rural family care docs. While I would love to practice family medicine, rural medicine was just a step too far.

I'm sorry to have to suggest that you examine your choices especially with respect to college major because being able to explore fields in college is probably its best attribute. To make a decision look at your local medical schools and see what they are looking for and whether they might be more interested in a traditional premed to serve a needed position in society or a more nontraditional applicant to one day expand and improve medicine. Ultimately tho you should study what you are interested in. If you weren't interested in what you chose to study in undergrad the med schools won't believe that you'll be interested in medicine in the future even if you have great stats.

Additionally the CC route doesn't have as much school prestige to push you through. When I was interviewing there were tons of people from IVYs and MIT but granted I was a MD/PhD applicant. It will be harder but def. go for it.

Anyway I'm glad that you seem to be more excited now than when you wrote that depressing title and original post. Keep up that enthusiasm and you'll do fine.

What I'm getting from all of this is that obtaining an M.D. is easier and very realistic for someone who is going to a prestige school. OU med must have 75% matriculating students having strong ties to Oklahoma at least for the Tulsa Track (born and raised here). However on the OU pre-med website it says that quite a few students who have done their premed program at OU are attending top universities like -harvard-john hopkins-. Would it be more realistic to just shoot for OSU with a D.O.? Just for clarification I'm not like the majority of pre-med who went to private schools like Bishop Kelley or Holland Hall, Ill be graduating from a public school, then going to TCC, then transferring to OU-Norman. The funny thing is no one even mentioned this situation to me before. Anyway if someone goes to harvard med from OU, would it be wise to assume that Harvard students would be going to OU med? All i ever see when i do some research is the average of OU med is 3.78/31 Mcat, I dont see anything regarding which school your'e going to. The internet is very misleading or I must be just an idiot. But thanks, i never even looked at it that way and no one ever mentioned that situation to me.

 

[Doctor Dream]

What I'm getting from all of this is that obtaining an M.D. is easier and very realistic for someone who is going to a prestige school. OU med must have 75% matriculating students having strong ties to Oklahoma at least for the Tulsa Track (born and raised here). However on the OU pre-med website it says that quite a few students who have done their premed program at OU are attending top universities like -harvard-john hopkins-. Would it be more realistic to just shoot for OSU with a D.O.? Just for clarification I'm not like the majority of pre-med who went to private schools like Bishop Kelley or Holland Hall, Ill be graduating from a public school, then going to TCC, then transferring to OU-Norman. The funny thing is no one even mentioned this situation to me before. Anyway if someone goes to harvard med from OU, would it be wise to assume that Harvard students would be going to OU med? All i ever see when i do some research is the average of OU med is 3.78/31 Mcat, I dont see anything regarding which school your'e going to. The internet is very misleading or I must be just an idiot. But thanks, i never even looked at it that way and no one ever mentioned that situation to me.

This is not true at all, most of the time adcoms don't care where you did your undergrad. They may factor in GPA inflation/deflation slightly, but it's VERY minimal. I was surprised when I learned that too. Some schools favor their own undergrads sometimes, but a lot of times it doesn't really matter.

There might be more matriculants from some schools than others, simply because that school has more students, or there are more people going there who want to go in to medicine. Prestige of school you do your undergrad at has MINIMAL effect on your chances of getting accepted, unless you're going to a UG who's corresponding medical school likes to take it's BA/BS graduates.

With regards to a major you're choosing, adcoms also don't care what you choose to major in. They only care that you are successful in what you chose to major in. So pick something you like doing and go with that. That being said it's also important to do well in the pre req's for med school, even if they're not part of your major.

 

[unexpected_medicine]

What I'm getting from all of this is that obtaining an M.D. is easier and very realistic for someone who is going to a prestige school. OU med must have 75% matriculating students having strong ties to Oklahoma at least for the Tulsa Track (born and raised here). However on the OU pre-med website it says that quite a few students who have done their premed program at OU are attending top universities like -harvard-john hopkins-. Would it be more realistic to just shoot for OSU with a D.O.? Just for clarification I'm not like the majority of pre-med who went to private schools like Bishop Kelley or Holland Hall, Ill be graduating from a public school, then going to TCC, then transferring to OU-Norman. The funny thing is no one even mentioned this situation to me before. Anyway if someone goes to harvard med from OU, would it be wise to assume that Harvard students would be going to OU med? All i ever see when i do some research is the average of OU med is 3.78/31 Mcat, I dont see anything regarding which school your'e going to. The internet is very misleading or I must be just an idiot. But thanks, i never even looked at it that way and no one ever mentioned that situation to me.

It depends on which prestige school. I went to Carnegie Mellon and it didn't have great support for premeds though many of us were successful. It just took more initiative. But the education at a top school especially at a tech school like CMU or MIT pays off. Many alumni I knew who went into medicine say that the coursework isn't that much harder than undergrad which tells you how harsh a good tech school can be.

Ouch Oklahoma University...I know its a fine undergrad education (I grew up in Kansas) but I couldn't take that medical center seriously after reading this case: http://www.sskrplaw.com/lawyer-attorney-1477337.html

Probably one of the biggest ethics failures of any medical center in US history and is now a textbook case of why we need bioethics. Still that is just my personal bias. To me its like going to school in Tuskegee. I know they're trying hard to clean their image but just no not in this century.

As for the information you're looking for it will be a bit harder to find. Look under class profiles and the school may list where matriculating students went for undergrad. I know University of TN in Memphis does but others may not. It could also be under some section for diversity. Its far more sensitive information than an MCAT or GPA avg.

As for the undergrad side I wouldn't pay too much attention to the school boasting that a few students went to Harvard or Hopkins for med. That is the result of a student's hard work not the school's influence. Look for stats on how many students attempted an application and were accepted in their first, second, or third tries. This might be hard to find since it is very revealing information about the school. But, if you ask in person and they won't answer you that tells you something as well. That will tell you far more about how good the school's support is. But ultimately those are just numbers. To get a better understanding you'll have to talk to the school and alumni. Are you doing a campus visit soon? Because these are the important questions. Too often campus visits end up being shallow.

I went to public high school as well. I don't think public or private high schools will matter unless you went to phillip exeter or something and networked with the goldman or leeman ceos' kids. Note you should start clarifying education level because you're talking about both high school and college in the same post (yay good english skillz XD).

 

[TXKnight]

Why did you even consider medicine? Was you're decision based out of self-challenge, or rather a decision to expand traits of your personality, perhaps both? If you chose your medical profession out of a self-justifying reasoning which was not necessarily lucrative, why not?

Nowhere here did I read anything related to helping/caring/healing your fellow human beings. All the reasons you listed are the wrong reasons to go into medicine.

Edit: I'm on my cell phone and just realized I'm I the wrong forum. My point still holds though. Good luck.

 

[unexpected_medicine]

This is not true at all, most of the time adcoms don't care where you did your undergrad. They may factor in GPA inflation/deflation slightly, but it's VERY minimal. I was surprised when I learned that too. Some schools favor their own undergrads sometimes, but a lot of times it doesn't really matter.

There might be more matriculants from some schools than others, simply because that school has more students, or there are more people going there who want to go in to medicine. Prestige of school you do your undergrad at has MINIMAL effect on your chances of getting accepted, unless you're going to a UG who's corresponding medical school likes to take it's BA/BS graduates.

With regards to a major you're choosing, adcoms also don't care what you choose to major in. They only care that you are successful in what you chose to major in. So pick something you like doing and go with that. That being said it's also important to do well in the pre req's for med school, even if they're not part of your major.

Yeah my experience is with MD/PhD especially NIH supported programs. If you did a non-science major they sort of look at you and say, "wtf why u here gtfo." Pure med is open to everyone and for certain things an artist or humanities major would actually be better.

 

[unexpected_medicine]

Nowhere here did I read anything related to helping/caring/healing your fellow human beings. All the reasons you listed are the wrong reasons to go into medicine.

Edit: I'm on my cell phone and just realized I'm I the wrong forum. My point still holds though. Good luck.

hahahah!! plz read this thread rofl:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/deteriorating-social-skills.1069028/

specifically this part:

"fastlane said:
Connecting with and healing patients makes life more rewarding. Wouldn't want to do any specialty where I don't interact with others."
r:
You sound like a premed.

 

[TXKnight]

hahahah!! plz read this thread rofl:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/deteriorating-social-skills.1069028/

specifically this part:

"fastlane said:
Connecting with and healing patients makes life more rewarding. Wouldn't want to do any specialty where I don't interact with others."
r:
You sound like a premed.

Been accepted mate. Later.
Edit : I think the primary reasons why you go into medicine must be for the others. I would lie if s bunch of other things don't play a role too.

 

[unexpected_medicine]

This is not true at all, most of the time adcoms don't care where you did your undergrad. They may factor in GPA inflation/deflation slightly, but it's VERY minimal. I was surprised when I learned that too. Some schools favor their own undergrads sometimes, but a lot of times it doesn't really matter.

There might be more matriculants from some schools than others, simply because that school has more students, or there are more people going there who want to go in to medicine. Prestige of school you do your undergrad at has MINIMAL effect on your chances of getting accepted, unless you're going to a UG who's corresponding medical school likes to take it's BA/BS graduates.

With regards to a major you're choosing, adcoms also don't care what you choose to major in. They only care that you are successful in what you chose to major in. So pick something you like doing and go with that. That being said it's also important to do well in the pre req's for med school, even if they're not part of your major.

Its pretty hard to define just how much the school's influence matters. Ultimately its about the applicant.

But plz look at this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...aitlist-and-reapplying.1058864/#post-15187167

Specifically post by user:Fencer a MD/PhD program director who states:

I take an issue with this... Your institution has a terrific biomedical research reputation. It has a MSTP and CTSA NIH awards and ranks nationally in the top 30 medical schools by NIH funding, and top 10 universities for all research expenditures. The undergraduate college is not so selective for in-state residents, but highly selective for out-of-state residents.

the underlying message is that there are bad schools that won't be considered as strongly.

The US news ranking of a school is worthless but true prestige is deeper. The best faculty are at the best schools and you won't get the chance to work with anyone on that level going to a bad school. In fact depending on who writes the main LOR some schools are afraid of outright rejecting an undesired applicant for fear of offending the huge faculty name and will waitlist w/o any intent of ever accepting that student. I.e. if your main LOR is from the NIH director then I doubt you will be directly rejected anywhere. Yay politics lol!

 

[unexpected_medicine]

Been accepted mate. Later.

Congrats!! Best of luck on your career!

 

[TXKnight]

Congrats!! Best of luck on your career!

Thanks, like wise!

 

[Mercurius]

Its pretty hard to define just how much the school's influence matters. Ultimately its about the applicant.

But plz look at this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...aitlist-and-reapplying.1058864/#post-15187167

Specifically post by user:Fencer a MD/PhD program director who states:

I take an issue with this... Your institution has a terrific biomedical research reputation. It has a MSTP and CTSA NIH awards and ranks nationally in the top 30 medical schools by NIH funding, and top 10 universities for all research expenditures. The undergraduate college is not so selective for in-state residents, but highly selective for out-of-state residents.

the underlying message is that there are bad schools that won't be considered as strongly.

The US news ranking of a school is worthless but true prestige is deeper. The best faculty are at the best schools and you won't get the chance to work with anyone on that level going to a bad school. In fact depending on who writes the main LOR some schools are afraid of outright rejecting an undesired applicant for fear of offending the huge faculty name and will waitlist w/o any intent of ever accepting that student. I.e. if your main LOR is from the NIH director then I doubt you will be directly rejected anywhere. Yay politics lol!

There is so much on the table here. After my last post I went to Reasor's with my mom and felt so suicidal because I wanted an M.D. so bad. Now iv'e come back and I see there is more to this and I misinterpreted it to a certain degree. It's amazing how your'e life can change from a forum. I violently need to prompt you with more questions but I dont want to be annoying so I will go to bed. But thanks, youve done nothing short of a stellar job at explaining this to me and everyone viewing this. This has opened up a whole new chapter in my life.

 

[Mercurius]

Nowhere here did I read anything related to helping/caring/healing your fellow human beings. All the reasons you listed are the wrong reasons to go into medicine.

Edit: I'm on my cell phone and just realized I'm I the wrong forum. My point still holds though. Good luck.

I'm posting this topic as but a sub-section of the "whyness" of this all; particularly the financial -subsection- I'd assume your'e point as given.

 

[unexpected_medicine]

There is so much on the table here. After my last post I went to Reasor's with my mom and felt so suicidal because I wanted an M.D. so bad. Now iv'e come back and I see there is more to this and I misinterpreted it to a certain degree. It's amazing how your'e life can change from a forum. I violently need to prompt you with more questions but I dont want to be annoying so I will go to bed. But thanks, youve done nothing short of a stellar job at explaining this to me and everyone viewing this. This has opened up a whole new chapter in my life.

Man LOL to go from undecided to wanting medicine that bad guess our job is done XD. Feel free to shoot me any questions. I didn't get some of the information I needed till it was too late but I was more undecided. Sorry for bashing OU that hard it has a great reputation now and it sounds like they have a great premed program. I just couldn't get over their past disaster personally.

 

[Doctor Dream]

The best people to ask questions about medical school and applying and stuff on this forum are Goro, LizzyM, gyngyn, and Catalystik. They're all adcoms (people who review med apps and responsible for admitting people to their respective schools). They're always willing to give great advice about your endeavors, and can do a better job of answering your med school questions than pretty much anyone else on this forum. They're a more credible source for information than anyone on this page (no offense guys )

 

[pointystar]

Contrary to popular belief, medicine in the USA is a pretty stable and high paying job. I don't think there is another career that pays a stable $250k a year and okay hours. It makes up around 27% of the top 1% income earners in USA. Doctors that practice in countries with universal healthcare make significantly less than US doctors. This just proves that doctors in the USA are not all noble and goodwill. The fact that there is so much blast about Obamacare and universal healthcare just proves that doctors still care about money a LOT. My family aren't in a good financial position and when Obamacare rolled in, they took the opportunity as soon as possible. They are very grateful for this chance and praise Obama whenever they can. I understand Obamacare has its problem, but its the first step to progressive universal health-care. A $20,000 appendicitis? America's culture of don't help your neighbors has managed to clearly partition out the rich and poor.

So the point of this was, there is always a financial incentive for doctors. Don't think some doctors aren't in for the money, since they damn well care about the money. Don't think of this post as an attack to American doctors, but to rethink the situation. I understand there is political clout surrounding this entire healthcare debate, so don't think I am solely blaming doctors.

 

[unexpected_medicine]

Contrary to popular belief, medicine in the USA is a pretty stable and high paying job. I don't think there is another career that pays a stable $250k a year and okay hours. It makes up around 27% of the top 1% income earners in USA. Doctors that practice in countries with universal healthcare make significantly less than US doctors. This just proves that doctors in the USA are not all noble and goodwill. The fact that there is so much blast about Obamacare and universal healthcare just proves that doctors still care about money a LOT. My family aren't in a good financial position and when Obamacare rolled in, they took the opportunity as soon as possible. They are very grateful for this chance and praise Obama whenever they can. I understand Obamacare has its problem, but its the first step to progressive universal health-care. A $20,000 appendicitis? America's culture of don't help your neighbors has managed to clearly partition out the rich and poor.

So the point of this was, there is always a financial incentive for doctors. Don't think some doctors aren't in for the money, since they damn well care about the money. Don't think of this post as an attack to American doctors, but to rethink the situation. I understand there is political clout surrounding this entire healthcare debate, so don't think I am solely blaming doctors.

To reiterate my above post, you're talking with med applicants and accepted students. We've convinced ourselves that money doesn't matter. Most of us I think will start changing our minds once we start holding our debt payment checks. Luckily I won't have that problem XD.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

It's like the blind leading the blind in here.

 

[unexpected_medicine]

well no one really high up posting...guess they got put off by the $$s questions

 

[Doctor Dream]

It's like the blind leading the blind in here.

You're more than welcome to enlighten me, my friend.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

You're more than welcome to enlighten me, my friend.

Was more of a general observation, not targeting a specific poster. However, if I recall correctly, you made a comment about easily making 800k in an ortho or ophtho practice, which is very, very optimistic.

Also, your comment about wanting a job with a lot of stress is a little...well.....I think you may change your opinion in due time.

 

[Doctor Dream]

Was more of a general observation, not targeting a specific poster. However, if I recall correctly, you made a comment about easily making 800k in an ortho or ophtho practice, which is very, very optimistic.

Also, your comment about wanting a job with a lot of stress is a little...well.....I think you may change your opinion in due time.

I see. Well I wasn't implying that every ophthalmologist is walking around with a pay grade that high, but I know some make BIG bucks off of it. One of my profs has two brothers who are ophthalmologists. They make bank off of doing cataract surgeries day in and day out. I forget how much they charge, but they can do at least 40 per day, each. They have multiple houses, private helicopters, bowling alleys in the basement, you name it. Also, it's not unrealistic for ortho surgeons to make that kind of money, they're probably one of the best compensated specialties. Maybe "easy" wasn't the proper word, but it's definitely possible for pay to get that high.

As far as wanting a stressful job, no one would be interested in medicine if they didn't want a stressful job. Doctors have very stressful jobs, but with the stress comes great rewards. I doubt my decision to pursue a career in family medicine will change. I've shadowed and seen the garbage that primary care physicians have to deal with, have talked with them about it, and I'm willing to accept it. The positives of the job in my mind outweigh that.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I see. Well I wasn't implying that every ophthalmologist is walking around with a pay grade that high, but I know some make BIG bucks off of it. One of my profs has two brothers who are ophthalmologists. They make bank off of doing cataract surgeries day in and day out. I forget how much they charge, but they can do at least 40 per day, each. They have multiple houses, private helicopters, bowling alleys in the basement, you name it. Also, it's not unrealistic for ortho surgeons to make that kind of money, they're probably one of the best compensated specialties. Maybe "easy" wasn't the proper word, but it's definitely possible for pay to get that high.

As far as wanting a stressful job, no one would be interested in medicine if they didn't want a stressful job. Doctors have very stressful jobs, but with the stress comes great rewards. I doubt my decision to pursue a career in family medicine will change. I've shadowed and seen the garbage that primary care physicians have to deal with, have talked with them about it, and I'm willing to accept it. The positives of the job in my mind outweigh that.

Fair enough. I will say, however, that most people probably enter medicine despite the stress, not because of it.

 

[Doctor Dream]

Fair enough. I will say, however, that most people probably enter medicine despite the stress, not because of it.

Yea that's kind of what I was implying. I don't know many people who want a certain job because they like being stressed out