Debt as a physician scientist (worth transferring in to MSTP)?

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fds86

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Currently about to start on the MD-only track this fall. I've been very into research for a while (3 years in undergrad + 2 gap years) and was on the verge of applying MD/PhD, but ended up going with MD only since my scientific interests are more clinical/translational (clinical neuroimaging) and might not require a PhD, combined with reading some stuff on this site that is rather down on the funding environment/opportunity to "make it" as an 80:20 physician scientist. I reasoned that if I wasn't 100% sure of what I wanted to do in the end, I should just fall on the side of MD only.

The problem is that over the course of the application cycle, I feel like I've been moving closer and closer to the idea of eventually pursuing grants and spending a reasonable chunk of my effort on research, in a lower compensation specialty (psych/neuro). However, I'm set to take on a good chunk of debt as well, probably somewhere around 250k over the course of four years. In talking with young faculty that I know, I was only recently made aware of how low compensation can be (i.e. like 90k as a new assistant professor and maybe like 180k as an associate professor with your first R01), and it seems like it would really be tough to pay that debt back. I know there are NIH loan-payback grants and the 10 year not-for-profit service thing, but who knows whether those will last long enough for me to get through training and use them.

I know the conventional wisdom is not to do MD/PhD for the financial reasons, since it takes you 3-4 years longer to reach your attending salary and balances out, but some of my MD-only physician scientist mentors have been sort of pushing me to try to transfer into my school's MSTP program for a financial benefit. They argue that even though it "evens out" having less loans makes choosing your research interests less stressful and allows you to make investments/portfolios that build money for retirement. Does this sort of argument hold weight/is it worth considering trying to transfer in?

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Currently about to start on the MD-only track this fall. I've been very into research for a while (3 years in undergrad + 2 gap years) and was on the verge of applying MD/PhD, but ended up going with MD only since my scientific interests are more clinical/translational (clinical neuroimaging) and might not require a PhD, combined with reading some stuff on this site that is rather down on the funding environment/opportunity to "make it" as an 80:20 physician scientist. I reasoned that if I wasn't 100% sure of what I wanted to do in the end, I should just fall on the side of MD only.

The problem is that over the course of the application cycle, I feel like I've been moving closer and closer to the idea of eventually pursuing grants and spending a reasonable chunk of my effort on research, in a lower compensation specialty (psych/neuro). However, I'm set to take on a good chunk of debt as well, probably somewhere around 250k over the course of four years. In talking with young faculty that I know, I was only recently made aware of how low compensation can be (i.e. like 90k as a new assistant professor and maybe like 180k as an associate professor with your first R01), and it seems like it would really be tough to pay that debt back. I know there are NIH loan-payback grants and the 10 year not-for-profit service thing, but who knows whether those will last long enough for me to get through training and use them.

I know the conventional wisdom is not to do MD/PhD for the financial reasons, since it takes you 3-4 years longer to reach your attending salary and balances out, but some of my MD-only physician scientist mentors have been sort of pushing me to try to transfer into my school's MSTP program for a financial benefit. They argue that even though it "evens out" having less loans makes choosing your research interests less stressful and allows you to make investments/portfolios that build money for retirement. Does this sort of argument hold weight/is it worth considering trying to transfer in?
Just as an FYI, the NIH LRPs are renewable to till debt is relieved. Now, they cap at $35K annually, so you’d have to renew a couple times in the 2 year cycle, but technically, they could pay off all the debt assuming the research is good.
 
For what it's worth I really think the financial issue is actually very important. Debt really limits your options as a new attending, and can make a serious difference in your ability to do a research fellowship for $80K vs go straight to clinical attending job for $200K plus. It's not your lifetime earnings that will be relevant to that decision, it's your immediate post-residency cash flow which is likely to be tight if you are carrying med school debt. Yes LRP could be equivalent but those are competitive also so there's no guarantee you will get one.
 
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Just as an FYI, the NIH LRPs are renewable to till debt is relieved. Now, they cap at $35K annually, so you’d have to renew a couple times in the 2 year cycle, but technically, they could pay off all the debt assuming the research is good.

Thanks for the tip, that's good to hear. But with a debt burden that's grown up past 300k through interest in residency/fellowship, it seems like it could still be pretty demanding to pay it off even with an indefinitely renewable 35k. Maybe it's a little bit paranoid, but I also feel a tiny bit nervous about whether the program will still be present/funded in ~10 years when I'm finished with residency/fellowship.

For what it's worth I really think the financial issue is actually very important. Debt really limits your options as a new attending, and can make a serious difference in your ability to do a research fellowship for $80K vs go straight to clinical attending job for $200K plus. It's not your lifetime earnings that will be relevant to that decision, it's your immediate post-residency cash flow which is likely to be tight if you are carrying med school debt. Yes LRP could be equivalent but those are competitive also so there's no guarantee you will get one.

This is the sort of thing that some of the younger MD-only physician-scientist attendings have been telling me about and it makes some sense to me - as I get closer to starting, I definitely start to feel the temptation to look towards something with better compensation so I don't have to be stressed about massive debt through my 30s. I guess the hard part is that I'm not 100% certain of what I want to do and you have to sort of take a leap of faith - I know I like research and have a pretty good understanding of what life as a PI would look like, but I haven't really practiced clinical medicine. Who knows, I could love medicine significantly more than research, or vice-versa. There's also the issue that Neuronix et al. have pointed out for the last few years on this forum, which is that a large chunk (the majority?) of MSTP graduates will end up doing clinical medicine anyway. I guess you can argue it's still worth it if there's even some chance that you'll end up as a PI, and even if you're doing clinical medicine you can still indirectly benefit from the PhD.
 
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