Debt load

Veterinary Science Graduate Programs from U. of I.
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CBRGrl said:
For tax purposes, you can deduct the INTEREST you pay on your loans, but not the whole payment amount. Sorry!
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So for starters, you can deduct the interest you pay, but only up to some dollar amount (I want to say $2,000, but I'm not sure). But then the dirty little secret that is never talked about is that the deduction is phased out between $55,000 and $70,000. Meaning they use some formula to give you a portion of what you payed as a deduction. I think one year I paid the full amount of interest (we'll say $2,000), but only qualified for 10% of that as a deduction. So I got a whopping $200 deduction. Further, after your AGI reaches $70,000 (filing as a single person), you get ZERO deduction for any interest you've paid on your student loan.

So if you're figuring your payback scheme with an estimated income of over $70K, you can forget any interest deduction. Sorry.

http://www.irs.gov/formspubs/article/0,,id=178005,00.html

EDIT:
That "sorry" sounded obnoxious when I re-read it. I really meant it to sound sincere! I'm sorry that taxes suck!😳
 
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I hate taxes. They make less sense to me than organic chemistry.. and that's saying something. 🙂

We'll be hiring an accountant once we have a bit more going on... thankfully, things are still pretty simple right now.
 
twelvetigers said:
We'll be hiring an accountant once we have a bit more going on... thankfully, things are still pretty simple right now.
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Well, that gives me a more positive outlook on my situation. No CPA fees. No deductions to figure out. I knew there was something good about being broke! :laugh:
 
Just throwing this out there, but I'd be lying if I denied that financial considerations are in my mind as I look at combined DVM/PhD programs. I want to go into academics anyway, so it's not that I'm looking into these programs just for the money, but if it's between doing a combined program and doing a residency/PhD, it seems that it would be stupid to pass up an opportunity to graduate with little or at least less debt. As a friend said to me the other day when we were discussing IS vs. OOS (DVM-only) programs, the difference between IS and OOS tuition could translate down the road to the difference between being able to afford a horse and a comfortable apartment right out of residency and not being able to afford a horse until I'm much older.
 
Ok, this way brought to my attention the other day and I was wondering if anyone else could shed some light on it? Are students automatically qualified for student loans, or can you be denied due to debt load and debt/income ratios, or if the qualifications are automatic, do they stick it to you by the interest rate being unbearable? Someone told me that your loan could be denied based on your credit score!
 
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hopenpray said:
Ok, this way brought to my attention the other day and I was wondering if anyone else could shed some light on it? Are students automatically qualified for student loans, or can you be denied due to debt load and debt/income ratios, or if the qualifications are automatic, do they stick it to you by the interest rate being unbearable? Someone told me that your loan could be denied based on your credit score!
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I think that only applies if you borrow from a private lender...which, in this economy, NO ONE would advise trying to do. I am pretty sure you can get a federal loan regardless of your current debt.
 
hopenpray said:
Are students automatically qualified for student loans, or can you be denied due to debt load and debt/income ratios, or if the qualifications are automatic, do they stick it to you by the interest rate being unbearable?
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GradPLUS loans can be denied based on your credit history.
 
eek, i did my fafsa assuming i wouldn't get in. i said i didn't want to be considered for loans...i think i should go change that now!
 
I haven't researched enough yet but since people are in 6 digits of debt,
are there no scholarships for VM schools?
 
littlesooyon92 said:
I haven't researched enough yet but since people are in 6 digits of debt,
are there no scholarships for VM schools?
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There are a few significant ones out there (pays big portions of your tuition/debt) but they're very specific in terms of either location/type of practice. They're definitely not for everyone (for instance, as a small animal person from urban New England with no interest in the army, there really isn't much out there for me). They also usually require a certain number of years of commitment to do whatever it is that you're getting the scholarship for. And they're pretty competitive, even if you fit the criteria. There is also a program that will pay back a significant portion of your loans for working in an underserved area... but the catch there is that though a good part of your loans will be taken care of, many of these places don't have the economy to support a vet practice (which is the reason why they're underserved), so you don't have a financially stable vet business to generate an income for you to live off of. There are also a few combined DVM/PhD programs that will pay your DVM tuition and give you the standard PhD stipends... but that's only if you really want to go into research, and it's competitive and you will have needed significant experience beforehand.

Otherwise, there are some for hundreds to a few thousand dollars here and there. Every penny counts... but not really something to dig you out of a hole. There is a loan forgiveness program if you work for 10 years full time in public service (gov't, non-profit, academia, etc...), where you pay back on the IBR plan which caps your repayment at like 15% (?) of your income for 10 years, and whatever you don't pay back goes POOF!. Tadaaaa~! Anyone with federal loans, is able to get loan forgiveness after 25 years while on the IBR plan as well... but for that, you must pay income tax on the amount you never paid (the big catch). Caveat for both is, no one knows if the government will be able to support this program in the long term, and so there's uncertainty as to whether we actually will benefit or not.

So yeah, there's some stuff out there, but I wouldn't count on it.
 
I'm right there with you. I owe 100K+ from undergrad alone (graduating this semester, thank god), and vet school may double my debt. When I was 18, I decided that I was going to go to a fancy private school...who lets an 18 year old make a decision like that?! 🙄

Anyway, there is really no point in stressing out about the debt you already have. All you can do it make choices that will decrease your debt and make your life easier in the future. I recommend being completely aware of how much you owe and how serious your situation may or may not. I avoided looking at my numbers for quite a while because they horrified me, but not being aware of the seriousness of debt may land you in some more.

I also recommend paying off any debt you can right now, if you are able. You should try to get a payment plan and work on any smaller unsubsidized loans. I know it's hard to think about tackling the debt now, but you will thank yourself later.

Watch what you spend. I don't know about you, but it was really easy for me to see a lump sum in my bank account and think of that money as mine, but it's not. Every dollar you spend today is more than a dollar you'll have to spend later. Avoid going out to eat often (and Starbucks, as hard as that may be!). Set a realistic budget for yourself.

But, most importantly, don't worry too much about it. Thinking about something you can't change is useless and will only cause you to be unhappy and likely unhealthy. Life is too short to worry about matters in the past. So spend wisely, tackle the situation, and enjoy life!
 
Way different from everyone else, i'll be out with no debt.

Thank god for living in canada, having incredible parents and OSAP grants. My total tuition will be around 2000 a year for vet school, it's actually less than what i paid in undergrad..

I really don't know how you guys deal, serious kudos to you 👍
 
I live in Canada too. My total debt is roughly $50 000 after earning a 4-year degree. $40 000 of that is loans and $10 000 is a line of credit. My loans covered tuition and rent each year, but it did not cover other expenses like books, groceries, transportation, etc. so in my second year I got a job! Then I realized that what you make during the school year gets deducted from your loan the following year, so I was still tacking on debt to my line of credit.
If I get in to vet school, the estimated cost is $120 000 and I really have no idea how I am going to afford it. It sounds like I will have to take out a line of credit for professional students. I wish I had the money to apply internationally, but the thought of accumulating that much more bank debt is frightening.
 
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There's a long thread on student loans over on VIN (the website for veterinarians)... and the entire thread starts with a cry for help from a recent graduate of a Carribean school. She is currently paying $1000/month on her student loans, with most of them in deferment/forbearance... but her payments will soon increase to $3000/month, which is 70% OF HER SALARY. Because many of these are private loans, she's not eligible for income-based repayment, consolidation, or any of those other options.

In addition to that, it has been discussed there are a number of states that will actually revoke your veterinary license for failure to pay on your loans.

Thought you guys may find that interesting. So freakin' sad 🙁
 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...XddFQ4ZFQ3dUJ5YlFQTXdfWjBrV3VVQ2c&output=html

Here's the current list of states that will deny your license application or renewal if you are in default on your loans.
Everybody needs to check out IBR- ridiculously low monthly payments (MAX 15% of your pay, scheduled to go down to 10% in 2014) and forgiveness after 25yrs and PSLF- work for a non-profit, a university (yes, internship and residency counts!) or a government for ten years and the rest of what you owe is gone.
What's good is that you can step in and out of IBR- any time your payment would be lower under a standard repayment plan you just step out of it; step back in if that changes. Best is that under PSLF full time is only 30 hours a week. So pull 3 12's a week at a non-profit for cash and to maintain your debt forgiveness qualification, build your own practice or work another full time job on the side.
The two can be combined.
 
Yes, I looked into IBR for my son who is a law student. The tuition at his law school is actually more than any vet school...however, law school is only three years and not four. Since he wants to be a public defender, IBR is the perfect thing for his situation. I assume, also, that people who work only part-time can do IBR, too?
 
just the thought of paying for vet school makes me nauseous...i'm already ~$55,000 in debt from undergrad (all federal loans).

boo 🙁 but i've come to accept that there will never be a period of my life where i DON'T owe money and i'm prepared to be poor for the rest of my life 🙄

first step is to actually get into vet school this time around though! 🙂
 
Bisbee said:
Yes, I looked into IBR for my son who is a law student. The tuition at his law school is actually more than any vet school...however, law school is only three years and not four. Since he wants to be a public defender, IBR is the perfect thing for his situation. I assume, also, that people who work only part-time can do IBR, too?
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I believe anyone can do IBR, but, only monthly payments made while you are working full-time in a non-profit count for the 10 year forgiveness.

Question though... so the government is so poor they're yanking away even subsidized loans (which for us is just interest while you're still in school on whatever you accumulate taking out ~$8k/year). And that was done very quickly without much forewarning. What are the chances that the 10 and 25 year loan forgiveness programs will survive (at least for another 3-5 years before all of us graduate and can hopefully be grandfathered in)?
 
Yes. The government is so up-in-the-air and cutting programs all over. It's hard to count on anything right now. I guess we can only proceed with the current information and hope that the economy gets better in time. It has to, right?
 
Bisbee said:
Yes, I looked into IBR for my son who is a law student. The tuition at his law school is actually more than any vet school...however, law school is only three years and not four. Since he wants to be a public defender, IBR is the perfect thing for his situation. I assume, also, that people who work only part-time can do IBR, too?
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Sorry, but there is something that irks me about someone pursuing an expensive professional degree and then expecting a government subsidy for that degree while working in that profession part-time?
 
There is one recent graduate I know who is only (so far) able to find a part-time job doing spay/neuter clinics. Also, another woman is working part-time in a practice while her kids are in school and then able to be home when they get home from school.
 
The recent graduate only having a part-time job does say that veterinary medicine is oversaturated which begs the question of why does it need subsidizing to produce more of what there is little demand for and part-time means taxpayers will pay more of the veterinary school debt under IBR. Unsound economically.
 
Yes; so true. I was thinking about that, too. Also, I have no way of knowing the financial situations of these two vets. I don't know if they have loans they are still paying off or if they even took any out in the first place. If not, then I guess they can work part-time without any obligations.
 
Bisbee said:
Yes; so true. I was thinking about that, too. Also, I have no way of knowing the financial situations of these two vets. I don't know if they have loans they are still paying off or if they even took any out in the first place. If not, then I guess they can work part-time without any obligations.
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You also do not know their personal situations. For instance, they may not be willing or able to relocate where there are full-time jobs available. If this situation were more common, IE xx% of new grads cannot find new employment, then it will raise a red flag.
 
At the time of the survey, 97.5% (2,421/2,483) of respondents indicated they were actively seeking employment or advanced education in veterinary medicine. The remainder of respondents (2.5% [62]) indicated that they were not actively seeking such positions.
...
Among respondents seeking veterinary positions, 74.3% (1,798) had received ≥ 1 offer of employment or advanced education, a decrease from 2010 (78.9% [1,827/2,316]) and 2009 (79.5% [1,817/2,286])....The mean number of offers received by individual respondents who received at least 1 offer of employment was 1.6 in 2011, compared with 1.7 in 2010.

From the Oct 1 2011 issue of JAVMA-the annual survey of employment, salary and debt of new grads.
 
Does anyone know which school has the lowest OOS tuition?
 
sumstorm said:
It wasn't an insinuation. It was based on the following comments on this thread:

"I just try not to think about it, and i'm going to do my best to make a decision based on programs, not on cost, no matter how hard it is to seperate it out. Also, I tell myself every morning - 'Yes, I might be in debt for decades after i graduate, but i'm going to love what i'm doing while i pay it off." that really helps with the stress of it."

"I'm going in with the mindset that I'll be paying them off until I die. That way, if I sit down with a financial planner later and find out I'll pay them off before I die, I'll be pleasantly surprised!"

Ignoring debt, or the potential of debt, is not reasonable or logical. In my opinion, intentionally not thinking about an issue IS a blatant rejection of the importance of that issue. I did NOT say you were ignoring the importance of the issue, I said that I detest the attitude, which was stated, as noted above. We aren't talking about just being in debt. We are talking about people who may eventually have to declare bankruptcy (which does NOT forgive subsidized loans.) We are talking about people intentionally shoving reality out of thier minds because they don't want to think about it. Assuming that you will die in 25 years (the max for HPSL, which I think is the longest) isn't rational either. I realize the latter wasn't quite the way they are probably thinking, but rather that they will spend so much repaying loans that they will have to work to the day they die to provide for themselves.

Obviously, because the topic is out here, there is absolutly no reason for anyone to say 'I don't understand what it means to have that much debt.' At this point, if you don't know, it is time to find out. Talk to a financial advisor NOW. Ask someone in your undergrad/grad program's finacial aid office to sit down and go over what the numbers actually mean to you. Approach a mentor who has money sense and ask them to go over what this debt will mean in the future. Walk into your bank and ask a loan officer to go over it with you, and explain what it will mean.

Inexperience, or difficulty grasping a concept is not a good reason to ignore it. Treat your future finances like you would a pre-req for vet school; if you don't understand, you work on it till you figure it out, or get help to figure it out. You wouldn't decide not to learn about oxidation reactions because you haven't experienced them, or they don't make perfect sense when you first think hear/read about them.... except when talking about finances we aren't talking about flunking a test or a class. We are talking about the potential to be homeless and pennyless and STILL owe money.

The government and other lending institutions aren't going to say 'its ok, we get that you didn't understand what you were getting into with educational debt, here is a pass.' They aren't doing it with homes now, which actually are a form of collateral. I have helped friends through bankruptcy....people who make far more than vets, who didn't realize that thier student debt will NOT go away with the bankruptcy.

It isn't the issue of having to work for the rest of your life....it is the issue that you may not be able to manage the payments on the minimal required schedule, especially if ANYTHING goes wrong (illness, pregnancy, natural disaster, personal disaster, lay off, bad economy, identity theft, etc.)

Again, I don't know your situation, and I don't know if you are blatantly ignoring the issue of finances or not. I was responding specificly to comments on this and other threads that amount to 'I don't think or want to think about finances and what they will really mean down the road.'

Of course, it is just my opinion, based on my experience, which ranges from living on a farm where we worked long hours to not have enough food on the table for the first 5 years of the farm's existance, to living out of my car (yes, literally homeless), to owning a bed & breakfast on 5 acres of land and bringing in more income in a year than I have in the past four years of working more than full time.

If you take the time to figure it out now, to understand it and plan for it, you can set yourself up to have a solid foundation finacially coming out of vet school with an awareness of what your financial goals are so that you can obtain what you want, whether that is living near poverty or relatively well off. The reason to know and understand finances is so that you can do what you want with your life as a vet. This knowledge means you make decisions that can enable you, in the future, to pusue your passion (donating services, supporting rescues, buying better equipment, owning a practice, researching a specific interest, etc.)

Of course, just my opinion, so your milage may vary.
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I completely agree with this, yes it is harsh, but that is reality. After a divorce I had over $30,000 in loans and credit cards, I made the mistake of moving home to a place where jobs are few and far between. Needless to say I lost my car, was harassed by debt collectors, and it took me 5 years to somewhat take care of it all, still owe about $600 and my credit score is crap. I think a lot of people look at student loans differently than other debt, no accusations here because I was the same. The reality is that its all money that you will owe, so I think it is definitely a good idea to plan and gain as much knowledge as possible before going into that much debt, and figure out what is realistic. Although we are all guaranteed to come out of vet school with debt, it will be a lot less stress to already know that it won't take over your life. I know just personally I want to be out of debt before my husband retires from the USMC which will be about 5 years after I graduate (hopefully), so it isn't realistic for me to come out of school with 200k in debt. This may not be as helpful for those about to start vet school but if you have a little time I would suggest looking into Upromise, high yield savings accounts, etc. With Upromise you can even have family and friends sign up and have savings go to you, it's a pretty neat concept. I just keep hoping that when I apply I will only get accepted to my IS because if I don't it will be very hard for me to choose between want to and should. 😀
 
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