Deciding between Widener and Kean or William Paterson (PsyD)

[njpsychs]

Hey everyone.

I've been very lucky with my offers and think I've narrowed it down to these three.

Widener sits as my top choice primarily because of the PsyD/MBA dual degree opportunity. It also helps that I can pursue a school certification that shouldn't be too hard to transfer back over into NJ. My only concern, which also is one of the pros of Widener, is that it has a captive internship. Does anyone have experience or knowledge of how captive internships are viewed post grad or when applying for residency?

William Paterson and Kean are both much more affordable options. Both William Paterson and Kean have opportunities for me to teach as adjunct and earn a stipend that will help with tuition (though academics its not something I'm considering to pursue later in my career). They are much smaller programs and more research based. Research was not something I was looking forward to during the application process, but I made good connections with the faculty during my interviews so now am much more receptive to the challenge. Most faculty seems to be from a PhD background. William Paterson is accredited on contingency (they just had their first class go through the internship match) and Kean is relatively recently accredited as well. I am left feeling more confident about the clinical training I would get at Widener.

Im coming into the PsyD with undergrad debt and debt from my M.A in forensic psych.

Do recent grads recommend I take on the additional debt and pursue these specializations at Widener (despite the captive internship) or will these more affordable programs still make me competitive?

(btw, I'm planning on declining offers from Adler, Wright Institute, William James, and Carlow)

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[ClinicalABA]

...Do recent grads recommend I take on the additional debt and pursue these specializations at Widener (despite the captive internship) or will these more affordable programs still make me competitive?...

Widener is crazy expensive, and if you do it with loans (in addition to your existing undergrad and graduate loans), you will likely be screwed by HUGE monthly payments that will be CRIPPLING for the next several decades, even if you are in the top 20 percent of earners in the field. Captive internship is good in the sense that it takes the uncertainty out of the process, but bad in the sense that your options are somewhat limited. Note that none of this even gets into whether or not it’s a good program. Also, cohort sizes are in th 30s, which isn’t great relative to the other programs you mentioned.

Outcome data for Kean is relatively poor- match rates 62 or lower over the past 10 years with the exception of last year (100%). There was one year with only 11%. I’d be sure to ask someone there why last year WAS NOT an outlier. Also, licensure rate of 62% is bad.

Outcome data for William Patterson... umm...doesn’t exist yet!?! This seems to be new program, with no graduates yet. That’s a huge crapshoot at any expense. Yo have no objective data as to whether or not it’s an effective, let alone good, program. Having already spent money on an MA, with these options on the table you need to think long and hard whether or not any of these choices make good financial sense- they all have their risks and it would be a shame to dig yourself into a deep (deeper?) financial hole. Sorry- may not be the news you’re looking for, but-seriously- these programs come with some big risks.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

(btw, I'm planning on declining offers from Adler, Wright Institute, William James, and Carlow)

That is a wise decision.

Of the three, I'd recommend William Patterson. Widener is too expensive and Kean does not seem great. While WP is new, the orientation of the program seems much more favorable to getting good training/opportunities.

 

[forcefive17]

Can only speak to Widener. Of the philly area schools, this one has the best reputation. Regarding the captive internship program, my hunch would be that if you're staying in the philly metro area (to include southern Jersey), it wouldn't limit you. At the end of the day, it's an APA-Accredited Internship from a regionally recognized APA-Accredited school. Though expensive, I believe they have a whole bunch of paid assistantships which can offset cost. I'd check into that. Furthermore, this is one of the oldest Psy.D. programs that has been able to maintain accreditation. To me, that's worth something (if it doesn't lead to crippling debt).

 

[SchoolClinical]

Outcome data for Kean is relatively poor- match rates 62 or lower over the past 10 years with the exception of last year (100%). There was one year with only 11%. I’d be sure to ask someone there why last year WAS NOT an outlier. Also, licensure rate of 62% is bad.

Kean student here. Last year's match rate of 100% was not an outlier despite results from previous years. The listed match rates are from the last 10 years, and keep in mind that the program is only around 10 years old. So the first 6ish years of data were from a non APA accredited program. They were accredited (got the max 7 years) in 2016, and in the last 3 years since, the name has really gotten around (in a good way). In the last several years, Kean students have matched at excellent "big-name" externships and internships. An indication that last year's 100% match rate was not a fluke is that this current year, they matched 100% as well (just isn't posted online yet - this just happened in the last month or two.)

Also, regarding licensure, all Kean grads that have taken the EPPP passed the first time, with one exception (passed the second time). With regard to percentages, some don't take it if they are more interested in pursuing just school psychology (it's a combined program).

Hope this helps!

 

[ClinicalABA]

Kean student here. Last year's match rate of 100% was not an outlier despite results from previous years. The listed match rates are from the last 10 years, and keep in mind that the program is only around 10 years old. So the first 6ish years of data were from a non APA accredited program. They were accredited (got the max 7 years) in 2016, and in the last 3 years since, the name has really gotten around (in a good way). In the last several years, Kean students have matched at excellent "big-name" externships and internships. An indication that last year's 100% match rate was not a fluke is that this current year, they matched 100% as well (just isn't posted online yet - this just happened in the last month or two.)

Also, regarding licensure, all Kean grads that have taken the EPPP passed the first time, with one exception (passed the second time). With regard to percentages, some don't take it if they are more interested in pursuing just school psychology (it's a combined program).

Hope this helps!

Thanks for your response. Hopefully that’s helpful for the OPer. Sounds like trends are being established in the right direction.

 

[njpsychs]

That is a wise decision.

Of the three, I'd recommend William Patterson. Widener is too expensive and Kean does not seem great. While WP is new, the orientation of the program seems much more favorable to getting good training/opportunities.

Thanks for your comment! I'm curious what you think makes the program more favorable to getting good training/opportunities.

 

[njpsychs]

Thanks for your response. Hopefully that’s helpful for the OPer. Sounds like trends are being established in the right direction.

I appreciate your comments. tough choice ahead.

I have been offered a merit scholarship from widener. So that drops the tuition (after considering tuition remission related to the captive internship) down to around 130k. This would allow me to check out the MBA-HCM dual degree while also getting a school certification.

Kean costs under 100k and still is getting me a school cert.

William Paterson seems to fall about 60k. As I am entering with a M.A. I have the opportunity to join as adjunct faculty as soon as fall 2020; this would get me 6 credits of tuition remission plus some pay each semester I end up following through. With all the risk (and even while lacking the school cert I value) its a tough offer to refuse.

 

[SchoolClinical]

I appreciate your comments. tough choice ahead.

I have been offered a merit scholarship from widener. So that drops the tuition (after considering tuition remission related to the captive internship) down to around 130k. This would allow me to check out the MBA-HCM dual degree while also getting a school certification.

Kean costs under 100k and still is getting me a school cert.

William Paterson seems to fall about 60k. As I am entering with a M.A. I have the opportunity to join as adjunct faculty as soon as fall 2020; this would get me 6 credits of tuition remission plus some pay each semester I end up following through. With all the risk (and even while lacking the school cert I value) its a tough offer to refuse.

Yup, tough call. Nice that you have decent options though! Happy to answer any questions you have about Kean, and I know people in WP too if there's anything you would like to know.

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Thanks for your comment! I'm curious what you think makes the program more favorable to getting good training/opportunities.

William Paterson seems to fall about 60k.

I've looked into their faculty and the goals of the programs. I am also skeptical of places that prioritize costs.

 

[chicandtoughness]

Did you get the assistantship from William Paterson? For those who don't know, select incoming students (I assume it's merit-based) get full tuition remission and stipend.

 

[njpsychs]

Did you get the assistantship from William Paterson? For those who don't know, select incoming students (I assume it's merit-based) get full tuition remission and stipend.

Yes I did, it’s a great offer Im not sure I can refuse. just nervous with the risk around the program.

 

[futureapppsy2]

Yes I did, it’s a great offer Im not sure I can refuse. just nervous with the risk around the program.

If you have funding, go there. It’s very likely that a program accredited on contingency will later be accredited in full. 🙂

 

[mypointlesspov]

If you have funding, go there. It’s very likely that a program accredited on contingency will later be accredited in full. 🙂

I second this! I know earlier I said that I hadn't heard a lot about it other than one person's bad experience (PM me if you want more info), but having funding is so important.

 

[njpsychs]

Hey everyone, thanks for the support. Spoke with Kean today and got offered full tuition remission, so I plan on going with this option.

 

[mypointlesspov]

Hey everyone, thanks for the support. Spoke with Kean today and got offered full tuition remission, so I plan on going with this option.

Wow, you must be a super competitive applicant! Best of luck to you!

 

[futureapppsy2]

Hey everyone, thanks for the support. Spoke with Kean today and got offered full tuition remission, so I plan on going with this option.

Sounds like a great choice! Congrats!

 

[Kay2018]

Hey everyone, thanks for the support. Spoke with Kean today and got offered full tuition remission, so I plan on going with this option.

Congrats!!

Could you share your GRE, GPA, Research Experience details. I just would like to take some advise on how to improvise my credentials. I currently stand at 3.02 overall GPA, just have completed B.S Psychology, taking GRE in August, aspiring to apply to a Psy.D program for 2020 Fall. I am woring as a volunteer RA in two labs for 10 hrs a week while I am preparing for my GRE this summer.

 

[ClinSchoolPsycher]

Widener is crazy expensive, and if you do it with loans (in addition to your existing undergrad and graduate loans), you will likely be screwed by HUGE monthly payments that will be CRIPPLING for the next several decades, even if you are in the top 20 percent of earners in the field. Captive internship is good in the sense that it takes the uncertainty out of the process, but bad in the sense that your options are somewhat limited. Note that none of this even gets into whether or not it’s a good program. Also, cohort sizes are in th 30s, which isn’t great relative to the other programs you mentioned.

Outcome data for Kean is relatively poor- match rates 62 or lower over the past 10 years with the exception of last year (100%). There was one year with only 11%. I’d be sure to ask someone there why last year WAS NOT an outlier. Also, licensure rate of 62% is bad.

Outcome data for William Patterson... umm...doesn’t exist yet!?! This seems to be new program, with no graduates yet. That’s a huge crapshoot at any expense. Yo have no objective data as to whether or not it’s an effective, let alone good, program. Having already spent money on an MA, with these options on the table you need to think long and hard whether or not any of these choices make good financial sense- they all have their risks and it would be a shame to dig yourself into a deep (deeper?) financial hole. Sorry- may not be the news you’re looking for, but-seriously- these programs come with some big risks.

People posting on programs should actually understand what they are talking about before they post. Kean was only just accredited in 2016, so just 3 years before this old posting. Match rates are well above 62% and students match at top internship sites nationally.

 

[WisNeuro]

People posting on programs should actually understand what they are talking about before they post. Kean was only just accredited in 2016, so just 3 years before this old posting. Match rates are well above 62% and students match at top internship sites nationally.

What was incorrect about that post, those were the actual data at that time?

 

[Sanman]

People posting on programs should actually understand what they are talking about before they post. Kean was only just accredited in 2016, so just 3 years before this old posting. Match rates are well above 62% and students match at top internship sites nationally.

You dug up a 3.5 year old thread to complain about free advice on the internet? Ok

So, are you a graduate of Kean or do you work there?

 

[WisNeuro]

You dug up a 3.5 year old thread to complain about free advice on the internet? Ok

So, are you a graduate of Kean or do you work there?

My money is on work there.

 

[ClinicalABA]

People posting on programs should actually understand what they are talking about before they post.

I try my best to understand what I'm talking about, as I know there is a lot of inaccurate information out there on regarding graduate programs in psychology. Reviewing my previous post (from three years ago, mind you), I don't see where what I stated was not accurate. I got my information directly from the Kean website. If anything, I'm guilty of referring to 6 years of data as "over the past 10 years." That might be misleading.

Kean was only just accredited in 2016, so just 3 years before this old posting. Match rates are well above 62% and students match at top internship sites nationally.

At the time of my post (and currently- I just checked their website), Kean published outcome data going back to the class applying to internship during the 2012-2013 academic year. There is nothing in my post that does not reflect the data provided by Kean. If you read a little further in the the thread, a current (at that time) student responded to me regarding my post indicating that the most recent year (after the at-that-time most recent published year match rate of 100%) was also 100%. I replied indicating that it looked like trends were heading in the right direction since the program became accredited.

Looking at the current match info provided by Kean (https://www.kean.edu/media/student-admissions-outcomes-psychology) it looks like the "current student" who responded to me was actually incorrect, as Kean has not had another 100% match year since the one I mentioned in my original post, and in fact, had a 60% match in 2020-2021, with some other recent years hovering around 80%. Now, with relatively small denominators going into the calculation percentage is not the greatest statistic. However, I still maintain that Kean's recent match rates still aren't great, relative to other programs, and prospective students should still enquire about them. Doesn't mean it's not a good program, as with a small N cohort even just one outlier student can mess-up match percentage. Just means it's one- of many- potential factors to consider when choosing to attend or not attend this program.

If anything else I posted was erroneous, please correct me. Honestly- if you check out my other posts around these parts I think that you'll find that I try to be honest and fair, either sticking to facts or identifying my own opinions and biases. I appreciate your continued feedback.

 

[R. Matey]

My money is on work there.

If the account name is any indication...