Definition of Science Faculty

[Heisenberg 41]

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Some schools specifically ask for a "science professor from whom you've taken a class", but if they only ask for a letter from "science faculty", can I use a LOR from my PI (who is a science faculty member, but I have never taken a traditional lecture class from him)?

 

[Goro]

And your PI can assess your ability to handle coursework how?????

Some schools specifically ask for a "science professor from whom you've taken a class", but if they only ask for a letter from "science faculty", can I use a LOR from my PI (who is a science faculty member, but I have never taken a traditional lecture class from him)?

 

[Heisenberg 41]

And your PI can assess your ability to handle coursework how?????

Well that's why I was wondering if "Science Faculty" meant something different than "Science Professor that you took a class from".

 

[Goro]

Let's make it simple. Use a professor you took a class with.

Well that's why I was wondering if "Science Faculty" meant something different than "Science Professor that you took a class from".

 

[Long Way to Go]

And your PI can assess your ability to handle coursework how?????

This never particularly made sense to me. Your transcript says whether you can handle coursework or not, what is it about a faculty member in a teaching role that makes them so much better of a letter writer than a faculty member in a research/mentorship role.

 

[Goro]

Faculty can assess if you're good at working with a team, whether you're proactive in your education by coming to see the professor, how well you did relative tot he class, how rigorous the class is, what you personality is like, whether you have an honest interest in learning and Science (or wh4atever the subject is), whether you're helpful to others.

So, I apologize for being terse in my original statement, but there's a lot that can go into a LOR that's NOT shown by an "A" on a transcript.

This never particularly made sense to me. Your transcript says whether you can handle coursework or not, what is it about a faculty member in a teaching role that makes them so much better of a letter writer than a faculty member in a research/mentorship role.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Faculty can assess if you're good at working with a team, whether you're proactive in your education by coming to see the professor, how well you did relative tot he class, how rigorous the class is, what you personality is like, whether you have an honest interest in learning and Science (or wh4atever the subject is), whether you're helpful to others.

So, I apologize for being terse in my original statement, but there's a lot that can go into a LOR that's NOT shown by an "A" on a transcript.

Now, does the student have to procure an A/A- before asking for a Letter or Rec?

 

[Goro]

No.

Now, does the student have to procure an A/A- before asking for a Letter or Rec?

 

[Heisenberg 41]

Thanks for all of the feedback! Last question: If I were to send letters from my Ochem professor and my PI (faculty in a science discipline, did not take a lecture based class from him), would a school reject me for not fulfilling this specific LOR requirement?

• "At least two letters from faculty in science disciplines."

***OR this requirement from another school***

• "...two of which must be from science faculty members"

 

[utmn]

I know someone in a similar boat who asked admissions offices and was told different things by different schools (of course ️), so might be worth checking.

 

[deleted642188]

Now, does the student have to procure an A/A- before asking for a Letter or Rec?

From personal experience, it is possible my Gen Bio 2 professor would only agree to write a strong reference for undergraduates who were TAs. It really depends on your professor but I feel that this is more likely in my case because I study at a big university

 

[ERK123]

Faculty can assess if you're good at working with a team, whether you're proactive in your education by coming to see the professor, how well you did relative tot he class, how rigorous the class is, what you personality is like, whether you have an honest interest in learning and Science (or wh4atever the subject is), whether you're helpful to others.

So, I apologize for being terse in my original statement, but there's a lot that can go into a LOR that's NOT shown by an "A" on a transcript.

I would think that a PI could assess quite a few if not all of those parameters (except maybe how difficult the class is). I would think it depends on the lab. The lab I worked in during undergrad required us to write term papers, attend monthly guest lectures/discussions, and participate in lab meetings with our fellow students. We also had the option of writing a mock proposal for the PI or lab director to review, which involved numerous meetings with lab personnel to learn about this process and the scientific method. I know all lab experiences are not created equal, but then again neither are all courses. I was able to get a letter from my PI because I received academic credit for at least one semester of my time so this counted as a science faculty letter. However, if I had not received credit I am not sure if my experience would have been much different.

 

[Salt Salt]

Faculty can assess if you're good at working with a team, whether you're proactive in your education by coming to see the professor, how well you did relative tot he class, how rigorous the class is, what you personality is like, whether you have an honest interest in learning and Science (or wh4atever the subject is), whether you're helpful to others.

But half those things are better assessed by a PI and the other half can still be inferred from a transcript, so this doesn't answer the question, it only reinforces it.

As someone who went to undergrad at a large public university where the smallest science classes I took had 200+ students in them, I'm not a fan of the "2 letters must come from science faculty who've taught you" rule. Some of us are at a tremendous disadvantage because of it; pre-med advisors at my undergrad institution explicitly admitted to me that pre-med students applying from there have traditionally weak letters. This affected my application: My two PI letters were excellent, but my two science faculty were by far my weakest letters.

 

[Salt Salt]

OP, my advice is to ask each school individually. That's what I did, and you'd be surprised by the variation in school's answers.

 

[Goro]

it is the LOR seeker's responsibility to find a faculty member to write good LOR. Having large classes is not an excuse. Pre-meds take plenty of science classes, and LOR writers don't need to be the people who taught Bio 1 or Orgo I.

So, show some initiative, people!

But half those things are better assessed by a PI and the other half can still be inferred from a transcript, so this doesn't answer the question, it only reinforces it.

As someone who went to undergrad at a large public university where the smallest science classes I took had 200+ students in them, I'm not a fan of the "2 letters must come from science faculty who've taught you" rule. Some of us are at a tremendous disadvantage because of it; pre-med advisors at my undergrad institution explicitly admitted to me that pre-med students applying from there have traditionally weak letters. This affected my application: My two PI letters were excellent, but my two science faculty were by far my weakest letters.

 

[Salt Salt]

it is the LOR seeker's responsibility to find a faculty member to write good LOR. Having large classes is not an excuse. Pre-meds take plenty of science classes, and LOR writers don't need to be the people who taught Bio 1 or Orgo I.

So, show some initiative, people!

I don't think you understand the level of effort I put into securing a good science faculty letter . I tried my hardest in nearly every class, but the best I could get was a mere surface connection. In my Genetics class, for example, I went to Dr. X's office hours *every* Tuesday and Thursday. Every. Single. Week...along with 15 other students. I was quite friendly and not at all shy during office hours, demonstrated the ability to ask good questions, etc., and ended up doing very well in the class. Still, there is very little human-to-human connection in office hours for large classes, and when I asked for a rec letter, he said, "Sure. The letter will be supportive but brief." (Didn't end up using it, of course; I know how to read the signs.) I won't go into detail here, but I exercised a stunning amount of resourcefulness and craftiness in eventually getting the letters that I did. But that merely ensured that the letters weren't extremely weak, like they would have been. It didn't make them strong.

I hope this doesn't come across as aggressive, @Goro! It's just that it upsets me to think that the level of effort and thoughtfulness I put into securing the letters that I got is dismissed as lack of "initiative."

 

[Heisenberg 41]

@Salt Salt I know exactly what you mean! Going to a school with 30,000+ undergrads makes for a hard time building personal relationships with science professors... At the end of the day, I just want to send in the best possible LORs.

 

[autodestruction]

I don't think you understand the level of effort I put into securing a good science faculty letter . I tried my hardest in nearly every class, but the best I could get was a mere surface connection. In my Genetics class, for example, I went to Dr. X's office hours *every* Tuesday and Thursday. Every. Single. Week...along with 15 other students. I was quite friendly and not at all shy during office hours, demonstrated the ability to ask good questions, etc., and ended up doing very well in the class. Still, there is very little human-to-human connection in office hours for large classes, and when I asked for a rec letter, he said, "Sure. The letter will be supportive but brief." (Didn't end up using it, of course; I know how to read the signs.) I won't go into detail here, but I exercised a stunning amount of resourcefulness and craftiness in eventually getting the letters that I did. But that merely ensured that the letters weren't extremely weak, like they would have been. It didn't make them strong.

I hope this doesn't come across as aggressive, @Goro! It's just that it upsets me to think that the level of effort and thoughtfulness I put into securing the letters that I got is dismissed as lack of "initiative."

Salt Salt, could you please share how you ended up getting letters from other professors? I'm in the same situation as you were- talked with a professor a lot, thought she would be able to write me a decent letter, and it turns out it would be "positive, but maybe not fantastic". So now I have to find someone else..

Really though, you can visit all of a professor's office hours as you are taking a class, stop by every once in a while to say hi/share updates, show genuine interest in the material, and apparently still get a generic letter. 🙁