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Democrats and Socialized Medicine.

Discussion in 'Pharmacy' started by pharmacistUH, May 11, 2007.

  1. pharmacistUH

    pharmacistUH Eat 'Em Up Coogs!

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    I just wanted to hear the opinions of pharmacists who are already practicing. What do you think will happen if the Democrats get elected into office and pass/try to pass legislation that will create socialized healthcare. Will healthcare professionals get their pay cut (probably)? Will it happen any time soon?
     
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  3. pharmacistUH

    pharmacistUH Eat 'Em Up Coogs!

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    wow...talk about having a personal agenda against a legitimate concern for the profession that I am entering. I never said I was a republican or a democrat, so your assumptions just show your ignorance. If you are going to lower yourself to flame someone on a message board with an opinion different than yours, then why bother replying? Now, if someone wants to reply ON-TOPIC, I would be more than happy to read what some people have to say about this.
     
  4. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    Well....I'm a practicing pharmacist & I have to say your post is highly politically charged....

    But - in spite of all that, I think you might be trying to ask a legitimate question.

    First, I know of no "socialized" healthcare proposal (if you are using that as an economic/social term). There are two major ones out there - universal or single payor. They are different - you might try to educate yourself on the differences - this forum is not the place since it would take too long.

    There are many other permutations of those two major choices as well, but none that will probably fly.

    If you are trying to make this topic into a "party" battle - Medicare Part D has already put plenty of mud on the face of the Republican party - in fact - it is sinking in that mud. There are states which monthly lose pharmacies directly due to this awful Medicare Part D plan which was passed during the current Republican administration without due & deliberate thought.

    That doesn't even begin to touch on the PSE law which is also a result of the "fear" factor within the Patriot Act - again thanks to the recent adminstration.

    I'm not sure either party has the solution, but I am very sure the sooner this administration is gone the better healthcare will be - just my opinion!
     
  5. ZpackSux

    ZpackSux Retired
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    Liberals Sux!
     
  6. pharmacistUH

    pharmacistUH Eat 'Em Up Coogs!

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    Thank you for your informative post and by giving me a place to start my own research. I apologize if my post sounded too politically charged, but I was listening to news radio when Hillary Clinton said something about socialized healthcare and that the people won't have to pay for anything. I have friends who live in other countries that have socialized medicine and Doctors and Pharmacists make less than half the annual salary that they do here. Money is not the reason that I am entering Pharmacy (I love my patients), but it does not hurt, and I want to be informed of any drastic changes to my industry. I did not post this topic trying to start a political debate, because I hate politics with a passion. Thanks for the legitimate answer to my legitimate question.
     
  7. Caverject

    Caverject Try Some Schnitzel!

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  8. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    I thought Z-Packs sux:confused:
     
  9. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    I'd caution you to evaluate what is done in other countries & use that as a basis for evaluating the proposals on the table now or in the future when discussing healthcare in this country. The access of healthcare, need for the professionals, expectations of the population are all different.

    One thing we know for sure - the dynamics of cost/reimbursement/accessibility, etc...will have to change to have our system continue. We can't continue the way it is now.


    But, its important to evaluate each proposal on all the factors which are involved - not just our reimbursement (salary). Why??? Because at some point in time you or someone you know (your parent, SO, child...) will need to utilize the healthcare system. Currently, if your baby is born pre-term, in the US it has a pretty good chance of survival because we have such a sophisticated healthcare system. Some countries have a cut-off at which they won't do certain procedures - say before 30 weeks or after 90....but if its your mom or your baby - thats tough to take.

    Now....ethics come into play. Philosophically, should we be doing all we can to sustain life in a pt who has multiple disease states and is 90 years old....or who was born at 28 weeks and has a high risk of neonatal morbidities with resultant lifetime residual effects or performing a liver transplant in a pt who's liver failed from ETOH, but has been sober for 30 years? I don't pretend to have the answer to this - nor is there one "right" answer. Everyone has an opinion - thats the beauty of our system, but its also the problem with our system.

    We've also had the benefit of living with the effects of dramatic improvements in healthcare for more than 50 years. Other countries haven't necessarily had these improvements, so don't have to "take them back" from folks....rather they limit who gets them in the first place.

    We can look to Canada who has a single payor system. To get an MRI for a non-emergent condition can take a long time (at least that is what my Canadian friends tell me - Reqiem can elaborate more). But, diagnostic radiology centers along the US/Canadian border are booming because those who have money will cross the border to get their MRI done here.

    So...you have a reimbursement system which is inextricably tied with access - we have that now, but the reimbursement system is the insurance industry. If you have the means to buy good health insurance, you can obtain any healthcare you want.

    But....our salaries are not necessarily tied to reimbursement - at least not like they were decades ago when we were a more fee for service industry. We currently are paid based on the how much our positions are "needed". There are some who say some of this "need" can be done away with or replaced. They might be justified to a certain extent. Zpak can attest to pharmacists who either can't or won't do what they are trained to do to become more effecient or econmically sound.

    This is an entirely different argument than those factors which influence physicians who are indeed paid on fee for service - kind of. They are paid based on a ICD-9 code - a diagnosis code. Medicare sets that & is reducing it more & more, so they are impacted tremendously. Dentistry is not affected by Medicare at all, so does not have these issues, yet is part of health care & some say not closely tied enough to medical care (look into recent evidence linking heart disease with peridontal disease).

    Like I said - a very, very complex issue. Hiliary Clinton is a tremendously smart woman (so is Barak Obama & some of the Republican candidates....Bush - not so much...) & health care is something she's very well-versed in, I'd have a hard time believing she might have said people wouldn't have to pay anything, because someone always pays something......it may be in a premium, a copay or taxes. She's never hidden that fact - even when she first talked about it 12 years ago.

    I don't have any answers & I really don't think the politicians have them either. But, we will need to change & change will take time to refine. Sometimes the change will hurt one part of the system - right now physicians are suffering & it affect access (ex - in my part of the country you can't get a pediatrician unless you have a referral from an OB without waiting for months). Some pharmacies are suffering as well - Montana is having an awful time with Part D.

    So...keep an open mind. Read all you can & try not to be swayed by which political party is backing one or the other. Look at each proposal based on its merits - not just to you personally as a provider, but to you as a consumer or from your parent's perspective, your child's perspective, your neighbor who was laid off......

    Just my thoughts.....sorry, Caverject - long rant.....(you shouldn't be on here reading this anyway!!!:smuggrin: ).
     
  10. ethyl

    ethyl Go suck on a Zoloft.
    Pharmacist

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    ahh universal health care. A term thrown around during election campaigns to bring up warm fuzzy carebear feelings of hope for voters.... That hope would be quickly diminished once the slow inefficient arm of government bureaucracy took an even greater piece of our overall health care (so called) system. :p
     
  11. Caverject

    Caverject Try Some Schnitzel!

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    that just goes without saying...
     
  12. pharmacistUH

    pharmacistUH Eat 'Em Up Coogs!

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    wow, thanks for breaking that down for me. The only reason that I made this topic was to find out more about this from professionals who know more about it than I do. I have yet to learn anything about the healthcare industry above what a normal person would know, so you might have lost me a bit. The main thing I understand from your post is that you are not worried and that Pharmacists will still have a job 20-30 years in the future. I apologize to anyone that I might have inadvertantly offended, or my own inability to write a topic/first post that was clear enough to show that I was not starting a political debate. Thank you for your answers, all of you.
     
  13. tussionex

    tussionex Pharmacist

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    no, politics sux!:D
     
  14. ZpackSux

    ZpackSux Retired
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    You know what really sux? I was in New Jersey and NY for 4 days... the road system really sux beyond comprehension. It's certainly a good way to keep some people out of the area!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :thumbdown:
     
  15. cycloketocaine

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    Texas????!?!?!???????????????
     
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  17. Caverject

    Caverject Try Some Schnitzel!

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    :laugh: yeah, just ask the governor of New Jersey! :laugh:
     
  18. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    You have been out of CA waaaaay too long!

    Before you drive your RV here - get to your dentist & make sure your crowns are cemented down tight. The roads here are horrible (except I-80 - truckers demand the best). An RV will make your fillings shake right out of your head (oh - make sure baby Sux doesn't get tossed about:scared: ).

    No money:( ........ so they say:rolleyes:

    Perhaps you'll see - are you flying into LAX or JW on Mon? The 405 can be brutal too - but not as bad as up here. They don't get the freeze/thaw thing that gets those awful potholes that give you whiplash & ruin your tires.

    Rant!!!:smuggrin:
     
  19. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    No worries - I don't think you offended anyone. Its just not a particular "party" debate, but some like to make it so. - and you can bet your last dollar it will become a "party" issue within the next 18 months!

    Its a difficult & complex social debate with valid points of all sides....and there are many, many sides.

    If your concern is will we have a job in 30 years - yeah - you will. Me - not so much (God - I HOPE NOT!!!!!).

    You'll still be needed because our society is looking to find more & better ways to make healthcare safer. We are a profession in which that is a big priority.

    But...there are some who won't be happy 20-30 years from now. Some aren't happy now - change is inevitable & actually good, but some folks resist change & want things the way they were "before".

    I'd bet Zpak can start a whole thread on complacency within our profession - I know I could from a clinical standpoint, but he knows more about the business end of it. Once out of school, without specific direction, many pharmacists have a hard time becoming advocates for change - whether its an easy one - brand to generic or a hard one - therapeutic interchange.

    Again - my advice just for the profession of pharmacy is - keep an open mind to all kinds of change. Listen & think about it before you decide to support or deny.

    I can't nor won't give any advice on politics - everyone has their own opinion which is as valid as the next persons', so I have no basis on which to give any advice.

    I'd agree with Tussionex - politics sux.
     
  20. ZpackSux

    ZpackSux Retired
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    I'm not talking about the road itself. It's the city planning issue. In CA, if I miss a turn or an exit, I can take the next one and turn around. That's just not the case in NJ. The hotel I was staying at was near the exit 3. Well, the north bound hwy did not have an exit 3...but 2A and 2B. The Mapquest direction was unfollowable and we went in circles for about 20 minutes. But by accident, we found the hotel. Of course the South bound had the exit 3 but did not have a interstate onramp..which meant we had to drive around the neighborhood to get on the interstate from exit 4.

    And exit 10 to exit 11 wasn't 1 mile apart...but about 6 miles...what the heck?

    And what's with the people's addiction to their automobile horn...

    But Pizza is really good! :thumbup:
     
  21. ZpackSux

    ZpackSux Retired
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  22. ZpackSux

    ZpackSux Retired
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    First...SDN gives me too much credit.

    But having visited a dozen hospitals in the past 2 months, I can tell you well operated hospital pharmacy is an exception not the rule.

    It stems from complacent leadership..directors just counting the days to retirement and not wanting to make progressive positive changes for the better because either they have not kept up with the technology nor the advances in pharmaceutical care.

    Perhaps we're not preparing pharmacists to become effective leaders. Physicians are well trained in my opinion..from general practice to highly specialized.

    But pharmacy leadership isn't a strong part of our education system. An analogy is... university education really doesn't teach anyone how to make money because those who truly know how to make money aren't the ones at the university level teaching....rather stench ole academic types.
     
  23. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    Oh - too right - the server is not doing its job updating.

    Anyway - I'm responding to Zpak - yeah - road signs directions are a regional thing - some good, some bad. Now you know your way, you'll find it next time.

    I should tell the story of the last time I visited my daughter in NC by myself (Dr sdn was busy)......got lost finding the d*mn place - in the dark.

    Now - I'm not one to cry & really didn't .... but, I was talking to Dr sdn - it was 8PM here & 11 PM where I was & I didn't know where I was (ended up I was closer to Duke than where I wanted to be....) He was ready to call someone to find me, but didn't know where to send them ....

    What a night!!!! Oh well - I survived & still have a good story & found MS III (then MS II) & all is well that ends well....

    But - hold onto baby Sux - the pot holes this year are awful!!!
     
  24. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    responding to the clinical post of Zpak.....

    :thumbup:
     
  25. ZpackSux

    ZpackSux Retired
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    Hertz Rental cars come with a GPS :thumbup:

    But my collegue rented from the Dollar Rental :thumbdown:

    Will Ms MSIII take some time off this summer or is she going straight into her intern rotations?
     
  26. sdn1977

    sdn1977 Senior Member

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    Aaaaah this d*mn server.....I don't really know who I'm talking to....

    If you're Zpak, I'll tell you about MSIII = some funny stories....

    She's 3 weks into her first rotations - she started with Neurology -

    2 weeks into General Neurology - MS, Alzheimers, encephalitits, mengitis - all adult - no peds. Then she switched onto stroke service - a very busy service.

    So...her resident says they have to do an LP - she says great! They gown, glove....its a difficult LP....she watches first, resident has a couple of tries - no luck...tell the pt to reposition. Now the pt says is there a problem? MSIII says no problem, you're doing great, but says "I'm going to go right over there & sit down just a minute..".

    Now the resident looks up at her & she has lost all color in her face - apparently just white. He must have been a really nice guy - he tells the pt to relax a bit, takes off his gown & gloves & goes to get the nurse to get OJ. She brings it to the pt & he has to tell her its not for the pt its for the medical student. What a nice guy!!!!

    I told her if he were a surgeon he'd let her lay where she dropped!

    Anyway, she gowns & gloves back up & gets right back in. He says are you sure - she says yeah & off she goes.....what a gal!

    She got her Step I score = 99th percentile - she'll be ok.

    Next is psychiatry....she'll have new stories! I think we'll see her for a week in the summer....we'll see.....
     
  27. ZpackSux

    ZpackSux Retired
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    coolness.... she'll be great!

    I couldn't do LP..nor want to... :eek:
     

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