Dental Anesthesiology
Started by PartyROC
I think the dental anesthesiologist gig is a good one. Do not go to med school because people say you are not a "real doctor". Do what is right for YOU. The extra time, money, and greulling training is not worth it IMO.
Dude you have it made. Stick with the dental anesthesia gig and enjoy a great lifestyle. The future of medicine is too unpredictable and you'd end up with 500K+ in debt which would be crippling. I'd put up with dentist jokes all day long if I was pulling in the numbers you mentioned and leaving work everyday at 2pm. In the end you have to do what makes you happy, but remember the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
I'm actually in the same boat as you as far as training...very strange that you posted this...lol. While I experience the whole dental jokes thing (not everyday) i think there are 3 things to consider
1. Youre in a residency surrounded by physicians. Youre doing almost the the same thing as them so of course youre going to be compared to them daily...and of course that's gonna make you feel inadequate in training at times. When we get out tho we'll be the top dogs in dentistry. 1st place in junior varsity isnt that bad. 😀
2. Were poor now. I think a DDS,MS will be a lot easier to swallow when youre watching cartoon network in your boxers at home at 3pm because youre already done with work. The money is good, and honestly, with money comes respect (and i guess you could wear pants and watch like cnn...to each his own)
3. Gratification. Sure dentistry isnt life and death, but if your program is like mine youll be doing a lot of pediatrics and special needs...and when youre helping 5-6 kids a day get a healthy smile, or reverse a cleft lip...like youre not gonna care that the Dr in front of your name is not the "cool" one.
Idk...im no expert...but were in a good spot...obamacare, crnas at hospitals...MDAs have problems they cope with too
Edit - oh and stop blasting our salary/hours or every general dentist in the US is gonna be going DA
1. Youre in a residency surrounded by physicians. Youre doing almost the the same thing as them so of course youre going to be compared to them daily...and of course that's gonna make you feel inadequate in training at times. When we get out tho we'll be the top dogs in dentistry. 1st place in junior varsity isnt that bad. 😀
2. Were poor now. I think a DDS,MS will be a lot easier to swallow when youre watching cartoon network in your boxers at home at 3pm because youre already done with work. The money is good, and honestly, with money comes respect (and i guess you could wear pants and watch like cnn...to each his own)
3. Gratification. Sure dentistry isnt life and death, but if your program is like mine youll be doing a lot of pediatrics and special needs...and when youre helping 5-6 kids a day get a healthy smile, or reverse a cleft lip...like youre not gonna care that the Dr in front of your name is not the "cool" one.
Idk...im no expert...but were in a good spot...obamacare, crnas at hospitals...MDAs have problems they cope with too
Edit - oh and stop blasting our salary/hours or every general dentist in the US is gonna be going DA
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You will now get in trouble for using the term "MDA"
...wait for ittttttt................ andd....!
My apologies...didnt know the term was frowned upon...
Yes, yes it would. Crazy with a capital C.
Unless you're M I S E R A B L E ... and have a reason besides greener grass fantasies that medicine would make you happier. Even then, think twice.
$250K is a lot of debt to carry into 4 years of med school and 4 years of frugal resident living. Not to mention the opportunity cost of being 4 years older. Then you'd also be buying into the financial uncertainty that is medicine. Dentistry, which is not now and probably never will be considered a fundamental human entitlement, has the very enviable quality of "no cash, no insurance, no pay = no duty to provide free care" ... which is not to say dentists never work for free or discount their fees. But there's a world of difference between doing charity work voluntarily, and doing it because the law says you have to.
Just put up with the academic ass clowns and dentist abuse for now, it will end.
D
deleted307836
Just curious -- what changes? OMFS's no longer giving their own?
Thanks for the responses. Seems like the verdict is to stay the course. The DDS thing will plague me for a while, but i guess ill just cope and adapt.
And ya, the predicted changes are making DA a recognized ADA specialty, and they recently got the ASA backing as both are anti-omfs being provider/operator.
Thanks guys 🙂
And ya, the predicted changes are making DA a recognized ADA specialty, and they recently got the ASA backing as both are anti-omfs being provider/operator.
Thanks guys 🙂
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Who will be laughing on your way to the bank 🙂
Predicted......or hopeful for you guys? This issue was beaten to death by myself and others a few months ago. Doubt it will be as easy to remove the provider-operator system as many believe. OMFS guys are stubborn *******s, myself included.
Being a MD Anesthesiologist, where is that gig that pays 500k for 6am-2pm. I say sign me up. Or do you have to be a dentist to get that gig? Just curious.
As a practicing DA for 8 years, I would strongly consider medical school if you have the will to be a "student" again. There is quite a bit of false information out there regarding a DA's average salary, level of skill and even demand/need depending on where one chooses to practice.
First off, do not be misled into believing a DA is "leading the dental profession" in income because they do not. Jobs offering exceedingly high incomes are found in less than desirable places to live since that is where a dental surgery center can survive due to the high volume of low income children. In that instance, a new grad can find work in the 300K range right out of residency if they are willing to put in 12 hour days seeing kids in an assembly line fashion. However, if a new grad intends on settling in a desirable densely populated and relatively urban area, they will discover their "need" does not exist. Income expectations should be cut to roughly 25% of above mentioned numbers and the urge to pick up a hand piece will return out of necessity ... if you do not believe me ... well ... all I can say is I have personal experience in both atmospheres ... there is a reason some DAs only provide anesthesia and others practice as an operator/anesthetist and the REASON is need/demand specific to their region ... quality of life, family location etc have to factor into your decision to seek the $ or settle into a different kind of practice model as a DA ...
As far as specialty status, DAs need this to assure future rights to practice anesthesia, sustainability of residency programs and credibility in areas of the country where it is currently low ... it is a double edged sword in the fact that new graduates will tend to decrease the need if they gravitate toward areas with sufficient current DA coverage. It is difficult for DAs to practice in a number of states due to regulation ... of course that is another thread entirely about the politics between DAs and OS
The last factor that should make any dentist think twice about a career as a DA is the impending health care changes that will flood the office based market with MDs and in states that allow independent practice CRNAs ... this will bring the cost of office based anesthesia down tremendously ... I have 3 separate groups in my state that are all competing for limited offices ... it is going to come down to patient cost and provider availability and the end result is likely a loss of income I have grown accustomed to ... adding more DA graduates is only going to further dilute available work ... THIS is the sole reason you see many DAs set up shop as a GP with the niche ability to provide sedation/anesthesia ... to shield themselves from the coming onslaught of providers competing for the office based market ... In one sense DAs had better hope the specialty passes so future DAs/OS have the ability to provide sedation/anesthesia and in one respect growing our field will hinder future DA practice unless new grads move to areas of need and not set up shop in the "golden state"
Also remember nothing in life worthwhile comes easy ... so when comparing "new grad salary" remember a DA has a low glass ceiling since they can only see one patient at a time and bill per hour ... an established dentist (GP or otherwise) typically makes far more $ than a DA assuming you work at building a practice ... do not short yourself by comparing initial income while ignoring the equity and value of dental practice growth ...
First off, do not be misled into believing a DA is "leading the dental profession" in income because they do not. Jobs offering exceedingly high incomes are found in less than desirable places to live since that is where a dental surgery center can survive due to the high volume of low income children. In that instance, a new grad can find work in the 300K range right out of residency if they are willing to put in 12 hour days seeing kids in an assembly line fashion. However, if a new grad intends on settling in a desirable densely populated and relatively urban area, they will discover their "need" does not exist. Income expectations should be cut to roughly 25% of above mentioned numbers and the urge to pick up a hand piece will return out of necessity ... if you do not believe me ... well ... all I can say is I have personal experience in both atmospheres ... there is a reason some DAs only provide anesthesia and others practice as an operator/anesthetist and the REASON is need/demand specific to their region ... quality of life, family location etc have to factor into your decision to seek the $ or settle into a different kind of practice model as a DA ...
As far as specialty status, DAs need this to assure future rights to practice anesthesia, sustainability of residency programs and credibility in areas of the country where it is currently low ... it is a double edged sword in the fact that new graduates will tend to decrease the need if they gravitate toward areas with sufficient current DA coverage. It is difficult for DAs to practice in a number of states due to regulation ... of course that is another thread entirely about the politics between DAs and OS
The last factor that should make any dentist think twice about a career as a DA is the impending health care changes that will flood the office based market with MDs and in states that allow independent practice CRNAs ... this will bring the cost of office based anesthesia down tremendously ... I have 3 separate groups in my state that are all competing for limited offices ... it is going to come down to patient cost and provider availability and the end result is likely a loss of income I have grown accustomed to ... adding more DA graduates is only going to further dilute available work ... THIS is the sole reason you see many DAs set up shop as a GP with the niche ability to provide sedation/anesthesia ... to shield themselves from the coming onslaught of providers competing for the office based market ... In one sense DAs had better hope the specialty passes so future DAs/OS have the ability to provide sedation/anesthesia and in one respect growing our field will hinder future DA practice unless new grads move to areas of need and not set up shop in the "golden state"
Also remember nothing in life worthwhile comes easy ... so when comparing "new grad salary" remember a DA has a low glass ceiling since they can only see one patient at a time and bill per hour ... an established dentist (GP or otherwise) typically makes far more $ than a DA assuming you work at building a practice ... do not short yourself by comparing initial income while ignoring the equity and value of dental practice growth ...
C'mon now, I don't need an economics degree to conclude that 300-500k figure for a DA is outlandish especially right out of training. It's difficult enough as it is for an MD to attain this salary out of gas residency and even the boonie offers close to this are drying up.
But to give some med student insight to your original question, don't fall prey to "grass is greener" syndrome. There are days when I wish I had just stayed in my cush pharma job before med school. But then I slap myself and realize how easy we can rationalize illogical thoughts.
But to give some med student insight to your original question, don't fall prey to "grass is greener" syndrome. There are days when I wish I had just stayed in my cush pharma job before med school. But then I slap myself and realize how easy we can rationalize illogical thoughts.
And I believe that DA is being voted on this month to even be considered a recognized specialty in the dental field. There's only 10-12 programs in the nation pumping out 2-4 residents a year so there is an issue with restricting anesthesia performed by OMS when there's less than 500 DA's that could perform anesthesia. Whether you believe that the operator/provider model is ideal or not (completely different argument), limiting OMS to use DA's isn't the answer.
The ASA appears to be backing OMS more as well compared to DA's, as the VP, Dr. Fitch, of the ASA just spoke at our last AAOMS meeting last month. Why would the ASA back a dental anesthesia field fully when many of its members have such a problem with the overuse of CRNAs in the field? More hands in the cookie jar.
Like the poster above, just saying be careful about misleading information about a relatively new facet of dentistry that hasn't concreted itself yet. That being said, there's absolutely no way I would start over and go to medical school even if I was in a dental anesthesiology program. There's always going to be pediatric offices that need your sedation/airway experience that will happily pay for it....just maybe not 500k or the ridiculous figures above.
The ASA appears to be backing OMS more as well compared to DA's, as the VP, Dr. Fitch, of the ASA just spoke at our last AAOMS meeting last month. Why would the ASA back a dental anesthesia field fully when many of its members have such a problem with the overuse of CRNAs in the field? More hands in the cookie jar.
Like the poster above, just saying be careful about misleading information about a relatively new facet of dentistry that hasn't concreted itself yet. That being said, there's absolutely no way I would start over and go to medical school even if I was in a dental anesthesiology program. There's always going to be pediatric offices that need your sedation/airway experience that will happily pay for it....just maybe not 500k or the ridiculous figures above.
Agreed. I've seen in the northeast MD Anesthesia jobs starting at 275k with 5-6 overnight calls/month. So those figures you quote of a DA making 300-500k sound very unrealistic.
