Dismiss Notice
SDN members see fewer ads and full resolution images. Join our non-profit community!

dental salary

Discussion in 'Dental' started by wishfulthinker, May 8, 2007.

  1. wishfulthinker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi. So I guess this is NOT a new topic but I need some personal guidance or reassurance here. Now I definately did not get into dentistry for the money, I know it is a priviledge to help people with thier problems and I wouldnt want to exploit them ever. But my classmates are obsessed with specialty because they all say general dentists dont make any money. I realistically want to have a decent lifestyle where I dont have to worry about bills, can afford to go on a trip maybe once a year, and work decent hours so I actually get to see my children. With that in mind I tried to google dental salary, but it doesnt specify how many hours they work but rather 125k-175k is around 25%-75%. I dont know how many hours they average for this, nor if it is before or after taxes. I just want to know the bottom line, thanks.
     
  2. Thread continues after this sponsor message. SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. Dutchboy

    Dutchboy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2005
    Messages:
    534
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    The bottom line is that you will be able to do all those things you mentioned and more as a general dentist.
     
  4. toothfairy85

    toothfairy85 Guest

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
    My general dentist makes right $450,000 a year. He is an excellent businessman... works MTWR 8-5... and he just finished building a house on the lake.
     
  5. dentalman

    dentalman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    1
    How I love predents! Sheesh! Remember that this is in the top percentile of dentists. I know real estate brokers who make $450,000 a year, but that doesn't tell you about the median. The averages are more realistic, but you may not make that the first few years. But you will be able to do everything you spoke of.
     
  6. speedy3816

    speedy3816 reality pwns

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    Yea, that's what I say... best to look at medians and means, and not get too carried away by the high end salaries, ect. At the same time don't get discouraged if you hear of dentists that start out making only 70-80k/year at the beginning... there are many reasons (variables) why someone might start right out of school making 140k or 70k.
     
  7. 12YearOldKid

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Dentist
    Actually I want to know how all of these pre-dents are privvy to personal financial information. I shadowed a lot of dentists and not a single one ever carried around his 1040 with him to show to random passers-by. I know I don't plan on doing that myself.

    Plus, I think most predents don't understand the difference between gross production and net. I'm not saying that is the case with the poster on this thread... but in general...
     
  8. speedy3816

    speedy3816 reality pwns

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    yup... and things like overhead, personal taxes, ect

    emotion clouds judgement.

    reality is not always the peachy picture a lot of pre-d's seem to paint about dentistry... hence why i stopped comin around the pre-d forums.
     
  9. OceanBlue

    OceanBlue HA! I knew it.

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Dental Student
    Think of it this way....there are a few general dentists who make 450K a year...not many, but they do exist. You can make the same analogy for basketball players....there are a few basketball players who can play like Micheal Jordan. When you want to play basketball (predents), you look up to people like Michael Jordan. There is nothing wrong with predents looking up to dentists who make 450k a year. However, they have to realize that there are not many GPs who make that much.
    Another way of saying it is...there's nothing wrong for predents to dream big because that's the motivation that will help them to work hard to get in dental school...etc.
     
  10. makushin

    makushin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Dental Student
  11. makushin

    makushin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Dental Student
    The reason some of us know is because we ASK! Whenever I meet someone who is somehow associated with a dentist, I almost always ask. You'd be amazed what will slip out of some peoples mouths.

    I know a general with a 4-5 million$ (gross) practice. He has 3 associates. Call BS if you want, but I know what 2 of his assoicates net, and it's very easy to figure the rest out. Unusual, yes. But they do exist.

    The smallest number I have heard locally for a private practice is 150k net. Most are quite a bit more.

    I'm not going into this expecting to be rich, but let's face it; the money is out there. The question is, "Are you man enough to take it?" :p
     
  12. lnn2

    lnn2 Oral Fixation

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    861
    Likes Received:
    1
    The starting salary at $125K is accurate. As a new grad (GP) and as an associate, 9-5job, you should expect at least about $500/day with benefits. Anything less than that, well, keep on looking!

    How much more money can you make is entirely up to you. Believe or not, being a specialist vs GP doesn't have anything to do with how much money you can make.

    True!

    Also another question is, "What a dentist will do/compromise to make money?!"
     
  13. speedy3816

    speedy3816 reality pwns

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    Um... yea, but some people consider asking about finances quite rude. So don't be offended if a dentist (or other) takes offense to the fact that you asked.
     
  14. shamrock2006

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Dental Student
    i would think starting...is roughly around 100k...maybe some more..maybe some less. I only say this b/c I had a meeting w/ my dentist and he said tha the couldnt imagine starting a fresh grad at more than that simply b/c they are a liability. they have zero experience w/ real world dentistry and have to earn that big salary..that they are not just owed it. But then again...many factors come into play...I would think where you are practicing and standard of living in that area...100K in the middle of Montana would go much further than say in NYC.
     
  15. aphistis

    Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    8,392
    Likes Received:
    28
    Status:
    Attending Physician, Dentist
    Hallelujah. Preach on, brother shamrock, preach on.
     
  16. Thread continues after this sponsor message. SDN Members do not see this ad.

  17. wishfulthinker

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you to all of you who were so helpful, usually I see people fed to the wolves if they mention money. I am not a predent though, I'm actually a first year dental student but like I said, my classmates and upperclassmen have made it seem like gp is the most overworked and underpaid and i just want to get to the truth. The 125k-175K was the average range for the nation, it didnt specify the hours you work or the location or the years out of school. I just wish the ADA would release these documents so my broke dental student self wouldnt have to shell out the big bucks. well, back to studying my eyeballs out so I wont have to live in a box or more grossly, a box discarded after having a hole cut into it, ew!
     
  18. makushin

    makushin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Dental Student
    I've never asked a dentist directly, it's always friends and family. I offer something like "how does his/her practice do?" and they start throwing numbers out.
     
  19. Lesley

    Lesley Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    16
    Status:
    Attending Physician

    I wouldn't listen to friends, family's or dental employees "guess", and that is usually all it is, regarding an individual dentist's income. Often their perception of a professional's income is overinflated while the effort and costs to obtain a doctorate and run a business are severely underinflated. The offers discussed in this thread around $100,000 +/- to start sound about right. I recently discussed the cost of of U of Minn for an out-of-state student with my assistant. Her remark was, "Only rich kids can be dentists. It takes luck." I told her no, it's not rich kids and rarely is "luck" involved, in many, maybe most, cases, mine included, it's kids going into a lot of debt to follow a dream and a profession. No luck involved, just a lot of hard work, perseverence and the guts to borrow a lot of money. If you get far along enough to get accepted to dental school, banks are more than willing to lend to fund dental education. However, the perception of the average person and average patient is it's rich kids who are going into dentistry, even dental staff. Unfortunately, that perception may be here to stay. Good Luck.
     
  20. speedy3816

    speedy3816 reality pwns

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    Good point... this has happened to me as well.
     
  21. dentalman

    dentalman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    1
    "How a practice does" can easily make a confusion between gross revenue and net income, which is a very important difference!
     
  22. makushin

    makushin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    613
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Dental Student
    C'mon people, you think I can't tell the difference between gross and net? You wanted to know how some of us get numbers, I told. If you don't want to believe it thats fine. I know my sources, I know which ones are legit. There are plenty of GP's making the big money you hear about, unless it's unique to the market I live in. Sure there are crappy pracitices, this is a capitalist society, there are gonna be losers in any field. But there are far fewer 'losers' in dentistry than most other fields.

    I also think it's a little ridiculous to question the income of older, experienced dentists, based on what your friends are being offered out of school. Yes, you probably won't be rich, but theres nothing wrong with lofty goals.
     
  23. parkerbros99999

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2006
    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Attending Physician

    yeah, and we once actually believed in the tooth fairy slipping a few dollars into our pillows........

    I was out of dentistry for a long while and can't comment on the current state of conditions. But during the early 90s, as a fresh grad, I faxed 50 resumes, got 3 interviews, and received 3 offers. I was offered a salary of 55k/yr, no kidding. I don't know why I accepted it, but I ended up hating it and quit really early. I wasn't able to find anything halfway decent. I tried reverting to the types of the crappy job I had earlier but I wasn't able to find those anymore either. And so I stopped searching and it all went downhill from then on.
     
  24. ItsGavinC

    Dentist Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2001
    Messages:
    11,749
    Likes Received:
    11
    Status:
    Dentist
    You've been out of the loop for too long. My classmates and I graduate next week. They've had no trouble finding jobs in Arizona or out of state. Many of them found jobs in 4-5 days. The income average seems to be 110k, and that includes jobs that are out of state (although they are all in the West).

    We are used to seeing 8-15 patients a day, so perhaps that factors into the process, but the Arizona dental association monthly magazine has multiple (20+) listings in the classifieds section for associates from $100k-140k.
     
  25. psiyung

    psiyung 1K Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    2,421
    Likes Received:
    25
    :laugh:

    There is a professor who teaches part time at my school. Supposedly, this guy was some hot shot dentist back in the day. The kind of dentist that was banking millions. When I was D1 he rode down to school in a brand new Hummer. The following year he was driving an F-150 to school, so I decided to ask him:

    Me: Hey Doc, where's that beautiful Hummer?

    Him: Had to sell it

    Me: Sell it? How come?:confused:

    Him: Gas is too damn expensive

    Me: (kind of getting the picture and not trying to get to personal). Doc, what kind of figures are we expected to make when we get out? Ballpark.

    Him: I'd say once your established, you can bring home anywhere from 100-140K.

    Me: Really? I thought there were tons of dentists out there netting 500K a year?

    Him: Let me tell you something son. All dentists are liars.


    Now just around my school and ask any student about this professor. They will all tell you that he's some bigshot that is so rich and bored he has nothing better to do than come teach at school. Or so they think
     
  26. ku06

    ku06 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    .
     
    #24 ku06, May 11, 2007
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
  27. 12YearOldKid

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2004
    Messages:
    775
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Dentist
    If you read closely, the ADA's figure of $180,000 ONLY includes practice owners.
     
  28. jfitzpat

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2005
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Dental Student
    This is what their site says, but it can only be based on selective disclosure because they don't have access to private tax records. So take the number with a grain of salt; it could be higher, lower, or (doubtfully) correct.
     
  29. OceanBlue

    OceanBlue HA! I knew it.

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Dental Student
    I don't think you should accept anything less than 120K a year when you get out of school. I asked my dentist yesterday.... if I was offered 130K fresh out of school...should I take it? He told me that 130K is a bit low. That was his opinion. This is in North Carolina.
    ...i'm thinking in the future...i might want to take that 130k-140k and work for a year then start my own practice.
     
  30. Lesley

    Lesley Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    16
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I think you have a very good attitude. Do not to undervalue yourself in what looks to be a growing and competitive market for dentists. Good Luck. :luck:
     
  31. HuyetKiem

    HuyetKiem Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2004
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Dentist
    Some of the practices that I've known in Houston offer 50% for RCT and 35% production for other procedures with no lab fee. An associate with 1 or 2 yrs experience usually brings home an average 7-10k every 2 weeks.
     
  32. KOM

    KOM Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Dental Student
    Saw my father's tax return one year. ~200 G.

    He works 4 days a week, owns his own practice, and takes about 7-10 different trips a year. 1) Arizona for golf, 2) Iowa for pheasant hunting, 3) MN for deer hunting, 4) MN to see relatives 5) Hawaii for ADA meeting 6) Cali to see friends 7) Cold Bay for duck hunting and on average about 2 more random trips a year...some very luxurious, some not.

    Perhaps people don't think 100 G is enough, but this past year I was making about 45 grand and I was still able to purchase some nice things...42' plasma flat screen, 270 remington rifle, 8 day cruise, eat out all the time, and then some. Anything over 100G will take you pretty far I'd like to think, though I know we all have different standards of living.
     
  33. Lesley

    Lesley Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    16
    Status:
    Attending Physician
  34. shamrock2006

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    802
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Dental Student
    while I have no doubt the earning potential is there for dentists...I do (and I was also guilty of this at one point) believe that many pre-dents, and even some current dental students, probably are a little misguided when it comes to what type of $$ they can expect right out of school. I mean you see some saying you'll get 150k easily, I'm just not as easily convinced. Maybe i'm just really really naive but I can't for the life of me see an established dentist paying that type of a salary to a fresh grad...only b/c, as i've been told very frequently, fresh grads are liabilities...their skills are minimal....how can someone afford to pay that type of money to someone who still has so much to learn? don't get me wrong...if this is the norm..and you can get something like this...that is awesome and more power to you! If it is the case maybe military wasn't such a great choice :laugh: (just kiddin) ....but either way, I think people tend to get slightly ahead of themselves. The money will be there..but it's not like...a graduation present. But hey, like I said, if you get that offer...then you rock. I'm just saying dont be "too" shocked if it doesnt happen right off the bat.
     
  35. Lesley

    Lesley Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    16
    Status:
    Attending Physician

    I don't think many individual dentists can make an offer of $150,000/yr to a new grad or maybe even an established dentist, but "dental businesses" are willing to offer lucrative pay packages to new and established dentists. An accountant that works in Philly for a large firm told us one of their accounts is a large dental organization, and they are offering "very good" pay packages with a lot of incentives and pay increases for those that can produce. So, this figure is very possible under this circumstance for even a new dentist. It's also possible, an individual dentist with a booming practice would also be willing to pay for the right producer. It just depends on the practice and the employee.

    :thumbup: Also wanted to add that even pharmacists who work for large organizations are likely to get a better pay package than those that work for small, privately owned pharmacies. The money appears to be in working for larger, established and efficiently run organizations. Where someone chooses to work is often a lifestyle choice, it's not always about money and it's nice to have choices! :)

    Best Wishes and Good Luck Everyone!
     
  36. OceanBlue

    OceanBlue HA! I knew it.

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2007
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Dental Student
    Hey bro Kiem! Those are some nice numbers. I might want to move down to Houston to practice. Let's play with the numbers a little bit.
    365 days/7=52weeks
    ~4.25k/week * 52 weeks= ~225k/year
    you might want to take some time off, so I say it's ~200k/year .....uhmmm i'll take that :D
     
  37. OceanDMD

    OceanDMD Rather be fishing

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Dentist

    I am going to call complete BS on this one. 1 to 2 years out, 4 k per week, well lets see......thats 208k/year. Not even as a practice owner. As a practice owner (considering the average makes around 200k), why in the hell would you pay an associate 200k unless they are producing 500-700 k. One or two years out, not only do you have to have speed, but also a pool of patients that need alot of work, and have plenty of money to pay for it.

    And this crap about paying 50% for root canal therapy, since when does a first or second year out dentist perform complicated molar endo, or premolar endo for that matter at the standard of care required for longterm good prognosis? Molars and premolars are more likely candidates for RCT that your single rooted anteriors.(although many anteriors-lower anteriors-have multiple canals). Go to dentaltown and check out what endodontists are doing with molar endo.

    Unless you are signing on to a dental corp or mill, a good contract(as an associate) will pay you about 35% of collections. Collections should be about 95-99% of your adjusted production. Work out the numbers, if you want to make 200k,......you better have a generous employer, lots of new patients, and the ability to produce $571,428.00----which is above the average practice owner based on recent surveys.
     
  38. albany11

    albany11 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    130k is low?? I'll take it if they offered 100k guaranteed
    Do they give benefits?

    why can't I find these practices? The ones I looked offered 88k, 95k, 100k
    guarantee or option for 35% collection/33% production (more risk though)-- but previous associates did 104k, 133k, 180k, 145k, 110k, 94k, 80k, 190k--------it varies on how hard and long you work , etc
     
  39. PlanB21

    PlanB21 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2006
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pre-Dental
    Maybe you should look for a husband or wife in school if you don't already have one if your so worried about the salary issue. Both you guys can be making around 220-240K right out of school. But then you'll have twice the debt. It is funny. This is the plan that most of the girls I know who got in this year are going to do...:eek:
     
  40. albany11

    albany11 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2004
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Another thing, most doctors (99.5%) MD, DDS will never be rich.
    you can live a very comfortable life. 20-30 years flies, remember that

    I hope you became a health care professional to take care of people
    who need and want your help. I see too many engulfed in making money that they forget their priority:

    when I was young, this DDS wanted $2500 for a 3 unit bridge.
    I had $2000 in cash and offered to make payments on the rest.
    %$## told me to come back when I have the rest of the money.

    people!! have a good heart and help those people who really need and want it. Give them discounts. some charity is good for the heart.
    But be wary of people who don't show, entitled people
    on welfare who don't work(lazy bums--work 3 jobs if you have to)
    and unappreciative people.
     
  41. thefrontrow

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Pharmacy Student
    My (or my family's and even some friends and their families) experience with dentists hasn't been a good one. All seem to be very focussed on making money and no one has actually cared to provide good treatment. Some working on FOUR patients at once. Recently, my dad's friends daughter (she is like 5) got a needle stuck into her lips b/c the dentist was busy telling her employee about some crap, so he wasn't even looking.
    So, I think, at the end of the day, if and when I do become a dentist, I am just gonna end up as a greedy person who isn't satisfied with 95%ile income I am earning.:(
     
  42. DrJeff

    DrJeff Senior Member
    Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    322
    Status:
    Dentist

    The DDI (Dual Dental Income) isn't a bad thing:D
    The DDD (Dual Dental debt) can be an intimidating thing:(
    The DDM (Dual Dentist Marriage) could be a real scary thing:scared: :rolleyes: :eek:
     
  43. DrJeff

    DrJeff Senior Member
    Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    322
    Status:
    Dentist
    Remember the way you feel about these situations for when you're out in private practice. Then do things the way that you feel is right. The rest will take care of itself, no if's and's or but's about it.
     
  44. johntara04

    johntara04 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    Messages:
    585
    Likes Received:
    0
    Remember this post when you are out practicing and the insurance co. you signed up with are only paying you half your fees, and it seems like every patient you see complains about what they have to pay, asks you if you are telling them they need a crown so you can go to Hawaii next month, and tries to get a discount from you.

    You get to a point where you have to draw a line and say, this is it, if you can't meet me on this side of the line, then sorry, you need to go somewhere else. If you can meet me on this side of the line, I will do everything in my power and expertise to help you.
     
  45. DrJeff

    DrJeff Senior Member
    Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    322
    Status:
    Dentist
    One of most eye opening things I did with my practice from a patient perspective view, was drop my "preferred provider" status with just about all the insurance companies (Delta Dental excluded). Just about everyone still comes to my practice that did before, we still submit their claims directly to their insurance companies, its juts that now they get to deal with all thr run-arounds, delays and various shenanigans that ins. companies like to pull. Many a patient has commented that they had no idea what went on with ins. companies and the games that they play. How I like to explain the concept behind an insurance company to a patient is that they're for profit companies who over your lifetime would find it better for their bottom lines if patients had all their teeth extracted and dentures made. This way they have a 1 time big pay out (the exo's/denture fabrication) and then smaller payouts (relines and the occassional new denture) after a decade or so. Less claims to process, less $$ to pay out, less need for as many employees to process the claims, bettter looking financial numbers for wall street. Next time you want to put it in perspective, take a look at what the financials are of most health insurance companies are, many of them have profits not that far behind the oil companies:idea:, but yet they keep short changing us as practitioners and many haven't increased a yearly maximum alotment since the 70's(rant over now)
     
  46. anamod

    anamod Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2000
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm in this situation and my wife and just decided that we will be working seperate, we feel in the long run it will be better for our marriage.
     
  47. DrJeff

    DrJeff Senior Member
    Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    322
    Status:
    Dentist
    My office is about 30 miles from my wife's office. That's about as close as we want to be to practicing together:D Both of us agree that we could never practice in the same office, the 24/7 thing both in home life and professional life would be way to much for us;)
     
  48. ItsGavinC

    Dentist Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2001
    Messages:
    11,749
    Likes Received:
    11
    Status:
    Dentist
    Is this a serious comment? When did you graduate? The standard of care would be a solid fill to the apex (or perhaps 1mm short) with no voids (especially in the apical third). Is that extremely difficult?
     
  49. ItsGavinC

    Dentist Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2001
    Messages:
    11,749
    Likes Received:
    11
    Status:
    Dentist
    You're right, 150k would not be the norm and is on the high end. Still, 100-120k isn't a far cry. Many associates are paid $450-500 a day. Give 4 weeks for vacation and you have 240 working days (5 days a week). That's 108k-120k before taxes. Not at all unfathomable.

    Doctors can afford to pay associates that much because it is an investment. The only question is how soon it will pay off. For many it pays off instantly. As long as you are increasing the office production then you are a sound monetary investment. For that $120k the doctor is paying the associate, the associate is probably making the doctor $70k after all expenses are calculated. That's usually an easy $70k. Mileage varies from case to case of course.
     
  50. Lesley

    Lesley Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2006
    Messages:
    707
    Likes Received:
    16
    Status:
    Attending Physician

    After 26 years of marriage and 23 years of practicing together, working together, although not always at the same time, feels very comfortable. It's what we decided on from the beginning. I'm sure we both knew we needed the situation to work, but I don't remember too many disagreements. Over the years we've had arguments, but no more that we would have had with an associate. When we come home our focus has been our children, our home, our pets and what should we do with our free time! If one of has to vent about work, we just let them go ahead till they run out of steam. It can work without too much difficulty, and it can be very beneficial.
     
  51. DrJeff

    DrJeff Senior Member
    Moderator Emeritus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2000
    Messages:
    2,794
    Likes Received:
    322
    Status:
    Dentist

    Gavin is right on with this one. Essentially anytime a doc brings an associate in, they will gain from it, the vast majority of the time the gain is financial, and often its in the form of free time too. The bottom line is that as a "senior" doc, if your looking to bring an associate in, you're going to see an expansion in the number of treatment patient treatment hours with in many cases not that big of an increase in your overhead. If an associate can do just 1 filling an hour(asuming a fee of $100 minimum), you've typically covered the added overhead to the office at a per diem rate of between $400 to $500 a day. In many instances, where you see an associate right away making closer to $150,000 its in a situation where they're being paid on a percentage. Once you've been in a new, busy parctice for a few months, you've started building a patient base, and very likely that patient base will allow a new associate to bill $1500 to $2000 a day(not that tough a number given that 1 big procedure a day {i.e. an endo or a crown} will often cost close to $1000 in many areas of the country and that then gives you another 6.5 to 7 hours to produce the remaining $500 to $1000 to hit that daily number). Produce that per day over that 240 workday per year and you've just done roughly $350,000 to $450,000 in year which at a 33% collection rate, accounting for a couple % uncollectable cash would net you $115,000 to $150,000. Not that far fetched. Heck, nowadays, you can often end up billing close to if not over $1000 for a quadrant of direct composite fillings. And by the way, if you're producing/earning those types of dollars, I will flat out tell you that as a senior doc, in my office, I'd be making a solid 15% or so of your production off you, minimum.

    The numbers tend to add up quite quickly these days, if you have the skills(both technical and people) and the work ethic to do it. If you just sit back and expect it to be handed to you, well then you might find things a bit different.

    If you're in
     
  52. OceanDMD

    OceanDMD Rather be fishing

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2006
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Dentist
    Boy, that really clears everything up now!

    I guess its just that simple isnt it. How many times have you found second and third mesial buccal canals in max 6 year molars? All I am saying is that there is a push to consider standard of care (especially in molars) treatment with a microscope. Maybe your educational experiance was different, and you treated hundreds of canals WITH SCOPES. And yes, I know how to treat endo. I've done over a hundred molar cases since graduation. Interesting tone for a moderator.
     

Share This Page