Dental school debt ,should I do it ?

[smileystudent87]

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Because who the hell wants to sacrifice even more after you have studied your ass off for the last 8 years in undergrad/dental school? Trust me most are not gonna want to be told where to work/live after graduation and will succumb to doing IBR while maintaining their middle/upper middle class lifestyle. I know 99% of my classmates stayed in the area or went back to their home(suburbs/major city) to be close with family/significant others. There will be outliers who decided to join military, NHSC and they are the ones who would actually move to rural areas to make more and attack their loans as fast as possible if they didn't get accepted into the scholarship programs.

So yeah. Please think hard before taking on 400k+ debt. You can say all you want about living frugally, moving to rural areas to make more, and leave your family/potential significant others behind, etc but that's gonna be really hard to do. I am not saying you can't succeed and make bank after graduation but you need to look at the facts.

omg yeah im not saying take on 400k in loans im saying work to even pay off 350k in loans... like imo why extend the amount of money u will have to pay bc of interest only bc u want to work 3-4 days a week and live a nice lifestyle when u can work 5 days a week.... (not a lot...) and pay them off in like 5 years aggressively. ig its about how u look at it personally to me short term suffering is better for my long term goal

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

You definitely have to be careful and cognizant of how much money you’re taking out in loans. Dental schools are far too expensive.

That being said, if you are a hard worker there can be A LOT of money in dentistry. There’s no reason you can’t be doing $200-300k your first couple of years out if you are willing to work hard. That means working 5-6 days per week. Jumping in and doing more advanced procedures like molar endo, multiple tooth restorative, Invisalign, and implants.

I went to one of the most expensive schools in the country. I limited my debt during school as much as possible, and limited my expenses during my first year out of school. I’ll have my loans paid off by the end of my first full year practicing.

It CAN be done, but you have to be willing to do things that your peers are not willing to do. While they work 4 day weeks and travel to Bali while racking up debt you need to be working 6 day weeks and eating rice and beans.

The benefit of a 3 year dental school is that you have an extra year of practicing making dentist money. If you graduate with $400k of debt in three years and throw $100k at them that first year out, that’s equivalent to graduating from a 4 year school with $300k. Not the worst case scenario.

 

[smileystudent87]

You definitely have to be careful and cognizant of how much money you’re taking out in loans. Dental schools are far too expensive.

That being said, if you are a hard worker there can be A LOT of money in dentistry. There’s no reason you can’t be doing $200-300k your first couple of years out if you are willing to work hard. That means working 5-6 days per week. Jumping in and doing more advanced procedures like molar endo, multiple tooth restorative, Invisalign, and implants.

I went to one of the most expensive schools in the country. I limited my debt during school as much as possible, and limited my expenses during my first year out of school. I’ll have my loans paid off by the end of my first full year practicing.

It CAN be done, but you have to be willing to do things that your peers are not willing to do. While they work 4 day weeks and travel to Bali while racking up debt you need to be working 6 day weeks and eating rice and beans.

The benefit of a 3 year dental school is that you have an extra year of practicing making dentist money. If you graduate with $400k of debt in three years and throw $100k at them that first year out, that’s equivalent to graduating from a 4 year school with $300k. Not the worst case scenario.

can i pm u?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

can i pm u?

Of course!

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

And just like that we slide into the DMs…

Big Hoss

 

[OncePreDent]

You definitely have to be careful and cognizant of how much money you’re taking out in loans. Dental schools are far too expensive.

That being said, if you are a hard worker there can be A LOT of money in dentistry. There’s no reason you can’t be doing $200-300k your first couple of years out if you are willing to work hard. That means working 5-6 days per week. Jumping in and doing more advanced procedures like molar endo, multiple tooth restorative, Invisalign, and implants.

I went to one of the most expensive schools in the country. I limited my debt during school as much as possible, and limited my expenses during my first year out of school. I’ll have my loans paid off by the end of my first full year practicing.

It CAN be done, but you have to be willing to do things that your peers are not willing to do. While they work 4 day weeks and travel to Bali while racking up debt you need to be working 6 day weeks and eating rice and beans.

The benefit of a 3 year dental school is that you have an extra year of practicing making dentist money. If you graduate with $400k of debt in three years and throw $100k at them that first year out, that’s equivalent to graduating from a 4 year school with $300k. Not the worst case scenario.

Completely agree. This is the biggest perk about going to Roseman or UoP (though UoP is significantly more expensive). Instead of paying $100k more in tuition, you make $150k.

During orientation at Roseman, we had a 2-hour lecture on financial aid, loans, etc. & I believe in 2021 [could be a different year, I wasn't paying to close attention to the year], the average graduate from Roseman had around $430k in debt. I think people graduating in 2025 will be closer to $500k. However, with this new 3-year program, accounting for living costs, tuition, fees, the average will be around $100k less than previous years (bringing it closer to the average dental school). I was looking at the previous forms & people graduating from the 3-year program in 2026 will have around the same tuition cost as the people that graduated from Roseman in 2016.

I just searched the forms in 2012 (look at post #16): ROSEMAN vs. LECOM

2012 Tuition & fees at Roseman were $74k + $76k + 78k+ $81k (assume 3% increase ever year) = $310k
2023 Tuition & fees at Roseman are $104k + $107k + $110k (assume 3% increase ever year) = $321k + 1 extra year of income

 

[Thehighwind87]

Completely agree. This is the biggest perk about going to Roseman or UoP (though UoP is significantly more expensive). Instead of paying $100k more in tuition, you make $150k.

During orientation at Roseman, we had a 2-hour lecture on financial aid, loans, etc. & I believe in 2021 [could be a different year, I wasn't paying to close attention to the year], the average graduate from Roseman had around $430k in debt. I think people graduating in 2025 will be closer to $500k. However, with this new 3-year program, accounting for living costs, tuition, fees, the average will be around $100k less than previous years (bringing it closer to the average dental school). I was looking at the previous forms & people graduating from the 3-year program in 2026 will have around the same tuition cost as the people that graduated from Roseman in 2016.

I just searched the forms in 2012 (look at post #16): ROSEMAN vs. LECOM

2012 Tuition & fees at Roseman were $74k + $76k + 78k+ $81k (assume 3% increase ever year) = $310k
2023 Tuition & fees at Roseman are $104k + $107k + $110k (assume 3% increase ever year) = $321k + 1 extra year of income

Crazy to see how tuition has increased so much while dental income has not even kept up one bit. Dental income has declined through and through.

 

[Roto Picante]

I graduated in 2013 as a non resident at a state school. I did HPSP so no debt but my classmates graduated with 350-375K in debt. "Everyone" is doing just fine.

Right now, everyone is up in arms about the rise in the cost of attendance and I agree that it has gotten ridiculous. The system is broken and at the expense of the little guy. Something needs to change. But individually, $350k is totally manageable. You won't make just $120k-150k very long, your income SHOULD increase over time. If it doesn't, it is no one's fault but your own. Work hard as an associate for a short time and plan to own in less than 5 years and you will be just fine.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

But individually, $350k is totally manageable.

The problem is the ever growing list of schools that cost $600,000+. Can you imagine graduating from USC or NYU and owing $750,000?!

Big Hoss

 

[Roto Picante]

The problem is the ever growing list of schools that cost $600,000+. Can you imagine graduating from USC or NYU and owing $750,000?!

Big Hoss

I totally agree with you. It is sad that $350k is a good deal. The OP should consider themselves lucky and go for it.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I graduated in 2013 as a non resident at a state school. I did HPSP so no debt but my classmates graduated with 350-375K in debt. "Everyone" is doing just fine.

Right now, everyone is up in arms about the rise in the cost of attendance and I agree that it has gotten ridiculous. The system is broken and at the expense of the little guy. Something needs to change. But individually, $350k is totally manageable. You won't make just $120k-150k very long, your income SHOULD increase over time. If it doesn't, it is no one's fault but your own. Work hard as an associate for a short time and plan to own in less than 5 years and you will be just fine.

Everyone I know that graduated in my class of 2011 is doing "just fine."

Everyone is doing "just fine" when:

1) Tuition was cheap 200-300k
2) Houses were cheap 300-500k- 1 Million back in the day got you literally a mansion with acres
3) Reimbursement was fine for what it was
4) 0% rates means all loans were cheap money and stocks were melting up everyday based on buybacks and cheap money financial acrobatics.

Today:
1) We have debt averaging 500k with upwards to 750-1mil
2) A starter home is double the price 600k-1 mil in some markets...1 MIL is the MINIMUM
3) Reimbursement has barely budged- its' practically the SAME from 2011.
4) We have 7-8% rates meaning money is expensive.

Let's face it, times are about to get tough for alot of people- in medicine, real estate, dentistry, tech etc. But AT THE VERY LEAST- those jobs have pricing power. Unless you are some fictional FFS unicorn, then you will slowly be eaten away by inflation.

Funny story I passed by the other day, bus driver- local-unionized starting pay 35$ an hour. When I started as a dentist 50$ an hour was the minimum. 15$ pay difference for 8 years of schooling and 6 figures of debt. I wouldn't be surprised if it hits 40$ and dentist starting is 50-75. Hygienists in my area are already flirting with starting salaries of new grad dentists. 65-75 an hour!!!!

Times are going to get really tough for people. Fortunately for me, I saw this coming a long time ago, and have used all my excess income to invest and hedge. So while my income remains the "same" my stocks have made up lost ground and now I don't have to work as hard.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see where dentistry is going. Anyone saying otherwise is in denial.

 

[Roto Picante]

Everyone I know that graduated in my class of 2011 is doing "just fine."

Everyone is doing "just fine" when:

1) Tuition was cheap 200-300k
2) Houses were cheap 300-500k- 1 Million back in the day got you literally a mansion with acres
3) Reimbursement was fine for what it was
4) 0% rates means all loans were cheap money and stocks were melting up everyday based on buybacks and cheap money financial acrobatics.

Today:
1) We have debt averaging 500k with upwards to 750-1mil
2) A starter home is double the price 600k-1 mil in some markets...1 MIL is the MINIMUM
3) Reimbursement has barely budged- its' practically the SAME from 2011.
4) We have 7-8% rates meaning money is expensive.

Let's face it, times are about to get tough for alot of people- in medicine, real estate, dentistry, tech etc. But AT THE VERY LEAST- those jobs have pricing power. Unless you are some fictional FFS unicorn, then you will slowly be eaten away by inflation.

Funny story I passed by the other day, bus driver- local-unionized starting pay 35$ an hour. When I started as a dentist 50$ an hour was the minimum. 15$ pay difference for 8 years of schooling and 6 figures of debt. I wouldn't be surprised if it hits 40$ and dentist starting is 50-75. Hygienists in my area are already flirting with starting salaries of new grad dentists. 65-75 an hour!!!!

Times are going to get really tough for people. Fortunately for me, I saw this coming a long time ago, and have used all my excess income to invest and hedge. So while my income remains the "same" my stocks have made up lost ground and now I don't have to work as hard.

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see where dentistry is going. Anyone saying otherwise is in denial.

I'll reiterate my original point....individually the OP will have $350K in debt. The average dental student debt has no bearing on the OP's situation. This was my advice for this one student. If they'd said they were looking at 500-600K I would have responded differently.

My personal philosophy on the subject resides somewhere between @charlestweed (just work your brains out and you will be fine) and your doom and gloom views. Predental and dental students need to know what they are getting into, but all doom and gloom doesn't paint the whole picture.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I'll reiterate my original point....individually the OP will have $350K in debt. The average dental student debt has no bearing on the OP's situation. This was my advice for this one student. If they'd said they were looking at 500-600K I would have responded differently.

My personal philosophy on the subject resides somewhere between @charlestweed (just work your brains out and you will be fine) and your doom and gloom views. Predental and dental students need to know what they are getting into, but all doom and gloom doesn't paint the whole picture.

Fair enough. The way I see the monetary policy going...a few rate cuts, a booming market, reinflation of the housing market along with driving up of wages...and you will soon see normal entry level jobs- clerk-cashiers flirting with 30...40...50 an hour which begs to ask the question...why even go into higher education? Oh well, stocks should rip go to new highs as dollar devalues and fed continues easing. Wham bam, 30$ lunch meals, 30$ min wage, and 1 million dollar houses.

 

[LFA20]

Fair enough. The way I see the monetary policy going...a few rate cuts, a booming market, reinflation of the housing market along with driving up of wages...and you will soon see normal entry level jobs- clerk-cashiers flirting with 30...40...50 an hour which begs to ask the question...why even go into higher education? Oh well, stocks should rip go to new highs as dollar devalues and fed continues easing. Wham bam, 30$ lunch meals, 30$ min wage, and 1 million dollar houses.

I would not just bank on stocks ripping and making ATH. Corporate profits have been declining and rates are gonna stay high for a while.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I would not just bank on stocks ripping and making ATH. Corporate profits have been declining and rates are gonna stay high for a while.

That is what logic tells us- and logic has told us that stocks should of crashed long ago. Yet here we are <10% away from ath with some stocks up 100-300%

However, the way I see it- and the way I think the market sees it- is that we cannot have high rates for "a while" because corporate debt is to large, and the economy IS slowing. The fed wants a soft landing with maximum employment and lower inflation. If they hold high for to long- you risk a contagion or credit event.

The data shows lending and credit creation has slowed, there is an uptick in bankruptcies, and inflation is slowing year over year.

The market sees this and understands that most likely the most likely outcome will be rate cuts and accomodative monetary policies- which they are pricing in- why do you think the sp500 is up. People are pricing that in and buying ahead of time. In addition, the market believes that if there is contagion- then the fed will cut rates and bailout (aka print money) which in itself is bullish.

Those that believed that stocks would not rip and economy would crater etc- missed out on one of the best rallies ever. I'm up 40% YTD. I wish I was up more but I don't concentrate that heavily into tech. Best of luck investing. We will see what happens!

 

[charlestweed]

You won't make just $120k-150k very long, your income SHOULD increase over time. If it doesn't, it is no one's fault but your own. Work hard as an associate for a short time and plan to own in less than 5 years and you will be just fine.

Exactly. $150k/year is the starting salary. If you don’t make significantly more after 2-3 years working as a dentist, the only person to blame is yourself. With more experience, you will make fewer clinical mistakes. You will be able to perform more procedures with less time. If the office that you work for can’t provide you enough patients to keep you busy, you get a 2nd job at another dental office. You should maximize your earning potential (AKA working 5 or more days per week) when you are capable of doing so….when you are still young (in your mid 20s, early 30s) and healthy (zero hand/back pain)….when you have plenty of time (no family, no kid…or have kids but they are still very little). Dentists, who are eager to learn new things and work hard, tend to have stronger clinical skills and become more successful than dentists who aren’t. A dentist should make at least $300-350k when he is at the height of his career. There are not lot of careers out there that allow one to earn that kind of income.

I make less than I what I made 3-4 years ago. It’s not because the profession is on the decline. It’s because of some of the decisions that I made. Since all the loans were paid off, I chose to work less days (from 23-24 days/month to just 17 days/month). My practice has lost a lot of new patients because I no longer put in the same effort that I once did when I was younger. It’s ok….I am getting older…less patients = less stress. It’s time for the younger more energetic doctors to take over the profession.

Forget about investing when you are drowning in debt. Work hard now and pay off debts ASAP. You will thank yourself later. Dentistry is a wonderful profession.

 

[jqrsDental]

General dentistry is still worth it to me unless the debt exceeded 350k. The ability to gain skills, have mentors, or specialize if desired makes it a no-brainer for me.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Exactly. $150k/year is a starting salary. If you don’t make significantly more after 2-3 years working as a dentist, the only person to blame is yourself. With more experience, you will make fewer clinical mistakes. You will be able to perform more procedures with less time. If the office that you work for can’t provide you enough patients to keep you busy, you get a 2nd job at another dental office. You should maximize your earning potential (AKA working 5 or more days per week) when you are capable of doing so….when you are still young (in your mid 20s, early 30s) and healthy (zero hand/back pain)….when you have plenty of time (no family, no kid…or have kids but they are still very little). Dentists, who are eager to learn new things and work hard, tend to have stronger clinical skills and become more successful than dentists who aren’t. A dentist should make at least $300-350k when he is at the height of his career. There are not lot careers out there that allow one to earn that kind of income.

I make less than I what I made 3-4 years ago. It’s not because the profession is on the decline. It’s because of some of the decisions that I made. Since all the loans were paid off, I chose to work less days (from 23-24 days/month to just 17 days/month). My practice has lost a lot of new patients because I no longer put in the same effort that I once did when I was younger. It’s ok….I am getting older…less patients = less stress. It’s time for the younger more energetic doctors to take over the profession.

Forget about investing when you are drowning in debt. Work hard now and pay off debts ASAP. You will thank yourself later. Dentistry is a wonderful profession.

Everything about this is 100% accurate. I’m just over a year into this career, making more than that $350k you posted about…as an associate. My take home today was over $3k. I work 5 full days per week and two Saturdays per month. My debts are paid for. I’m young and have a whole career ahead of me. I’ll be in a position to work less when I am older.

I know the costs of school are getting out of hand, but I don’t know of many (if any) careers that could have given me the opportunity I have. I would find it hard to dissuade someone from going into dentistry.

 

[Roto Picante]

I make less than I what I made 3-4 years ago. It’s not because the profession is on the decline. It’s because of some of the decisions that I made. Since all the loans were paid off, I chose to work less days (from 23-24 days/month to just 17 days/month). My practice has lost a lot of new patients because I no longer put in the same effort that I once did when I was younger. It’s ok….I am getting older…less patients = less stress. It’s time for the younger more energetic doctors to take over the profession.

I am glad you are able to slow down.

I have a set of honest questions for you and other dentists in a similar stage in your career. Rather than let the asset that is your business lose value? Why not hire an associate and keep the place running at the same rate or more and THEN slow down yourself? OR sell your business and get out when it is the most valuable? Why let your the hard work of your long career depreciate?

I have seen way too many dentists hold on for longer than I thought they should until they can't sell their business because revenue has dropped too much. Example from just this month. There is an older dentist in my community that has been trying to sell his practice for the last 2 years. He is asking a pretty penny because it is his pride and joy. He has labored for more than 3 decades. But unfortunately, its not worth what it was even 5 years ago because he slowed way down. And now he wont come down on price because he emotionally feels it is worth more. In the end he couldn't sell it but for various reasons he HAS to stop working. And rather than come down on price, he is just closing his doors this month. In my opinion, if you have made it to 60 and you haven't started the transition process, you are likely losing money in the long run.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I am glad you are able to slow down.

I have a set of honest question for you and other dentists in a similar stage in your career. Rather than let the asset that is your business lose value? Why not hire an associate and keep the place running at the same rate or more and THEN slow down yourself? OR sell your business and get out when it is the most valuable? Why let your the hard work of your long career depreciate?

I have seen way too many dentists hold on for longer than I thought they should until they can't sell their business because revenue has dropped too much. Example from just this month. There is an older dentist in my community that has been trying to sell his practice for the last 2 years. He is asking a pretty penny because it is his pride and joy. He has labored for more than 3 decades. But unfortunately, its not worth what it was even 5 years ago because he slowed way down. And now he wont come down on price because he emotionally feels it is worth more. In the end he couldn't sell it but for various reasons he HAS to stop working. And rather than come down on price, he is just closing his doors this month. There In my opinion if you have made it to 60 and you haven't started the transition process, you are likely losing money in the long run.

Hiring an associate only works in certain practice models. In the average family practice collecting 700k-1mil 4-5 chairs- seeing families for over 30+ years- it doesn't work. Associates tend to be diva's expect alot of money/patients etc. When you invite an associate into a normal general family practice and they sit down and start diagnosing 3 crowns per patient, it doesn't work. Associates get paid on what they produce. It's very easy for me as a owner to sit back and have a light schedule, collect 1 mil in revenue and chill while getting paid 40% of that. But associates don't get any of that hygiene production, so they have to produce produce produce, and the only way to produce is by diagnosing more aggressively. In a family practice that doesn't work.

Selling your practice when it's more valuable is easier said than done. I've contemplated selling my practice but then what? I can go associate?...which will suck to be honest because once you taste making 300-400k a year on 1 column schedule to 200k on a 3 column schedule- sucks. You can sit around unemployed- but that sucks to. You can also start a new practice or buy another one? But that sucks to as your current practice is running on all cylinders.

And yes you are right, that you need to have a financial gameplan of when to sell and what to do afterwards. It's not that easy to pick up and go. Regardless, owners who are about to "retire" and sell their practice need to find an exit point so that there will be buyers.

And in my opinion, the exit point for most solo practices is coming soon. With the amount of debt that new grads have- they need large cash flowing practices to support their repayments. For example- the average 600-700k practice that takes in 200-300k income may not be enough to satisfy new grads as their loan repayment plus student loans plus house loan will dwindle that income to 50k etc. They will need big practices 1 mil+ with 50-60% overhead that can support their loan repayments while still making 200k leftover.

That's the big issue, and I believe we are at the cusp pretty much where those solo practices 600-700k just won't have buyers, and or they will sell for extremely cheap because the debt repayments need to cash flow for the buyer. And those that make less then that- will just close their doors- as there will be no buyers and who wants to take on a declining 500k practice cash flowing for 200k- and after debt repayment make like 10k a year. The lease itself will be a hassle to get rid of.

And as you can see and read in between the lines- the solo practice will ultimately be more competitive and more corporate encroachment will take over etc etc. It happened in medicine and it will happen in dentistry- and it's most due to large debt, and the fact that reimbursement stays stagnant.

 

[deleted923283]

General dentistry is still worth it to me unless the debt exceeded 350k. The ability to gain skills, have mentors, or specialize if desired makes it a no-brainer for me.

No one from any school is graduating with less than $350k unless daddy paid for school.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

No one from any school is graduating with less than $350k unless daddy paid for school.

Big Hoss

 

[Ryxndek]

No one from any school is graduating with less than $350k unless daddy paid for school.

Never heard a more true statement. 350k is like the bare minimum now. I think I’m around 375-390k for UMN if I take everything.

Pre 8% compounding interest, and not counting undergrad….

 

[charlestweed]

I am glad you are able to slow down.

I have a set of honest questions for you and other dentists in a similar stage in your career. Rather than let the asset that is your business lose value? Why not hire an associate and keep the place running at the same rate or more and THEN slow down yourself? OR sell your business and get out when it is the most valuable? Why let your the hard work of your long career depreciate?

I have seen way too many dentists hold on for longer than I thought they should until they can't sell their business because revenue has dropped too much. Example from just this month. There is an older dentist in my community that has been trying to sell his practice for the last 2 years. He is asking a pretty penny because it is his pride and joy. He has labored for more than 3 decades. But unfortunately, its not worth what it was even 5 years ago because he slowed way down. And now he wont come down on price because he emotionally feels it is worth more. In the end he couldn't sell it but for various reasons he HAS to stop working. And rather than come down on price, he is just closing his doors this month. In my opinion, if you have made it to 60 and you haven't started the transition process, you are likely losing money in the long run.

It’s different for ortho. Instead of hiring an associate, you can hire additional chairside assistants to help you handle higher patient volume. I think bringing in an associate would do more harm than good. The first obvious harm would be a significant increase in the overhead….most young orthos demand at least $1500/day in pay. Different orthodontists have different ways (tx plans and techniques) of treating their patients. The patients may get confused/upset when they hear 2 conflicting opinions from 2 different orthos. I can’t make my associate (if I hire one) to agree with me on the tx plans. It’s his/her license that he/she is practicing under. It’s hard to get the chairside assistants to adopt the new ways of doing things when they are already comfortable with me and my techniques. When then GPs refer patients to me, they expect me to tx their patients because they know my work….they don’t know anything about my associate.

I am totally fine with walking away and returning the key to the landlord when I am ready to quit. It’s a low tech office, which didn’t cost much to build. A fancy sport car is worth more than this office. So it’s like losing or giving away a car….no big deal. I don’t think any young grad will be interested in buying my low tech low fee practice.

Even if my son decides to pursue dentistry (and then specializes in ortho), I don’t think he will be interested in taking over my practice either. Most young orthodontists want to work in a high tech office with modern equipment and charge fees that are at least 2x as much as what I currently charge my patients.

 

[charlestweed]

According to many of the students on this forum, the majority of the students in their class have wealthy parents. Hopefully, the future generation dentists won’t be in too much debt. My sister in law, who is a pharmacist, had worked 7 days a week to help her daughter pay for rents and food for all 4 years of her daughter’s dental school. She also helped her other daughter, who recently graduated from med school. My 2 friends (husband and wife who are both optometrists) will do the same for their son, who will attend dental school this Fall. Neither my sister-in-law nor my optometrist friends are wealthy but they try their best to help their kids. Hopefully, these kids will become successful dentists (due to having less debt) in the future and will do the same for their own kids.

 

[Roto Picante]

According to many of the students on this forum, the majority of the students in their class have wealthy parents. Hopefully, the future generation dentists won’t be in too much debt. My sister in law, who is a pharmacist, had worked 7 days a week to help her daughter pay for rents and food for all 4 years of her daughter’s dental school. She also helped her other daughter, who recently graduated from med school. My 2 friends (husband and wife who are both optometrists) will do the same for their son, who will attend dental school this Fall. Neither my sister-in-law nor my optometrist friends are wealthy but they try their best to help their kids. Hopefully, these kids will become successful dentists (due to having less debt) in the future and will do the same for their own kids.

I admire your desire to help your kids. I hope that they are one day as generous as you. I sometimes struggle with the worry that if I provide too much help to my children financially, it may cause them to fail to launch as productive, good and moral members of society.

 

[charlestweed]

I admire your desire to help your kids. I hope that they are one day as generous as you. I sometimes struggle with the worry that if I provide too much help to my children financially, it may cause them to fail to launch as productive, good and moral members of society.

There were a lot of advantages that we, older generation, had such as much lower tuition, lower living cost, lower home prices, less competition among dentists/orthodontists etc. So helping my kids to pay for their undegrad and professional schools is the very least that my wife and I can do for them. It’s not their fault that our incompetence government took over the student loan business and has caused the cost of college education to go way up. I completely understand what you said about our kids not trying when everything is given to and is well prepared for them. That's why I don't plan to help them to set up a practice or hand my practice to them if they decide to follow my footsteps. That’s why there are certain clauses in a will that will prevent our kids from doing stupid things…..like they can’t sell the rental properties until they reach certain mature age....like 45.

 

[OncePreDent]

Never heard a more true statement. 350k is like the bare minimum now. I think I’m around 375-390k for UMN if I take everything.

Pre 8% compounding interest, and not counting undergrad….

Yeah, I am around that for Roseman too... It's rough. Add in specializing and could easily look at another $400k+ of debt (plus 2-3 years of lost income). I was talking to some people who just graduated from USC & they were talking about how a few of their friends are specializing and will have $800k-$1M+ debt. Crazy.

 

[Ryxndek]

Yeah, I am around that for Roseman too... It's rough. Add in specializing and could easily look at another $400k+ of debt (plus 2-3 years of lost income). I was talking to some people who just graduated from USC & they were talking about how a few of their friends are specializing and will have $800k-$1M+ debt. Crazy.

The ship has sailed for me to specialize I think. Realistically it doesn't seem financially sound to do it. I have about 40-50k loans from undergrad ontop of the 375k for dental school. Looking at ~425k pre-interest which adding 8% compounded onto that by the time I graduate I'm looking close to 500k in loans. I don't think I'm willing to risk residency. Even if they make a great living, you still have to work your a** off, and I don't think I want to take on another 200k+ for a speciality. I plan on probably going rural MN for practicing and just working like a dog to put as big of a dent I can in my loans right out of school.

My parents are helping a little bit, but nowhere enough to put any reasonable dent in my debt load.

 

[AONLINE]

According to many of the students on this forum, the majority of the students in their class have wealthy parents. Hopefully, the future generation dentists won’t be in too much debt. My sister in law, who is a pharmacist, had worked 7 days a week to help her daughter pay for rents and food for all 4 years of her daughter’s dental school. She also helped her other daughter, who recently graduated from med school. My 2 friends (husband and wife who are both optometrists) will do the same for their son, who will attend dental school this Fall. Neither my sister-in-law nor my optometrist friends are wealthy but they try their best to help their kids. Hopefully, these kids will become successful dentists (due to having less debt) in the future and will do the same for their own kids.

My parents are no where near wealthy but being immigrants from Asia, they understand the value of a professional degree so they paid for my college education and half of my dental school cost. Thanks to their tremendous gift I came out with $150k in debt and for that I am forever grateful, I am still trying to pay them back. Nowadays class of 2027 students can expect to pay about $360k for a dental degree from my school.

 

[LFA20]

That is what logic tells us- and logic has told us that stocks should of crashed long ago. Yet here we are <10% away from ath with some stocks up 100-300%

However, the way I see it- and the way I think the market sees it- is that we cannot have high rates for "a while" because corporate debt is to large, and the economy IS slowing. The fed wants a soft landing with maximum employment and lower inflation. If they hold high for to long- you risk a contagion or credit event.

The data shows lending and credit creation has slowed, there is an uptick in bankruptcies, and inflation is slowing year over year.

The market sees this and understands that most likely the most likely outcome will be rate cuts and accomodative monetary policies- which they are pricing in- why do you think the sp500 is up. People are pricing that in and buying ahead of time. In addition, the market believes that if there is contagion- then the fed will cut rates and bailout (aka print money) which in itself is bullish.

Those that believed that stocks would not rip and economy would crater etc- missed out on one of the best rallies ever. I'm up 40% YTD. I wish I was up more but I don't concentrate that heavily into tech. Best of luck investing. We will see what happens!

Are you continuing to buy on these recent drop? Looks like it's about to drop even more. I am itching to get back in after holding cash for so long lol...

 

[Thehighwind87]

Are you continuing to buy on these recent drop? Looks like it's about to drop even more. I am itching to get back in after holding cash for so long lol...

Nope cashed out at Spy 450. Sitting in high yield accounts and 5% money markets. I'm going to buy again for sure, but I think this time is the "big one" like 08-09/2020 sorta panic. It will come, just wait. Doesn't hurt to wait it out in 5% money markets. Made 35% YTD gain. Gonna make more when the big dip comes.

 

[LFA20]

Nope cashed out at Spy 450. Sitting in high yield accounts and 5% money markets. I'm going to buy again for sure, but I think this time is the "big one" like 08-09/2020 sorta panic. It will come, just wait. Doesn't hurt to wait it out in 5% money markets. Made 35% YTD gain. Gonna make more when the big dip comes.

LOL I see you are kind of swing trading haha. I think I'll sit on the sideline a bit more then. I fomo'ed a bit recently and bought TSLA but luckily only spent 7% of my total cash.

are you 100% cash now then?

 

[Thehighwind87]

LOL I see you are kind of swing trading haha. I think I'll sit on the sideline a bit more then. I fomo'ed a bit recently and bought TSLA but luckily only spent 7% of my total cash.

are you 100% cash now then?

Yeah getting a ton in money markets right now. Basically living free.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

I'm going to buy again for sure, but I think this time is the "big one" like 08-09/2020 sorta panic. It will come, just wait.

Macho Man agrees…

Big Hoss

 

[LFA20]

Yeah getting a ton in money markets right now. Basically living free.

You FOMO ing yet? 😜.

 

[Thehighwind87]

You FOMO ing yet? 😜.

Dude...no joke. I have had the best luck this year. NO JOKE. Yes I sold and sat in money markets but I bought right before powells press conference 11/1 and have been riding up ever since. I dunno man, I think I need to go buy a lottery ticket. This year has been one of my best trading years, but its definately alot of luck.

Best purchase on 11/1 was 39$ for Square. I honestly dunno what's going to happen in the market but this run-up has been even crazier then the January run-up earlier this year.