Dental school Loans (misconception)

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Some thaughts:

Happiness is a decision we make each and every day, you can decide to be happy or you can decide to be a jerk.

I think grad school loans are slightly higher than they should be and higher than they have been in the past. Home loans were at around 5.5% recently and the Stafford Loans are 5.8%, if you don't get the stafford loans some of the instituitional loans go as high as 8%.

That said, I think too many posts on SDN are about money and financial concerns.

Just enjoy your lives and don't worry about you million dollar homes.
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EnviroDentist said:
Some thaughts:

Happiness is a decision we make each and every day, you can decide to be happy or you can decide to be a jerk.

I think grad school loans are slightly higher than they should be and higher than they have been in the past. Home loans were at around 5.5% recently and the Stafford Loans are 5.8%, if you don't get the stafford loans some of the instituitional loans go as high as 8%.

That said, I think too many posts on SDN are about money and financial concerns.

Just enjoy your lives and don't worry about you million dollar homes.
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Staffords are at 6.8, and the grad plus is at 8.5%.

I don't think it's ever too early to start talking about the financial end of dentistry; hopefully the majority of us aren't getting into for that reason alone, but remember we are both sacrificing a good portion of our adult lives to education, and we're undertaking a massive amount of debt. We deserve (and require!) financial compensation.
 
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armorshell said:
I don't think it's ever too early to start talking about the financial end of dentistry; hopefully the majority of us aren't getting into for that reason alone, but remember we are both sacrificing a good portion of our adult lives to education, and we're undertaking a massive amount of debt. We deserve (and require!) financial compensation.
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Agreed! The way I see it is if I cannot keep my finances in order I cannot practice as a dentist and ultimately help people. I am not looking to get rich from being a dentist but my finances do need to be in order.
 
widsmtooth29 said:
Agreed! The way I see it is if I cannot keep my finances in order I cannot practice as a dentist and ultimately help people. I am not looking to get rich from being a dentist but my finances do need to be in order.
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I don't understand why some people rail against this concept so hard. It *is* possible to be both financially responsible, and to not be "all about the money."

It's not like we're suggesting you should push unnecessary treatment plans, cut staff benefits and shelter tax dollars so you can make your boat payments...
 
armorshell said:
I don't understand why some people rail against this concept so hard. It *is* possible to be both financially responsible, and to not be "all about the money."

It's not like we're suggesting you should push unnecessary treatment plans, cut staff benefits and shelter tax dollars so you can make your boat payments...
Click to expand...

That is exactly what i wanted to say. The misconception is that even though some decide to keep their finances in order does not necessarily mean they are all about money. I want to make a good living so i can provide for my family. So yes, i want to graduate with less debt and be in the best financial stand point I can be in. Does this mean i want a million dollar house or have maids and nannies running rounds in my house? nope.
 
seansk, I totally agree with your original point about loans. If taken responsibly, with a little forethought, they are more then likely going to be an investment you will never regret. There is study after study which shows that over your lifetime, a college degree pays for itself with ease. And you are also correct that at the rates you can get loans for these days, it is not the worst debt you can carry. I have all my college loans locked in at 4.25% and currently have an online savings account that pays me 5%.
I really believe it there is no debt more valuable then the debt you incur to better yourself through college. There seems to be a lot of people who disagree, but I for one agree completely with you.
 
Doctor Chief said:
seansk, I totally agree with your original point about loans. If taken responsibly, with a little forethought, they are more then likely going to be an investment you will never regret. There is study after study which shows that over your lifetime, a college degree pays for itself with ease. And you are also correct that at the rates you can get loans for these days, it is not the worst debt you can carry. I have all my college loans locked in at 4.25% and currently have an online savings account that pays me 5%.
I really believe it there is no debt more valuable then the debt you incur to better yourself through college. There seems to be a lot of people who disagree, but I for one agree completely with you.
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So all other things being equal, you'd gladly take out an extra $150,000 in student loans because they're "good debt?"
 
Doctor Chief said:
seansk, I totally agree with your original point about loans. If taken responsibly, with a little forethought, they are more then likely going to be an investment you will never regret. There is study after study which shows that over your lifetime, a college degree pays for itself with ease. And you are also correct that at the rates you can get loans for these days, it is not the worst debt you can carry. I have all my college loans locked in at 4.25% and currently have an online savings account that pays me 5%. I really believe it there is no debt more valuable then the debt you incur to better yourself through college. There seems to be a lot of people who disagree, but I for one agree completely with you.
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just because you have a low interest rate doesnt justify spending a large sum of money. education is an investment and im sure most ppl agree with you on that point, but if you can get an equivalent education at a cheaper price, why wouldnt you? i guess its mainly a question of how deep in debt you want to start. for me, i couldnt find any reason to justify spending what it costs to go to any of the private schools i was accepted to.
 
There are many reasons why people pick certain schools over other. Being "cheaper" is one of those reasons. It's also a very very good one.

If you've got the confidence to succeed in dental school and in practice, you can go ahead and ignore the price tag and not let the financial burden influence your decision.
 
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I thought straight up health professions loans were locked at 5%? At least that's what it says in a packet I have from my school. that 5% never changes.
 
shamrock2006 said:
I thought straight up health professions loans were locked at 5%? At least that's what it says in a packet I have from my school. that 5% never changes.
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dude.. I sooo pray you are right, but am pretty 99.9% sure that it's not the case which really really sucks
 
shamrock2006 said:
I thought straight up health professions loans were locked at 5%? At least that's what it says in a packet I have from my school. that 5% never changes.
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HPSL loans are 5% subsidized, but are incredibly hard to come by, require "financial hardship", and are usually limited to around $10,000.

Your bread and butter are going to be subsidized and unsubsidized staffords, which are 6.8%. If you're one of the lucky ones who needs over the stafford max ($195,000 including undergrad, but that is apparently going up in July), then you need to look at grad plus (8.5%) or private loans (alot%)
 
seansk said:
You must must must, invest, and own property, if you ever want to have the so called "good lifestyle."
Click to expand...

by the way...historically, real estate is not considered an investment. It is praised by financial planners because it is almost a forced savings...the bill comes every month and you slowly build up equity.

Here's the shocker for your "good lifestyle". Over the past 40 years, average home prices have only increased 56%. It's in the economics literature and been written about in all the major news papers. Do a search. AND after costs of maintaining your house, insurance, taxes, you typically have returns that follow inflation.

The one aspect of home ownership that can be considered along the lines of investing is the debt leveraging...your 20% down payment is appreciating as if it were the full value of the house.

People are all excited because of the rampant housing prices lately in the major metro areas but by and large across the US...you're not going to get rich off your house. Besides, your house is worth alot more, that's great....so is that house that is in the new neighborhood you want. Any appreciation in your own house is likely to be met with decreased buying power of those dollars.

NOW, in your USC market and LA and throughout the coasts, prices are expected to continue to beat inflation. Include those interest costs in and it's still not so great of a deal (and yes i know about income tax deductions on mortgage interest).

Sock all that money in stocks.....historic returns many times over housing returns.

AND most importantly....don't overpay for stuff.

My old buddy from HS sells knives door to door...crappy things. I'll send him your way. Crappy Product + 3xs true value = excellent deal in your mind.
 
wizziefiend said:
by the way...historically, real estate is not considered an investment. It is praised by financial planners because it is almost a forced savings...the bill comes every month and you slowly build up equity.

Here's the shocker for your "good lifestyle". Over the past 40 years, average home prices have only increased 56%. It's in the economics literature and been written about in all the major news papers. Do a search. AND after costs of maintaining your house, insurance, taxes, you typically have returns that follow inflation.

The one aspect of home ownership that can be considered along the lines of investing is the debt leveraging...your 20% down payment is appreciating as if it were the full value of the house.

People are all excited because of the rampant housing prices lately in the major metro areas but by and large across the US...you're not going to get rich off your house. Besides, your house is worth alot more, that's great....so is that house that is in the new neighborhood you want. Any appreciation in your own house is likely to be met with decreased buying power of those dollars.

NOW, in your USC market and LA and throughout the coasts, prices are expected to continue to beat inflation. Include those interest costs in and it's still not so great of a deal (and yes i know about income tax deductions on mortgage interest).

Sock all that money in stocks.....historic returns many times over housing returns.

AND most importantly....don't overpay for stuff.

My old buddy from HS sells knives door to door...crappy things. I'll send him your way. Crappy Product + 3xs true value = excellent deal in your mind.
Click to expand...

wow, you really guys really can't let this go! fine I give up, your all right, i made a mistake. Does this solve your life problems?
 
seansk said:
An average house in Los Angeles (Not even an expensive one) is about 1 to 1.2 million. If you do the math you will understand that even if you do go to the least expensive of school,
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Check this link out http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/pf/0703/gallery.high_income_zip_code_homes/8.html Not sure what you are talking about but this house is at $1.8 million and is in Beverly Hills one of the richest areas in Los Angeles. It is also featured in CNN's "mega home, mega bucks" feature story. My point? If this is a "mega home" for $1.8 million you definitely can get an "average house" for under $600 000 in Los Angeles.

To throw my $0.02 in here, attending an overpriced school sucks. Really sucks. Especially when you get a borderline poor clinical experience and could get a much better clinical experience at a cheaper school. Having to take out loans to pay for an expensive school just adds insult to injury.
 
dentofalltrades said:
To throw my $0.02 in here, attending an overpriced school sucks. Really sucks. Especially when you do not get very good clinical experience and could get a much better clinical experience at a cheaper school. Having to take out loans to pay for an expensive school just adds insult to injury.
Click to expand...

But it doesn't suck if that's the only school you got into and if you've applied 3 years running, etc., etc. It's better to receive the education and be on the path to what you want to do in life.

It isn't as if everybody gets to choose between a great clinical school with cheap tuition and a POS school. Those are the (relatively) easy decisions in life, but decisions like that are pretty rare.
 
ItsGavinC said:
But it doesn't suck if that's the only school you got into and if you've applied 3 years running, etc., etc. It's better to receive the education and be on the path to what you want to do in life.
Click to expand...

Yeah, good point. Everyone's situation is different.


ItsGavinC said:
It isn't as if everybody gets to choose between a great clinical school with cheap tuition and a POS school. Those are the (relatively) easy decisions in life, but decisions like that are pretty rare.
Click to expand...

You're right. Lots of people would love the opportunity to become a dentist. I'm just wishing I had made a much different choice. Would have been much cheaper and gotten me a better clinical education.
 
ItsGavinC said:
But it doesn't suck if that's the only school you got into and if you've applied 3 years running, etc., etc. It's better to receive the education and be on the path to what you want to do in life.

It isn't as if everybody gets to choose between a great clinical school with cheap tuition and a POS school. Those are the (relatively) easy decisions in life, but decisions like that are pretty rare.
Click to expand...

Thats a great point
 
ItsGavinC said:
But it doesn't suck if that's the only school you got into and if you've applied 3 years running, etc., etc. It's better to receive the education and be on the path to what you want to do in life.

It isn't as if everybody gets to choose between a great clinical school with cheap tuition and a POS school. Those are the (relatively) easy decisions in life, but decisions like that are pretty rare.
Click to expand...

This is where I absolutely agree, if the only school you get into is an expensive one, go!

But at the same time, don't try to justify your choice financially, and especially don't try to convince other people to drive themselves into debt, just admit the reason you are where you are. I myself didn't get accepted anywhere I would consider "cheap," and when I give people advice I always try to mention that.
 
armorshell said:
This is where I absolutely agree, if the only school you get into is an expensive one, go!

But at the same time, don't try to justify your choice financially, and especially don't try to convince other people to drive themselves into debt, just admit the reason you are where you are. I myself didn't get accepted anywhere I would consider "cheap," and when I give people advice I always try to mention that.
Click to expand...

I did get into a cheaper school, but I made a choice of staying with family and friends for personal reasons!!

What is true is that everyone has their own unique situation.
 
wizziefiend said:
by the way...historically, real estate is not considered an investment. It is praised by financial planners because it is almost a forced savings...the bill comes every month and you slowly build up equity.

Here's the shocker for your "good lifestyle". Over the past 40 years, average home prices have only increased 56%. It's in the economics literature and been written about in all the major news papers. Do a search. AND after costs of maintaining your house, insurance, taxes, you typically have returns that follow inflation.

The one aspect of home ownership that can be considered along the lines of investing is the debt leveraging...your 20% down payment is appreciating as if it were the full value of the house.

People are all excited because of the rampant housing prices lately in the major metro areas but by and large across the US...you're not going to get rich off your house. Besides, your house is worth alot more, that's great....so is that house that is in the new neighborhood you want. Any appreciation in your own house is likely to be met with decreased buying power of those dollars.

NOW, in your USC market and LA and throughout the coasts, prices are expected to continue to beat inflation. Include those interest costs in and it's still not so great of a deal (and yes i know about income tax deductions on mortgage interest).

Sock all that money in stocks.....historic returns many times over housing returns.

AND most importantly....don't overpay for stuff.

My old buddy from HS sells knives door to door...crappy things. I'll send him your way. Crappy Product + 3xs true value = excellent deal in your mind.
Click to expand...

Very good point. Also, many people think building equity is the major draw in purchasing a house because you're not simply "throwing money away" on rent. However, for the first few years you're essentially throwing your money away on the interest for your mortgage loan. You actually pay very little principle. That's another reason they advise you to stay in your house for at least 4-5 years.

I'm beginning to agree with you...rather than put that down payment into a house it might be a good idea to just invest it.

Here's a question for you though. There is an income tax deduction you can take on mortgage interest, but does that tax deduction help at all when you don't have any income for the next 4 years to begin with?
 
I think if a person is accepted to a school associated with a high price tag and not anywhere else, they should go especially if dentistry is truly there passion. If you have a choice between a high and low priced school weigh the pros and cons and see if it is worth it to pay more.

From a financial perspective it would never be a good idea to pay more for anything if you can get it somewhere for less. However, when you take money out of the equation and add in family, and possible future opportunities you have to view things differently.

Really there is no right or wrong decision you just have to pick the one that works best for you.:)
 
If you have no income...... thus you have nothing to deduct. So to answer your question KOM.... No.
 
RockstarDMD said:
If you have no income...... thus you have nothing to deduct. So to answer your question KOM.... No.
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This is true for single students. I am married so any tuition, mortgage interest, etc. can be deducted from my wife's income. It works out pretty well actually.
 
seansk said:
I did get into a cheaper school, but I made a choice of staying with family and friends for personal reasons!!

What is true is that everyone has their own unique situation.
Click to expand...

The other great reason!

Let's put it this way. If you feel comfortable in a certain location with all of the support system in place (friends, family, familiarity of how things work and where they are and a number of intangibles), why risk going to another place considering dental school is pretty intense

Of course, you risk your financial future, but it's always good to consider everything including expense.
 
RockstarDMD said:
If you have no income...... thus you have nothing to deduct. So to answer your question KOM.... No.
Click to expand...

Hehe. Sorry about that. Reading back on my post I realize that sometimes sarcasm is difficult to read/detect in writing.

Lifeisgood...you're right though about how that would be a pretty sweet deal if your wife or husband was working full time. My wife will be going to medical school so it won't help us. I wonder if married couples can declare dependency on a parent while in dental/medical school. Hell, at least I could give my parents a tax break while racking up the loans.
 
seansk said:
I did get into a cheaper school, but I made a choice of staying with family and friends for personal reasons!!

What is true is that everyone has their own unique situation.
Click to expand...

True, but again, don't try to convince people you made your choice for sound financial reasons.
 
Speaking of money, where did that spreadsheet go? The one made by some very fine person who included all loans/interests/school options on it?
 
Thanks, "very fine person" :D
 
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