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How is charging $10,000 for dentures different than charging $5,000 for Rolex watch when you can buy a Fossil for $150?
Dental Spas
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So I charge 1500 for an occlusal alloy OK in your book? My argument here is that the fee must justify for the service recieved. If you go to a restaurant and was charged 400 bucks for an 7 oz cow steak and the Chef explained to you that this piece of meat has undergone so and so and how care was taken to ensure its freshness, wouldn't you call the guy commiting fraud? If someone tells me that his dentures will:
1. Never cause a single sore spot.
2. Never need adjustments.
3. Will never need a reline.
4. Allow all types of foods to be eaten without problems.
5. Never break under any circumstances.
6. Fit as tight as natural teeth.
That I will gladly pay whatever it costs. DP
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I would probably opt for an occl. resin or inlay(composite or porcelain) myself. Id prefer not to have those great big ugly alloys stuffed in my teeth!!!
That is fine as we offer composite restorations too for a fee of 4000 per surface. DP
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This is right on.
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How did this not get mentioned sooner?
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JohnTara will know what I am talking about as we sat through this very lecture together:
How much would you charge someone to have them remove calculus from your teeth? 30 bucks? 10?
Call it calcarious concretions and they would easily pay 100 or 200.
Dentistry is business and you charge a fee set by - YOURSELF!
I know I am but a grasshopper in this field (a small larvae), but this is the sole point of owning your own business. Charging 10K in the inner city will most likely end up in defaulting on loans. Charging it in uptown, well, your bimmer gets shipped faster.
I used to own a lawn aeration business (anyone part of the 235 club?). Everyone else charge 30 bucks for the lawn. I charged 45. I got the same amount of business as my colleagues and did the same thing. In the end I got more money. Ethical? Yes, my services were worth that much because I had been doing it for many years.
You charge someone 3K for a denture, he charges someone 10K. Overhead on the denture is 1800. You take home 1200, he takes home 8200. Who cares if he offers extra minty water or 3 fittings. In the end he charges more because he LEGALLY can (no HMO's in dentistry) and because he feels it is worth that much.
I see no problem with calling it calcarious concretions and charging more.
How much would you charge someone to have them remove calculus from your teeth? 30 bucks? 10?
Call it calcarious concretions and they would easily pay 100 or 200.
Dentistry is business and you charge a fee set by - YOURSELF!
I know I am but a grasshopper in this field (a small larvae), but this is the sole point of owning your own business. Charging 10K in the inner city will most likely end up in defaulting on loans. Charging it in uptown, well, your bimmer gets shipped faster.
I used to own a lawn aeration business (anyone part of the 235 club?). Everyone else charge 30 bucks for the lawn. I charged 45. I got the same amount of business as my colleagues and did the same thing. In the end I got more money. Ethical? Yes, my services were worth that much because I had been doing it for many years.
You charge someone 3K for a denture, he charges someone 10K. Overhead on the denture is 1800. You take home 1200, he takes home 8200. Who cares if he offers extra minty water or 3 fittings. In the end he charges more because he LEGALLY can (no HMO's in dentistry) and because he feels it is worth that much.
I see no problem with calling it calcarious concretions and charging more.
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At risk of candidly saying so, this is a perfect example of what I was talking about in my first post on this thread.
Charging your patients whatever fee you desire for periodontal therapy? Every dentist's prerogative, and a good example of the autonomy that makes private practice so great.
Making up pretentious names to impede your patients' understanding of what you're doing (as in, not only failing to improve their health awareness, but actively working to diminish it) and inflate the perceived danger to their health? Completely antithetical to any concept of ethical practice.
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I agree, i should have used a better example, as it didn't quite prove my point and actually contradicts it
Forget the calculus example.
you guys know what I am saying.
Forget the calculus example.
you guys know what I am saying.
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A free market economy does not absolve us from respecting patient naivete. One of the basic assumptions of a market economy is that customers are well informed and know what they are paying for. In some cases that would take eight years worth of "patient education." Consequently, we just "teach" what we feel they need to know, and usually patients will "take your word for it." At least, if the patient trusts you. But that's a story for Guinness to tell, "Dr. Real World, get-your-nose-out-of-the-books-and-[presumably] into-the-bar-man."
Charge fees according to the dictates of your own conscience, but it would be IMMORAL to take advantage of that patient trust to unreasonably increase your profit margin. OR deliver "patient education" that persuades a patient into unnecessary more expensive procedures. I'm not saying that all patients are just staring up at you with big blue eyes asking to be ripped off, but to justify charging any fee you want because dentistry is a "business" doesn't adequately defend your position. With that said, charge what you think you're worth.
Dentistry cannot be reduced to a simple business. Patients do NOT equal simple customers.
Charge fees according to the dictates of your own conscience, but it would be IMMORAL to take advantage of that patient trust to unreasonably increase your profit margin. OR deliver "patient education" that persuades a patient into unnecessary more expensive procedures. I'm not saying that all patients are just staring up at you with big blue eyes asking to be ripped off, but to justify charging any fee you want because dentistry is a "business" doesn't adequately defend your position. With that said, charge what you think you're worth.
Dentistry cannot be reduced to a simple business. Patients do NOT equal simple customers.
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I don't see it this way at all. We are health professionals and what we deal with is serious stuff (heart surgery serious, no, but still serious). I feel that a lot of the problem with dentistry is that there isn't a lot of "medical" respect in the general public about dentistry. I feel that a lot of this problem comes from the dentists. When we respect dentistry and convey that respect to our patients (by using "pretentious" words, physicians do it, but when we do it its pretentious) they will in turn respect it. If you treat your dental work like it is nothing, then your patient will be more likely to question the cost when you show them the treatment plan and be less likely to comply. If you treat your work with the respect it deserves, when you drop a 5k treatment plan that will take 6 months to complete, they will be less likely to question it and more willing to comply. You are not being shady, or pushing un-needed treatment on the patient, you are helping them to get their teeth to the point where they are healthy, viable and long lasting.
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I might have to work the free market economy a little after seeing what the combined fixed/removeable lab bills were for my practice last month, just over $12,000 , but then again production was just over $150,000 , and believe me when I say that I'm not charging anywhere near $10,000 for 2 arches of removeable nor am I paying anything near $900 for a unit of fixed
, but then again production was just over $150,000 , and believe me when I say that I'm not charging anywhere near $10,000 for 2 arches of removeable nor am I paying anything near $900 for a unit of fixed
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And when you try to use such pretentious language to explain your treatment recommendations, you're going to have an office full of blank stares gazing back at you.
Case acceptance requires that your patients understand the problems they face without care, and the benefits of the treatment you're recommending. That means communicating to them in language that's less pretentious and more accessible, not the other way around. It means explaining their periodontal disease in terms of "ordinary plaque that becomes mineralized and starts damaging the bones & ligaments that hold your teeth firmly in place", not "calcarious deposits" or whatever term the other poster's professor used.
If you can't get them to understand the problems, you'll never get them to agree to the solutions.
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I might have to work the free market economy a little after seeing what the combined fixed/removeable lab bills were for my practice last month, just over $12,000
Wow Dr. Jeff. You are paced to do 1.8 million for the year! Thats quite an impressive practice. Are you solo? With what the ongoing opinion around here about overhead (50-60%), you are grossing like $810,000 for 2007! I don't see how you have time to post around here
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In a perfect idealistic world, this sounds great. But when patients look at perio as "ordinary plaque that becomes mineralized" they tell themselves, "It is ordinary and I really want that new car, and it doesn't hurt, and my dad didn't come into the dentist every year and he didn't get dentures until his 50's and I am in my 40's so I will worry about it when I am 50." People are stupid, and when you allow them a way out, they will take it. If you give the person any reason to not get work done, they won't.
Example:
Patient comes in with large carious lesion on #3. You tell them that if we crown it today, they can avoid future problems (root canal, extraction, etc). The patient says, "Oh, well this has been a tight month, can we put it off for a couple of months?" You tell them you really shouldn't, these caries can travel fast, in a couple of months it could very easily be a root canal, blah blah blah." The patient then looks at you and says "oh, so your saying I can wait a couple of months. Thanks doc, I'll see you at my next hygiene appt in 6 months."
People are stupid and don't understand why they need the work. When you present a treatment plan, they are not looking to better themselves, they are looking to save a buck. And if you allow them to do that by not treating dentistry with the respect it deserves, you are doing a disserve to your patient.
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Also, I work in an office that the solo doc did over 1.5 million on 4 days last year. He treats the work with respect and his patients respect what he does. When he presents big treatment plans in a respectful way, he doesn't get blank stares back at him. He gets patients that are beginning to understand that they have a disease in their mouth that is hurting them and that they should fix it. We spent 8+ years going through a science background to obtain the knowledge we have. Don't expect your patients to understand it in a 10 minute consult.
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No one has ever said to reduce dentistry to a business only. DO no harm, maintain ethical judgement, and be honest to you patients. However, the whole point of running a business (atleast for most non self-righteous entrepreneurs) is to INCREASE PROFITS. Want to lower your overhead, most consultants will say the first thing to do is evaluate you fees and likely raise them. If you think about it, if you lose some patients to your fees, but still maintain the same production levels, you are doing less dentistry. This means more time with each patient, better quality, and better relationships. The "MILL" type of practice (low fees, lotsa patients) is not what I would want to do for the rest of my life. Watch out for those patients shopping for fees, most the time they are trying to find a way to take advantage of your hard work. DISCLAIMER-(this is only a personal opinion from a dentist early in his careeer)
I'm just a n00b, but isn't there a point at which a dentist's work becomes fraudulent?
The examples I'm thinking of involve price gouging (only dentist within 200 miles so you charge double what you could normally expect), and empty promises or deceptions ("Pay an extra $X for this space-age material and you will never have another cavity for the rest of your life!"). What about a dentist who encourages patients to replace their amalgam fillings because the mercury is slowly causing them to die?
The examples I'm thinking of involve price gouging (only dentist within 200 miles so you charge double what you could normally expect), and empty promises or deceptions ("Pay an extra $X for this space-age material and you will never have another cavity for the rest of your life!"). What about a dentist who encourages patients to replace their amalgam fillings because the mercury is slowly causing them to die?
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Once again , the point is completely missed. No one is saying to make false claims and/or promises, or mislead a patient(malpractice). If you are the only dentist within 200 miles, you still have the right to charge what you want for your services, as does the patient have the right to drive 200 miles to another dentist. The mercury thing is hogwash. I have not had one patient come in and ask to have their alloys removed because of potential mercury poisoning. I have had dozens come in and asked to have them removed because they are UGLY!! "Want" dentistry is such a beautiful thing. By the way, I charge $950/PFM or jacket crown, $175-$250/resin depending on the surfaces. I have not had one patient( and there have been a few) who new that they could go to other practices in my area and get a crown done for $750 leave because my fee was higher. We are the only practice in the area that is all digital, utilizes lasers, and a spa atmosphere. Bells and whistles help sell and keep patients(patients recoginize practices that keep up with technology). Of course we provide the best clinical dentistry in the area as well IMHO.
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Dentistry is a bussiness and the goal is to make money. You as the owner can charge whatever you wish whether it is a "Newly Dental Grad Special 10 dollars occlusal filling" or a 1000 dollars "Specialist Special". However, there are two things that you should consider. One is the "costumary fee" that the insurance looks at. I am quite sure that if I submit a 10 grand denture to my insurance for pre-approval , it will be rejected unless there is something in that set that can't be achieved with a 3K dentures. The second is living with your concience with the fee you charge. If I charge 10K with a set of dentures by doing the same technique to my friend across town and justify that it is OK since I am a specialist, I can tell you that it will bother me. I surely WILL charge more but I will not cross the line where it becomes fraudulent, ie. price gouging/taking advantage of patient's naieveness.
The other thing I want to comment is that if the fee is high or the amount it requires to complete a case is long, that does not mean that the patient will accept the proposed treatment plan. People who percieve that since the treatment time is long and cost a bit that the deal has to be good are people who got shafted by greedy dentists. People accept the TP plan or reject it based on their financial status and the LOGIC of the proposed plan if they have any adequate dental IQ in them. If you want a patient to accept a 10K TP, you need to sit down and discuss with them at length on why this TP is appropriate for them. A properly informed patient is a good patient that keeps you out of court. Just by telling them that this plan is complex , will cost 10 K and it will take 6 months to do most likely will have it rejected by the patient. As a former prosthodontic resident who had presented full mouth reconstruction TPs to patients, I can tell you that it is not the cost of the proposal that got me the deal but the time that I was willing to discuss their oral health with them. DP
The other thing I want to comment is that if the fee is high or the amount it requires to complete a case is long, that does not mean that the patient will accept the proposed treatment plan. People who percieve that since the treatment time is long and cost a bit that the deal has to be good are people who got shafted by greedy dentists. People accept the TP plan or reject it based on their financial status and the LOGIC of the proposed plan if they have any adequate dental IQ in them. If you want a patient to accept a 10K TP, you need to sit down and discuss with them at length on why this TP is appropriate for them. A properly informed patient is a good patient that keeps you out of court. Just by telling them that this plan is complex , will cost 10 K and it will take 6 months to do most likely will have it rejected by the patient. As a former prosthodontic resident who had presented full mouth reconstruction TPs to patients, I can tell you that it is not the cost of the proposal that got me the deal but the time that I was willing to discuss their oral health with them. DP
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From day one out of dental school, I have refused to let insurance dictate what treatment plan or what I charge (that is of course unless you are a provider). Often teeth can be beautifully restored with three and four surface onlays, and insurance will reject to a 4 surface alloy---yuck!!!. If a patient has metlife, the "customary fee" for a PFM is $640. Lets see, my lab bill was $145, thats just my lab bill. If you start breaking down the costs involved for this patient do you think the return was worth it? I have not broken down costs to this level, but I really don't think that $640 (dictated by the insurance company) is customary. Dr. Phan, Im sure you are a great clinician, do you really want to retire at 83? ---
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It's becoming very clear that you and I simply have dramatically different ideas of what doctor-patient communication should be. I wish you the best with your practice philosophy, but you can't convince me that the best approach to case acceptance is looking at patients like they're idiots who need to be bludgeoned and/or tricked into making treatment decisions.
If you routinely can't explain in ten minutes why one particular tooth needs a crown, the problem isn't that you have stupid patients.
That's one of the most common conversations you'll have with patients, and if you'll forgive me for saying so, it's a pretty easy one.- Joined
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If you routinely can't explain in ten minutes why one particular tooth needs a crown, the problem isn't that you have stupid patients.
Who said that was hard? I said that it if you dumb down dentistry, the patients will dumb it down as well, and not treat it with the respect it deserves. Then, when you drop a 5K treatment plan on them (not because you are unethical, but because the patient doesn't take care of their teeth. It is not your fault they are full of decay), they will be more likely to question the cost, because of how you treat dentistry. You want to get paid well, treat it like a medical profession. You want to fight through treatment plans, and only end up doing 1/4 of the needed work, dumb down your conversation.
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From day one out of dental school, I have refused to let insurance dictate what treatment plan or what I charge (that is of course unless you are a provider). Often teeth can be beautifully restored with three and four surface onlays, and insurance will reject to a 4 surface alloy---yuck!!!. If a patient has metlife, the "customary fee" for a PFM is $640. Lets see, my lab bill was $145, thats just my lab bill. If you start breaking down the costs involved for this patient do you think the return was worth it? I have not broken down costs to this level, but I really don't think that $640 (dictated by the insurance company) is customary. Dr. Phan, Im sure you are a great clinician, do you really want to retire at 83? ---
Iawtp. Insurance companies are around to make money, not to help people. They are a rip off for the patient and the doctor. Also, the less you spend on insurance, the less you will get back. Just because the insurance co. says a PFM is $640, does not mean that is what they are worth. That just means the insurance co. has found enough desperate dentists to agree to that price (and that is the lowest price they can get from the highest amount of doctors). That is all the $640 means.
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Um, you did.
Like I said, though, I don't think going back and forth on this is going to accomplish much. If that's how you want to run your practice & treat your patients, I hope it works out well for you.
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Wow Dr. Jeff. You are paced to do 1.8 million for the year! Thats quite an impressive practice. Are you solo? With what the ongoing opinion around here about overhead (50-60%), you are grossing like $810,000 for 2007! I don't see how you have time to post around here
Partnership with 1 other doc, so it's not all mine
Last month was about 15% above an average month (you know, the first of the year rush where people had been delaying the late year post endo crowns to appease their insurance issues )Ocean, from what you've posted, my fees and your fees are very similiar (+/- 5% on everyone I've seen), and its done in a non "spa", tech savy good 'ol fashioned small, rural town family dental practice where we do alot of "bread and butter" restorative, endo and fixed. Neither my partner nor I work more than 30 hours a week, no weekends or nights, and we have between 2 and 4 hygenists in the office depending on if its a 1 or 2 DMD day (100 hours a week of hygiene scheduled). We just treat our patients as we'd want to be treated ourselves and just give them straight talk about what we see in their mouths and what we think should be done. We probably do 15 full/full denture cases for every 1 veneer case we do. Just small town dentistry
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You make that sound demeaning.
Let me make my point clearer and Johns as we talked about it at school today.
Educating the patients is the point. Educating them like they are 5 will dumb down your treatment plan and they may not be as likely to accept it.
"Your teeth are dirty and it's going to be 50/ arch"
vs.
ordinary plaque that becomes mineralized and starts damaging the bones & ligaments that hold your teeth firmly in place and it will cost 200/arch.
The second one sounds more technical, gives the profession more respect and for the patient sounds better when they pull out the check book.
If you are worth 3 million as a dentist and want to set fees that you are worth then you don't say things like I am going to scrape off slime with a rake and charge you 200/ arch. You sit down with them, give them professional advice, using financial terms they respect and are more willing to pay for. My point wasn't to use those words to squeeze another 1000 bucks from them, but to use words like that so you sound as much as you are worth.
Unfortunately I was tired in my earlier post and didn't quite explain it as well as I should have. I hope that makes sense.
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I've found that both approaches of presenting a tx plan have their place. So much of it is getting a quick read of your patient and targeting your explanation to them. Not to sound crude, but frankly some patients just won't/can't respond/comprehend the "$200/arch" explanation and its not often the $$ issue, but way to commonly a comprehension/intelligence issue. Those folks need the "$50/arch" presentation style. Others, if you give them the "$50/arch" presentation they'll think you got you're degree by sending in some box tops from your frosted flakes and not respond to you.
Matching your patient education style to them, is very important, if you give the $200/arch talk to someone who can only handle the $50/arch talk, then your not doing that $50 of tx and someone else will. You basically can't have a standard patient education/tx presentation style since people very so much. The ability to read people and adapt how you educate them about their dental issues is often what will allow you to convert a very high percentage of consults into return visits for the actual treatment
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I've found that both approaches of presenting a tx plan have their place. So much of it is getting a quick read of your patient and targeting your explanation to them. Not to sound crude, but frankly some patients just won't/can't respond/comprehend the "$200/arch" explanation and its not often the $$ issue, but way to commonly a comprehension/intelligence issue. Those folks need the "$50/arch" presentation style. Others, if you give them the "$50/arch" presentation they'll think you got you're degree by sending in some box tops from your frosted flakes and not respond to you.
Matching your patient education style to them, is very important, if you give the $200/arch talk to someone who can only handle the $50/arch talk, then your not doing that $50 of tx and someone else will. You basically can't have a standard patient education/tx presentation style since people very so much. The ability to read people and adapt how you educate them about their dental issues is often what will allow you to convert a very high percentage of consults into return visits for the actual treatment
This is good real world advice. Its not about being fake, or misleading, but everyone is different. There is not one way to sell a treatment plan. When you first meet a patient, you need to figure out the socioeconomic level, educational level, and what he or she really is there for. I have a particular staff member interview every new patient before I meet them. Often a patient is intimidated when they talk to the "doctor", and if you let them speak with a down to earth "normal person" you can get alot of info before you formally meet them. My advice, learn everything you know about: golf, nascar, home decor, building a deck, dogs, baseball, west virginia, alaska, football, etc....etc.....etc... You never know who you are going to meet, and what their interests are. You can be an average/ below average clinician(Im not speaking for myself---lol
), and be very very successful if you know how to INTERACT (without patronising or being fake) with your patients.
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This is good real world advice. Its not about being fake, or misleading, but everyone is different. There is not one way to sell a treatment plan. When you first meet a patient, you need to figure out the socioeconomic level, educational level, and what he or she really is there for. I have a particular staff member interview every new patient before I meet them. Often a patient is intimidated when they talk to the "doctor", and if you let them speak with a down to earth "normal person" you can get alot of info before you formally meet them. My advice, learn everything you know about: golf, nascar, home decor, building a deck, dogs, baseball, west virginia, alaska, football, etc....etc.....etc... You never know who you are going to meet, and what their interests are. You can be an average/ below average clinician(Im not speaking for myself---lol
I couldn't agree more! Being up on local/current events/sporting events/entertainment/music, etc, etc, etc is an invaluable. I make it a point to start each day I'm in the office with getting there atleast 30 min before my 1st patient. I'll spend those 30 minutes, reading USA Today (current events/sports/business trends/entertainment news, etc), then my local paper (always have to check and see if any patients died/got arrested
) and listening to the local talk radio station (before I switch the receiver over to XM for patient treatment time). Being able to break the ice and converse with your patients from just about anything from Sesame Street to the Daytona 500 to The Oscars to prom season is an inavluable (although I do try to avoid the hot bed issues of religion and politics the vast majority of the time unless I REALLY know that patient very well on an out of the office level).I will proudly admit that I try my hardest to be about as far from the stereotypical image of a dentist (borring, white shirt + tie + lab coat, very technical talker, pain inflictor,etc) and its does make a difference with patients. The other biggie, and this can be tough as a practice grows and you get ALOT of patients, is trying to be able to greet your patients on a first name basis if you see them in the grocery store, etc, that makes a HUGE impression if you can pull it off, one that a patient remembers way more than the pinch of an injection, or that piece of the HUGE MIFL on #7 that chipped off
This is what I keep working on the hardest, name recognition. The really wierd thing is that often if I can't remember a patients name if I see them in the grocery store, I'll remember what operatory I saw them in, what tooth I worked on, and what I and they were wearing that day , but no clue as to what their name is
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I promise I'm not trying to sound demeaning. Sometimes, agreeing to disagree is all you can do, and I think your classmate and I are at that point.
I appreciate you saying so, since if you check backward in the thread you'll see that's a description I suggested for educating perio patients.
You and Jeff and OceanDMD are all absolutely right, and I agree with you. You have to tailor your patient education techniques to match the patient's dental IQ. Some patients are able to appreciate a more detailed explanation of the causes & effects of a given problem, but I'm not kidding when I say you'll also have plenty of patients who don't even know what plaque is or why they should care two whits about it.
With those folks, you have to start at the very bottom and slowly work your way up.I think I've been on the same page as you--or at least pretty close--all along. Like I said before, though, your classmate and I are on different worlds, and to be honest, I'm not too enthused to arguing about patient management with someone who's still two years from seeing his own patients. I'm sure his boss makes it look easy, but watching it is a far cry from doing it.
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You say you aren't trying to be demeaning and then you write this. Also, you may have done more procedures than me, but I guarantee I have seen/assisted more implants placed than you have done procedures (and that is just one procedure, I have probably seen more bone grafts done than procedures you have performed on patients as well). So, even though I don't hold the drill (yet), I am way, way, way, WAY more experienced in dentistry than 90% of you guys (most likely you included as well).
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You are kidding right? You might want to tone down your arrogance. Assisting procedures is like watching professional golf and thinking you can run out there and throw out a 3 under round. If you think assisting is experience, you have alot to learn. You may very likely become a talented clinician, your arrogance and "know it all" attitude will not only affect how your patients perceive you, but also your staff. I'm guessing your goal is to specialize.
You think implant placement is some glorified big deal treatment? I've stated on another thread, the placement is COOKIE CUTTER. The surgical kits are straight forward. I am a general dentist and place them myself on many occassions. You may have watched the surgery, did you help treatment plan and assess the bone availability, augment bone, avoid sinuses/IA canals?
Im sure you could probably pick up a handpiece and produce like Dr. Jeff your first month right, I mean you have seen/assisted thousands of procedures right? Open your mind. I spent one 1 1/2 years assisting a general dentist/endodontist/OMFS before dental school as well. Don't ever think you know more than you know.
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There we go. I think this just about says it all.
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Nope, I love General Dentistry.
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. I have done all of that. Don't assume you know where I am coming from and what I have or have not done.
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Sorry, but I'm calling BS.
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By you assuming that you know me, and you know my experience in dentistry shows your ignorance and your arrogance in this conversation. You don't know me and what I do/did in dentistry. You don't know my experience and what procedures, treatment planning, etc, etc, etc that I have and have not done. You don't know how long I have been doing this and in what capacity my experiece entails. You jump to conclusions about about me and my experience and you are wrong on every account.
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No, I couldn't go out and produce like him in my first month. That statement is ridiculous. BUT, I do have 2 offers already to work in 2 different offices. One is for $250,000, and the other for $300,000. So, obviously the doctors who know me and my experience know that I have the potential, ability, smarts, etc to do good things. So, again, until you know me and where I come from, don't jump to conclusions about me. I am different than most of you guys and I have more experience than most of you guys.
J
jackbauer!
Play nice guys. Closing.
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Again, read my previous two posts. You don't know me and what I have done. Just because you haven't done these things doesn't mean nobody else has.
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Nice try.
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I know that you know way way way way (is that enough ways yet?) more than 90% of the guys that post here on this website. Do you really think that you can say anything to me or anyone else that justifies a comment like that? I'll tell you what, if you take it back now, maybe you can maintain some credibility with your posted comments, otherwise dont accuse anyone of ignorance until you really read what you have had to say about "90%" of everyone else here.
Im really surprised in your response, I thought maybe you were drunk or something when you posted this, but, apparently your true colors are out.
Then again, what do I know, I haven't completed as many procedures as you have assisted.
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I'd really like to know who has let you perform an osteotomy on a patient before any formal training. Let it go pal, you are continuing to dig your arrogance/*****ic hole.
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Actually, after further review, you & jb are probably right. I think it's time to put this one to bed.When it's an ADMIN that's in a catfight it stays open. but that was cute.
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