Despite ACEP warnings of EM oversupply, looks like HCA is trying to start a program in SoCal

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UreterIHardlyKnowHer

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:1poop::1poop::1poop:

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I am preparing my wife for a career change right now. She laughs when I tell her that I want to teach high school science.
 
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:1poop::1poop::1poop:

Thousand Oaks isn't even the beginning.

These are ACGME approved, all planning to take residents within the next year;
Northeast Georgia will be having 12 residents
Mullica Hill NJ
St Lukes PA opened another site
Tower Health PA opened another site
Baylor Dallas TX
Memorial Health FL
Thousand Oaks CA

Places in talks/hired PDs
HCA Asheville NC
Dover DE
El Paso (Teamhealth and HCA)
Knoxville (Teamhealth)
Who knows how many more

And not a single word from ACEP.
 
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You think HCA will use the newly trained residents to replace the docs who are training them?
 
You think HCA will use the newly trained residents to replace the docs who are training them?

Anecdotally someone just posted this exact scenario actually happening with a cmg letting a bunch of docs go and hiring new grads. Was searching for the post but couldn't find it anymore. I believe it was Apollo.
 
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I am preparing my wife for a career change right now. She laughs when I tell her that I want to teach high school science.
I don't know if school teachers in the US have this, but in canada they get a really nice pension plan. Even their pay can go upto 80k after a few years on the job.
 
Definitely was not Apollo.
Maybe not, probably TeamHealth actually.

But besides the point. They're all just different shades of melena.

I already predicted this like 2-3 years ago. Things will happen fast. Only takes a couple hospitals under CMC control to do it, then it'll be an avalanche effect. It'll start in desirable areas where they can fill with no problem. They already achieved the first goal step of oversupply. Next up, cutting the boomers who sold the specialty out anyway. Ironic.
 
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I don't know if school teachers in the US have this, but in canada they get a really nice pension plan. Even their pay can go upto 80k after a few years on the job.
State dependent I believe, I know most state employees used to be on state pension plans but not sure how universal that is anymore.

Here in SC they have the option of pension v. 401k with match. You can hit 80k but it requires a PhD and 20+ years on the job.
 
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Maybe not, probably TeamHealth actually.

But besides the point. They're all just different shades of melena.

I already predicted this like 2-3 years ago. Things will happen fast. Only takes a couple hospitals under CMC control to do it, then it'll be an avalanche effect. It'll start in desirable areas where they can fill with no problem. They already achieved the first goal step of oversupply. Next up, cutting the boomers who sold the specialty out anyway. Ironic.
Yet they're not. Apollo is physician owned and not owned by a private equity firm.
 
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Yet they're not. Apollo is physician owned and not owned by a private equity firm.
A multi specialty group that crosses state lines and has 100s of contracts?

You can call it whatever you want and think you're safe or that it's better than the other CMCs, but time will tell. Soon.
 
A multi specialty group that crosses state lines and has 100s of contracts?

You can call it whatever you want and think you're safe or that it's better than the other CMCs, but time will tell. Soon.
Doesn't matter how you spin it. Are we owned by a private equity firm? No. Are we owned by physicians? Yes. We have a true stock ownership and not a farce ownership like some CMG's. Having hundreds of contracts in multiple specialties doesn't change the fact of our ownership.
 
Yet they're not. Apollo is physician owned and not owned by a private equity firm.

It does/t matter I know a lot of Physicans who have been screwed over and won't work for them. The owners still want as much money as possible which means the that you get treated the same as a CMG.

Also the true stock ownership is not true ownership like a normal investor. I've know docs who got calls for pressure to sell their shares so Apollo could offer those shares for another business transaction.
 
It does/t matter I know a lot of Physicans who have been screwed over and won't work for them. The owners still want as much money as possible which means the that you get treated the same as a CMG.

Also the true stock ownership is not true ownership like a normal investor. I've know docs who got calls for pressure to sell their shares so Apollo could offer those shares for another business transaction.
I would like to talk to those docs. Can you PM me with their names? I've never known of Apollo doing that ever, and as someone who is about to purchase more stock, I would be interested to talk to them about it as it would likely change my desire to purchase more if they were pressured to sell.
 
Doesn't matter how you spin it. Are we owned by a private equity firm? No. Are we owned by physicians? Yes. We have a true stock ownership and not a farce ownership like some CMG's. Having hundreds of contracts in multiple specialties doesn't change the fact of our ownership.

Is it like the old USACS scam where you had "stock" but essentially it didn't follow you when you left the company, and you couldn't cash it out.
 
Is it like the old USACS scam where you had "stock" but essentially it didn't follow you when you left the company, and you couldn't cash it out.
Wait. What?! Couldn't cash it out?
 
You think HCA will use the newly trained residents to replace the docs who are training them?
They also make BS fellowships (Admin, US, Sims, ect) to keep people there longer and use them as attendings instead of hiring more. Pretty soon just EDs with a PD, APD, 4 core faculty then fellows leading the ED. Think of all the savings patients will incur with those CEO bonuses. Then they can cut Envision/TH and run solo operations.
 
What's sad is that med students will flock here no questions asked. The location is ideal. Same with Baylor
 
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Well you could cash it out, but only when you quit. If you were fired for cause it was forfeit. They would not allow you to take the lump sump either, and forced you to take in monthly increments spread out over a year.

No. I know someone who left Apollo and still owns stock. He still gets K-1 distributions.
An ER doc just left my multispecialty group, 100% physician owned, due to the end of a hospital-contract. We're buying his shares back for $400,000. He paid a tiny fracture of that for the shares, with many given at a 99% discount and owned a small minority of outstanding shares. The highest payout in our history was $600,000, which was a quite a few years ago, to an ER doc. Share value has gone up a lot since then. I know of at least one doc (not EM) sitting on about $1,000,000 in share value. He's been with the company for more than 20 years.

100% doctor owned, and doctor run (with the help of a couple non-owner business people).
 
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HCA will do what's best for HCA
Why don’t ER docs hedge their employment by buying HCA stock?

HCA stock was $81.83 per share April 2020, it’s now at $200.27 today.

that’s 146% returns in 1 year. If you had a nest egg of 1 mil and threw it in there last April, you’d now have $2.46 million. Not including their dividend either
 
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Why don’t ER docs hedge their employment by buying HCA stock?
Some might. It's an individual decision. I know many HCA nurses do, but their situation is different. Since HCAs nurses are employed directly by HCA, I've been told they can buy and get matching HCA stock as part of their retirement plan. Physicians on the other hand, HCA doesn't directly employ for the most part, instead choosing to outsource that to CMG staffing groups (someone correct me if I'm wrong on this). They could still buy stock on their own, but wouldn't have any company match available. They might with their CMG employer, but not likely with HCA, unless directly employed.
 
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HCA stock is going to be like any other. Sure, it had a profitable run, but it will carry volatility like any other stock. I don't see why I would chose HCA over an index fund.

Now, if we as physicians made a concentrated nation wide effort to buy out the majority of HCA shares and effectively become majority owners,...I'd be very open to that.
 
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Maybe not, probably TeamHealth actually.

But besides the point. They're all just different shades of melena.

I already predicted this like 2-3 years ago. Things will happen fast. Only takes a couple hospitals under CMC control to do it, then it'll be an avalanche effect. It'll start in desirable areas where they can fill with no problem. They already achieved the first goal step of oversupply. Next up, cutting the boomers who sold the specialty out anyway. Ironic.
I’ve seen this sentiment a fair bit lately. You know the “boomers” that sold us out are gone and counting their millions. The rest of us are all in the same boat.
 
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How can we expect this oversupply of new young docs to affect the share value of Apollo, USACS, etc by 2030?

On the one hand, any of these companies that are left by then, will have grown really really big. OTOH, if prices are driven by what new grads can afford to buy in (or pay taxes on for USACS at least), we expect that new grads will have higher debt and more job competition by then and so in reality may not be able to afford to Ponzi me out of the system?

I'm interested because I'm a new USACS stock owner. Not a fully voluntary owner, but I am beginning to drink the USACS Kool-Aid a bit, especially since they're letting us keep our S-corps now and thus essentially preserving our old hourly... for now! They also really do seem to do less scummy things than TH/HCA. Eg, no 1-hour sepsis and famously no balance billing. And I'd get K-1 capital gains taxation on the stock I'm forced to buy, so could be part of a nice little bridge to FIRE in 5--10 years while my SEPP or Roth ladder is cooking.
 
How can we expect this oversupply of new young docs to affect the share value of Apollo, USACS, etc by 2030?

On the one hand, any of these companies that are left by then, will have grown really really big. OTOH, if prices are driven by what new grads can afford to buy in (or pay taxes on for USACS at least), we expect that new grads will have higher debt and more job competition by then and so in reality may not be able to afford to Ponzi me out of the system?

I'm interested because I'm a new USACS stock owner. Not a fully voluntary owner, but I am beginning to drink the USACS Kool-Aid a bit, especially since they're letting us keep our S-corps now and thus essentially preserving our old hourly... for now! They also really do seem to do less scummy things than TH/HCA. Eg, no 1-hour sepsis and famously no balance billing. And I'd get K-1 capital gains taxation on the stock I'm forced to buy, so could be part of a nice little bridge to FIRE in 5--10 years while my SEPP or Roth ladder is cooking.

I wouldn’t expect it to impact the value of cmgs much, and it may improve their stock prices, as they are undercutting labor costs.

I also wouldn’t expect usacs to provide any lube or rubbers, so I would bring some of your own.
 
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I wouldn’t expect it to impact the value of cmgs much, and it may improve their stock prices, as they are undercutting labor costs.

I also wouldn’t expect usacs to provide any lube or rubbers, so I would bring some of your own.
Haha. TH/HCA couldn't afford any lube for us either.

Unfortunately it's always a question of which of the options actually available to us is the best. I had no illusions when I went into medicine I was anything other than a rather highly-paid cog in the machine. And so I am basically OK with being used by capital, because what choice do any of us really have? The natural state of humanity appears to be hierarchy and feudalism; modernity was maybe just a brief interlude. As long as my eyes are open and especially while I'm still making $200/h and so have a chance at doing more of my own thing in the future, go ahead and use me.

The alternative would be to sell my house and move just to be utilized by some other capitalists. And I like where I live.
 
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