Did anyone here -really- choose osteopathy?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Get help with your application

Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
why most of us chose DO over (Carib) MD, rather than whether or not we "really" chose DO...
There's a clear answer here involving the superior quality and match chances for DO > Carib. SDN tends to deny a similar superior relationship of MD > DO, and OP is asking for the reasons why that claim is wrong (real reasons people would go for DO when they had good MD options).
 
I think that for at least some of us, we just don't accept the received SDN dogma that MD is the default and DO is an alternative. As long as that is the frame of the question, then it is going to artificially limit the scope of the conversation. DOs and MDs are physicians. I want to be a physician. I could ask why I should prefer MD over DO, when both get where I want to go.

One path is supposed to be easier to get onto, but require a little extra excellence once on the path.
The other is presumably harder to access initially, but have less resistance along the way. (While still requiring excellence to access anything considered highly desirable. Nothing is handed to anyone, no matter their degree.)

When the nearby DO school churns out so many exceptional doctors, is the cheapest option available to me by about $20k/annum tuiton, and $30k/annum over all COA, and has a didactic structure that appeals to me... why would I ever choose MD over that? Oh, and I get a little extra instruction in some musculoskeletal manipulation techniques which I may or may not find useful in practice. Bonus.
 
I think that for at least some of us, we just don't accept the received SDN dogma that MD is the default and DO is an alternative. As long as that is the frame of the question, then it is going to artificially limit the scope of the conversation. DOs and MDs are physicians. I want to be a physician. I could ask why I should prefer MD over DO, when both get where I want to go.

One path is supposed to be easier to get onto, but require a little extra excellence once on the path.
The other is presumably harder to access initially, but have less resistance along the way. (While still requiring excellence to access anything considered highly desirable. Nothing is handed to anyone, no matter their degree.)

When the nearby DO school churns out so many exceptional doctors, is the cheapest option available to me by about $20k/annum tuiton, and $30k/annum over all COA, and has a didactic structure that appeals to me... why would I ever choose MD over that? Oh, and I get a little extra instruction in some musculoskeletal manipulation techniques which I may or may not find useful in practice. Bonus.
Iirc, one big reason to prefer MD is that the most competitive residencies often outright refuse to consider DO candidates, no matter how excellent they were in DO school
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Iirc, one big reason to prefer MD is that the most competitive residencies often outright refuse to consider DO candidates, no matter how excellent they were in DO school

Yeah, I hear a lot of that. Except that I know a lot of DOs who are boarded attendings in those fields. They trained somewhere. And they taught MDs at the major academic medical center that I worked at for years.

Whoever may have barred them, it didn't keep them from getting where they wanted to go.
 
Yeah, I hear a lot of that. Except that I know a lot of DOs who are boarded attendings in those fields. They trained somewhere. And they taught MDs at the major academic medical center that I worked at for years.

Whoever may have barred them, it didn't keep them from getting where they wanted to go.
Perhaps a few decades ago there was not such a divide between MD and DO? I know MD admissions certainly weren't what they are today.

Sure it's still possible to get into the most competitive specialties, but it's possible to do that as an international too. If we're using drastically reduced opportunity/chances as a marker for what is superior to what, and that's how we say DO > International, it very much appears that MD > DO too.

And financial reasons is a weak argument, because there are free high-quality MD options for excellent candidates. If you start saying cheaper is a reason for DO, you've really just switched the comparison of merit from "able to get into MD but still go DO" to "able to get good financial package at MD but still go with good financial package at DO".
 
Perhaps a few decades ago there was not such a divide between MD and DO? I know MD admissions certainly weren't what they are today.

Lol. If anything the trend is the opposite. Anti-DO bias used to be a lot stronger, and many programs that used to bar DOs have come around. A lot of the lingering SDN anti-DO bias is historical in origin, not based on an informed assessment of the present and future trends.

I won't argue with you about the importance of financial matters. The equations are different for each individual, and for me, COA is a factor. My point is, if a DO school that suits me in every way also has the lowest COA of the schools that I considered, then the question for me would become one of "Would anyone in my situation really choose MD? Why?!?!?!" Please don't miss my deeper point about the general way the question is framed while trying to rebut my specific personal considerations.
 
I choose to only apply DO for the omm componant and specifically because I knew the school I wanted to go to was right down the street from my undergrad, had great professors, great students, and the atmosphere fit my personality and learning style ( this is a major reason for choosing my DO school ). I won't try to act like I could of gone to MD schools if I wanted to because I never applied and will therefore, never really know but, I can say my application was pretty strong for a majority of MD schools.
 
There's a clear answer here involving the superior quality and match chances for DO > Carib. SDN tends to deny a similar superior relationship of MD > DO, and OP is asking for the reasons why that claim is wrong (real reasons people would go for DO when they had good MD options).

I actually wrote a tiny bit above that part you quoted, in terms of residency options, US MD > DO > International MD. My point was that OP might as well be asking about the other relationship, because that too is choosing one degree (DO) over another (MD), and there are people who ignore the mantra and end up choosing Carib MD over DO.

That claim that the majority of SDN ignores the difference between US MD and DO in terms of residency placement is a fallacy usually perpetuated by those who want an excuse to always point out how DO match lists are inferior to US MD ones. Everyone I know and virtually every DO student on this forum recognizes the fact that DO students don't match into ACGME programs as well as US MD students. What is often disputed is a matter of the degree of and reason for that difference.
 
When I give one of my major reasons for wanting DO rather than MD here on SDN, it turns into a dogpile of people telling me that I don't know what I am talking about. But, here it goes:

I have worked with many DO surgeons and anesthesiologists. They were, to a person, exceptionally warm, kind, and compassionate. They all had exquisite bedside manner and great interpersonal skills when interacting with patients, families, nurses, and other members of the healthcare team. I can't recall a time that I saw any of these doctors behave rudely in the OR, or shout/whine/cry/stamp their feet in order to get what they wanted. Not once. They all play well with others. I'd say that these doctors made up about 15-20% of the physicians with whom I interacted in the OR.

The MD surgeons and anesthesiologists... well, many of them were also nice people to work with and around. But a few weren't. Quite a few actually. Every problem that I've ever had with a surgeon throwing an actual tantrum, complete with jumping up and down and yelling, when they couldn't have a third room because they overbooked their two and they were in danger of being late to their social engagement.... Every thrown instrument.... Every case cancelled for a BS reason because the anesthesiologist wanted to get home before traffic got bad... Every act of profound selfishness, entitlement, and passive-aggression that I've witnessed in the OR has involved an MD.

Now, bear with me...

I'm not sure about cause and effect, nor am I saying that there aren't any raving jerk DOs out there. There may be some selection bias... maybe anti-DO sentiment meant that the DOs who were hired to work there were the absolute cream of the osteopathic crop. Nor do I think that all MDs are jerks. The overwhelming majority are not. But I'd say that as many as 10-15% of them were insufferable. They believed themselves better than everyone else, even their physician colleagues. (One of the worst and most conceited would actually tell patient's families that he was the best surgeon, of any kind, in the hospital. Like, with a straight face and all seriousness.)

I think that these folks are not entirely to blame. They worked really hard to get where they are. Unfortunately, they all seem to suffer from the Just World Fallacy. They believe that because they have achieved so much, they must deserve it all. That anyone who had made the same decisions that they did and put in the same amount of effort, would have accomplished the same thing, and so that anyone who isn't in their shoes must be some kind of screw up. One surgeon who is particularly obnoxious to work with was talking semi-pleasantly with me once. He was trying to figure out why I had once been homeless and staying in shelters for a few months during college. He assumed it had to have been the result of poor judgment somewhere along the line, since in his world, it just wasn't possible that someone who was clearly intelligent could run up against insurmountable problems. He literally couldn't imagine what it would be like to not have access to all the resources he has had to call upon. He often harshly judges patients and families for their misfortunes. It is like he is blind to the concept that everyone didn't get the same start in life that he did.

Anyhow. I don't know what it is that made the DOs less likely to be like that. Maybe it is something to do with the osteopathic medical schools, and the kinds of students they select, or the way that they teach, or... I really don't know. Maybe it is that MD schools are more likely to admit a few people who have never had to face real adversity and so never had the opportunity to develop the compassion it teaches. Maybe the people with the worst attitudes who think the most of themselves self-select out of applying DO because they would never lower themselves by accepting anything less than an MD. (I know a couple of people who headed to the Caribbean with exactly those words coming from their lips.)

So, I'm not saying that all MDs are jerks. And I don't really think that all DOs are enlightened superbeings. Just, these are trends that I have personally witnessed. I am not worried that an MD school will make me a jerk, or hoping that a DO school can help me overcome personality flaws. Rather, when I consider the people that I want to see in the seats beside me, with whom I want to form networks that will serve me for the rest of my career, I prefer the attitudes of the DOs that I've met.

Sorry to spend so many words on this, but it is one of my biggest reasons for choosing to apply only DO this cycle, and maybe DO plus MD next, if I hadn't been accepted. TL;DR -- I like the DOs I know and hope to be like them when I grow up.

This must be my lucky week. I have stumbled upon two "keepers" on SDN. This is one of them. Promethean, you take the words out of my mouth with the above but you do it so much better than I could have. Many of the situations you described above are ones that I have witnessed also. I never met a DO that I did not like. Honest! I am sure that there are some out there that I would not gravitate to but I am still searching! Thanks for posting the above!
 
just wanted to come by to say that i appreciate DO curriculum much more after learning some OMM. Having omm under my belt to provide immediate musculoskeletal treatment to friends/family/clinics is awesome. I'm not planning to go full time omm in the future (probably gonna do internal med and specialize), but it's great to have the ability to help people with msk issues. I think it will be wise for you to shadow some DO physicians that practice omm. it definitely helped me make my decision.

If you're worried about the idea of lacking prestige if you choose DO over MD (not that it's true), i think it's time to reflect on your motivation for choosing to join the medical profession... and if you find that 2 letters matters greatly, then only apply to MD schools. simple right? 😀

feel free to pm me if you have any questions
 
I have written this a few times on SDN when some posts get on their "high horse" of never thinking of going DO. I received my MBS at a MD school in May of this year. Some of my profs, admission doctors and clinicians were DO! Yes, DOs are teaching MDs in the classroom and vice versa. There is room for everyone! Matters not to me what initials are after my name.
 
I think people are misunderstanding the MD>DO>Carribean mentality.
It's more like MD>DO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Carribean
 
Oh man... I have met some DOs who were real dicks. There are good people and bad people in both fields. I have met more dickish MDs than DOs; but then again the MDs outnumber the DOs 10:1.

Agreed. The osteopathic field has its fair share of @$$hole physicians and gunner students, to be sure. But in general, I think the gunners tend to prefer MD over DO ("for the prestige"), and gunners are who grow up to @$$holes.
 
Oh man... I have met some DOs who were real dicks. There are good people and bad people in both fields. I have met more dickish MDs than DOs; but then again the MDs outnumber the DOs 10:1.
Maybe I should come out to St. Louis and you could introduce me to some DO dicks! lol Here in Pa, I am not having much luck! I know that they MUST exist................I will keep looking and I am sure in the next four years, I will find some!
 
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
Maybe I should come out to St. Louis and you could introduce me to some DO dicks! lol Here in Pa, I am not having much luck! I know that they MUST exist................I will keep looking and I am sure in the next four years, I will find some!

Hehe... there aren't any here, except me. But then again, I'm at an ACGME ivory tower in StL, so DOs are extremely scarce around here.