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Maybe he/she is just a realist. A little more aggressive than a sensitive person would care for but i like realists
Did I get into medical school for the wrong reasons?
Started by james201423
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What other pathways? Engineering: when one of my best friends who is a civil engineer stuck on a <60k/year job 7+ years out after graduation and spent over a year collecting unemployment during the economic downturn...
I know a graduate from MIT and her best offer was less than 75k/year... Yeah it's good offer for a 23 year old with no debt... I don't know about you, but I am not that smart to get into MIT engineering school...
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Engineer-II-Salary-Details-Miami-FL.aspx
They also say they are able to do the same thing doctors are with a smidge of education. Doesn't make it true.
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Arr u trolling him. He gave u his answer if u disagree there is no reason to start an argument.
It's life... If you spend 100k in a BS sociology degree because you think 'it's a calling', most people would say you are a fool...
Hahaha...pls dont associate what he says with me. I don't agree with the its a callling thing
I am not trolling him... A lot of these stuff he said do not make sense... You CAN NOT tell someone financial security should not be the main reason to pursue a career... This might not be a good reason for some, but it's a damn good reason to pursue a career... Should people spend 100k+ to get a degree in sociology because they think it's a calling?
If you don't like to work hard, then you won't like medicine. But you won't like anything else either. It has more to do with yourself than choice of career. I disagree with DermVisor as usual, it has nothing to do with passion for medicine. It has everything to do with work ethic. Some of the best residents I've worked with simply were hard workers, and not neccesarily all that passionate about their field (though interested in it).
Personally, I felt med school is not that grueling. I was very stressed the weeks leading up to my Step 1 exam but otherwise it doesn't seem much worse than alternative options like graduate engineering or graduate chemistry research.
Personally, I felt med school is not that grueling. I was very stressed the weeks leading up to my Step 1 exam but otherwise it doesn't seem much worse than alternative options like graduate engineering or graduate chemistry research.
Being a social worker it's more than a calling than MOST jobs out there... I really don't think people need 3.7 GPA and 31 MCAT to get into 'social working' school...
If he said that, It would be ok... But you are not gonna tell someone financial security should not be the MAIN reason to pursue a career...
I said shorter (and possibly cheaper) pathways to the same end -- PA or NP. I don't think Engineers can see patients, last time I remember.
Right, of course finances should be the main reason to pursue a career. Otherwise we should all just watch soap operas for a living.
You also think it's proven fact that Neurosurgeons are nicer than General Surgeons. You don't get to judge someone's "passion" as that is an inner trait that is hard for an observer to assess. Hard work is a given. While MS-1/MS-2 are hard, those years are not the hardest years in terms of medical school, and medicine in general.
If your main reason for pursing medical school, residency is financial security, it's a wrong reason. That financial security doesn't come till decades afterwards, long after you've completed medical school and residency. Until then, your net worth is in the negatives due to school debt, unless you come from a family who is affluent enough to pay your med school tuition and fees in cash, and there are.
Like PA/NP will have a better financial prospect in life than a Rad/Cardio/GI/Gas doc/ortho/Neurosurgeon/ophthal/ER/ Uro/ Psych! I think someone already debunked that stupid argument... I read that thread...
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Its probably very true but mot very pc. Unfortunately i hate when ppl say cliche things like"do what you enjoy and youll be successful" it doest make me very popular. What is dermvisers experience in medicine
Thanks for your input. I appreciate it!
So if I understand correctly, other reasons included (like the ones you describe as "not enough alone" to get an MD/DO), the most important reason one can have in getting an MD is unwillingness/inability (due to pride/passion/whathaveyou) of doing anything else/less?
That reassures me, because I feel that way. 👍
Try to learn what ROI and time investment is. PAs/NPs are in Cardiology, GI, Gas (CRNAs), Neurosurgery, Ophtho, ER, Urology, and Psych as well. You may have read the thread, but you obviously didn't understand it.
I don't know about you! I rather have a 200k job at 29 with 200k student debt than 80k job at 25 with 100k debt... To each its own!
Who said a Bachelors in Sociology is a calling?
Congrats. Realize your 200K of student debt at the end of med school will not be 200 K at the end of residency.
PA... 100k for 40 years = 3 millions
GI... 300k for 32 years = 9.2 millions
That PA would have to be Warren Buffet....
You said people should pursue a career because they know (or think) it's calling... In our opinion, why should someone pursue a career in sociology?
Do you feel there is less intrinsic worth in someone with a desire to work standard business hours and clock in and clock out each day than there is in someone who works 80 hours a week at all times of the day and night? Not trolling here, it's a sincere question.
You probably couldn't care less...
http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2012/0115-one-percent-occupations/index.html
I guess PA and NPs don't know how to invest... Spoiler alert: They are not talking about income... They are talking about households' wealth...
I guess PA and NPs don't know how to invest... Spoiler alert: They are not talking about income... They are talking about households' wealth...
I personally never bought into the "only go into medicine if your passionate about XYZ" thing or that "it's a calling." Personally, I'm not passionate about anything in medicine or patient care, per se. It's not a calling for me, I could happily do any number of other jobs. Instead I'm passionate about working hard, being the absolute best at what I do, being useful, and impacting other people in a positive way, etc... I think I could apply these passions to any field, even custodial work or trash collecting, and still find career satisfaction. I chose medicine because the positives outweighed the negatives more so than the majority of other career options available to me.
I think part of the problem with career advising in the millennial generation is that everyone has told us to go after what we're passionate about or interests us the most. The problem is that those passions and interests fade. IMO it's more satisfying to look at the practicality of our work, and find meaning that way rather than some fetish for bones/skin/the heart/eyes or feeling like you were born to hold a stethoscope etc...
I think part of the problem with career advising in the millennial generation is that everyone has told us to go after what we're passionate about or interests us the most. The problem is that those passions and interests fade. IMO it's more satisfying to look at the practicality of our work, and find meaning that way rather than some fetish for bones/skin/the heart/eyes or feeling like you were born to hold a stethoscope etc...
You never know! It might be lower than that... Lol
Never said that. I said being a physician is a calling. Try improving on your reading comprehension.
Not with accruing interest - surely you've heard of that.
I agree with you a 100%... It is foolish to tell someone not to go into medicine if it's not a calling...
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No, I don't.
Maybe you know my COA and my financial situation better than I do...
His field is Ortho in which his characteristics directly apply to his field.
Again, if you have 200 K at the end of med school, it will be much higher at the end of residency. You could make payments thru residency when you're living hand to mouth, but that will only go towards the interest, not the principal, so it's not really worth making payments during residency, when your paycheck is as low as it is.
He didnt understand what u were insinuating..
I doubt dermvis is a md he seems pretty hostile.
It can't be lower than 200k after that 4 years! What make you think that I did not take into account my supposedly 4-year of psych residency in that calculation? I think that's your problem; you assume too much!
It's true, I think what I described is a very surgical/ortho outlook on medicine. I think you could apply that outlook to something like psychiatry or even social work though.
Now that I'm actually reading this thread from the start (bad habit of mine to post before reading everythign...), I think my post was kind of a non-sequitur to the discussion. That said, I still think we shouldn't advise everyone to follow their passions or their perceived calling (though it makes sense for some). Just my $0.02.
/derail
I definitely agree that there is a fear of pragmatic career choice making among 21st century college students. ASU is now offering bachelor's degrees, masters degrees and oftentimes PhD's in things like "Digital Culture", "Sustainability" and "The Built Environment" to get enrolled and keep enrolled all those those tuition paying students who are too afraid to make a pragmatic choice and instead insist on studying what their freshman year of college has made them "truly passionate" about. No, I don't think everyone who isn't a STEM major or an accounting/finance major is stupid. But do I think people who spend 6 years and $100,000 getting bachelor's and masters degrees in Sustainability and the Built Environment only to find themselves working a largely unrelated pencil-pusher job a few years later have been had by the academy? Absolutely.
There is a common misconception in career advising that there is one thing that each of us is "meant to do", when the truth is that each of us could become passionate about and highly skilled in any of a large variety of occupations.
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I am starting to think the same thing too...
Since your goal seems to just argue back and forth, I'm done with you. This isn't the first time you've done it with me or others, and so I don't have patience with you. So bye!
What I meant by calling is that there have to be more than just monetary or tangible reasons (job security) to sustain you. As a guy in Ortho working for a hospital, you will have many patient cases in which you are essentially doing the work for free and reimbursed a pittance. That's what I meant as far as being a calling. Sorry if I was unclear.
@DermViser
I don't disagree that medicine or another field could be a "calling", but when people say that others assume what they are saying is that medicine was the one and only field you were meant to go into. I just don't buy that, and I don't think you do either.
I don't disagree that medicine or another field could be a "calling", but when people say that others assume what they are saying is that medicine was the one and only field you were meant to go into. I just don't buy that, and I don't think you do either.
You just seemed to imply that pursuing a field where you clock in and out each day was a lesser goal in life than one where you don't.
It's definitely more sacrifice for sure. Unlike other fields (at least for now), medicine, esp. faculty members at a med school, tends to look down on the clock in-clock out mentality.
@knj27 ... It's not only that... I think it make zero sense to tell someone not to pursue a career if financial is their main or only reason... People are different and they have different things that drive them...
I am pretty sure if doc salary drops to 100k or less, the process will be way less competitive...
I am pretty sure if doc salary drops to 100k or less, the process will be way less competitive...
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I didn't say being a "calling" means it was the field one was destined to go for. See my post to KinasePro. That is what I was referring to with respect to being a calling.
What is your profession?
Medical resident.
There's a book I've been meaning to read about this exact topic (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/14...2&tag=stucosuccess-20&linkId=7A4IVNTHXUJL6SVN). The author bascially makes the argument that advising to find your "passion" has led to droves of miserable professionals in crappy careers, and he presents some data to back this up. Instead, we should be primarily driven to be useful to world around us, and "passion" will inevitably flow from that. Might actually be a good read for the upcoming residency interview trail come to think of it...
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