Disadvantaged Statistics

[brighteyes1017]

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Are there metrics to help quantify what constitutes as disadvantaged?

That is, I want to say that I lived in a rural area, went to a very underachieving school, and had a relatively low income (but not below the poverty level, so it's certainly not very contributing to why I feel disadvantaged). However, I want to make sure everything I say is verifiable. Are there definitions about what is a rural area? About what is an underachieving school?

I do know my area is medically underserved as defined from : http://muafind.hrsa.gov/

Are there other metrics that will help me articulate a disadvantaged situation?

 

[LizzyM]

Most folks who self-identify as "disadvantaged" don't limit themselves to things that are verifiable. Coping with poverty and the disadvantage it brings isn't always verifiable.

If you lived in a rural area and had a school that didn't have many resources to offer college-bound students (test prep, college counselors) then you might have been at a disadvantage applying to and starting college. Because public schools are funded in large part by local tax revenue, poor communities tend to have poor schools so even if you weren't "poor" you may have gone without because your school lacked resources. Of course, students from wealthy families in rural areas have recourse to boarding schools, private schools, summer programs, etc that make up for the resource-poor public schools and they should not claim disadvantage based on the local school system if they were not affected by it. (I've seen it done-- it is not pretty to see someone who has two parents practicing medicine try to claim "disadvantage".)

TPTB are trying to identify people who are more likely than others to gravitate to under-served areas similar to where they grew up and if you believe based on your own experience that it was hard to find practitioners or there were long waits for appointments or long distances to travel to see a doctor, then the area where grew up might have been under-served regardless of how the gov't has classified your county.

 

[Wasted Energy]

@LizzyM , Is being designated by the government as a medically underserved area sufficient to check yes to the question "do you feel this area was medically underserved?" I'm not checking disadvantaged, and didn't feel like my area was underserved, but it is designated as such.

 

[whitemagic]

Just to piggyback off that, how about vice versa? I know you said "the area you grew up might have been under-served regardless of how the govt has classified your county," but I'm afraid that the ADCOM might google pics of my city (it looks awesome in pictures, but if you actually lived here, its a *******) and grill me during interviews or something

 

[LizzyM]

@LizzyM , Is being designated by the government as a medically underserved area sufficient to check yes to the question "do you feel this area was medically underserved?" I'm not checking disadvantaged, and didn't feel like my area was underserved, but it is designated as such.

How would you respond if I asked you in an interview why you think your community was underserved? If you don't feel your area was underserved, why would you answer yes to the question "do you feel this area was medically underserved?"

 

[mehc012]

Most folks who self-identify as "disadvantaged" doing limit themselves to things that are verifiable. Coping with poverty and the disadvantage it brings isn't always verifiable.

Does this include things which are technically verifiable, but for which verification is not provided in the app? For example, receiving government food assistance and/or free/reduced lunch during childhood?

Does the impact on schooling need to be specifically spelled out, or can the qualifications for disadvantaged status be described and leave it at that (otherwise, to me, it starts to sound a lot like excuses).

Finally, you mention that disadvantaged backgrounds are sometimes seen as a source of diversity...to me, this is one of the only reasons I want to mention such things. I feel that my own story/circumstances enable me to relate to people from a wide variety of backgrounds...and from what I've seen working in healthcare, that sort of understanding is often sorely needed. Is it appropriate to steer the discussion more in this direction during the disadvantaged essay, or should that wait for secondaries?

 

[LizzyM]

Just to piggyback off that, how about vice versa? I know you said "the area you grew up might have been under-served regardless of how the govt has classified your county," but I'm afraid that the ADCOM might google pics of my city (it looks awesome in pictures, but if you actually lived here, its a *******) and grill me during interviews or something

New York and Chicago look awesome in the tourism photos but both are underserved in particular because they are short of primary care providers. Same goes for many other places. Also, a county could be adequately served but a pocket that is geographically cut off from the rest of the county might consider itself underserved. If you can justify your opinion you have nothing to be concerned with IMHO.

 

[whitemagic]

Got it! That helps a lot. As always, thank you @LizzyM.

 

[Wasted Energy]

How would you respond if I asked you in an interview why you think your community was underserved? If you don't feel your area was underserved, why would you answer yes to the question "do you feel this area was medically underserved?"

That's what I'm concerned about. When I just looked at the application it said, word for word: "Do you believe that this area was medically under-served?" And the government designates my address as medically underserved via HRSA.

I'm not sure how I would tell. It does take a couple of weeks for a regular doctor's appointment, but if you have something that really needs to be seen, you can usually get in within a couple of days.

 

[LizzyM]

Does this include things which are technically verifiable, but for which verification is not provided in the app? For example, receiving government food assistance and/or free/reduced lunch during childhood?

Does the impact on schooling need to be specifically spelled out, or can the qualifications for disadvantaged status be described and leave it at that (otherwise, to me, it starts to sound a lot like excuses).

Finally, you mention that disadvantaged backgrounds are sometimes seen as a source of diversity...to me, this is one of the only reasons I want to mention such things. I feel that my own story/circumstances enable me to relate to people from a wide variety of backgrounds...and from what I've seen working in healthcare, that sort of understanding is often sorely needed. Is it appropriate to steer the discussion more in this direction during the disadvantaged essay, or should that wait for secondaries?

Yes, there are things you could provide verification for it asked (maybe -- I don't know how long places keep records about who was getting a free lunch in 2003) but no one is going to ask you to prove. It is perfectly legit to answer yes to the question about receiving gov't services if you had free lunch, subsidized housing, Medicaid, etc. Most of us are not familiar with the lowest performing high schools from coast to coast. You will list the name of your school but if you want to provide some information about the proportion of the graduating class that went on to college or the proportion who had proficiency in math and reading (I just looked at one inner-city HS in my community and it reports that 25-30% of its students are proficient in math & reading) or that you did not have a library or a gym or a physics lab or whatever you felt held you back from being ready for college.

 

[LizzyM]

That's what I'm concerned about. When I just looked at the application it said, word for word: "Do you believe that this area was medically under-served?" And the government designates my address as medically underserved via HRSA.

I'm not sure how I would tell. It does take a couple of weeks for a regular doctor's appointment, but if you have something that really needs to be seen, you can usually get in within a couple of days.

The question is asking "Do YOU BELIEVE that this area was medically under-served?" Based on your experience in accessing health care for yourself and your family, you don't seem to believe that it has been under-served. So you answer "No". This is one of YMMV questions where you may be among the lucky people with good insurance and good transportation and a good location that all comes together to make it relatively easy to get medical care. By the numbers, at the population level, this might not be the case. This does get reported automatically on your application where your county is listed with or without a (U) for underserved and/or an (R) for rural. I have never, ever seen either of those play into an admission decision. For that matter, I've never seen an adcom member at my school care about one's self-assessment of "underserved" but we're a top research school... the situation might be different at schools that are trying to train the next generation of small-town PCPs for their state.

 

[Wasted Energy]

The question is asking "Do YOU BELIEVE that this area was medically under-served?" Based on your experience in accessing health care for yourself and your family, you don't seem to believe that it has been under-served. So you answer "No". This is one of YMMV questions where you may be among the lucky people with good insurance and good transportation and a good location that all comes together to make it relatively easy to get medical care. By the numbers, at the population level, this might not be the case. This does get reported automatically on your application where your county is listed with or without a (U) for underserved and/or an (R) for rural. I have never, ever seen either of those play into an admission decision. For that matter, I've never seen an adcom member at my school care about one's self-assessment of "underserved" but we're a top research school... the situation might be different at schools that are trying to train the next generation of small-town PCPs for their state.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. "No" it is.

 

[mehc012]

Yes, there are things you could provide verification for it asked (maybe -- I don't know how long places keep records about who was getting a free lunch in 2003) but no one is going to ask you to prove. It is perfectly legit to answer yes to the question about receiving gov't services if you had free lunch, subsidized housing, Medicaid, etc. Most of us are not familiar with the lowest performing high schools from coast to coast. You will list the name of your school but if you want to provide some information about the proportion of the graduating class that went on to college or the proportion who had proficiency in math and reading (I just looked at one inner-city HS in my community and it reports that 25-30% of its students are proficient in math & reading) or that you did not have a library or a gym or a physics lab or whatever you felt held you back from being ready for college.

Ah. See, I don't feel that I was academically disadvantaged (it would almost be an insult to my mother to claim otherwise, as she spent a lot of effort specifically avoiding that eventuality), but I feel that there was a definite culture shock when I got to my undergrad, where the vast majority of students came from extremely rich and privileged backgrounds. My background was disparate enough from that of the general student body that my school classified me as a minority student solely on the basis of SE status. It definitely impacted my adjustment to college, and I would call that a major factor in my overall academic timeline. I also never really encountered anyone who was aiming to go into medicine before college, and did not seriously consider that as a possible career goal until years later.

I don't want to seem disingenuous...I had the academic resources I needed in high school, and I did very well in my studies. However, there are definitely other disadvantages that can come from growing up below the poverty line which can impede progress into a field which is predominantly seen as the domain of the wealthy and/or privileged.

 

[WingedOx]

Just to piggyback off that, how about vice versa? I know you said "the area you grew up might have been under-served regardless of how the govt has classified your county," but I'm afraid that the ADCOM might google pics of my city (it looks awesome in pictures, but if you actually lived here, its a *******) and grill me during interviews or something

I SOOOOOO want to know what city this is...

 

[charlie517]

I didn't want to start a new thread since my question is about Disadvantage and underserved questions on AMCAS, Hopein @LizzyM or any advisors can guide me:

1. I came to the US at the age of 9 (so half of my childhood exactly was spent here not the majority or minority) from a third world country that was medically underserved. I moved to florida, where though the area we lived at isn't technically underserved, the areas from where we could even afford medical care are (ie. Pompano beach). Yet, we rarely even used medical services since we had very low income at many points in my childhood and weren't all insured. Do I answer as yes?

2. Disadvantage seems to relate to having access to good academic opportunities. Up to the age of 9, I went to a private school in Peru, but a career there isn't promising at all. Once we moved to Florida, I went to public schools that were well rated, and even got into the equivalent of running start thanks to my grades and my parents constantly searching for those opportunities. The year before I started we all had to return to Peru and didn't know if we would make it back. Only my sister and I did. We stayed with relatives and worked to maintain ourselves as we both finished high school. For college, I had to deter attending since I was financially responsible for helping us stay afloat AND financially responsible for my parents back in peru. there's more to it than that, but that's the gist. Is this disadvantaged??

 

[LizzyM]

If you had to defer (not deter) college because you were supporting yourself in the States and your parents abroad, then you can certainly check the disadvantaged box and describe that you attended school in the US for awhile, had to return to Peru and then came back to the US without your parents to finish high school while living with relatives and then had to delay college due to financial issues.

If you think that it was difficult for people to find a doctor, to get an appointment, to get into a clinic for vaccines, etc, then check yes. If you think the supply of doctors, hospitals and clinics was adequate, then don't check "underserved". AMCAS is looking for your opinion and pretty much is interested in the US, not Peru.

 

[charlie517]

Thanks!

 

[brighteyes1017]

Thank you so much!