Disappointing DAT breakdown (What NOT TO DO)

[Dr.CinnamonRoll]

I wasn't going to write a breakdown because my scores are average at best (and aint noone wana read that). BUT there are a few things that I wish I would've realized during my studies, and I wanted to share how I suffered from VERY BASIC DAT advice that i've probably read like 20 times. So to get it started, I'll share my unofficial scores:
Bio 19
GC 22
OC 21
PAT 22
RC 21
QR 17

AA 20, TS 20, PAT 22


So to start, when I started studying I had unrealistic expectations of the DAT. I thought, man, if people in these breakdowns are studying for 8 hours a day and getting 25AA, as long as I study 9-10 hours a day, i'll get a 26, or even a 27!! I'll get to join feralis and his elite crew of sdn'ers. I had this idea that as long as I sat on a chair and studied until the sun went down, that I would get an exceptional score... but that was the wrong mentality to have, and I didn't realize it until it was too late.

practice test scores for SNS BC :

GC 18/16/22/18/18/19/19/19/21/22
OC 19/18/18/19/18/20/19/22/20/21
Bio 17/18/20/18/19/20/21/20/19/20

QVault Scores
Bio 19/19/20/20/20/18/20/18/20/18
GC 20/18/18/21/24/19/18/20/19/21
OC 20/18/20/20/19/18/19/19/18/22

2009 Test
22 Bio, 22 GC, 19OC

1.)Don't worry about the estimated scores.
I did the one thing that Ari and basically all of SDN told me NOT to do: get concerned about the scores. In fact, I was more obsessed with scores than actually learning the material, and that resulted in my scores being stagnant at 19/20 for a few weeks...that is, until I started going back to my notes to relearn everything in the last week and a half. This is when my scores started shooting up- and this is something I should have done ALOT earlier.

I know it's really hard to not care about the estimated scores, but it's pretty important that you don't concern yourselves with the scores AT ALL, but concern yourself with how many questions tripped you up, and not just questions you got wrong. Look at the questions you marked, and do those again. if a GC question took you 5 seconds to figure out, do enough of those that you'll know how to do them instantly. You won't have time to think about how to attack problems on the real thing. On the actual DAT, it feels like time is passing 1.2X faster.

2.) Don't neglect any subject, unless you're exceptionally proficient compared to avg students.
My first Math destroyer test I did, I got like half of them wrong. So I crammed math and went all out, and by my 5th MathD test, I could run through them all within an hour while only getting 5-6 wrong. I figured, my sciences are more in danger, I better focus more on those for now.
Fast Forward 5 weeks, the math section that I neglected ended up hurting me because of my arrogance. Same thing happened for bio (lol), where I thought If I crammed in the last week, i'd be fine... that didn't happen.
Instead, I focused more on GC because I completely sucked at it freshman year(got a D+ first semester, C+ second sem). I improved alot, but I should've spread the time more wisely.

3.) Ask yourself, what are you really retaining at the end of the day?
I wish I asked myself this everyday after I studied, because honestly speaking, I probably would have gotten the same questions wrong repeatedly. I was so concerned with just checking off ari's schedule, that I never considered if I really stored all the material in my long term.

For bio, I got almost all of the chapter quizzes correct, and same for chad's videos. But doing a question right after learning how to do them, and a few weeks after going through other subjects are COMPLETELY different. There's nothing more frustrating then looking at a question on the real DAT, and realizing that even though you used to be able to do it in 2 seconds, you're probably going to get it wrong because you forgot the freaking formula, or got confused about two similar sounding bio topics.

4.) Take your breaks, and enjoy studying.
I had alot going on this summer to be completely honest- It would've been my worst summer regardless of whether or not I took the DAT. This is kind of a pathetic excuse, but It stills stands I think because there were so many reasons to stress and lose time, I figured I couldn't afford to lose any potential time anywhere else. No breaks for me.
BUT here's the thing, ari put those breaks in your schedule for a reason. They aren't to make the schedule longer and take more money from us. The mental state of your brain physiologically and psychologically do play an impact on your performance, and me wanting to spend every minute of my time studying did not help me learn.
Also, everyone's different, so if you can cram all day and every night, go for it. But know that alot of people can't, even if they think they can (just like how I thought I could).
I know that studying sucks, but once you learn to enjoy studying, You become alot more efficient. Near the end of my studies, I was actually excited to learn about orgo and Gen chem, and i'm pretty sure that it helped to retain the info more. And that feeling that you get when you go through Destroyer, and all the questions seem easier and start making sense ...it's a great feeling.

Want to hear something funny? My scores for BC RC were stuck around 18-20, but there was one test that I got a 22. Two weeks after taking that practice test, I still remember all three passages I got, because I found all those passages incredibly fascinating. Meanwhile, I don't remember what topics I got on my other passages that I got 18s on. Just something to think about.


5. Use SDN for your questions and suggestions

take advantage of the fact that @orgoman22 and Ari are some of the most amazing people on earth. I mean, sure, we have alot of debt compared to past years...but the one thing that we have that the last generation of dentists didn't is an online community of people that care and are willing to help desperate/scared students. Ask questions, read breakdowns, and use the advice that your peers are giving out for free. I was grateful enough that I even became a donor on this site haha.


Conclusion:
I see the DAT as a mile run. Some people give their best effort and can run a 5 min mile. But that doesn't mean that everyone who runs their hardest is going to run a 5 min mile. Sometimes, people try their best and can only pull off a 8 or 9 min mile. But there could be problems with your form/breathing/etc that need improving, and you have to be the one to figure it out before it's too late.

I was not improving until I changed my study habits near the end, so even though my scores aren't terrible, I'm upset because i know I can do better. I heard too often that BC was harder than the real thing, and because of it, I expected a test that was easier than the one I got.
Now, because of my crappy 3.3ish GPA, I'll probably have to retake this exam. Having learned all that I have, i hope things will be different next time.

I know this isn't a traditional breakdown that you find on sdn, but hopefully this was of some use to at least one person. I know this is very basic DAT advice that can be found anywhere, but I ignored em, and I ended up paying the consequences. I'll be back to read this again before I start studying next summer.

If you want to ask questions about the exams or certain subjects, or have any comments, feel free to PM me. I messaged so many people before my exam, it wouldn't be fair that I didn't give back.

---

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[Pearl E. White]

I wouldn't think a retake is necessary. Your scores are consistent and on par with many accepted dental students. I wish you the best of luck and I hope you are not too upset with these scores. You did good!

 

[Nottaway]

Your analysis on the pitfalls of the 9hr/day=high score mentality is spot on. After reading over 15 different breakdowns these past few months and taking the DAT just 1 week ago, I think this has been one of the most helpful/realistic breakdowns I've read. Best of luck should you decide to retake.

 

[Faefly]

Truth to be told, this is one of the most valuable breakdowns I ever read. Partly, because I see myself in this post, I think you and I have the same mistakes.
To tell you the truth, for the past two days, I even stopped studying. I just kinda gave up. I feel this test is bigger than me, and I told my parents this today.
Their reply was: So what, you gonna sit at home doing nothing. Yeah, very supportive I know lol.
and this summer was stressful for me as well, so many problems that found their way this time instead of other times.
I mean what were we thinking, no break at all!
Lol
You know what i did on break day, I went and volunteered lol

So, yeah, think about it this way, at least you survived it! and I honestly think your scores are good!

But the problem lies with your gpa, is there is a way you can improve it? I mean there are people with lower gpa who got accepted, but still, you don't want to risk it depending on the lucky ones who got accepted with lower dat.

 

[LuckBloodandSweat]

Retake it for your pride x D. If you know you can do better go do better. You are literally my twin from my first attempt

 

[DDSDCMUU]

I think I remember you saying you took the DAT on the 28th just like me! Anyways, I think your scores are solid. I think you have a good shot at getting in. Retake if you feel you could do better but I think you should focus on your GPA instead.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

There's some really good advice here. I wouldn't be too disappointed, your scores are honestly good enough to get in - but if you think you're capable of doing better on a retake then I say go for it. With the lessons you learned along the way I'm pretty sure you would see some significant improvements. Feel free to reach out if you need any help.

 

[DAT Destroyer]

I wasn't going to write a breakdown because my scores are average at best (and aint noone wana read that). BUT there are a few things that I wish I would've realized during my studies, and I wanted to share how I suffered from VERY BASIC DAT advice that i've probably read like 20 times. So to get it started, I'll share my unofficial scores:
Bio 19
GC 22
OC 21
PAT 22
RC 21
QR 17

AA 20, TS 20, PAT 22


So to start, when I started studying I had unrealistic expectations of the DAT. I thought, man, if people in these breakdowns are studying for 8 hours a day and getting 25AA, as long as I study 9-10 hours a day, i'll get a 26, or even a 27!! I'll get to join feralis and his elite crew of sdn'ers. I had this idea that as long as I sat on a chair and studied until the sun went down, that I would get an exceptional score... but that was the wrong mentality to have, and I didn't realize it until it was too late.

practice test scores for SNS BC :

GC 18/16/22/18/18/19/19/19/21/22
OC 19/18/18/19/18/20/19/22/20/21
Bio 17/18/20/18/19/20/21/20/19/20

QVault Scores
Bio 19/19/20/20/20/18/20/18/20/18
GC 20/18/18/21/24/19/18/20/19/21
OC 20/18/20/20/19/18/19/19/18/22

2009 Test
22 Bio, 22 GC, 19OC

1.)Don't worry about the estimated scores.
I did the one thing that Ari and basically all of SDN told me NOT to do: get concerned about the scores. In fact, I was more obsessed with scores than actually learning the material, and that resulted in my scores being stagnant at 19/20 for a few weeks...that is, until I started going back to my notes to relearn everything in the last week and a half. This is when my scores started shooting up- and this is something I should have done ALOT earlier.

I know it's really hard to not care about the estimated scores, but it's pretty important that you don't concern yourselves with the scores AT ALL, but concern yourself with how many questions tripped you up, and not just questions you got wrong. Look at the questions you marked, and do those again. if a GC question took you 5 seconds to figure out, do enough of those that you'll know how to do them instantly. You won't have time to think about how to attack problems on the real thing. On the actual DAT, it feels like time is passing 1.2X faster.

2.) Don't neglect any subject, unless you're exceptionally proficient compared to avg students.
My first Math destroyer test I did, I got like half of them wrong. So I crammed math and went all out, and by my 5th MathD test, I could run through them all within an hour while only getting 5-6 wrong. I figured, my sciences are more in danger, I better focus more on those for now.
Fast Forward 5 weeks, the math section that I neglected ended up hurting me because of my arrogance. Same thing happened for bio (lol), where I thought If I crammed in the last week, i'd be fine... that didn't happen.
Instead, I focused more on GC because I completely sucked at it freshman year(got a D+ first semester, C+ second sem). I improved alot, but I should've spread the time more wisely.

3.) Ask yourself, what are you really retaining at the end of the day?
I wish I asked myself this everyday after I studied, because honestly speaking, I probably would have gotten the same questions wrong repeatedly. I was so concerned with just checking off ari's schedule, that I never considered if I really stored all the material in my long term.

For bio, I got almost all of the chapter quizzes correct, and same for chad's videos. But doing a question right after learning how to do them, and a few weeks after going through other subjects are COMPLETELY different. There's nothing more frustrating then looking at a question on the real DAT, and realizing that even though you used to be able to do it in 2 seconds, you're probably going to get it wrong because you forgot the freaking formula, or got confused about two similar sounding bio topics.

4.) Take your breaks, and enjoy studying.
I had alot going on this summer to be completely honest- It would've been my worst summer regardless of whether or not I took the DAT. This is kind of a pathetic excuse, but It stills stands I think because there were so many reasons to stress and lose time, I figured I couldn't afford to lose any potential time anywhere else. No breaks for me.
BUT here's the thing, ari put those breaks in your schedule for a reason. They aren't to make the schedule longer and take more money from us. The mental state of your brain physiologically and psychologically do play an impact on your performance, and me wanting to spend every minute of my time studying did not help me learn.
Also, everyone's different, so if you can cram all day and every night, go for it. But know that alot of people can't, even if they think they can (just like how I thought I could).
I know that studying sucks, but once you learn to enjoy studying, You become alot more efficient. Near the end of my studies, I was actually excited to learn about orgo and Gen chem, and i'm pretty sure that it helped to retain the info more. And that feeling that you get when you go through Destroyer, and all the questions seem easier and start making sense ...it's a great feeling.

Want to hear something funny? My scores for BC RC were stuck around 18-20, but there was one test that I got a 22. Two weeks after taking that practice test, I still remember all three passages I got, because I found all those passages incredibly fascinating. Meanwhile, I don't remember what topics I got on my other passages that I got 18s on. Just something to think about.


5. Use SDN for your questions and suggestions

take advantage of the fact that @orgoman22 and Ari are some of the most amazing people on earth. I mean, sure, we have alot of debt compared to past years...but the one thing that we have that the last generation of dentists didn't is an online community of people that care and are willing to help desperate/scared students. Ask questions, read breakdowns, and use the advice that your peers are giving out for free. I was grateful enough that I even became a donor on this site haha.


Conclusion:
I see the DAT as a mile run. Some people give their best effort and can run a 5 min mile. But that doesn't mean that everyone who runs their hardest is going to run a 5 min mile. Sometimes, people try their best and can only pull off a 8 or 9 min mile. But there could be problems with your form/breathing/etc that need improving, and you have to be the one to figure it out before it's too late.

I was not improving until I changed my study habits near the end, so even though my scores aren't terrible, I'm upset because i know I can do better. I heard too often that BC was harder than the real thing, and because of it, I expected a test that was easier than the one I got.
Now, because of my crappy 3.3ish GPA, I'll probably have to retake this exam. Having learned all that I have, i hope things will be different next time.

I know this isn't a traditional breakdown that you find on sdn, but hopefully this was of some use to at least one person. I know this is very basic DAT advice that can be found anywhere, but I ignored em, and I ended up paying the consequences. I'll be back to read this again before I start studying next summer.

If you want to ask questions about the exams or certain subjects, or have any comments, feel free to PM me. I messaged so many people before my exam, it wouldn't be fair that I didn't give back.

Congratulations !!!!Thank you for posting your scores, it truly will help a lot of students. Your scores are great, lower than what you would have liked but nevertheless they are good.Don't go by SDN, many students email or message me with scores quite similar to yours. Not all students score 25 plus, great that some do but that is not the norm. You do not have any low scores and schools do like consistency in scores. . I do have a few questions.

1. What is your science GPA
2. Where do you go to school
3. Where are you applying and what is your top choice school?

Without this information, it is hard to give an opinion. But if you honestly think you can do better and want to retake then, by all means, do so.

I am coming out with an extensive study guide and syllabus, that will be easy to follow and videos(all free) in the near future, that you will find helpful should you decide to retake


Wishing you the best

Dr. Jim Romano

 

[ProspectivePostPreDent]

Here's a helpful way to look at it..

~13k take the dat every year. A 23 is somewhere around 98th or 99th percentile.

In other words, fewer than 200 in the country are getting 23+... Guess where half of them come to humblebrag? Extrapolating from this site, you'd think it was thousands.

edit: based on these numbers, fewer than 200 are getting above 23 - but my point still stands. If you include people who got 23, it's still less than a thousand in the country, yet you see a score like that from 3/4 of the DAT forum posters on SDN.

It's like visiting Holland and feeling bad about your height.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

Here's a helpful way to look at it..

~13k take the dat every year. A 23 is somewhere around 98th or 99th percentile.

In other words, fewer than 200 in the country are getting 23+... Guess where half of them come to humblebrag? Extrapolating from this site, you'd think it was thousands.

Back in 2009 it was 300+ people getting a 23+. That was when the average of all test takers was a 17.6. The current average for all test takers is a 19.2, meaning the bell curve has shifted to the right. It's probably closer to 1500+ people scoring that high now every year - not as infrequent as you might think.

 

[DAT Destroyer]

Here's a helpful way to look at it..

~13k take the dat every year. A 23 is somewhere around 98th or 99th percentile.

In other words, fewer than 200 in the country are getting 23+... Guess where half of them come to humblebrag? Extrapolating from this site, you'd think it was thousands.

I agree 100 percent, the best advice is going to your grade advisor rather than taking advice from those trying to play grade advisor on this forum. Many of our students with similar schools have gotten into dental schools across the country.

Dr. Jim Romano

 

[ProspectivePostPreDent]

Back in 2009 it was 300+ people getting a 23+. That was when the average of all test takers was a 17.6. The current average for all test takers is a 19.2, meaning the bell curve has shifted to the right. It's probably closer to 1500+ people scoring that high now every year - not as infrequent as you might think.

Couple things -

First, you're right to point out the 300+, I was thinking about 23+ exclusive.. just the number 23 alone adds another 1.4% in 2009 terms (more now), which is obviously significant in this context, when 24, 25, etc all account for <1% each.

It's worth mentioning that 14000 took the test in '09, a very high year, and it's declined consistently (but modestly) since then. So the number of 23+ relative to the mean score in that year would be (slightly) inflated.

As for the 1500 estimate, that would put the percentile for 23 closer to 90th, which is not supported by any resource I've found anywhere.

For accepted students I can see it being in that range (which would obviously result in a significantly lower absolute # estimate), but for all test takers, I have a hard time believing it.

I don't have the numbers either way, so that may be the case, but either the 1500 is way off, or anybody who has ever taken a stab at the percentiles in the last few years is.

The number of DAT takers last year was around 12,700. 1500/12700 would mean that ~12% of people who walked in to take the test (not matriculating students) got the average score for a Harvard matriculant.

Even given how the grades are scrunched together on a non-linear scale, that would seem to be very odd.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

Couple things -

First, you're right to point out the 300+, I was thinking about 23+ exclusive.. inclusive adds another percentage point at least.

It's worth mentioning that 14000 took the test in '09, a very high year, and it's declined consistently (but modestly) since then. So the number of 23+ relative to the mean score in that year would be (slightly) inflated.

As for the 1500 estimate, that would put the percentile for 23 closer to 90th, which is not supported by any resource I've found anywhere.

For accepted students I can see it being in that range (which would obviously result in a significantly lower absolute # estimate), but for all test takers, I have a hard time believing it.

I don't have the numbers either way, so that may be the case, but either the 1500 is way off, or anybody who has ever taken a stab at the percentiles in the last few years is.

The number of DAT takers last year was around 12,700. 1500/12700 would mean that ~12% of people who walked in to take the test (not matriculating students) got the average score for a Harvard matriculant.

Even given how the grades are scrunched together on a non-linear scale, that would seem to be very odd.

The 1500 estimate comes from a simple shift of the bell curve two (DAT points) to the right in line with the DAT average - likely an overestimate since the current average is 19.6 and not 19.2. That shift of the bell curve would result in a significant increase in the number of 23+ scores because they would no longer be placed at the tail end of the bell curve, but closer to the center. I haven't seen any resources suggest the average would shift without maintaining distribution of that standard bell curve.

You are right about the number of test takers having declined, which would skew it even lower by a bit, but not a very significant amount (10-15%?).

Either way, I think it's clear that there are significantly more people scoring 23+ than there were when ~300 was actually the case. None of this really impacts whether or not the OP needs to retake, though.

 

[DDSDCMUU]

The 1500 estimate comes from a simple shift of the bell curve two (DAT points) to the right in line with the DAT average - likely an overestimate since the current average is 19.6 and not 19.2. That shift of the bell curve would result in a significant increase in the number of 23+ scores because they would no longer be placed at the tail end of the bell curve, but closer to the center. I haven't seen any resources suggest the average would shift without maintaining distribution of that standard bell curve.

You are right about the number of test takers having declined, which would skew it even lower by a bit, but not a very significant amount (10-15%?).

Either way, I think it's clear that there are significantly more people scoring 23+ than there were when ~300 was actually the case. None of this really impacts whether or not the OP needs to retake, though.

When did the average become a 19? I always thought it was around an 17-18 for the average test taker and 19-20 for matriculation.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

When did the average become a 19? I always thought it was around an 17-18 for the average test taker and 19-20 for matriculation.

ADEA data on this link: Tableau Public

Click on the DAT tab. Overall AA for both matriculants and non-matriculants was 19.20

 

[ProspectivePostPreDent]

The 1500 estimate comes from a simple shift of the bell curve two (DAT points) to the right in line with the DAT average - likely an overestimate since the current average is 19.6 and not 19.2. That shift of the bell curve would result in a significant increase in the number of 23+ scores because they would no longer be placed at the tail end of the bell curve, but closer to the center. I haven't seen any resources suggest the average would shift without maintaining distribution of that standard bell curve.

You are right about the number of test takers having declined, which would skew it even lower by a bit, but not a very significant amount (10-15%?).

Either way, I think it's clear that there are significantly more people scoring 23+ than there were when ~300 was actually the case. None of this really impacts whether or not the OP needs to retake, though.

You've got these switched around, but I know you already know that.

I do know of one resource which suggests that you can't shift the mean over - that is the ADEA '09 guide which showed that the standard deviations have varied pretty significantly over the years, from ~2.2 to 2.5 going back to '88, and with no clear pattern (trending up or down), based on that '09 report if IIRC.

I do agree that the number is significantly higher than 2-300 for the reasons we discussed, but still, a silly high proportion of the ones who got those scores come to this forum to show off. Say it was 900 people who got 23+ and 3/4 of the people reporting their scores got that.

No rational human believes that it's truly representative, but it could certainly be discouraging and you could suffer from an anchoring effect. (Sure, I know 3/4 don't have that score, but 1/4 could easily...)

 

[DDSDCMUU]

ADEA data on this link: Tableau Public

Click on the DAT tab. Overall AA for both matriculants and non-matriculants was 19.20

Interesting data. Thanks for sharing!

 

[LuckBloodandSweat]

I don't think it's 1k+ that score 23 and above. SDN skews our perception of what a good score is lol. Outside of this site I barely know anyone in that range. It's definitely higher than before and likely to be 500-600+ by now though.

 

[Dr.CinnamonRoll]

Thanks for the nice comments everyone! I didn't expect so many nice replies, and this wasn't the kinda breakdown i was hoping to write 3 months ago so i'm glad some of you guys think it's useful.
And yess, i am feeling better about my scores. But i'm still considering a retake because like some of you said, i'm 100% confident that I can do better. My parents are NOT going to be happy to hear me asking for another 1000 dollars loll

As for my low GPA, I have another year left at university (filled with core science courses) so I have some time to raise it. Also, I'm applying to BMS masters programs in my local area JUST INCASE I don't get in on my first application cycle, which is looking like a realistic scenario in my case. I read online that those are considered as "academic enhancers", but How they're weighted compare to undergrad GPA, i'm not really sure.

Congratulations !!!!Thank you for posting your scores, it truly will help a lot of students. Your scores are great, lower than what you would have liked but nevertheless they are good.Don't go by SDN, many students email or message me with scores quite similar to yours. Not all students score 25 plus, great that some do but that is not the norm. You do not have any low scores and schools do like consistency in scores. . I do have a few questions.

1. What is your science GPA
2. Where do you go to school
3. Where are you applying and what is your top choice school?

Without this information, it is hard to give an opinion. But if you honestly think you can do better and want to retake then, by all means, do so.

I am coming out with an extensive study guide and syllabus, that will be easy to follow and videos(all free) in the near future, that you will find helpful should you decide to retake


Wishing you the best

Dr. Jim Romano

Is it okay if I pm you?

 

[DAT Destroyer]

Thanks for the nice comments everyone! I didn't expect so many nice replies, and this wasn't the kinda breakdown i was hoping to write 3 months ago so i'm glad some of you guys think it's useful.
And yess, i am feeling better about my scores. But i'm still considering a retake because like some of you said, i'm 100% confident that I can do better. My parents are NOT going to be happy to hear me asking for another 1000 dollars loll

As for my low GPA, I have another year left at university (filled with core science courses) so I have some time to raise it. Also, I'm applying to BMS masters programs in my local area JUST INCASE I don't get in on my first application cycle, which is looking like a realistic scenario in my case. I read online that those are considered as "academic enhancers", but How they're weighted compare to undergrad GPA, i'm not really sure.


Is it okay if I pm you?

Absolutely, send me a message.

Dr. Romano

 

[sobertiger]

Your scores are pretty good! I am sure you would have a good shot at some private schools.