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I am an LMU Harrogate student and I truly cannot in good faith tell you to take on LMU-OP. It just feels like you are up against two risks: the risk of applying another cycle and the risk of attending a brand new school-- let alone one in the distributive model because as Battie has really excellently pointed out, there's definitely some big question marks there. I know *nothing* about LMU-OP, like it isn't really discussed here, they just sent an email basically being like "it's open!" and that's it.
I had a hard time deciding to take on LMU here in Tennessee but I at least had a couple more things going for me when it came to making that decision: NAVLE rates, personal feedback/anecdotal advice from graduates, the veterinarians I worked with had good things to say about LMU grads (Again anecdotal but it at least it was something), and my hospital did have a couple LMU 4th years who rotated through and they seemed to be doing well. I had all of those things to help factor into my decison, but being the inaugural class does not afford you that and it just makes me worry for you a little bit.
Also, the acceleration of LMU-OP seems frankly insane to me. We already face somewhat of an acceleration here because of the nature of the double cohorts-- things need to be fit into semesters. We spend one semester on physiology, and, afaik, most first years spend the entire year on phys. It was truly already SO FAST. So I don't know how you could make it faster? I also really would not be doing well if I knew I wouldn't have summer breaks-- which I assume LMU-OP won't have.
I made the choice because, like you, I felt the impending doom of BBB (I am guessing LMU-OP would have you start before July? because that's the cut off for the loan caps) so I felt kind of now-or-never about it-- I ended up being really happy here and really appreciate the faculty I directly work with and learn from. but still, I have wary feelings of LMU as a larger entity for reasons that have been stated all over this thread.
I would really explore what it would be like to apply again (I know, it's not fun being in limbo) and if you have an in-state ESPECIALLY, I would consider gunning for that in-state tuition over this.
i love you
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Sawyer2013
Full Member
I know you’re not in clinical rotations yet, but how do you feel about the setup? I was told that I pretty much have full reign of where I go which changes a lot of things cost wise. If that’s not the case that’s a lot of added cost.
I wish it was as simple as knowing the LMU Harrogate students seems to be off well so why wouldn’t they be able to manage the same way with OP 😔
Truly knowing my purpose is to be a veterinarian but having a hard time taking the risk with OP.
Thanks so much for your advice.
I wish it was as simple as knowing the LMU Harrogate students seems to be off well so why wouldn’t they be able to manage the same way with OP 😔
Truly knowing my purpose is to be a veterinarian but having a hard time taking the risk with OP.
Thanks so much for your advice.
Hey! Wow, “full reign” is nothing close to the messaging we get over here in TN. There are “student proposed electives”, not something you HAVE to do but something you MAY do, if it has been approved. What goes into the approval process? I do not know. But, this is just for one of your elective blocks. You still have core blocks that align with different things, small animal GP, small animal specialty, large animal ambulatory, diagnostic imaging, etc.
You may also be referring to the fact that you can make requests. You can look at the list of practices and make a request for where you would like to be but they make it very clear to us that there is no guarantee. You can also request certain areas— not every area in the U.S. has rotation practices but for example central Florida has a lot so you can say hey, I would like to stay in central Florida as much as possible, I have housing here, etc. Again, no guarantee, but from what I here people do tend to get these needs met.
I am super alarmed by what I read saying you guys have to come up to the Virginia campus for “large animal activities” Have they spoke to you anymore about what that would entail?
i'm not an LMU student, so feel free to ignore what i say. but if i were me, i would honestly re-apply.
i'm sifting through the website provided and it looks like large animal activities and rotations are going to be held at a facility in virginia that is a significant expense for a student to take on. constantly flying back and forth, renting a room or airbnb, gas, food, clothes, time. have you been provided information on if you will be solely responsible for getting yourself up to virginia or will the school be financing the travel? i would be concerned if you aren't getting a clear answer on what your education will look like.
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Sawyer2013
Full Member
Guess I should also say, my questioning of their preparation even comes down to the buildings being ready. The Veterinary building is not done but the DO building is and they don’t even start till the fall? Seems like poor planning and trickery considering they had a grand opening for a campus that’s not done. Orientation is June 4/5 and there’s been no further information sent out yet… that feels like a big deal too right? Why not just wait to open till they are actually ready?!
Sawyer2013
Full Member
I spoke with someone in depth. He told me I can pick which areas I want to go to. That they have a great network already from the Harrogate campus and had just went to something in Florida where many clinics came interested in creating partnership. I also have a chronic pain disease, so I don’t travel well, especially for weeks at a time, and staying close to my care team is a big deal for my success.
Something else… they messed up sending me my acceptance letter. I never got it in January. So I technically forfeited my seat since I didn’t pay my deposit. They gave my my seat back but it just feels fishy. I know for sure I didn’t miss an email. They had my correct email and my application on the portal still said that my application was under review. I know mistakes happen but to me this felt like a red flag and no ownership of the mistake. They left me with 1 month to get everything together which is why I’m freaking out.
Something else… they messed up sending me my acceptance letter. I never got it in January. So I technically forfeited my seat since I didn’t pay my deposit. They gave my my seat back but it just feels fishy. I know for sure I didn’t miss an email. They had my correct email and my application on the portal still said that my application was under review. I know mistakes happen but to me this felt like a red flag and no ownership of the mistake. They left me with 1 month to get everything together which is why I’m freaking out.
Yup. I was gonna ask if you toured or if they even offer that because I am a little suspicious about the state of things over there. Like I said, my lived experience thus far has been good and this was ultimately the decision that worked for me trying to get my DVM (like trust me, I know what you are feeling right now) HOWEVER, there is a lot about LMU OP thats.. strange to me. And LMU on the grander scale makes choices that are also .. strange to me. I am carefully choosing my words here 😀 but yeah, I know applying again is rough but.. this seems so risky.
Lolllllll I will tell you, the messy admissions is not unique to OP: a lot of my peers have similar stories. I got off the waitlist with a month to get my life together, so I do feel your stress.
Sawyer2013
Full Member
As far as headed to Virginia for large animal, the guy told me they are still trying to figure out how to make that happen.
He told me if I wanted to head home for all my rotations I could… couldn’t guarantee they would be close to where I live but I’d get full say.
He told me if I wanted to head home for all my rotations I could… couldn’t guarantee they would be close to where I live but I’d get full say.
Sawyer2013
Full Member
Can’t tour. Not open for tours.
Wow. “still trying to figure out” is just not good enough. You mention having issues with travel— this is so important. We work on large animal clinical skills every semester right from the start, and the labs span the entire semester. So what happens? they ship you guys up here once a semester? That would be asking a lot of you. I am so sorry this is so messy but you deserve some answers. This “not sure” stuff is just unacceptable for a doctorate program.
Also did not apply to LMU, but that would be a hard no from me. Messy admissions happen; my year Illinois accidentally sent out acceptance letters and then rescinded them. Crap happens. But the letter thing on top of not even being able to visit, on top of not having a teaching hospital, on top of the cost, nah. You’re life and your schooling is worth knowing what you’re getting into. Taking on that amount of debt is no small feat and should not be considered lightly.
I’ve voiced a lot of my opinions about LMU-OP. But once again my biggest concerns are:
1. The facilities aren’t done???? They won’t let people see them but last we checked their permit said late 2026?
2. The school seems to answer most questions with contradictions or “I don’t know yet”
3. They claim they’re opening to expand access to care yet they have no current capability to produce large animal vets (Floridas biggest need rn) and they allegedly strong armed the local specialty into shutting down. Why are students expected to fly to another state for any large animal handling?
4. The clinical rotations are STILL not secured. Who are these “clinics”? Why won’t they name them on their website? Clinics are not speciality hospitals with specialty services. A large number of its students will be from Florida. You bet your bottom dollar all of these students will be gunning to stay in Florida for clinics. I don’t see how they can assure you you can be somewhere for clinics when they don’t even have contracts set in stone with local specialists.
5. The accelerated program yet high tuition and no teaching hospital
I cannot in good conscience recommend people attend this program. Don’t go six figures into debt for “we don’t know yet.”
1. The facilities aren’t done???? They won’t let people see them but last we checked their permit said late 2026?
2. The school seems to answer most questions with contradictions or “I don’t know yet”
3. They claim they’re opening to expand access to care yet they have no current capability to produce large animal vets (Floridas biggest need rn) and they allegedly strong armed the local specialty into shutting down. Why are students expected to fly to another state for any large animal handling?
4. The clinical rotations are STILL not secured. Who are these “clinics”? Why won’t they name them on their website? Clinics are not speciality hospitals with specialty services. A large number of its students will be from Florida. You bet your bottom dollar all of these students will be gunning to stay in Florida for clinics. I don’t see how they can assure you you can be somewhere for clinics when they don’t even have contracts set in stone with local specialists.
5. The accelerated program yet high tuition and no teaching hospital
I cannot in good conscience recommend people attend this program. Don’t go six figures into debt for “we don’t know yet.”
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Sawyer2013
Full Member
The plan is to be there for 2 weeks I think they’re just trying to figure out how
Sawyer2013
Full Member
They have a Harrogate student in our discord. He says they’re making us a bunch of models to work on…
Sawyer2013
Full Member
The guy made it seem to me that they have a large network of clinics. But when can I see the list?? Is there a list??
I have asked for the list as have potential students. Yet it is never provided.
I assume you are a Florida resident based on your consideration of LMU-OP and wanting to stay home. I am super busy w the baby and finishing school but if you do decide to reapply I would be happy to personally go through your application with you. I did serve on admissions last year. It really pains me to see a corporation trying to take advantage of students desperate to fulfill their dreams. At the end of the day if the students can’t pass boards or finish the program it’s them stuck with the debt with no degree and not the school.
Sawyer2013
Full Member
I’m in Maryland. So it’s a lot of money to spend for me to even get down there. A lot of the students in our discord are just focused on being able to take the NAVLE and are excited. I wish I could think the same.
I should feel happy that I got in, not concerned about the program or what’s going to happen if I don’t go due to the BBB federal loan changes. This is putting a lot of professional seeking students in a hard spot.
Thank you so much! I might be taking you up on the offer!
I should feel happy that I got in, not concerned about the program or what’s going to happen if I don’t go due to the BBB federal loan changes. This is putting a lot of professional seeking students in a hard spot.
Thank you so much! I might be taking you up on the offer!
@Sawyer2013
The lack of exposure to LA is very concerning to me, even if you want to practice in SA. In my opinion regardless of area of practice we should be thoroughly trained on at least all four major domestics - at any time you could be called to service like in the UK foot-and-mouth outbreak of 2001. Regardless of how "in-depth" the LA sessions will be I think consistent practice and the ability to spontaneously interact with these animals outside of class hours is needed.
Flying you out to a different state for this also just sounds like a horrible logistical nightmare that is certainly not setting you up well for subsequent intensive training / study (given the limited time to interact with the animals). Also I know I straight up would not be able to afford the flights / accommodations, so would students in a similar position just not get to have LA hands on experience? I would be so frazzled by the entire affair that I probably wouldn't be able to learn anything.
This along with the other concerns in the thread makes me believe the model that LMU-OP is proposing doesn't seem ready to provide you the comprehensive veterinary education you need. They're trying to fly by the seat of their pants and that isn't appropriate for a school training doctors.
The lack of exposure to LA is very concerning to me, even if you want to practice in SA. In my opinion regardless of area of practice we should be thoroughly trained on at least all four major domestics - at any time you could be called to service like in the UK foot-and-mouth outbreak of 2001. Regardless of how "in-depth" the LA sessions will be I think consistent practice and the ability to spontaneously interact with these animals outside of class hours is needed.
Flying you out to a different state for this also just sounds like a horrible logistical nightmare that is certainly not setting you up well for subsequent intensive training / study (given the limited time to interact with the animals). Also I know I straight up would not be able to afford the flights / accommodations, so would students in a similar position just not get to have LA hands on experience? I would be so frazzled by the entire affair that I probably wouldn't be able to learn anything.
This along with the other concerns in the thread makes me believe the model that LMU-OP is proposing doesn't seem ready to provide you the comprehensive veterinary education you need. They're trying to fly by the seat of their pants and that isn't appropriate for a school training doctors.
Sawyer2013
Full Member
I am not necessarily interested in large animal but at least need to know enough for the NAVLE. Is 2 weeks really enough preparation - probably not. Will it really make any significant difference if I were to go next year vs this one? It’s a lot to think about
Sawyer2013
Full Member
And yes at the end of the day all I really NEED is to pass the NAVLE, but passing the NAVLE alone doesn’t make me a good doctor. It just feels wrong to charge such a large amount of tuition for your inaugural class completing a completely new 3 year program.
I mean, the rotations are a big part of your training for NAVLE. Going to any provisionally accredited newly developed school means you are eligible to take the NAVLE, but it doesn’t guarantee that you will receive the quality education to pass. Obviously we sincerely hope that everyone passes, usually the new schools do have satisfactory pass rates (up till now at least), and no one wants to think it may be them who fails, but it’s not a guarantee and it IS a risk people should consider when deciding whether or not to go to a new school with an untested curriculum.
Vet school is hard even when admin is doing their best to be helpful and have decades of institutional knowledge and experience. I can’t imagine going to a place that is disorganized and takes a “well, we’ll figure it out eventually” attitude potentially to the student’s detriment. Hopefully they do figure it all out before students start but the concerns raised here are valid and it’s weird they’re not giving more reassurances in some aspects (e.g. facilities, where you can go) while sounding like a salesperson making lofty promises about where you can go.
Sawyer2013
Full Member
Even now I’m speaking with a current LMU student about her experience selecting clinical rotation sites. She said it’s a match program, she got everything in the order and location she wanted, but some friends didn’t. I understand there has to be some type of system in place for rotation selection with a bunch of students needing placement as well. But from what I was told it was like there would be no issue going where I wanted to. I’m so confused.
She said there’s over 400 sites to select from in a program called Medtrics. I guess I just don’t have access to it since I’m not close to rotations.
She said there’s over 400 sites to select from in a program called Medtrics. I guess I just don’t have access to it since I’m not close to rotations.
They're being salespeople to make their program sound attractive and curated for you when, in reality, they just want to pocket your tuition dollars and don't care about you as a student or providing you with the education that their tuition demands. Why build a teaching hospital and invest in their program when they just want to make a buck?
That is how clinics work at most school. You can tell them your interests / preferred locations, and that is taken into mind, but that is all. You don’t get to pick, a schedule is assigned to you. I don’t know how they can promise you that you can be where you want. Sure they can have some mystery database - but do they have every single core clinical rotation in said area you desire? What happens if hospitals close or decide they no longer want to work with the schools?
Over 400 sites? There is no way that they are ensuring all of these sites are good, ready to host students, the doctors there are willing to host students, etc etc etc.
I have no skin in this game, but academic hospitals are hemorrhaging faculty. Does LMU-OP even have an adequate number of faculty on staff that are ready and capable of teaching an incoming class?
I'm crispy fried right now. So my filter is just gone
I will say, my school had minimal “vetting” (pun intended) of our externship sites…we just filled out a form saying where we were going/who was supervising us, turned it in, and the admin approved it. I don’t think any new locations I set up were ever called or anything, they were just approved and then sent grading forms after the rotation ended. But the key difference is that those were just a couple of electives, not core rotations or the bulk of our clinical year.
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is…is this a gardening joke? bc if so, i double love you
I wish cause I'm going to start a veggie garden in the front yard here soon.
But it's actually a burnt out joke 😅
you're doing your best and that's more than enough !!
but back on the topic at hand:
you also have a current LMU student in this thread explaining what they were told. you can talk to other students from distributive model schools: it's never a guarantee where you go. they may have you in maryland for 2 months, and then all of a sudden, you have to go to washington, then arizona, then back to florida, THEN back to maryland. at the end of the day: you need to complete your requirements and it doesn't matter if you need to travel by plane, train, or car to get there. it has to be done.
the fact you have many questions and hesitations should be all you need to make a decision. i'm not sure what more we can tell you, as we cannot make the decision for you.
This.
I read an interesting post from a few weeks ago on FB in a vet group in the UK, discussing how it's impossible to find a job there for new grads. Some reasons given were they opened too many schools too soon, and also implemented a mandatory mentorship / CE program for new grads (meaning a lot of clinics won't take new grads on anymore because of the extra work).
Some were saying they have been searching across the whole of the UK for months and months with no sign in site. Interestingly a lot of the comments indicate that the oversaturation is most severe in large, with food and equine medicine being so competitive there are usually 20+ people applying for each position, and suggesting people apply for suburban or rural SA, though some SA clinics said they had received more than 100+ applications for a single position.
Reminiscent of 2008 in North America and I feel foreboding given the number of schools opening up in the U.S.
https://www.facebook
.com/groups/208421471068776/posts/1447845907126320/
Some were saying they have been searching across the whole of the UK for months and months with no sign in site. Interestingly a lot of the comments indicate that the oversaturation is most severe in large, with food and equine medicine being so competitive there are usually 20+ people applying for each position, and suggesting people apply for suburban or rural SA, though some SA clinics said they had received more than 100+ applications for a single position.
Reminiscent of 2008 in North America and I feel foreboding given the number of schools opening up in the U.S.
https://www.facebook
.com/groups/208421471068776/posts/1447845907126320/
That's wild on so many levels
Apparently this is said program. Combined with the fact that the degree is already 5 years there, pretty brutal. And the mentors need to have at least 3 years of UK license registration plus take voluntary specific VetGDP training plus be willing to take on a student for 12-18 months. What the #%*} is this and who thought this was a good idea?
www.rcvs.org.uk
Veterinary Graduate Development Programme (VetGDP): For vet students
Are you a veterinary student thinking about what comes next? The Veterinary Graduate Development Programme (VetGDP) gives you one-to-one mentoring and helps build confidence through structured activities.
Been lurking on this post, but I'm here to say THIS!
@Sawyer2013 You have answered your own question multiple times in this thread. It's hard to accept the truth, but it's all laid out here for you. There is nothing left to be said about why all of us here recommend declining your seat and reapplying elsewhere. You have lots of options. Going in circles will not make the choice any easier on yourself.
madrigal01
MS State c/o 2029
*ahem*
"Madrigal01 checking in from sunny Orange Park, FL, where it's 92° and sunny with no rain in sight.
We are T-2 months from LMU OP CVM from welcoming their inaugural class, and folks, it's not looking good.
The School of Osteopathic Medicine is fully done and honestly looks pretty nice! A bunch of offices, a really pretty lunch room, and hospital bed simulations on the third floor along with their 1(?) lecture hall and study rooms.
Now, y'all might be asking why I was even in the school of Osteopathic Medicine. Well folks, that's simple! They have the wrong address on their freaking website.
The address of the Osteopathic Medicine building is what's on the website. Now arguably, I'm assuming that all of the offices will be at Osteopathic building, so maybe that's why they have it set as that, or it could be because the Vetmed building is not even close to being done.
Floors aren't laid, no running water, little furniture. People actively working. With less than two months until they welcome their first class, it will be interesting to see what they'll have done by the first day of classes.
From Clay County, this is Madrigal01, W-SDN."
CeeGee14
U.C Davis c/o 2029
Thank you for your service.
And this is just apalling. WHAT DO YOU MEAN THE BASIC FACILITES AREN'T EVEN DONE YET?!
When the permit said late 2026 they really meant late 2026
CeeGee14
U.C Davis c/o 2029
As in December 31st, 11:59pm. I bet that's when they'll finish
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miriam1216
Full Member
As a former journalist, I wholly concur. A+ reporting @madrigal01
I view all construction timelines as insanely optimistic, but even more so for commercial/educational spaces. I feel like every building my undergrad built took months if not literal years longer than expected. So a late 2026 really means we hope by end of 2027.
Honestly ya, fantastic point. Same with road work.
i wonder if things will start asynchronous, which then makes me wonder about the AVMA distance learning requirements and if accreditation is at risk?
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