DISCUSS: News on Future veterinary schools

Started by Mr.Smile12
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college of veterinary medicine
Veterinary Science Graduate Programs from U. of I.
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mkg323 said:
I’m just curious, I know everyone here preaches going to the cheapest option, but was having no private loans the only “pro” to this decision? I guess I’m quite curious as to why you chose LMU OP over whatever other options you had.
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no private loans was definitely a major pro, but it wasn’t the only thing. being part of an inaugural class is a huge opportunity, i am able to help shape the culture, traditions, and student experience from the ground up, which i think is really special. my family has a condo in the area so cheap housing. i go to Cornell for UG and i knew i did not want to live in this area anymore, so i took a shot and applied here. being able to avoid the bbb and also graduating a year early means i am able to pay back my loans a year earlier. i am in a group chat with all of the accepted student right now and everyone is so supportive and we are all here to learn and build this program. i did undergrad in 3 years, and now being able to do vet school in 3 years saves me 2 entire years that i can use to do an internship and residency. i am excited to be in school year round because in the summers i am so lazy, so this will def keep me in line. thank you for asking for my perspective! theres more too like i am able to go anywhere i want for my clinical as long as i get it approved by the school. but here is the short bland answer. LMU also had a good navle pass rate. i know wherever i go im going to succeed and be a good doctor.
 
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just opened this thread what is going on...
 
fauna said:
It really isn’t hate. Like it pains me that you are choosing to receive critical thinking as hatred. In fact, the conversation wasn’t even tense before you joined. It was very calm and inquisitive. It has nothing to do with the students, other than genuine concern, and everything to do with the school itself not having standards.

It is genuinely rich of you to post in here, accusing everyone of being hateful. But, when you do it, it’s cute? Okay girl.
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It was calm because you all had the same view..?
 
mousey1220 said:
LMU also had a good navle pass rate.
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your decision is your decision, so I am not trying to change it but, for the sake of information, LMU OP does not *have* a pass rate. This is for LMU in Harrogate, which is a separate vet school, established in 2014.

mousey1220 said:
theres more too like i am able to go anywhere i want for my clinical as long as i get it approved by the school.
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hey so, as discussed earlier, this is how it works for ELECTIVE blocks. your core blocks are a different story.
ETA: this is at least what I am being told during our clinical year town halls/meetings. what do I know? they could absolutely be telling you that for LMU OP, but I would
just generally advise caution.
 
mousey1220 said:
Do we have to be professional all the time?
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Nope, but you do also need to be able to have perspective outside of the benefits to you. As someone who grew up too fast, burnt out, and started vet school at the age you’ll be graduating at, I strongly encourage you to view every step forward as a learning opportunity. A lot of growth happens between 20 and 25, especially if you’re open to it.
 
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fauna said:
your decision is your decision, so I am not trying to change it but, for the sake of information, LMU OP does not *have* a pass rate. This is for LMU in Harrogate, which is a separate vet school, established in 2014.


hey so, as discussed earlier, this is how it works for ELECTIVE blocks. your core blocks are a different story.
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yeah.. so i know.. like i said.. lmu has a reputable pass rate.. i did not say lmu op has a high pass rate, i was going off of their main location..
 
mousey1220 said:
no private loans was definitely a major pro, but it wasn’t the only thing. being part of an inaugural class is a huge opportunity, i am able to help shape the culture, traditions, and student experience from the ground up, which i think is really special. my family has a condo in the area so cheap housing. i go to Cornell for UG and i knew i did not want to live in this area anymore, so i took a shot and applied here. being able to avoid the bbb and also graduating a year early means i am able to pay back my loans a year earlier. i am in a group chat with all of the accepted student right now and everyone is so supportive and we are all here to learn and build this program. i did undergrad in 3 years, and now being able to do vet school in 3 years saves me 2 entire years that i can use to do an internship and residency. i am excited to be in school year round because in the summers i am so lazy, so this will def keep me in line. thank you for asking for my perspective! theres more too like i am able to go anywhere i want for my clinical as long as i get it approved by the school. but here is the short bland answer. LMU also had a good navle pass rate. i know wherever i go im going to succeed and be a good doctor.
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Not that you've responded to any of my points directly.

But.... Honestly this is all well thought out with a logical line of thinking. And, like I've said, this isn't about you. It's about a cumulative effect on vet med for going on over a decade at this point where veterinary education is at a crossroads of too expensive for what it is, too saturated, not enough teaching clinicians, and too expensive of care for middle class Americans. Institutions such as LMU are taking advantage of education like private equity is taking advantage of medicine. Somethings gotta give.
 
battie said:
Not that you've responded to any of my points directly.

But.... Honestly this is all well thought out with a logical line of thinking. And, like I've said, this isn't about you. It's about a cumulative effect on vet med for going on over a decade at this point where veterinary education is at a crossroads of too expensive for what it is, too saturated, not enough teaching clinicians, and too expensive of care for middle class Americans. Institutions such as LMU are taking advantage of education like private equity is taking advantage of medicine. Somethings gotta give.
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there was so many replies toward me i definitely did NOT answer everyone but yes 100 percent i understand that view of it being expensive and no teaching hospital etc.. who knows with this class, we are all strong advocates, maybe something will happen along the way to change this. i know they are trying to work with the community of orange park to help bring the city back.
 
mousey1220 said:
no private loans was definitely a major pro, but it wasn’t the only thing. being part of an inaugural class is a huge opportunity, i am able to help shape the culture, traditions, and student experience from the ground up, which i think is really special. my family has a condo in the area so cheap housing. i go to Cornell for UG and i knew i did not want to live in this area anymore, so i took a shot and applied here. being able to avoid the bbb and also graduating a year early means i am able to pay back my loans a year earlier. i am in a group chat with all of the accepted student right now and everyone is so supportive and we are all here to learn and build this program. i did undergrad in 3 years, and now being able to do vet school in 3 years saves me 2 entire years that i can use to do an internship and residency. i am excited to be in school year round because in the summers i am so lazy, so this will def keep me in line. thank you for asking for my perspective! theres more too like i am able to go anywhere i want for my clinical as long as i get it approved by the school. but here is the short bland answer. LMU also had a good navle pass rate. i know wherever i go im going to succeed and be a good doctor.
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I think its very noble to want to help build the school up. I am sure you will percervere through whatever road bumps occur, but lets be honest there will be road bumps, and that is what a lot of the discourse on here is about. It’s a pretty high risk position, being in an inaugural class, and while you are very game, its worth acknowledging. I just really struggle to wrap my head around the fact that its a completely new 3 year curriculum, without a hospital, and it is nearly equivalent in tuition to my (admittedly very stupidly high) cost of tuition for 4 years at an established vet school with high caseload teaching hospitals, with boarded clinicians in every specialty in 2 separate hospitals. I felt my COA was stupid, and LMU OP’s feels even more predatory bc it doesnt even come with the standard facilities, nor a track record. How can the two be equivalent? I honestly cant even find a faculty list anywhere on the website? All this is to say, I’m concerned the school will fail you, the students, because based on LMU OPs actions, it doesnt appear that your best interests are their priority. And if you want to specialize, it may be more work because you lack those academic specialty ties, as well as a standardized clinical education, that a teaching hospital would give you.
 
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The lack of a teaching hospital in and of itself isn’t a critical issue in the grand scheme of things. When a school has proper external rotation sites, it’s been shown that the distributive model can work. I think the issue that myself and a lot of people who hang around SDN have are that a lot of the newer distributive schools without hospitals are just as if not more expensive than schools that do have (and subsequently have to fund and staff) hospitals. So these new schools are charging their students a lot more and offering them significantly less resources…for no reason other than to make more money off of you. If a distributive school, which is inherently cheaper for an institution to run because hospitals are expensive to run and you need multiple specialists and lots of staff and equipment per specialty to appropriately staff, was cheaper than a school with a hospital I wouldn’t have nearly as many concerns. There are some added concerns with LMU OP because it seems from discussions here they aren’t being transparent with where their clinical partners are and what is/isn’t possible for students compared to a more longstanding distributive school. Being a new program there’s no actual grads to “vouch” for the sites, there’s just a lot of promises no one can actually verify now. And maybe that school will be fine in the end, but it seems abnormal right now is what I can say. Other schools that have been around longer will likely not have those specific issues. All that to say, go to the cheapest school. I’d maybe pay a slight bit more (and I do mean slight, like <$10,000 more per year max) for the resources a hospital provides to a student’s education, but when done properly distributive model is fine and cost should be your bigger concern as long as NAVLE pass rates are acceptable.
 
battie said:
Not to mention students have very limited influence on the big picture of how a school is run even in the best of circumstances. Privately owned institutions? Not a chance.
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Right? We can all attest to the various stupidities that happened at our respective schools while we were attending. Some of those stupidities may have been significant. At the end of the day, the students re the last to know and sometimes the last to be considered, believe it or not.

Personally I would not want the added stress of trying to ‘shape and build a school’ or whatever while trying to survive vet school. There are enough hurdles for students in established vet schools, can’t imagine how extra it would be at a school with what might be unfinished facilities, unfilled faculty spots, unclear clinical year plans, etc.
 
pp9 said:
Right? We can all attest to the various stupidities that happened at our respective schools while we were attending. Some of those stupidities may have been significant. At the end of the day, the students re the last to know and sometimes the last to be considered, believe it or not.

Personally I would not want the added stress of trying to ‘shape and build a school’ or whatever while trying to survive vet school. There are enough hurdles for students in established vet schools, can’t imagine how extra it would be at a school with what might be unfinished facilities, unfilled faculty spots, unclear clinical year plans, etc.
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It's a very naive mindset to have. No institution or any adjacent entity in a capitalist society has regular people on the top of their priority list. It's about money, power, and appearances. And unless you also have a lot of power, it will take more than just one person and a whole lot of work to make any tangible changes to an unfair system.
 
fauna said:
Wait sorry Idk if you are in slang 101 or 102– have you learned clout yet?
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Probably not, guessing there isn't a lecture hall available for Slang to Proper English Terminology 301
mousey1220 said:
LMU also had a good navle pass rate.
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LMU in Tennessee did. This is an entirely different school, with different faculty (assuming there are any), and different problems. Just because they have the same name and your dollars are going to the same (greedy) people doesn't mean they're providing you with the same education.
breezywonton said:
View attachment 419116
just opened this thread what is going on...
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IDK I'm making my observations and going back to birdwatching.
 
battie said:
Not to mention students have very limited influence on the big picture of how a school is run even in the best of circumstances. Privately owned institutions? Not a chance.
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As a someone constantly mired in curriculum development and accreditation.....for sure. And even then, while we welcome (and constantly seek) student input and integrate it when we can, they have no idea what it takes to keep the monstrosity that is a professional program chugging along, let alone getting one off the ground (not their fault - I sure as hell didn't when I was in school). And I'm even at an established program. It's because it is a giant Jenga tower. Everything affects everything else and almost nobody can see all the ramifications of even small potato changes.

The inner workings of a veterinary/medical/dental school are obscenely complicated. And then we (meaning the rank and file faculty) are the ones who get slammed because the students get angry that we can't change what they want - because even though we may want to, we are caught in between the money (or lack thereof) at the top and the lack of support at the bottom (i.e. infrastructure). Change is absolutely glacial in academia.

back to rocking in the corner of my office repeating i love my job i love my job i love my job i love my job

(i do)

(most of the time)
 
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mousey1220 said:
no private loans was definitely a major pro, but it wasn’t the only thing. being part of an inaugural class is a huge opportunity, i am able to help shape the culture, traditions, and student experience from the ground up, which i think is really special. my family has a condo in the area so cheap housing. i go to Cornell for UG and i knew i did not want to live in this area anymore, so i took a shot and applied here. being able to avoid the bbb and also graduating a year early means i am able to pay back my loans a year earlier. i am in a group chat with all of the accepted student right now and everyone is so supportive and we are all here to learn and build this program. i did undergrad in 3 years, and now being able to do vet school in 3 years saves me 2 entire years that i can use to do an internship and residency. i am excited to be in school year round because in the summers i am so lazy, so this will def keep me in line. thank you for asking for my perspective! theres more too like i am able to go anywhere i want for my clinical as long as i get it approved by the school. but here is the short bland answer. LMU also had a good navle pass rate. i know wherever i go im going to succeed and be a good doctor.
Click to expand...
This has been addressed but the bolded part I think is the opposite of what you think it is. I was the inaugural class of a new curriculum at a very well established vet school and the experience was ... rough to say the least. Things like forgetting to add a class to our schedule until the semester was almost over and then having to extend the semester 2 weeks into what was supposed to be summer break, faculty not knowing how to teach brand new classes that were created or double teaching the same material, etc. It worked out, I survived, but it was not fun. And this again was at a school that has been around since 1947... because of that experience I would never recommend offering yourself up to be a guinea pig for new things if you can help it.
 
KCgophervet said:
This has been addressed but the bolded part I think is the opposite of what you think it is. I was the inaugural class of a new curriculum at a very well established vet school and the experience was ... rough to say the least. Things like forgetting to add a class to our schedule until the semester was almost over and then having to extend the semester 2 weeks into what was supposed to be summer break, faculty not knowing how to teach brand new classes that were created or double teaching the same material, etc. It worked out, I survived, but it was not fun. And this again was at a school that has been around since 1947... because of that experience I would never recommend offering yourself up to be a guinea pig for new things if you can help it.
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it crowd fire GIF

As soon to be former college professor, I second this.
 
mousey1220 said:
Imagine hating and im over here just griddying on yall </3 </3
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I know this was probably satirical but this is some of the most severe second hand embarassment I've ever received from a text post... well done.

As for the actual issue, when vet school admissions are so grueling it's natural to feel upset by criticisms of the institution that took you on since it can feel so personal. However, on SDN we are volunteering our free time and wealth of knowledge gained from applying, attending school, advising etc. to try to help future vet students succeed. The concerns a lot of us have with LMU-OP are based on this experience, as all evidence to date shows the school is unprepared to admit and properly train a new class of veterinarians. You and your future patients deserve a better education program than this.

I believe if you were able to get into LMU-OP, you would be able to get into other schools too! I highly encourage you to hold off on attending and reapply. It's certainly scary with the financial aid situation in the US but what you want even less is to graduate after 3 years in equally immense debt but unprepared to be a veterinarian and crushed by it. Ultimately only you can make the decision for yourself. Whatever that choice is I wish you the best.
 
Current LMU-OPCVM student here. It is being taught as TBL and they don’t do lectures. I believe it’s split 50/50 some people like it some don’t. It wasn’t presented to us that it was going to be taught like this and I feel very blindsided. I’m definitely going to try and figure it out I just hope I don’t burn out in the process. It was my only chance of vet school and I have applied 4 cycles without getting in.
 
futdogtor said:
Current LMU-OPCVM student here. It is being taught as TBL and they don’t do lectures. I believe it’s split 50/50 some people like it some don’t. It wasn’t presented to us that it was going to be taught like this and I feel very blindsided. I’m definitely going to try and figure it out I just hope I don’t burn out in the process. It was my only chance of vet school and I have applied 4 cycles without getting in.
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What is TBL in this context?
 
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futdogtor said:
Team-Based Learning. You have to do what is called pre-work for classes so you can come to class ready to discuss with your assigned groups. Teachers do not review anything during class. No presentation.
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I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess they can’t find specialists to teach tbh.

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. While TBL was helpful in some ways, I don’t think it should be the entirety of a curriculum.
 
katiemcat said:
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess they can’t find specialists to teach tbh.

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. While TBL was helpful in some ways, I don’t think it should be the entirety of a curriculum.
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They actually have a lot of people here that have a lot of background. The curriculum is just TBL structured. A lot of people taught at other schools.
 
futdogtor said:
Team-Based Learning. You have to do what is called pre-work for classes so you can come to class ready to discuss with your assigned groups. Teachers do not review anything during class. No presentation.
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Interesting! tOSU has a bit of that in our populations class, though it was still accompanied by lecture material. I can't say it was very popular 😅
 
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