Dismissed convictions

[F.Underwood]

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Of course schools want it. They will take anything and everything to judge you. If the conviction is dismissed, don't list it. If a secondary requires you to list it, do it. If it doesn't, don't list it. The rules are clear. Schools can't violate it unless they want a lawsuit.

Thanks for the response.

So you are basically saying that they cannot revoke conditional acceptances just because they feel like it? If so, please tell me how you know.

 

[F.Underwood]

...That's why secondaries and background checks exist, after all- to get more information to judge a candidate.

Actually, background checks are done after conditional acceptance are given out.

 

[F.Underwood]

If the school specifically asked for arrests and convictions and it is not disclosed, and if the government background check reveals non-disclosed information that precludes the issuance of a badge, the school is within its rights to revoke admission.

Hey gyngyn,

Thanks for the input.
Your comment brings up a good question: if one does not disclose dismissed convictions, are schools within rights to revoke admission or scholarships? Please note that the application clearly says that we do not need to disclose.

Thanks

 

[gyngyn]

Actually, background checks are done after conditional acceptance are given out.

Hey gyngyn,

Thanks for the input.
Your comment brings up a good question: if one does not disclose dismissed convictions, are schools within rights to revoke admission or scholarships? Please note that the application clearly says that we do not need to disclose.

Thanks

If they do not ask for disclosure, then you have not been disingenuous. Check to see if your acceptance contract states that you need to be eligible to train in affiliated hospitals to maintain your position in the school. If not, and as long as your offense did not show "moral turpitude" you should be fine.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

If the school specifically asked for arrests and convictions and it is not disclosed, and if the government background check reveals non-disclosed information that precludes the issuance of a badge, the school is within its rights to revoke admission.

This is why many schools whose primary teaching hospitals are government affiliated ask for this information in the secondary. So that an assessment of the risks to the applicant can be made and mitigated, if needed.

First off, that person wouldn't have a conviction, so nothing to worry about there. It would be a clerical error if it said he has a conviction when it was dismissed. Second, I did make it clear that you should list it if an application requires you to list a dismissed conviction or an arrest. This is how rules work. I don't know why you feel it is necessary to judge a (no longer) conviction when the judge herself dismissed the conviction.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Thanks for the response.

So you are basically saying that they cannot revoke conditional acceptances just because they feel like it? If so, please tell me how you know.

Do you have a conviction or not? If it's dismissed, you don't have one. That is the law. What is the school going to kick you out based on? The fact that you followed AMCAS rules? That's grounds for a lawsuit.

 

[gyngyn]

I don't know why you feel it is necessary to judge a (no longer) conviction when the judge herself dismissed the conviction.

The question is asked in the secondary, not for judgement, but in order to prepare for the inevitable fallout at our government facilities when their background check shows the offense. Even expunged and mediated outcomes show up in this type of background check. That's why one might reasonably ask about a history of arrests, charges and convictions without regard to the outcome of the charges.
A government facility makes an independent decision regarding a student's suitability to have a hospital badge. If we know nothing about it, it can delay or preclude the student's ability to participate and thus his education.

If we ask and they do not disclose, then the separate issue of disingenuous behavior is raised.

 

[Mad Jack]

First off, that person wouldn't have a conviction, so nothing to worry about there. It would be a clerical error if it said he has a conviction when it was dismissed. Second, I did make it clear that you should list it if an application requires you to list a dismissed conviction or an arrest. This is how rules work. I don't know why you feel it is necessary to judge a (no longer) conviction when the judge herself dismissed the conviction.

There are certain misdemeanors that can be dismissed from your record after completing certain courses in states. If you do nit fight the misdemeanor and choose to complete the course, it is dismissed but you are presumed to be admitting guilt, just as a person that pays a misdemeanor traffic fine without fighting it is presumed to have been guilty of the offense. What is dismissable depends on state law- some states dismiss minor drug offenses, others violent driving, and a small number of states will even dismiss minor domestic violence misdemeanors after completing anger management courses. What was dismissed and why might absolutely matter for these reasons- dismissal does not necessarily mean a case was dismissed at trial.

Anyway, I'm not an adcom or a lawyer, but I did have a friend that had to fight for his respiratory care license because of a dismissed drug charge, a process that cost nearly a year of his life and thousands of dollars, so I err on the side of caution when I hear about these things. He passed a background check for both the program and to work at the hospitals we rotated at, but failed the federal background check required to issue his license. It was one hell of a mess- he was a good kid that had turned his life around and the system tried to tell him to screw himself despite his hard work.

 

[_drinkcoffee_]

[...] ticketed for a certain misdemeanor and after getting a lawyer it was reduced to a less severe misdemeanor of littering.

Littering AND........ Littering AND........

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

There are certain misdemeanors that can be dismissed from your record after completing certain courses in states. If you do nit fight the misdemeanor and choose to complete the course, it is dismissed but you are presumed to be admitting guilt, just as a person that pays a misdemeanor traffic fine without fighting it is presumed to have been guilty of the offense. What is dismissable depends on state law- some states dismiss minor drug offenses, others violent driving, and a small number of states will even dismiss minor domestic violence misdemeanors after completing anger management courses. What was dismissed and why might absolutely matter for these reasons- dismissal does not necessarily mean a case was dismissed at trial.

Anyway, I'm not an adcom or a lawyer, but I did have a friend that had to fight for his respiratory care license because of a dismissed drug charge, a process that cost nearly a year of his life and thousands of dollars, so I err on the side of caution when I hear about these things. He passed a background check for both the program and to work at the hospitals we rotated at, but failed the federal background check required to issue his license. It was one hell of a mess- he was a good kid that had turned his life around and the system tried to tell him to screw himself despite his hard work.

Your entire point is not relevant because we are not discussing what can be dismissed. The OP says it was dismissed. If that's the case, OP doesn't have a conviction anymore and can truthfully say "no" when asked. If the application says arrests, that's a grey zone. If the application says to list dismissed convictions, OP must list. Tell me, why do you think AMCAS would state NOT to list it if its dismissed if actually you need to list it? It's not logically consistent.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

In order to prepare for the inevitable fallout at our government facilities when their check shows the offense. Even expunged and mediated outcomes show up in this type of background check. That's why one might reasonably ask about a history of arrests, charges and convictions without regard to the outcome.
The government facility makes an independent decision regarding a student's suitability to have a hospital badge. If we know nothing about it, it can delay the student's ability to participate and thus his education.

That's not the point at all. The point is "can OP safely answer no on AMCAS?" The answer to that question is: OP can say "no" if the conviction has been dismissed. It's as simple as that. If some drama happens because of some badge or something is a different issue.

 

[gyngyn]

That's not the point at all. The point is "can OP safely answer no on AMCAS?" The answer to that question is: OP can say "no" if the conviction has been dismissed. It's as simple as that. If some drama happens because of some badge or something is a different issue.

With regard to the primary application, you are correct. However, if the secondary specifically asks about arrests and one fails to be forthcoming, the untoward results I described can be expected.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

With regard to the primary application, you are correct. However, if the secondary specifically asks about arrests and one fails to be forthcoming, the untoward results I described can be expected.

And we would agree on that point.

 

[F.Underwood]

Do you have a conviction or not? If it's dismissed, you don't have one. That is the law. What is the school going to kick you out based on? The fact that you followed AMCAS rules? That's grounds for a lawsuit.

What is the school going to revoke the conditional acceptance on?
My answer: they realize they dont like me after seeing it show up on my background check (which it will). What I do not know is if they have the right to revoke the conditional acceptance just because they feel like it.

And to answer your first question: I have a dismissed conviction.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

What is the school going to revoke the conditional acceptance on?
My answer: they realize they dont like me after seeing it show up on my background check (which it will). What I do not know is if they have the right to revoke the conditional acceptance just because they feel like it.

And to answer your first question: I have a dismissed conviction.

Well, it seems like you know your options. I don't think it makes sense for AMCAS to say not to list it and then schools have a backhand trick. If a school really cares, they will ask in the secondary. I filled out two secondaries that had the wording "include any arrests, expungements or dismissals," yet the majority of secondaries I filled out didn't ask about record at all; so I assume they are okay with AMCAS?

maybe @gyngyn could tell us, if a school can rescind an acceptance, when the student had a dismissed record and the student didn't list it on the primary because they didn't have to?

 

[gyngyn]

maybe @gyngyn could tell us, if a school can rescind an acceptance, when the student had a dismissed record and the student didn't list it on the primary because they didn't have to?

An acceptance can be rescinded if: the secondary asked about any arrests, charges or convictions and one did not disclose, or if the contract with the student explicitly states that the student must be cleared for service in primary teaching hospitals and the hospital will not let the student have a badge due to the nature of the offense.

 

[F.Underwood]

Do you have a conviction or not? If it's dismissed, you don't have one. That is the law. What is the school going to kick you out based on? The fact that you followed AMCAS rules? That's grounds for a lawsuit.

An acceptance can be rescinded if: the secondary asked about any arrests, charges or convictions and one did not disclose, or if the contract with the student explicitly states that the student must be cleared for service in primary teaching hospitals and the hospital will not let the student have a badge due to the nature of the offense.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the detail we are going into!

Just to beat this topic to death, gyngyn: is that "if and only if" ? or just if ?

 

[gyngyn]

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the detail we are going into!

Just to beat this topic to death, gyngyn: is that "if and only if" ? or just if ?

Just if.

 

[cezanne23]

I am in the same boat.

Don't worry, I did order the background check. Patiently waiting. @F.Underwood , wondering if your Certiphi did show the Dismissed conviction.

Also @gyngyn , where can I find this contract? I just got accepted last week, and am biting my fingers on whether or not they'll keep my acceptance.

Thanks for all your help in advance.

 

[F.Underwood]

I am in the same boat.

Don't worry, I did order the background check. Patiently waiting. @F.Underwood , wondering if your Certiphi did show the Dismissed conviction.

Also @gyngyn , where can I find this contract? I just got accepted last week, and am biting my fingers on whether or not they'll keep my acceptance.

Thanks for all your help in advance.

Hey,

I have not ordered Certiphi yet because I am applying this June. I cannot order until I apply.

Cezanne, try to relax. I am confident you will be fine! You have done nothing wrong!
Also, please keep us updated, we would love to know how things go for you!

Best
Khash

 

[cezanne23]

thanks for the kind words F. Underwood!

So I did some digging...
For everyone else that's worried about this (maybe there aren't any)...
Certiphi claims they do show everything, including dismissed cases, but not expunged cases.

That being said, I contacted UCI school of admissions (and a couple other medical schools), but I got to talk to the director of admissions for UCI. She says after the many years she's been there she has yet to see a dismissed case show up.

Will keep you updated on what's on my Certiphi when I get it!

 

[Theeseesit]

An acceptance can be rescinded if: the secondary asked about any arrests, charges or convictions and one did not disclose, or if the contract with the student explicitly states that the student must be cleared for service in primary teaching hospitals and the hospital will not let the student have a badge due to the nature of the offense.

Saved for reference

 

[crossfit4lyfe]

Inbox me, was this a case of doing a class/diversion and the case is dropped once you complete the class? I went through a big thing w the school I was accepted with due to criminal history (that was sealed, and set aside) and ended up consulting a lawyer, so I may have some info for you if you tell me more!

 

[hoihaie]

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong, and that what you describe only applies if you represent yourself as a member of the legal profession. But I'm gonna go ahead and tag @Law2Doc here for an expert opinion.

can definitely name you in a lawsuit, but it would also get tossed out, and might even be countersued for legal fees

 

[hoihaie]

If you're breathing, you can be named in a lawsuit.

Actually, even if you're not breathing.

Or not even a person

 

[Law2Doc]

I'm pretty sure that you're wrong, and that what you describe only applies if you represent yourself as a member of the legal profession. But I'm gonna go ahead and tag @Law2Doc here for an expert opinion.

In general it's a bad idea for lawyers to provide legal advice for free on the Internet. Laws are not uniform in all 50 states. That being said, whether there are grounds for a lawsuit typically depends on whether it's reasonable to believe someone reasonably thinks you are providing legal advice to them personally. Some guy giving advice to a group under a screen name is less likely to have liability than the guy who emails a person directly saying I'm a lawyer and here's my advice. This is basically why I personally never respond to PMs seeking legal advice.

 

[Law2Doc]

can definitely name you in a lawsuit, but it would also get tossed out, and might even be countersued for legal fees

If you falsely name a lawyer in a lawsuit I can guaranty you'll get counter sued for more than just the legal fees. You poke a tiger you probably will get bit.

 

[Gauss44]

OP, it would probably be best to consult a lawyer about this than to ask people on an internet forum.

IMO, it's best to do both.