Dismissed from SGU, re-starting with new Masters and MCAT

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I have contiuously been studying USMLE prep books.

Whatever you decision you make with regards to how you want to pursue life these next couple years, I would not recommend making this a part of them. Pre-studying USLME before medical school, several years before you might get a chance to take it, simply is not a worthwhile investment of time.

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Excuse me but there are PLENTY of reasons people go to non state side schools. It's SDN folks that have it in their heads that the ONLY reason to attend offshore schools is due to lack of academic excellence. Remove that one POV and who wouldn't want to go to a school that's on a island. I've been there for med camp and I know a couple professors who teach stateside and are from there. Your one track mind on how to get in a school is incorrect. If we all thought like you alot of progress in general would never happen. Example, not too long ago being over 30 and starting school masters or otherwise considered taboo. That is all OP, give em hell when you get accepted. The only one who can stop you from trying is yourself. While, no, an incapable person may not be able to achieve the desired outcome; the OP seems more than capable enough to do the work.

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Trying to decide which Lebowski quote works best. The obvious choices have to be either "Donny, you're OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT here" or "You have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into a movie theater and wants to [give SDN advice]".

OP, first rule of SDN is to only consider advice from those who are knowledgeable in the subject matter; i.e those who have experience in med school and beyond, or those that can back up their assertions with sources, as many above have done^. Also, no matter what you decide to do, studying for the USMLE right now is truly a waste of time. If you pull off a miracle and are accepted, anything you had managed to memorize would quickly disintegrate a week into your basic sciences block.
 
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For people asking why I went to Caribbean, honestly I did not know about DO schools. I graduated early from college. I was pretty young when I entered college (I skipped a couple grades). I would say I was a bit immature not researching everything about medical schools before I applied, but I did not think I could get into a US MD school. I did not know what a DO school was, and did not even apply. I went to SGU since I thought it was my only option, and a lot of my friends were looking at Caribbean since they could not get into med schools here. I am a very hardworking student. I know if I got a chance into a med school, I would do well. It's been almost 3 years since my dismissal (I am applying for the 2017-2018 cycle). I am 23 now, and I have contiuously been studying USMLE prep books while in my Biomedical Sciences Masters. I made mistakes when I was younger and irresponsible. Now, I do want to try again. I am prepared for rejection from everywhere. I know it's the real wrold we don't always get second chances. But, I'll do whatever I can to get there.
So you are about 19-20 years old when you started at SGU. That is too young to start med school unless you are a genius. You should have spent more time in undergrad to familiar with hard science first. SGU really mess up your life since they accept you too early. 1-2 more year undergrad would have prepare you better. Did you even have a bachelor before go to SGU?
 
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For people asking why I went to Caribbean, honestly I did not know about DO schools. I graduated early from college. I was pretty young when I entered college (I skipped a couple grades). I would say I was a bit immature not researching everything about medical schools before I applied, but I did not think I could get into a US MD school. I did not know what a DO school was, and did not even apply. I went to SGU since I thought it was my only option, and a lot of my friends were looking at Caribbean since they could not get into med schools here. I am a very hardworking student. I know if I got a chance into a med school, I would do well. It's been almost 3 years since my dismissal (I am applying for the 2017-2018 cycle). I am 23 now, and I have contiuously been studying USMLE prep books while in my Biomedical Sciences Masters. I made mistakes when I was younger and irresponsible. Now, I do want to try again. I am prepared for rejection from everywhere. I know it's the real wrold we don't always get second chances. But, I'll do whatever I can to get there.
Again, you need to talk to some admissions folks at med schools where you plan to apply regarding what, if anything, they would advise you to do to make yourself a reasonably competitive applicant. We can all speculate as to your chances here all we like, but the fact remains that we don't know all the circumstances of your dismissal, and we can't really assess your chances without knowing the full picture. Get some app counseling from some admissions folks at a few DO schools, and see what they say.

But I'd still recommend having a Plan B. I mean, I'm a nontrad with an unusual academic background myself, and because of this, I tend to be more open-minded toward others with unusual academic backgrounds than many of my colleagues. But I still am having a hard time imagining too many scenarios where I'd vote to take a Carib washout over someone else with equally good stats who doesn't have a track record of being dismissed from an offshore med school. Not saying it's 100% impossible. But I think it's fair to say that someone with that track record wouldn't be *any* adcom's top choice.

@Chimichica others have already laid out the reasons why attending a Carib school is a high stakes gamble that often doesn't pay. While there are some students who might reasonably consider attending a Carib school, I would highly recommend that this be viewed as a path of absolute last resort for students who are unable to gain admission to a US MD or DO schools after a minimum of 2-3 honest, full-bore app efforts. Even then, this route is best left to students who are strong test-takers but have academic records that are in such shambles that GPA repair is difficult even after 1-2 years of high-GPA post bac. Since AACOMAS offers grade replacement, this is not going to be an issue for the vast majority of applicants to DO schools, even those who need significant GPA repair prior to applying.

@feeling-dizzy outside of the US and Canada, med schools in most countries matriculate their students straight out of high school, not too dissimilar to the combined BS/MD programs that we have at some schools in this country. The OP's age is not the issue. It's the fact that s/he was academically dismissed from a med school (and even worse, an offshore one).
 
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To respond to @feeling-dizzy yes I did start medical school at 20. I graduated early from college in the US and skipped grades when I was younger. I am enrolled in my masters now (which is not doable without a B.A.) And currently I have emailed some advisors and will probably call them later this week and will keep posting here with updates so that anyone else who is non-trad or facing any dismissal circumstances like me can see this threat and see what is going on and what admissions counselors say.
 
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And currently I have emailed some advisors and will probably call them later this week and will keep posting here with updates so that anyone else who is non-trad or facing any dismissal circumstances like me can see this threat and see what is going on and what admissions counselors say.
Good. Best of luck; I hope you get some positive feedback.
 
It's not about what they want, it's about what a med school adcom will look past. There are lots of people with smaller things in their background than failing out of med school who don't get into med school. It's a very competitive process with limited seats. Look at it like a liver transplant -- does the guy who already destroyed one liver transplant on tequila get another before others?

Yes if he's famous/has the right amount of money, lol!!
 
There's someone in my class who left a medical school abroad (not in Caribbean though, but same idea) and is now an MS1 at an allo states school.

Sounds like someone with a close relative/parent that's also a Doc, there's no limit to what a person with the right connections can accomplish.
 
Excuse me, I am concerned about your original statement where you said you failed 4 terms at SGU when you had life complications and I am wondering how you addressed your repeated failing at that time. It seems inconsistent to me that you wouldn't stop and re-evaluate your approach to find a way to be successful if you are smart enough for those stats. I just feel that unfortunately some burned bridges can't be rebuilt and you are not showing wise judgement now by beating on the same door. I mean to be successful you will have to fully admit ALL the errors in judgment you made, and prove that you are not/will not make poor decisions like that again. You will need quite the impressive new track record of appropriate decisions to overcome that much stupidity. I am not saying this to be mean, but I feel you are still making excuses. If you want to be successful you need to own up and show some more humility! GL but you REALLY should look for other ways to contribute to this world and re-evaluate if medicine is what you want in 5 more years when you have finished overcoming this and grown up.
 
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Excuse me, I am concerned about your original statement where you said you failed 4 terms at SGU when you had life complications and I am wondering how you addressed your repeated failing at that time. It seems inconsistent to me that you wouldn't stop and re-evaluate your approach to find a way to be successful if you are smart enough for those stats. I just feel that unfortunately some burned bridges can't be rebuilt and you are not showing wise judgement now by beating on the same door. I mean to be successful you will have to fully admit ALL the errors in judgment you made, and prove that you are not/will not make poor decisions like that again. You will need quite the impressive new track record of appropriate decisions to overcome that much stupidity. I am not saying this to be mean, but I feel you are still making excuses. If you want to be successful you need to own up and show some more humility! GL but you REALLY should look for other ways to contribute to this world and re-evaluate if medicine is what you want in 5 more years when you have finished overcoming this and grown up.

Just to clarify, I think OP meant that they failed semester #4, not failed 4 semesters. Which pretty much falls in line with the MO of Caribbean schools: fail you out right before clerkships, but not before they've already taken your sweet, sweet cash.

Anyway. Good luck OP. Just want to also chime in and say, pay attention to the titles next to peoples' names. You've got several physicians telling you it's wise to think of a plan B, and a few people peddling hope when there might be none. Don't be one of those people that just comes here and only listens to the people telling you that you can do it.
 
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I am incredibly motivated to play in the NBA. but I'm 5'8". Should I still keep showing up to the Cavs training camp and beg them to take me because I've been working really hard on hitting free throws?
See Muggsy Bogues and Spud Webb. Not impossible.
 
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So, at the end of August 2014, I failed my 4th term at SGU. I tried to go back to SGU, but they said the decision was final. For a year I was picking myself up, I was volunteering at a cardiology department and tried going back to school for a masters or something, no one would take me with a dismissal. This fall, I got into Drexel's Biomedical Sciences program as a non-matriculant, and when I did well they changed me to matriculant. I am now doing research there, and I have a 4.0. I retook my MCAT in the year I was dismissed and earned a 33. I plan on shadowing DO doctors, and am interested in going to osteopathic medical school. I also plan on volunteering abroad. I just want to know if I have a chance at all of getting back into an MD or DO school. I had one bad semester at SGU, and I had issues in my personal life during then. It's not the norm for me. Was it my fault? Yes, but I have always believed in redemption with actions, and I want to know if anyone here knows anything about chances after dismissal if I have redone all these things.
My friend, if anyone deserves another chance it's you. You absolutely cannot afford a misstep in the next couple of years. My advice would be to set up a one-on-one appointment with Drexel's Director of Admissions. Thank them for the opportunity to train in their biomedical sciences program, and state emphatically that you want to know what you need to do to get into Drexel's medical school. Don't be annoying; be candid, direct, and clear about your intentions. It is your best (probably only) shot at a U.S. medical school. Hang your head high. Do not 'apologize' for your past at SGU, don't over-emphasize it, but be ready for a good response when (not if) you're asked about it. I'm an attending sub-specialist at a large university medical center, but I've worked in the community a lot over the last few years. I've seen every caliber of physician out there---local and international M.D. and D.O. graduates with varying levels of motivation, interest, and aptitude who mostly--but not always-- do the right thing by patients. The 'overcomer of odds physicians' are pretty special, and truly tend to work for the patient. Maybe it's because they always remember the privilege of being there. I'll work alongside a doctor with that level of motivation any day of the week and twice on a Sunday. I wish only the best for you.
 
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So, at the end of August 2014, I failed my 4th term at SGU. I tried to go back to SGU, but they said the decision was final. For a year I was picking myself up, I was volunteering at a cardiology department and tried going back to school for a masters or something, no one would take me with a dismissal. This fall, I got into Drexel's Biomedical Sciences program as a non-matriculant, and when I did well they changed me to matriculant. I am now doing research there, and I have a 4.0. I retook my MCAT in the year I was dismissed and earned a 33. I plan on shadowing DO doctors, and am interested in going to osteopathic medical school. I also plan on volunteering abroad. I just want to know if I have a chance at all of getting back into an MD or DO school. I had one bad semester at SGU, and I had issues in my personal life during then. It's not the norm for me. Was it my fault? Yes, but I have always believed in redemption with actions, and I want to know if anyone here knows anything about chances after dismissal if I have redone all these things.

Hi can you update us on how your situation is now?
 
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n=1

My cousin flunked out of SGU and then went to a lesser known Caribbean school and is starting his Anesthesiology residency in July. I don't know how he pulled it off but he's a lucky SOB if you ask me...
 
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I'm sorry about your situation, especially considering you are trying so hard to improve your application and get in again despite your huge mistake. However, whether you like to hear it or not, you made a huge mistake. Medical schools want students that they know will be able to power through medical school and you had your chance and lost it. Several years ago, a friend of mine scored a 42 on his MCAT, started medical school at a top tier school in the US, and eventually dropped out due to health problems/personal struggles. He started graduate school in another field, changed his mind, retook the MCAT and applied to med school everywhere but was rejected everywhere (despite him having a Texas residency advantage).

If you are truly passionate about medicine and helping others, I suggest you start looking at mid-level provider programs. The first one that comes to mind is PA, but Anesthesiologist Assistant (AA) programs are kind of a newer thing, pretty competitive, pay a great salary (if that matters to you), and I believe require an MCAT.

Good luck!

Edit: I should add that you might want to stay away from Caribbean schools now, especially the lesser known ones. Residency spots are harder and harder to get, and they will always favor US grads (that means DO applicants) over Caribbean applicants. To give you an idea, my spouse helped select applicants for a Family Medicine residency program last year (FM is traditionally an "easy" residency to get into, and this program is just a very average program, not even a top tier one), and was told that all Caribbean applicants weren't even looked at. Caribbean schools were a great alternative even just several years ago, but are an extremely dangerous investment now. No point in med school if you can't match for residency. If you do decide to apply to med schools, I suggest DO.
 
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it hasn't been very long. I would think updates more frequently than six month intervals might be a bit optimistic.

Many of her folks in this thread have suggested that the OP meet with the dean of Drexel Medical School, since the OP is already enrolled in Drexel's post-bacc program, to see if they might have a chance there. I think the posters are interested in hearing what the result of that conversation might have been as opposed to any further academic progress the OP might have made.

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Just as a friendly heads up, failing a high risk Caribbean program without any name recognition doesn't just sink you in your career of medicine. It leaves an open hole in your resume which you will need to explain to people when it comes to why you should be considered competent enough to work a job when you've spent year(s) abroad supposedly pursuing your passion and weren't competent to make that experience work out positively.
 
Just as a friendly heads up, failing a high risk Caribbean program without any name recognition doesn't just sink you in your career of medicine. It leaves an open hole in your resume which you will need to explain to people when it comes to why you should be considered competent enough to work a job when you've spent year(s) abroad supposedly pursuing your passion and weren't competent to make that experience work out positively.

But not really. OP is only 23. While this may have significantly diminished their chances of ever practicing medicine, it will have no real impact on their ability to get a 9-5 assuming they have/make connections.

EDIT: And I say this as a 30 year old who opened a restaurant before selling it after a year and a half, taught abroad in China for a couple of years, etc. before getting a corporate job.
 
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So, at the end of August 2014, I failed my 4th term at SGU. I tried to go back to SGU, but they said the decision was final. For a year I was picking myself up, I was volunteering at a cardiology department and tried going back to school for a masters or something, no one would take me with a dismissal. This fall, I got into Drexel's Biomedical Sciences program as a non-matriculant, and when I did well they changed me to matriculant. I am now doing research there, and I have a 4.0. I retook my MCAT in the year I was dismissed and earned a 33. I plan on shadowing DO doctors, and am interested in going to osteopathic medical school. I also plan on volunteering abroad. I just want to know if I have a chance at all of getting back into an MD or DO school. I had one bad semester at SGU, and I had issues in my personal life during then. It's not the norm for me. Was it my fault? Yes, but I have always believed in redemption with actions, and I want to know if anyone here knows anything about chances after dismissal if I have redone all these things.

I went to a Caribbean school after losing faith in my ability to get a competitive score. My first official score was a 481 even though I would get 500+ on practice tests. I interviewed and was then placed into MERP, during which time I was officially diagnosed with general anxiety disorder. I began treatment with medication and all seemed possible. I withdrew from my masters in biomedical sciences with a concentration in molecular medicine and went to Barbados. I failed first semester and then also failed the repeat semester both by a fraction of a point. I couldn’t process why this was happening, but I knew that when I got home that I need to consult my doctor because during my repeat semester the island of Barbados lost power and water for almost a week and you guessed it... during finals week and as a result I was experiencing frequent panic attacks even thought I was taking my meds consistently. I set up an appointment with a psychiatrist and was diagnosed ADD. THIS WAS THE HAPPIEST DAY OF MY LIFE....26yrs old folks. For those who come from African households or are the children of immigrants, your parents either didn’t believe in mental illness or couldn’t afford to get you evaluated. Upon starting treatment with medication, I saw a tremendous change in my overall daily routine, study habits and things I had just accepted about myself. I submitted my appeal to the school for re-instatement because the voices of SDN said that I am considered a red flag and it would be best to finish up at the school because no where else will accept other cases like myself. My appeal was denied, and I am relieved because the school does not care about the students and I was so down on myself I was willing to accept this. I’ve decided to finish my masters in biomedical sciences and retake my mcat. I’ve already been studying and taking practice tests and I KNOW that I am capable especially since I’ve been properly diagnosed and don’t have that as a road block. My fiancé currently attend a DO school and I’m intend to apply there and a few others. Please someone, if you know anyone who has successfully returned to a US school from the Caribbean, I am humbly open to suggestions/insight. I have been scouring the forums of sdn, Reddit,fb looking for follow stories of people who planned to apply to US schools as former Caribbean students who failed. Thank you.
 
I went to a Caribbean school after losing faith in my ability to get a competitive score. My first official score was a 481 even though I would get 500+ on practice tests. I interviewed and was then placed into MERP, during which time I was officially diagnosed with general anxiety disorder. I began treatment with medication and all seemed possible. I withdrew from my masters in biomedical sciences with a concentration in molecular medicine and went to Barbados. I failed first semester and then also failed the repeat semester both by a fraction of a point. I couldn’t process why this was happening, but I knew that when I got home that I need to consult my doctor because during my repeat semester the island of Barbados lost power and water for almost a week and you guessed it... during finals week and as a result I was experiencing frequent panic attacks even thought I was taking my meds consistently. I set up an appointment with a psychiatrist and was diagnosed ADD. THIS WAS THE HAPPIEST DAY OF MY LIFE....26yrs old folks. For those who come from African households or are the children of immigrants, your parents either didn’t believe in mental illness or couldn’t afford to get you evaluated. Upon starting treatment with medication, I saw a tremendous change in my overall daily routine, study habits and things I had just accepted about myself. I submitted my appeal to the school for re-instatement because the voices of SDN said that I am considered a red flag and it would be best to finish up at the school because no where else will accept other cases like myself. My appeal was denied, and I am relieved because the school does not care about the students and I was so down on myself I was willing to accept this. I’ve decided to finish my masters in biomedical sciences and retake my mcat. I’ve already been studying and taking practice tests and I KNOW that I am capable especially since I’ve been properly diagnosed and don’t have that as a road block. My fiancé currently attend a DO school and I’m intend to apply there and a few others. Please someone, if you know anyone who has successfully returned to a US school from the Caribbean, I am humbly open to suggestions/insight. I have been scouring the forums of sdn, Reddit,fb looking for follow stories of people who planned to apply to US schools as former Caribbean students who failed. Thank you.
@Goro is faculty at a DO school. He has had experience with his school admitting students that previously attended a carib school. It’s possible, however improbable given your track record.
 
@Goro is faculty at a DO school. He has had experience with his school admitting students that previously attended a carib school. It’s possible, however improbable given your track record.


Could you please expand on why my track record might make this improbable? We’re the students that were accepted in good academic standing and withdrew for personal reasons?
 
Could you please expand on why my track record might make this improbable? We’re the students that were accepted in good academic standing and withdrew for personal reasons?
Don’t know the deets, but maybe you could throw in some keywords and do a post search with Goro as the poster. (Edit: see Goro’s post above). The reason I say this is because Carib is supposed to be the last resort (3-4 failed cycles MD/DO). In addition, people going to the carib should know that this is it - if you don’t make it, your career is essentially over. You failing out of Carib compounded by your history mental illnesses are both massive red flags. If I was an adcom, and saw that you did not ace your master’s program or scored less than a 508 on your most recent MCAT, I wouldn’t touch your application. You need to prove you have your mental illness under control and that you are not at risk for failing out of medical school or failing the boards. I mean, you already failed out of one. Of course, I have no idea who you are as a person, what your work ethic is, or what you are going through at the moment. I believe you can make it, but from what I have heard, I would say your acceptance is improbable pending a 4.0 masters GPA, 508 MCAT, ECs (clinical, non-clinical volunteering, research, interest in medicine), early application submission, and hella good primary and secondary essays.
 
More like they withdrew for health reasons.

Your plans are sound, but make better choices in the future.

Thank you so much, would you be able to provide further suggestions on how I can revamp myself as an applicant with such a huge red flag?
 
Don’t know the deets, but maybe you could throw in some keywords and do a post search with Goro as the poster. (Edit: see Goro’s post above). The reason I say this is because Carib is supposed to be the last resort (3-4 failed cycles MD/DO). In addition, people going to the carib should know that this is it - if you don’t make it, your career is essentially over. You failing out of Carib compounded by your history mental illnesses are both massive red flags. If I was an adcom, and saw that you did not ace your master’s program or scored less than a 508 on your most recent MCAT, I wouldn’t touch your application. You need to prove you have your mental illness under control and that you are not at risk for failing out of medical school or failing the boards. I mean, you already failed out of one. Of course, I have no idea who you are as a person, what your work ethic is, or what you are going through at the moment. I believe you can make it, but from what I have heard, I would say your acceptance is improbable pending a 4.0 masters GPA, 508 MCAT, ECs (clinical, non-clinical volunteering, research, interest in medicine), early application submission, and hella good primary and secondary essays.


Thank you so much, I truly appreciate the insight. Before I withdrew from my masters I maintained a 3.5 and I was in good standing which is why I’m able to return to it to complete it. I worked as a scribe for over a year and collected 100 hrs of volunteer hours. I plan to re-take my MCAT in April, and I’ve also contacted a few schools to inquire how the adcom might receive me.
 
Thank you so much, I truly appreciate the insight. Before I withdrew from my masters I maintained a 3.5 and I was in good standing which is why I’m able to return to it to complete it. I worked as a scribe for over a year and collected 100 hrs of volunteer hours. I plan to re-take my MCAT in April, and I’ve also contacted a few schools to inquire how the adcom might receive me.
Nice initiative! What did the schools say if you don’t mind me asking? Will be good reference for others in your situation like the OP of this thread who has come and gone.
 
Nice initiative! What did the schools say if you don’t mind me asking? Will be good reference for others in your situation like the OP of this thread who has come and gone.

Thank you! I felt it was best for me to be transparent with my history so I explained my plans and current stats to them. I got mixed reviews, some told me that it would be very difficult for me but they can’t determine how the adcom might see me, other encouraged me to join their masters program as many of their students were able to matriculate into medschool after demonstrating their ability to handle to rigorous course work. But one in particular completely resonated with my struggles as he’s also coping with the same illness. He asked for my information so he reach out to the admissions director for available options an so I’m expecting a call or email with suggestions about how I can proceed. Every school that I’ve contacted told me that they can’t guarantee anything but submitting my application with improved stats will absolutely help. I’m prepared to work hard, and this is because before trying to study or focus felt like running a race 20 miles behind the start line and everyone else.
 
Thank you so much, would you be able to provide further suggestions on how I can revamp myself as an applicant with such a huge red flag?
Shadow > 1 DOs and get LORs from them. One of the things that really pisses off my DO colleague sis that many Carib refugees chose that path because of the MD letters, instead of the DO.

Maintain complete academic excellence from now on as well.
 
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Goro:

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Shadow > 1 DOs and get LORs from them. One of the things that really pisses off my DO colleague sis that many Carib refugees chose that path because of the MD letters, instead of the DO.

Maintain complete academic excellence from now on as well.

My initial choice has always been to become a D.O I live in rural area where many of my providers have mainly been D.Os. My fiancé is 2nd semester student at our state D.O school as we believe our personalities fit with osteopathic medicine. I only chose to go to the Caribbean because I had lost complete faith in myself at the time. After correctly identifying the issue, I refuse to go to another Caribbean school like some of my other counter parts. I’m going to push myself because I now know that I have what it takes despite having a mental illness.
 
My initial choice has always been to become a D.O I live in rural area where many of my providers have mainly been D.Os. My fiancé is 2nd semester student at our state D.O school as we believe our personalities fit with osteopathic medicine. I only chose to go to the Caribbean because I had lost complete faith in myself at the time. After correctly identifying the issue, I refuse to go to another Caribbean school like some of my other counter parts. I’m going to push myself because I now know that I have what it takes despite having a mental illness.
My I PM you? Curious how your path is going. I love how you didn’t give up. I could use advice.
 
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