Dismissed from US medical school, please help!

[silas2642]

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This is exactly why I have hesitated to get a lawyer involved. I don't want to strain the amicable relationship with the dean. But I understand that I must find a way to somehow change the "dismissal" into either a Leave of Absence or Voluntary withdrawal. Both of which need to be explained on any future applications, but they certainly are easier to swallow than an ultimate dismissal. Many of you suggested I find a way to do this. I do not know how susceptible the dean is to changing his mind about his original verdict. I was hoping some of you can have suggestions on how I may go about this.

Okay, so here's your situation-- you were dismissed from a US medical school by a committee. They do not come by this decision lightly; it kind of takes a lot to come to this. To be completely harsh, they don't want you back and the dean made it pretty clear when she told you that she would support you should you decide to attend a Caribbean school; not their school, a Caribbean school.

So you can get a lawyer and see if there was some sort of loophole-- were you unfairly kicked out of med school? Were all the processes followed? Were you discriminated against? Your second option is that you can attend a Caribbean school because the chances that you are going to get into a US school after a prior dismissal are pretty astronomical. Your third option is that you could go to PA school or NP school and actually have a life outside of medicine. Your final option is to forget medicine altogether and live happily ever after.

 

[Perudoc]

My cousin was dismissed from a US medical school. The commitee gave her the bad news but she decided to appeal.
She has done the first two years and alredy pass USMLE step 1, but she had problems in her third year. she has ADD and the school think that she received a lot of help from them but it is not true.
Do you think that she needs to get a lawyer? the school should not kick out so easily a student with ADD.

 

[calbredj]

I think it's been said enough times. dismissal=no more us schools.

Unless you want to risk not disclosing your previous matriculation. Not sure how you could get past residency PDs but hey, if someone out there wants to anonymously boast about their triumph, speak up.

Your best bet is to try to arrange a withdrawl, and then try DO or Caribb. One of the kids from my school was unfairly (or not) kicked out after 2nd year for some (allegedly) PC infraction. Google student sue UMDNJ to find the whole story.

The dean of students was forced to "resign" but the student is never coming back, even if he wins the suit which started last may, the year her would have graduated. he wasted 2 years fighting a lawsuit, that if he wins, still won't reinstate him.

Bottom line try to arrange for a withdrawl and get the most flattering letter possible from your school. If you can't/don't want to go caribbean/international, then either try to cover it up (again, I don't think its possible but I've heard stories) or move to a new careeer. PA, PT, RN. all make decent money and have clinical interaction.

Good luck!

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

As mentioned above in this thread, the answer is no. The only US medical school that is ever realistically going to look at you is likely the one that you got dismissed from -- they are the only one that knows the details, knows you. No other US school is going to touch you if you have been dismissed from another US medical school, even if you have unbelievable MCAT stats. If you couldn't go back to your own school, the logical inference will be that there was a significant reason they didn't want you back. And the process is so competitive that all schools have numerous highly qualified people to choose from for every seat, none of whom will have the kind of black mark you have with your dismissal. So no, nobody else is going to touch you, other than perhaps a caribbean school that accepts anybody with certain stats and a working credit card. Your options are really to sit down with your dean (with or without a lawyer) and beg for another chance, outlining how you have improved and won't have the same issues again, or maybe try to get the "leave of absence" status njbmd was talking about if he won't budge, or else go overseas to wherever you can get in -- you will have a much harder road, but you will have a shot at being a doctor. I see no value in retaking the MCAT or trying to improve undergrad stats -- all those doors closed and became moot when you matriculated to med school. You no longer get to go back and apply fresh. The system doesn't work that way.

As a fellow lawyer, I have to agree with Law2Doc. Applying to US schools is waste of your time. I am not trolling for your business. My advise is to hire a lawyer. If you can show a jury that the decision to dismiss you was "arbitrary and capricious" and you have exhausted your adminsitrative remedies at the school then you could file a civil suit seeking reinstatement based upon beach of contract - either express or implied. How do you show "arbitrary and capricious?" If you find other students in your situation at the school that you attended were allowed to repeat thier first year and there is no real distinction between you and them, then you have a shot at winning.

So forget going elsewhere, talk to a lawyer and re-apply to the school that dismissed you. Make an appointment to talk to the Dean, beg for readmission and politely let him know that a lawyer told you to re-apply and if you are denied re-addisssion a suit will be filled.

Your only other option is offshore.

If you google "Keith Sharick" you will find the story of a 4th year medical student at the school now known as Nova Southeastern Univ. He was kicked out two weeks before graduation in 2003. He sued. The school offered him his D.O. degree and $780,000 to settle. He turned the offer down. A jury awarded him nearly 4 million and it finally was affirmed on appeal in August 2009. So, if you were mistreted there is a remedy but the lawsuit road is a long one. But if you were treated like others who failed two classes then you are out.

Good luck

 

[Perudoc]

So which Caribbean school would you recommend my cousin? She has done the first two years and passed step 1.
She would like to go straight to third year.

 

[cleothecat]

If the school knew cuz had ADD, and if they did not put her on a modified program once they knew cuz was in difficulty, then get legal advice.

Under most country's laws, some sort of reasonable accommodation should have been prior to dismissal.

I hope that there are adequate medical records to support the claim of ADD.

 

[Messi10]

I have ADD and I was dismmised from a US medical school because I failed twice third year. I did pass step 1 in the first attempt.
I applied to transfer to Ross but my application was rejected, so I decided to apply to 4 caribbean schools to start since the first year but again I got rejected from Ross and SABA...still waiting for the others two schools.

I feel frustated, I want to be a doctor and I do not know what to do. Please help.

 

[jasin]

Right on. Getting dismissed from a medical school is a career-ender in some cases. Even if the lawyer isn't free, you should do everything in your power to get a legal consultation - unlike failing college, if you fail out of medical school, you have little to no chance of getting into another one. I for one cannot believe that the dean has the last word on your fate - doesn't something of this magnitude have to go before a committee before they make a decision?

As I said earlier, most school dismiss student if they get caught cheating or convicted of a serious crime. That would be the general impression that all the other medical schools will have of you if you re-apply again. You need to exhaust all your options before you should even reconsider applying again or this will hang over you like a heavy cloud.

Not entirely true.

 

[jasin]

I have ADD and I was dismmised from a US medical school because I failed twice third year. I did pass step 1 in the first attempt.
I applied to transfer to Ross but my application was rejected, so I decided to apply to 4 caribbean schools to start since the first year but again I got rejected from Ross and SABA...still waiting for the others two schools.

I feel frustated, I want to be a doctor and I do not know what to do. Please help.

Have you tried any of the medical schools in Mexico?

 

[jasin]

ADD falls under the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.

 

[pointer2011]

The problem is every case is unique-- there is no cookie cutter formula. It depends on the reason, you, the school, and what you want. Most of the threads are right-- schools are not looking so much at your merit (your MCATs, your scores)... and they may not even be looking at your subjective factors (commitment, emotional maturity)... and legitimately, it may not completely be you.

Consider the schools point of view, even if it isn't fair. They are teachers. They don't want trouble. They probably don't want this happening either b/c it looks bad on them.

A legal route is perilous - generally takes a long time, can be expensive, and doesn't look good on you (even if you're right). Of course, there is always an exception to every rule... but a lawyer CAN help you negotiate with the school. Even if you don't litigate, they can help you talk to the school productively. Try to avoid advertising you're talking to a lawyer.

Work things out with the school. It will take time, but ask different advisers/attendings/professors/deans/administrators to talk. This will be the path of least resistance. For instance, they may advise you to re-apply (which is a good sign). Or they may advise you to apply elsewhere (which may mean they may support you!).

As a general rule of thumb: be as practical as you can. Forget about who's fault it is, and rights and rules. The goal here is the career, not on punishing.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

Good advice. Too bad its way WAY too late to do anything with it. Check the date of the original post.

 

[n618ft]

Very good legal article... a lot of the current precedents were set in the 70s and 80s.


http://pdfs.journals.lww.com/academicmedicine/1985/08000/The_legal_aspects_of_medical_school_admissions_and.2.pdf?token=method|ExpireAbsolute;source|Journals;ttl|1301632147038;payload|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;hash|jRpw5+cBztrhC59Z+/Al2w==

 

[NoMatterWhat]

Consider the schools point of view, even if it isn't fair. They don't want trouble. They probably don't want this happening either b/c it looks bad on them.

Some people wonder why they "encouraged" him to go to foreign schools but not their school, and this exactly is the reason. They don't care about your life. A school, after all, is a business (it wasn't used to be like this, but... well), they care about prestige and money, they don't want anything they see as a potential "trouble".

 

[hotchocolate]

I was dismissed from a US med school. Not for any criminal reasons, not for any severe academic reasons or cheating or drug use, but for "unprofessionalism" - that umbrella term which now encompasses basically anything including "I don't like you." It was the worst experience of my life thus far. I spent a year trying to get reinstated, unsuccessfully. I was told I could reapply and start over, but I didn't want to waste time so I transferred to a Caribbean school. It was the best decision of my life. I was unsure of the outcome of going to a Caribbean school, but I was able to handle the uncertainty. And a change occurred in the way I was treated, I noticed: No longer was I the peon, the lowest on the totem pole to be scrutinized, blamed, rushed, harrassed. I was paying for an education and the school seemed to realize I was not paying to be harrassed, blamed, hurried or scrutinized. I guess this is just how some Caribbean schools need to operate because they feel they have something to prove-- that they can give a decent education and are worth the tuition. I applied for the match this year and got into my chosen specialty with > 15 interviews. Having transferred was definitely the topic of questions during my interviews, but I was surprised at the positive reponses on what had happened to me: some of my interviewers were very sympathetic, commenting that it must have been a traumatic experience, some saying that it takes more courage to go through failures and dust oneself off and try again than to go through life without any failures at all, some saying that the respect people who have stumbled but still make something of themselves instead of quitting altogether. Then there were the very few interviewers who were visibly disturbed by the idea of my having transferred from an American school to a Caribbean school- it seemed like they hadn't looked very carefully at my ERAS application before they had invited me.

I hope that my writing about my experiences will give some hope to people who have gone through the ordeal that is dismissal from medical school, and all the associated misunderstanding, shame and blame, shock and ridiculousness of that experience. Feel free to PM me if needed, I can't divulge too many details of my own experience to protect my identity but hopefully I can at least listen and be of some support.

 

[404958]

I just wanted to add a few more words of wisdom to any other dismissed students:

1) Be wary of the comments on these pages. For that matter, be wary of what you hear from "advisers." People will often give you advice based on probablities or what sounds right. These are guesses. E.g., "schools are not going to consider a student with a dismissal b/c that's a red flag." That's probably true, but not "evidence-based."

2) Be wary of the "tough-enough" mentality. I.e., "if you can't handle medical school, you can't residency. you should get out now." We're all human, and we all make mistakes. Many politicians lost multiple attempts at candidacy. No one in their right mind would say to them, "if you can't handle public office now, you should give up."

 

[Instatewaiter]

2) Be wary of the "tough-enough" mentality. I.e., "if you can't handle medical school, you can't residency. you should get out now." We're all human, and we all make mistakes. Many politicians lost multiple attempts at candidacy. No one in their right mind would say to them, "if you can't handle public office now, you should give up."

Yeah but any politician that totally fu cked up the first time isn't (and probably shouldn't) be given a second chance

If they couldn't handle public office the first time, there is a high likelihood they wont be able to the second time.

 

[mrjbb]

Yeah but any politician that totally fu cked up the first time isn't (and probably shouldn't) be given a second chance

If they couldn't handle public office the first time, there is a high likelihood they wont be able to the second time.

Some individuals distinctively progress due to failure, while others fail never to try again. Everyone is different, not everyone can fail and not give up...but all of us do fail something or someone at one point and time.

I believe it's how you handle failure that makes all the difference.

 

[Instatewaiter]

 

[Orthodoc40]

People who say "or just apply to PA or NP programs" really don't know what they are saying. Few if any of these programs want someone who obviously wanted to be a physician but will 'settle for' their program. There are too many other candidates with it as a 1st choice.

They also want your prereq courses to have happened within a certain number of years. YES, even if the classes that you took the prereqs for have been taken and passed within the last 2 years. It makes no sense, but that's what they say.

 

[sarcasticbunny]

Hello, I'm new to SDN so bear with me please.
I was dismissed this week from a US medical school after completing all of my 1-4th year requirements because I failed step 2CK for the 3rd time. The NMBE website currently has no caps on the amount of times one can attempt each step and announced that in Jan 2012 it's capping it at 6 attempts per step. I've only had 3 and my school is saying they have a 3 strikes policy for step 2. Can they do this? I have finished literally EVERYTHING else and passing 2CS is not a requirement for graduation from this school, just passing 2CK. They are messing with MY LIFE here! I want to appeal but they have no precedent for this and so I have no blueprint. Anybody got some good advice or know a good lawyer in VA who deals with this kind of stuff?

 

[notbobtrustme]

Hello, I'm new to SDN so bear with me please.
I was dismissed this week from a US medical school after completing all of my 1-4th year requirements because I failed step 2CK for the 3rd time. The NMBE website currently has no caps on the amount of times one can attempt each step and announced that in Jan 2012 it's capping it at 6 attempts per step. I've only had 3 and my school is saying they have a 3 strikes policy for step 2. Can they do this? I have finished literally EVERYTHING else and passing 2CS is not a requirement for graduation from this school, just passing 2CK. They are messing with MY LIFE here! I want to appeal but they have no precedent for this and so I have no blueprint. Anybody got some good advice or know a good lawyer in VA who deals with this kind of stuff?

Schools can set a stricter policy than the NMBE.

You might be out of luck unfortunately 🙁

 

[bubblegum123]

Why don't you address your problem in the confidential forum as they may better assist you?
I am presently in the middle of a lawsuit as s reapplicant, and understand your frustration dealing with attorneys. Good luck and hope all works well for you.

 

[Lost4words]

There is hope!

My situation is similar to yours, the difference is mine is at the beginning. I was just recently dismissed from a doctoral level PT program. I may start a trend if I do not see answers to help my situation. 😎

 

[Silent Cool]

Hi everyone, I desperately need some help from those of you who might be familiar with situations like this.

I was dismissed from a US medical school at the end of my first year due to academic reasons, which were a direct result of a divorce and an unfortunate health condition (which is now resolved).

Despite this, I refuse to believe that all doors are now closed. After all, we all do make mistakes, and I surely have learned from mine.

I am VA state resident with hopeful credentials (GPA 3.5, MCAT 32 R).

Does anyone know, or have heard of others being re-accepted after dimissal? I am mostly interested in VA schools, especially EVMS. Anything helps. Thank you all!

Apply DO. Explain your situation. One of them will take you.

Otherwise, EVMS has an SMP program with an excellent linkage rate/history.
Next best option for MD is Rosalind Franklin's BMS program.

g'luck

 

[darklabel]

Apply DO. Explain your situation. One of them will take you.

Otherwise, EVMS has an SMP program with an excellent linkage rate/history.
Next best option for MD is Rosalind Franklin's BMS program.

g'luck

Check the date buddy, this is a pretty ancient thread. Though I wish the guy would come back and fill us in on what he ended up doing..

 

[Silent Cool]

Check the date buddy, this is a pretty ancient thread. Though I wish the guy would come back and fill us in on what he ended up doing..

I know that it's old news. My response still applies. 😀

OP: where are you?

 

[iave9963]

OP: where are you?

+1 Would like to know what ended up happening with OP

 

[DrMom]

Well, they haven't posted in 3 years so I doubt you'll be getting an update.

 

[BouncingBack]

I was a student interviewer a couple of years ago for a guy who was dismissed from a U.S. allopathic school. He had stats strikingly similar to you (but I know for certain you are not this person). He tried for years to be readmitted, taking the MCAT five times in total, and going through SEVEN application cycles. In addition, he did TWO masters degrees after being dismissed, and petitioned to take all the medical school courses he could as well as the shelf exams. He was denied admission to every U.S. allopathic and osteopathic school every year. Interestingly, he did interview at an allopathic and a couple of osteopathic schools every year--with immediate rejections. Personally, I felt that he was richly deserving of a chance. Based on his determination and his performance in his M.S. degrees, he was clearly capable. However, I was overruled. He was told he should have gone to the Caribbean years ago. I think that will be your best option. Good luck, and stick with it.

Wrong! DO schools are more forgiving. I know few that got readmiited to DO Schools. Unless he commited a serious crime or got caught cheating, getting back into DO Schools wont be that difficult with some GREAT letters of rec from the faculty memebers at his previous med school. However, forget about other MD Schools...

 

[advair250]

Wrong! DO schools are more forgiving. I know few that got readmiited to DO Schools. Unless he commited a serious crime or got caught cheating, getting back into DO Schools wont be that difficult with some GREAT letters of rec from the faculty memebers at his previous med school. However, forget about other MD Schools...

n= 1

Medical school is medical school.

 

[BouncingBack]

My cousin was dismissed from a US medical school. The commitee gave her the bad news but she decided to appeal.
She has done the first two years and alredy pass USMLE step 1, but she had problems in her third year. she has ADD and the school think that she received a lot of help from them but it is not true.
Do you think that she needs to get a lawyer? the school should not kick out so easily a student with ADD.

Another one kicked out during clinicals. It is a lot more common than people thinjk!

 

[longislander]

I have ADD and I was dismmised from a US medical school because I failed twice third year. I did pass step 1 in the first attempt.
I applied to transfer to Ross but my application was rejected, so I decided to apply to 4 caribbean schools to start since the first year but again I got rejected from Ross and SABA...still waiting for the others two schools.

I feel frustated, I want to be a doctor and I do not know what to do. Please help.

4 years ago this was an issue - Kevin Mulhearn is a lawyer who is now suing NYCOM on Long Island for violating among other things the Americans With Disabilities Act for expelling students who had disabilities. If the statute of limitations is still open on your case, you should contact him immediately. It is against the law to discriminate against students who have ADHD or ADD. The Yale med student who couldn't get the NBME to give him accommodations was represented by the DOJ and they made a HUGE deal about it. (Funny how Yale wouldn't object to a student with ADHD but a less selective med school would act like you aren't good enough for them. Just sayin.)

 

[BouncingBack]

4 years ago this was an issue - Kevin Mulhearn is a lawyer who is now suing NYCOM on Long Island for violating among other things the Americans With Disabilities Act for expelling students who had disabilities. If the statute of limitations is still open on your case, you should contact him immediately. It is against the law to discriminate against students who have ADHD or ADD. The Yale med student who couldn't get the NBME to give him accommodations was represented by the DOJ and they made a HUGE deal about it. (Funny how Yale wouldn't object to a student with ADHD but a less selective med school would act like you aren't good enough for them. Just sayin.)

interesting

 

[longislander]

I think it's been said enough times. dismissal=no more us schools.

Unless you want to risk not disclosing your previous matriculation. Not sure how you could get past residency PDs but hey, if someone out there wants to anonymously boast about their triumph, speak up.

Your best bet is to try to arrange a withdrawl, and then try DO or Caribb. One of the kids from my school was unfairly (or not) kicked out after 2nd year for some (allegedly) PC infraction. Google student sue UMDNJ to find the whole story.

The dean of students was forced to "resign" but the student is never coming back, even if he wins the suit which started last may, the year her would have graduated. he wasted 2 years fighting a lawsuit, that if he wins, still won't reinstate him.

Bottom line try to arrange for a withdrawl and get the most flattering letter possible from your school. If you can't/don't want to go caribbean/international, then either try to cover it up (again, I don't think its possible but I've heard stories) or move to a new careeer. PA, PT, RN. all make decent money and have clinical interaction.

Good luck!

Did you go to NYCOM? Three deans in 7 years....

 

[cabinbuilder]

I have never heard of anyone getting into another med school after being dismissed from one, but I suppose it's theoretically possible.

There was a guy in my med school class who left an MD program due to illness, divorce, etc. He did other things for 4-5 years and was accepted into our DO program. It's rare but not impossible. He did not fail out however, just had circumstance that he needed to take care of.

There was a girl in my class who did fail out (she failed OMM and ethics due to too much partying). She thought she was untouchable because both of her older brothers were alumni - big mistake. She ended up going to the Carib to finish.

 

[Goro]

I'll chime in to this old thread and add that we have from time to time interviewed people who have matriculated into other medical schools but had to leave. The vast majority left because they were dismissed due to academics. Maybe 1-2 were kicked out for ethics violations, and maybe another handful had to leave for health reasons.

The only ones we accepted were from the last group.

The moral: if you've had your chance once, and couldn't hack it, you're not getting into my school.

There was a guy in my med school class who left an MD program due to illness, divorce, etc. He did other things for 4-5 years and was accepted into our DO program. It's rare but not impossible. He did not fail out however, just had circumstance that he needed to take care of.

There was a girl in my class who did fail out (she failed OMM and ethics due to too much partying). She thought she was untouchable because both of her older brothers were alumni - big mistake. She ended up going to the Carib to finish.

 

[Why Not MD?]

I'll chime in to this old thread and add that we have from time to time interviewed people who have matriculated into other medical schools but had to leave. The vast majority left because they were dismissed due to academics. Maybe 1-2 were kicked out for ethics violations, and maybe another handful had to leave for health reasons.

The only ones we accepted were from the last group.

The moral: if you've had your chance once, and couldn't hack it, you're not getting into my school.

Hi Goro, how would you view an applicant, a U.S. citizen, who first attended a medical school in a foreign country (doing undergrad in the same country), and went through the process (prereqs at a US institution) to apply to a U.S. medical school?

Since AMCAS requires previous medical coursework grades to be input no matter what country, but does not verify them or asks for transcripts, do you think these grades would be an important factor in the decision for the applicant? Or would the more recent US coursework be a much more reliable basis?

 

[Goro]

I'd want to know why the applicant didn't just apply to US schools before matriculating into the foreign school, unless it was one of the common systems used overseas like the 6 year baccalaureate-> MD programs.

Hi Goro, how would you view an applicant, a U.S. citizen, who first attended a medical school in a foreign country (doing undergrad in the same country), and went through the process (prereqs at a US institution) to apply to a U.S. medical school?

Since AMCAS requires previous medical coursework grades to be input no matter what country, but does not verify them or asks for transcripts, do you think these grades would be an important factor in the decision for the applicant? Or would the more recent US coursework be a much more reliable basis?

 

[GolgeeDrinkRocks]

I'll chime in to this old thread and add that we have from time to time interviewed people who have matriculated into other medical schools but had to leave. The vast majority left because they were dismissed due to academics. Maybe 1-2 were kicked out for ethics violations, and maybe another handful had to leave for health reasons.

The only ones we accepted were from the last group.

The moral: if you've had your chance once, and couldn't hack it, you're not getting into my school.

DO schools are more likely to grant another chance, not MD schools. So apply DO.

 

[Goro]

But not to my school.

DO schools are more likely to grant another chance, not MD schools. So apply DO.

 

[Instatewaiter]

4 years ago this was an issue - Kevin Mulhearn is a lawyer who is now suing NYCOM on Long Island for violating among other things the Americans With Disabilities Act for expelling students who had disabilities. If the statute of limitations is still open on your case, you should contact him immediately. It is against the law to discriminate against students who have ADHD or ADD. The Yale med student who couldn't get the NBME to give him accommodations was represented by the DOJ and they made a HUGE deal about it. (Funny how Yale wouldn't object to a student with ADHD but a less selective med school would act like you aren't good enough for them. Just sayin.)

This kind of happy, everyone can do it mentality pisses me off. I personally don't think it is discrimination if you prove you can't hack med school- especially if you were given reasonable accommodations like continuing despite failure of step 1 and third year once. You don't just get a free pass because you are "disabled." For instance, if you are mentally ******ed you don't just get to graduate despite the fact that you can't pass exams or rotations. It is incredibly hard to fail third year courses. Basically if you show up, you get reasonable marks. Passing the shelf is an incredibly low bar to set.

Similarly, if you were born without arms, you can't just become a surgeon because you want to. And if you can't find the academic muster to pass the necessary medical school classes, you shouldn't be a doctor. Sorry. These are very low bars to have someone's life in your hands. Not everyone should be a doctor and it is the med school's job to get dangerous people out of that position.

- Instatewaiter

 

[NandroloneDecanoate]

The rate of such issues (even if you're a rich kid with mom dad covering your bills and no job) in med. school is common. Too bad most schools do not acknowledge and help the kids. I would have psychologists and counselors immediately counsel and continuously follow up for all students in the building. No one gets through without depression, serious anxiety, and really thinking about calling it quits. Ultimately if I had a kid or a loved one, I would counsel him prior and during throughout his stay at med. school. This is from me, the counselor's I would hire, and those who have made it through. The school is there to teach and I understand that. It cannot play mommy daddy and "my big bro" or "my older sis" who will listen to your real life problems.

And yeah, that kid who sued UMDNJ won a $2 million lawsuit.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/03/nj_court_awards_former_student.html

Instatewaiter: How DARE you not be politically correct? In a year or so, NYC is about to change its SAT to accommodate students who perform lower than they should. They are lowering performance standards to help kids who don't study and work as hard as those who do. Unbelievable.

http://nypost.com/2014/03/11/college-board-has-made-sat-even-easier-again/

 

[type12]

The rate of such issues (even if you're a rich kid with mom dad covering your bills and no job) in med. school is common. Too bad most schools do not acknowledge and help the kids. I would have psychologists and counselors immediately counsel and continuously follow up for all students in the building. No one gets through without depression, serious anxiety, and really thinking about calling it quits. Ultimately if I had a kid or a loved one, I would counsel him prior and during throughout his stay at med. school. This is from me, the counselor's I would hire, and those who have made it through. The school is there to teach and I understand that. It cannot play mommy daddy and "my big bro" or "my older sis" who will listen to your real life problems.

And yeah, that kid who sued UMDNJ won a $2 million lawsuit.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/03/nj_court_awards_former_student.html

Instatewaiter: How DARE you not be politically correct? In a year or so, NYC is about to change its SAT to accommodate students who perform lower than they should. They are lowering performance standards to help kids who don't study and work as hard as those who do. Unbelievable.

http://nypost.com/2014/03/11/college-board-has-made-sat-even-easier-again/

UMDNJ was already so corrupt. This is nice: if the school closes, there will be an opportunity for a functional one to open.

 

[Zaynecarrick]

I'll chime in to this old thread and add that we have from time to time interviewed people who have matriculated into other medical schools but had to leave. The vast majority left because they were dismissed due to academics. Maybe 1-2 were kicked out for ethics violations, and maybe another handful had to leave for health reasons.

The only ones we accepted were from the last group.

The moral: if you've had your chance once, and couldn't hack it, you're not getting into my school.

Interesting. I guess I'm currently in the latter group (health reasons) and am re-applying though I'm treating my application more like a very expensive lottery ticket. I wasn't dismissed but I received a leave of absence, which I then turned into a permanent withdrawal (with option to return) for other reasons including health-based. Otherwise, I passed all of my classes, top 5 in most, only failed one class which tied into the health concerns I was having (missed exam, no phone to call school from ER) that I later re-mediated and did well in, plus was active in student council/interest groups/volunteering/etc. Never knew there were others and I was losing hope seeing as my current application is already leagues behind my first time's. Thanks for chiming in.

 

[Optimist100]

.

 

[Zaynecarrick]

I know friends who failed at some institutions and never said on their AMCAS they went to that institution, they just made sure the 2 institutions were not in the same state, there is really no way to find out, it's not like it appears on a background check or something. One of them is MS4 at a great school the other MS2 at a low tier school.

Honesty's the best policy, though it was tempting. In my case, I had glowing LOR's from my professors at the school (most of whom are no longer at the school but I digress). Even then, you'd have to explain what happened during the years at the school. Pretty sure there'd be a way to track seeing as it's all online.

 

[Optimist100]

[QUOTE="Even then, you'd have to explain what happened during the years at the school. Pretty sure there'd be a way to track seeing as it's all online.[/QUOTE]
Just don't say you went to the school, and I doubt any school would publish their failing students online, and grades are confidential anyways.

 

[xffan624]

[QUOTE="Even then, you'd have to explain what happened during the years at the school. Pretty sure there'd be a way to track seeing as it's all online.

Just don't say you went to the school, and I doubt any school would publish their failing students online, and grades are confidential anyways.[/QUOTE]

There's a national clearinghouse of student higher education enrollment, IIRC. It could easily be discovered. Your "friends" will be at risk for the rest of their careers. Schools can rescind degrees for misrepresenting on applications.

 

[Optimist100]

Just don't say you went to the school, and I doubt any school would publish their failing students online, and grades are confidential anyways.

There's a national clearinghouse of student higher education enrollment, IIRC. It could easily be discovered. Your "friends" will be at risk for the rest of their careers. Schools can rescind degrees for misrepresenting on applications.[/QUOTE]
You will be surprised how many people get away with it. I have another friend in dental school that did the same and got in. Never heard of that national clearing house, if they are all fine i guess it doesnt track much.