Dissection

[ylrebmik]

I feel horrible today...

I had my first real dissection this week... five days dissecting a rat and it's different parts, etc. My partner took over so I didn't get to do most of it but she was really offtask today so it was up to me to do the nervous system and we had to make an incision, get the muscle out and crack the skull and examine the different parts of the brain and skull... and I couldn't crack the skull. I don't know if it's just my first dissection or if I suck at life and can't do it and won't get where I want. I know I'm young and I have plenty of time to decide but it decides where I'm going to school... so I'm just wondering if anyone else had the same experiences when they first started dissections or was it like second nature and totally exciting?

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[zpinkpanther]

The first time I dissected, I had no idea what I was doing and it took a while to get used to. We were doing cats and I had a hard time distinguishing between the cutaneous muscle and the muscles underneath it that I was supposed to be identifying. Like anything else, I think it takes a few times to really get into it. We dissected for the whole semester (once a week) and by the end, I felt really confident, almost like I could do it with my eyes closed. Not that I'd recommend it, though- those scalpels are sharp!

 

[RaptorRehaber]

Don't sweat it. Last week I came back to work after being off for two weeks and I'm not sure if it was the fact that it was 8 AM on a saturday (after a night of surly furious consumption) or the fact that I wasn't in the mood but I was really grossed out by having to cut rat vertebrates in half with crappy garden scissors for the eagles.

It's something you have to get used to. I used to feel uncomfortable about dealing with the animals after they were euthanized, but after you have a few animals die in your lap or go through a really traumatic situation and know you're really helping the owner by carrying their rigored out dog to their car, you realize it's part of the job. They are essentially pieces of meat and carbon, don't visualize them as your late pet rat if that bothers you, they are teaching tools to make you a sucessful veterinarian.

Trust me, I'd rather do a million necropies a day then have some poor springer pup unleash explosive diarrhea all over me because the pre-meds didn't agree with its stomach. (But even then, you just have to smile at the poor dog's embarrassed expression, scoop them up and take a collective hose-down in the dog kennel )

 

[lailanni]

I know how you feel, ylrebmik. I did a similar lab with rats - had to crack the skull open too. It was tough. Especially since I really like rats. And when they gave out the rats, they were still warm - they'd just been killed. But I did learn a lot from it.

I felt even worse after we had a lab with chicken embryos - we dissected its heart. While it was still beating. Just to study the heart/nervous system stuff. Yes, I eat eggs - yet it was still disturbing to stop a beating heart.

But I've helped with a few necropsies at the clinic. They were very interesting, educational, and I didn't feel negative about it.

If I can honor the dead animal's life by really learning something of value, then it's not a life taken for no reason. I can use what I learned to benefit other animals -- in the end, that's the reasoning I personally use to feel at peace with those kinds of labs.

Everyone feels different about using animals for research/terminal surgery/dissection. It's a tough one, and we all come to terms with it somehow.

 

[zpinkpanther]

Ah, I just realized that you meant you felt horrible about dissecting as in morally, not as in you felt like you weren't good at it. Sorry, my bad...

I really had a hard time coming to terms with dissecting cats. I used to be more of a dog lover, but recently, between cat-sitting a lot and dealing with cats at work, I think I've come to like cats just as much as dogs, so dissecting one was pretty tough. I basically just told myself that the cat had already died anyway (they were even drained and filled with formaldehyde before we got them) and that dissecting him would just help me become a better vet. Luckily, the cat I dissected was not a torti; I have a weakness for torti's and I'm not sure I could have dissected one. One of our hospital cats at work is basically my cat (she follows me everywhere and we've decided that when I get a place of my own, she has to come home with me), and she's a torti. Anyway, I guess just try to think of it as a learning experience and get as much as you can out of it.

 

[VelcroSky]

It's a little different but when I first started assisting in surgeries with a vet I had some difficulty. The bloodier surgeries were making me a little nauseous and I would feel light headed. It really started to bother me because I was starting to wonder if I was cut out for veterinary medicine. I stuck with it though and now nothing really bothers me. The point is is that you can probably get used to anything if you keep at it. Whether or not you want to get used to it is a question only you can answer, but, personally, I'm glad I did.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

It's totally normal - in fact, most people don't feel like it's "second nature". I remember in high school not being able to crack the ribs of a fetal pig to get into the chest cavity....I just couldn't. My lab partner had to do it. Don't feel like you'll never get the hang of it - I was really worried by first few anatomy labs because I remembered how squeamish I was about the little pig...but later on even I got used to it.

Then in vet school when we dissected horses and cows, which had to be hung from chains and wheeled out on ceiling tracks it was very off-setting at first. Our dissection dog was especially distressing to me at first because it happened to look just like my dog But I took a deep breath, reminded myself that this is not my dog, this is a teaching tool....I got over it.

But after the first couple labs, you get very used to it. It really does become a second nature. After a while it actually DOES become exciting - I never thought I would like anatomic pathology, e.g. "slap a bloody liver on the table and figure out what killed the dog!" but now it is my favorite subject.

 

[david594]

Did a necropsy on golden yesterday. Dog had died suddenly an hour before it was supposed to come in for a "check limp" appointment. Its definitely different than a surgery in that we were trying to expose as much of the internals as possible as opposed to being minimally invasive. Although grabbing the bolt cutters to spread the sternum made it a little unnerving, the sound definitely makes you cringe.

 

[RaptorRehaber]

I did an internship this summer on euthanasia and during the four months, our much loved clinic cat Ibsen needed to be put down. The moment after everyone tearfully said their goodbyes, a doctor, myself and another tech brought him over to an exam table and did a necropsy. It was one of the most bizarre moments of my young career, especially since I had just given him a bath that morning and hours later we were breaking his sternum to get to his heart. We never did find anything conclusive, but there were rumors that he may have had FIP.

Even when you're freaked out or upset, at a certain point, your scientific side takes over and you are able to do just about anything in the name of medicine.

 

[flokemahe]

if it helps you to feel any better:

the first time I dissected a fetal pig (in High School), I threw up.

the first time I saw a slaughter (in undergrad), I passed out - no joke. I was dragged out by a friend to whom I will be eternally grateful (because he also kept me from wonking my head on the cement floor), and I came to in his lap outside.

And after a whole semester of canine anatomy, the smell of the preservatives *still* makes me retch involuntarily. A lot of us cringe doing the more brutal dissections. But when you get into it, it is truly fascinating and awe-inspiring to see how everything fits and works together - there is nothing else that compares, it's really amazing! At least once a week, I have a "wow, so THAT'S what that looks like!" or "that's why that's there" moment.

I think you have to ask yourself whether this is something you feel you want to overcome or not to get to the 'neato' point. It's up to you. I'm sure you know that in vet school, you'll be spending a whole lot of your time dissecting things. Are you willing to do whatever you have to do to overcome your reservations and dive in??

 

[ylrebmik]

Well today I told my partner about my meltdown so she told me that I should try to do it again... and I did it this time! I cracked the skull and got it out. I messed up on the brain because I didn't realize that it was the brain and I cut in into like 12 different pieces but I did it! I was really proud of myself. Hopefully the rest of my meltdowns won't come for a few years to come

 

[RaptorRehaber]

I messed up on the brain because I didn't realize that it was the brain and I cut in into like 12 different pieces but I did it!

That would be quite the awkward conversation had that been an actual patient, haha.

 

[ylrebmik]

That would be quite the awkward conversation had that been an actual patient, haha.

haha yeah. I did really bad... like my partner said it was muscle and we had to tear it open... so I did and all the pieces flug at me... and then I realized that it was the brain. Ohh well...live and learn... hopefully without any more brains touching my mouth..at least it wasn't open. haha.

 

[VAgirl]

and I did it this time! I cracked the skull and got it out. I messed up on the brain because I didn't realize that it was the brain and I cut in into like 12 different pieces but I did it!

Good for you! And don't feel bad. I worked in a pathology lab doing necropsies on a variety of species including rats. It's not easy getting their brains out unscathed! Took me a while to get the hang of it. Meanwhile, at the next station over, the techs who'd been there 15-20 years were extracting the eyes (with plenty of optical nerve attached), removing the skin and muscle from the skull, cracking it, and the whipping the brain out in seriously like 30 seconds.

Oh, and don't even get me started on extracting the pituitary in one piece! Took me forever to get the hang of that maneuver! Of course, I was trying to do all of this at top speed and with perfect tissues...ah the pressure of that lab to produce quickly.

Anyway, so way to go!! And it does get easier!

 

[pressmom]

Don't feel discouraged. My first necropsy was on a small songbird. It was really difficult and I was doing it with a third year vet student! In vet school, you'll learn something new about dissection/surgery everyday. I didn't have that much dissection experience coming in to vet school. (Just a frog and pigeon.) And the bigger the animal gets, the easier it is! We just started on ponies, and the nerves in the brachial plexus were the size of my little finger! So much easier than the dog. (As long as you have some strong people in your group that know how to use a hacksaw!)

 

[critterfixer]

It really does get easier. In undergrad, I dissected a roundworm, a crayfish, a frog, a fetal pig, and a shark. The fetal pig bothered me because it just looked like a perfect little baby pig. I didn't know how I would ever be able to dissect a dog or cat when I got to veterinary school.

At the beginning of last semester, when they brought us our dogs, I felt really, really bad for the dog. He was a young, intact lab mix, and somehow ended up at the shelter (probably the testicles did him in). I realized he was going to be euthanized anyway, and I could at least honor his death by making something useful come out of it. But I admit that it took me several weeks to stop looking at his face and imagining an anguished death (they have their mouths open and look miserable, but it's just gravity that does that). And I proclaimed with absolute certainty that I would not participate in removing his head at the end of the semester (but I did, and it was cool).

I felt like I needed to honor him, so I named him and then I thanked him (silently) every single time I dissected. And it really does become kind of cool after a while. For example, I never knew how absolutely beautiful the Greater Omentum is, but I promise you it is awesome! I did find myself becoming more and more scientific and considering him a dog less and less. Sometimes I question if that is ok, but I believe it is probably necessary to do so in order to learn and not get hung up worrying about the (possible)family who's dog is on the table in the lab.

I did freak myself out a bit when my guinea pig died unexpectedly. I had her for 7 years and loved her so much! But after I got over the shock of seeing her dead in her cage, I had to restrain myself from wanting to open her up to find out what might have killed her.

This semester, we are dissecting horses, as pressmom said. I am finding it slightly grosser, because they stink, but I don't have the same level of attachment I had to our lab dog. Of course, my group did name him at my request. So thank you to Sweeney Todd for his sacrifice. I hope many horses will benefit from his death, as we all learn what we can about these animals in order to become better veterinarians.

And if you were talking about skills instead of moral questioning, just know that I am very, very glad I am not wielding a scalpel over a live animal yet! It is much better for all that I learn anatomy on a dead horse or dog before I ever go near a live animal in a surgery suite.

 

[ylrebmik]

Are a lot of the animals you dissect uthanized (sp) just for research or because of other reasons... In my AP bio class, the class used to dissect cats but the program is getting too big but the teacher said that those cats came differently and they had actually died from diseases and such and the students had to find certain things that were affected by the disease.... but the rats were different...

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

Our dogs cadavers are from shelters. They were due to be euthanized anyway, so I like to think of it as trying to get some good (i.e. helping students learn) out of a bad situation. The large animals are usually donated from clients (in the case of horses and goats) or slaughterhouses (cows and pigs).